780:, content fork violation. According to our current guidelines, none of these officials were notable prior to this lockout, not notable now, and after all the regular referees comes back from the lockout, they will be heading back to their jobs as high school teachers and so forth and will likely never become notable again. This article simply reads like an attack page showing how unqualified that all these officials are, or the blown calls they associated with so far, which is deservedly mentioned elsewhere without any names being involved.
630:, with caveat that the target page for this merge does not have well-defined rules for inclusion. Given the high percentage of red links, may I assume that the target page has not been well-policed and that many of the red links are non-notable? If so, most of the replacement officials to be merged will also be non-notable and there will be few survivors who actually appear on the target page once the merge is effectuated. Might I suggest to a knowledgeable editor that some standard be stated on the target page for inclusion?
732:
276:? Nevertheless, several sports media and reliable sources are starting to report on the experiences and lives of these replacements -- just the like the regular officials. I do not see a BLP violation in merely repeating what these reliable sources say -- especially if the information can also be found on the NFL's own web site such as the listing of officials in each of their Gamebooks.
218:. This is not a list of notable people (with one exception) and so does not help readers navigate WP, which is supposed to be the purpose of WP lists according to policy. It also has potential negative impact on the people listed, against our BLP policy. The information on the topic of NFL replacements is already well covered in other articles. I don't see a need for this article.
369:), which can just list information --or merely names--, and not necessarily need to be used for navigation purposes. So I'm still unsure how the WP:LIST and WP:BLP fits in if we still keep the names that are currently cited. I have already basically stated that sports figures from professional competitions, including players, owners and referees
991:, this list of several dozen non-notable replacement refs serves no good purpose. List articles ideally should include a group of individuals who are collectively notable and many, if not most, of whom are also individually notable. Clearly, the overwhelming majority of officials on this list are
1054:; however, I am torn with whether it is appropriate to enumerate a list where virtually all the members are not notable. It would be an easier decision for me if most members were notable, and the non-notable were mentioned to complete the list. It seems like an
861:- These men were a part of a historic, albeit short, period in the NFL. History should be recorded, they are no different from a bench player who does not see playing time. They might not be notable, but they were a part of the game which should be recorded.
995:, and to my way of thinking, this list of names of refs who officiated in three NFL games during the lockout is trivia, and not worthy of encyclopedic content. To the extent a handful of these individuals are notable, they may be added to the regular
457:
either in a separate section or interspersed with the appropriate asterisks. The inclusion condition for the main list is (or at least should be) “has officiated an NFL game” without regard to competence, union membership, or pay scale.
179:
272:, etc.) have notability. They are widely reported in the media and other reliable sources. And yes, these articles do suffer from BLP violations from time to time. Is this objection to this one article just because they are
536:. That's basically what they are, as they have all officiated in NFL games. Possibly create a separate section at the bottom of the merge target page to differentiate between these officials and the regular NFL officials
1079:. Dozens of names, only 4 of which have pages. The rest are either unlinked or redlinked. How could this list possibly be considered notable? It's basically just a list of random words. What we need is a
1100:-- per IP 67.248.211.251 or whoever it is -- because figures who have a part in an historic event should have a collective article; past precedent has included the lists of prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay.
1020:. Lists are suitable places to place items that are not notable standing alone but are notable as a group. This would seem to describe the majority of NFL referees, replacement or not. A merge to
52:. Quite a few editors have recommended deletion of this list because the individual members are not notable, but we are actually allowed to have such lists if the group as a whole is notable, per
583:, and maybe also create redirects for all the referees who are currently redlinked to that page as well. I agree with Frank on this one. I disagree with Roy Smith that this is a a violation of
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allows for "Short, complete lists of every item that is verifiably a member of the group", whether or not the individual items are notable. Agreed that the article needs to adhere to
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943:
844:- the replacements have notability to a degree as officials of the NFL. The list is supported by sources and only serves a positive purpose by gathering this important information.
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889:: the comment of the IP user above is the first and only time this user has edited any Knowledge page, article or otherwise, and appears to be a potential sock-puppet.
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A list of non-notable people isn't going to meet notability guidelines for lists. These replacement individuals aren't notable. If you look at a page like
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for the reasons stated by Zzyzzx11 and
Carrite. If this list were to be merged anywhere, the more appropriate target might be to a section of
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249:
560:- we do not have "List of Vice-Presidents of General Motors" which list is equally available and equally of actual avail to Knowledge users.
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These people are being listed in a separate article only due to the unusual circumstances of their employment. They otherwise would appear in
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page (that was just an example, it's on all of them), the template automatically links to the referee's page and it can't be undone. --
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60:, but I saw no clear consensus on this particular point. There wasn't any strong appetite for a merge, either. The arguments based on
151:
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point towards a "keep" close, but due to the significant opposition to keeping the article I am closing as no consensus instead. —
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If we were trying to establish a person's notability it would need to be. But you are right if it's only to put a name on a list.
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replacement player, but the ones who are notable enough for wiki articles. For this list, only the lady ref appears notable. –
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987:. I am striking my previous merge vote, and moving to delete. With the creation of a stand-alone article regarding the
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is a list of which a majority of the entires are blue links. The replacement refs individually are predominantly
493:. The fact that replacement officials are being used is notable. The individual people are (in general) not. --
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If you were to go right now and remove all unsourced material from the article, that would be a good thing.
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759:(i.e. deserve their own article). Otherwise, that might also be a candidate for a merge target as well.—
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I'll concede both points. But also, just because an article currently contains unsourced content, or
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because they have been around since early August and have received widespread coverage since then.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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610:, merging the two list combines parsnips with carrots because they are both vegetables.
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606:- Legitimate list, being definable, limited, sourceable, and functional. Discrete from
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It doesn't need to be a secondary source, it just needs to be verifiable and accurate.
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739:, whether it be as a standalone article or merged into another article (e.g.
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anyway. Theoretically, someone with the time could comb through sources like
56:. The other main reason advanced for deletion was that the page duplicates
927:- The replacement refs may be bad, but we don't need a list of them. –
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argument at this point, and I have no issue with either in this case.—
556:, in which case this could be revisited, I suppose, right now it is a
236:. The current consensus has been that all major league officials (see
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The replacement refs have caused enough controversy to be notable.
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Note: The reason that there are so many red links is that on the
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from USA Today that also list the officials in their box scores.
1141:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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is meant to be a complete list or limited to entries that meet
999:; to the extent any of them are meaningfully relevant to the
678:, but I wouldn't particularly favor that merger either.--
311:) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this
695:- Per reasons stated by Carrite and Zzyzzx11, though a
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In my opinion this article violates the spirit of both
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118:
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and most will likely never have a standalone article.—
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list of
American football-related deletion discussions
186:
944:
list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions
821:List of Major League Baseball replacement players
258:Category:National Basketball Association referees
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1155:). No further edits should be made to this page.
254:List of National Basketball Association referees
552:Unless at least a significant number achieve
343:The NFL itself not being a secondary source.
200:
8:
942:Note: This debate has been included in the
470:Note: This debate has been included in the
970:to cover this; this list is not notable.--
941:
823:, you should note that it's not a list of
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262:Category:National Hockey League officials
735:that a list of them would qualify under
733:news hits on "nfl replacement officials"
558:compendium of employees of a corporation
373:. The article is still also tagged with
1027:as a subsection might be reasonable. -
270:Category:Association football referees
250:Category:Major League Baseball umpires
89:List of 2012 NFL replacement officials
81:List of 2012 NFL replacement officials
246:List of Major League Baseball umpires
7:
242:Category:American football officials
747:). This should not be deleted. Per
1050:and all entries are allowable per
24:
1116:List of Guantanamo Bay detainees
1003:, they may be mentioned there.
651:2012 Jacksonville Jaguars season
743:, unless the article is deemed
703:could also be a consideration.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
956:03:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
935:19:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
920:18:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
877:05:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
854:03:07, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
837:01:56, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
810:22:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
800:and not grounds for deletion.—
785:21:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
769:21:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
724:21:51, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
688:21:35, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
663:20:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
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359:is tagged with lacking sources
353:07:26, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
339:07:19, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
324:02:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
288:07:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
228:06:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
1:
887:Note to closing administrator
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1110:18:51, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
1093:21:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
1072:00:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
1039:00:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
1013:12:47, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
980:11:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
899:13:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
75:01:19, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
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266:List of football referees
1144:Please do not modify it.
1114:One distinction is that
1001:2012 NFL referee lockout
993:not notable individually
989:2012 NFL referee lockout
968:2012 NFL referee lockout
741:2012 NFL referee lockout
701:2012 NFL referee lockout
676:2012 NFL referee lockout
489:. Egregious example of
58:2012 NFL referee lockout
32:Please do not modify it.
966:There is an article at
507:I have no objection to
1022:List of NFL officials
997:List of NFL officials
753:List of NFL officials
608:List of NFL officials
581:List of NFL officials
534:List of NFL officials
455:List of NFL officials
297:Note to closing admin
238:List of NFL officials
1081:List of Random Words
1083:to merge it to. --
757:notability criteria
491:Knowledge:Recentism
751:, it's unclear if
48:The result was
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867:comment added by
731:There are enough
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1085:Captain Infinity
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891:Dirtlawyer1
633:Dirtlawyer1
378:Expand list
371:are notable
174:free images
1025:as a whole
554:notability
476:cobaltcigs
460:cobaltcigs
1149:talk page
972:GrapedApe
948:• Gene93k
916:Strikeout
912:Automatic
745:too large
680:Arxiloxos
585:WP:RECENT
37:talk page
1151:or in a
1120:WP:BLP1E
1048:WP:LISTN
865:unsigned
846:Ducknish
829:Muboshgu
778:WP:BLP1E
737:WP:LISTN
517:RoySmith
495:RoySmith
431:Kitfoxxe
385:this one
345:Kitfoxxe
331:Kitfoxxe
309:contribs
220:Kitfoxxe
133:View log
62:WP:LISTN
54:WP:LISTN
39:or in a
1124:Bagumba
1102:Bearian
1064:Bagumba
1044:Comment
802:Bagumba
794:WP:NPOV
761:Bagumba
729:Comment
612:Carrite
562:Collect
417:Carrite
389:Zzyzx11
301:Zzyzx11
280:Zzyzx11
212:WP:List
180:WP refs
168:scholar
106:protect
101:history
1077:Delete
1052:WP:CSC
985:Delete
964:Delete
925:Delete
817:Delete
790:WP:CSC
782:Secret
774:Delete
749:WP:CSC
550:Delete
520:(talk)
498:(talk)
487:Delete
216:WP:BLP
152:Google
110:delete
708:Zappa
699:into
697:merge
628:Merge
579:with
577:Merge
532:with
530:Merge
509:Merge
195:JSTOR
156:books
140:Stats
127:views
119:watch
115:links
16:<
1128:talk
1106:talk
1098:Keep
1089:talk
1068:talk
1018:Keep
1009:talk
976:talk
952:talk
908:Keep
895:talk
873:talk
859:Keep
850:talk
842:Keep
833:talk
806:talk
765:talk
718:Mati
693:Keep
684:talk
672:Keep
659:talk
637:talk
616:talk
604:Keep
593:talk
566:talk
511:per
435:talk
421:talk
393:talk
349:talk
335:talk
320:talk
305:talk
284:talk
234:Keep
224:talk
214:and
188:FENS
162:news
123:logs
97:talk
93:edit
1058:vs
932:Jay
929:Pee
515:--
474:. ―
313:XfD
202:TWL
131:– (
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381:}}
375:{{
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307:•
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.