518:: I edited it to clean it up, give it a more encyclopedic reading and a NPOV. Like any other article on this site, more references will eventually be added. Just because you don't know about this game, doesn't mean it should be deleted. There are tons of articles on this site that are just snippets or snubs that someone may want to know more information about by searching for it on Knowledge. -
251:- Changing as I'm convinced by CBD's comments below, though a merge may ultimately be best. The article says "Established in October 1991, Elendor is the oldest and most popular Tolkien-based MUSH on the internet." - "most popular" may be overstating it, but "oldest" is definitely notable. On a brief Google search I found the following and I'll add them to the external links:
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fact that it's won an award must be mentioned by reliable sources that can be easily verified. (There may be a chance that it's made up). I've seen articles related to games that get deleted even though it claims to be mentioned by PCGamer, because the "Keepers" can't dig up the exact issue and page number where the mention exists.--
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was 'reasonably authoritative' when they named this the best
Tolkien community site on the web. Obviously you aren't going to find a GameSpot review because they only review commercial games... not free MU*s. The sites which DO review free MU*s rate this as one of the best... but as they don't cover
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Well, it depends on whether a specific notability guideline has been set for "games". But I won't take the official site's word for it. I have a tendency to trust sites like GameSpot, IGN, or any equivalently authoritative website or magazine in a country. Having won an award is important, but the
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where it says "15th anniversary, truly making it one of the longest continually-running games on the
Internet." and "GAME OF THE MONTH" ON MUDMAGIC" and "Elendor was declared the "Best Tolkien Community Site" on the net according to a poll conducted by Yahoo Internet Life magazine!" and "We were
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The links above aren't reliable sources. For instance, the game review isn't made by a reasonably authoritative website like GameSpot. The other 2 appear to be directory links. In fact, that's what I see when I use the search engine, hence reliable sources aren't avail. (And it fails to satisfy
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In such a borderline case, they ought to present a source with a link. Also, they should have at least listed its "Access date" so people may roll back and see for themselves. Had the magazine been on paper, it might have been a different story since a back issue can be ordered to verify
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featured on German and
Austrian television in December 2001". If you are willing to accept that MU* sites should be covered at all by Knowledge, then what standards do you hold them to? Oldest? Most popular? Most notable? How do you measure notability for an
260:. That last one is not the best source, but the other two look OK to me. Some quotes "Founded in 1991, Elendor is the oldest continuously-running Tolkien role-playing game on the internet." and "Elendor is famed as the largest MUSH on the net."
272:- The article needs an 'unreferenced' tag, but being unreferenced does not make something 'original research' or 'non notable'. Look at any list of 'top ten' MU* servers in existence and this one will be on there. It may not be the
235:) be started as the merge destination. This process, although it will take longer, and will involve some work and writing, will be more productive than nominating individual articles for deletion. See
530:: Although the claim of notability (the Yahoo award) is strong, there is still a problem with verifiability. The theonering.net review by "Smaug" does not appear to be staff-written (
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of computer games less notable than this. I'll try to dig up and add some references, but c'mon... must we really go around deleting everything which isn't extensively documented? --
223:(which I just created). Keep the notable ones as separate articles. I would ask the people discussing here to tell us which of the games in that category are notable. See also
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notable MU* in history, but it's close enough that the matter would be subject to debate (personally I'd say that PernMUSH was more significant overall). We have articles on
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The two independent reviews listed under external links now and the Yahoo
Internet Life mention (well, have to believe that of course) are enough to satisfy WP:N. --
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commercial games they apparently aren't 'reasonably authoritative' about the things which they DO cover... that those commercial game sites DON'T. Or something? --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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292:- Call me old, but I pottered in this a long time ago and it weaned me off Hammurabi. cheers.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Have you read the article? It's not a "video game". It is an online roleplaying game.
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into question.) The Mud Magic link is for a directory entry ("trivial" per
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I agree, but in the hope of finding more sources, is any of the stuff in
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533:) so I suppose that makes it a reader-written review (which brings
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12:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)) along with any non-notable content in
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Are you willing to accept what it says on their website? See
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helpful for the more reliable sources Kylohk is looking for?
541:). For the time being, I can give the benefit of the doubt.
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Who was editing other topics before this AfD existed. --
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39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
592:). No further edits should be made to this page.
137:per lack of coverage from independent sources
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231:. I propose that a similar article (maybe
359:Knowledge:Suspected sock puppets/Achidiac
357:) have been blocked as sock puppets. See
558:Note: This debate has been added to the
221:Category:Middle-earth role-playing games
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233:Middle-earth in role-playing games
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237:Knowledge:Article Rescue Squadron
225:Category:Middle-earth video games
193:not notable game and violates.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
149:non notable video game, fails
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560:list of video game deletions
381:17:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
229:Middle-earth in video games
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585:Please do not modify it.
121:, and it's not notable.
32:Please do not modify it.
467:http://www.elendor.net/
442:or in the articles in
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426:Yahoo! Internet Life
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355:contribs
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111:View log
343:), and
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79:history
67:Elendor
59:Elendor
486:Kylohk
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418:Kylohk
409:Delete
198:Oyster
195:WP:NOR
191:Delete
147:Delete
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456:it.--
361:. --
212:Merge
160:Giggy
139:Corpx
105:views
97:watch
93:links
16:<
569:Talk
548:Talk
539:WP:V
516:Keep
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440:MUSH
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227:and
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472:MU*
431:CBD
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109:– (
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