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:Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (3rd nomination) - Knowledge

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The problem with a category is that it was decided that most of the individual victims--did not merit separate articles. And the ones that do are having the articles continually challenged. The present article here is minimal attention, and the attempt to delete it represents a viewpoint I neither
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Sure, not every individual on the list is notable enough to have an article. But the group as a whole is notable enough. Lists can be used as "tables of contents" linking to other articles, but they can also perfectly well have entries that don't have (or can't have) an existing article. That's one
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I am definately not trying to impress a view on anyone. I am merely presenting it. You have admitted that most of the individual victims do not merit individual articles - why? because they are not notable enough. A perfectly valid delete reason. The reason that others have stated for keeping the
78: 48:. There are some editors suggested for a merge - so that can be discussed in the article's talk page since deletion is obviously not preferred. However keep in mind that the main article has 68,545 bytes while the list of victims is nearly 40 k long, so article length and size may be an issue. -- 293:; the individuals are not notable on their own. There's a lot of emotion going around, but just because you delete an article about them, doesn't mean you're deleting the victims. Let's be rational, they're NN for wikipedia (Apart from the ones the nom mentioned), and should be merged. 514:
to most appropriate - The event was notable, and on WP that is not inherited. If someone read a list of names to you, would you be able to say "Oh, yeah thoes are the people that died in XXXXX" ? no, because it was the event that they were involved in that was notable. Sorry but
95: 90: 84: 366:. We do not need a list of these unfortunate victims any more than a list of everyone killed in a plane crash or a fire. The shooting, fire, or plane crash may have been significant and notable, but the random victims generally are not. Wrong place, wrong time. 73: 418:
I don't see how this list improves the encyclopedia at all. It appears to serve no purpose other than to memorialize the victims. Nonverifiable means to skip it, but that does not imply that verifiability is sufficient to keep.
184:. It says that Lists can be used as a table of contents. Consensus has said that the majority of the people listed on this page do not need their own articles and therefore I do not see a need for this article, as the existing 123: 118: 127: 110: 378:
with page on Virginia Tech massacre. Or make it a link on that page. The names are important and, though the list is not complete, it does provide further information regarding the event.
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I am proposing to delete this list based on several issues I have with it. Firstly is notability. I do know that among the people on this list there are some notable individuals, such as
150: 168:, however the majority of them are only collectively notable (as was noted in the previous AfD closing comments) and I believe this issue is addressed in the main article under 266:. For one thing, we obviously can't have individual articles for each person. This is a rather tidy way to keep everything contained, though there might be an argument for 582: 570: 548: 528: 500: 476: 443: 423: 410: 393: 370: 354: 342: 326: 310: 297: 281: 258: 238: 225: 212: 56: 481:
Also, I think there is no consensus to keep as DGG suggested. It is currently 11 keeps/7(merge/delete). To me that says that there is no consensus to do anything.
106: 62: 402:, factual, verifiable list of the worst school shooting in American history. People will be interested in this encyclopdic content. Sincerely, -- 432:
share nor understand. It's not reasonable to press what is a not-complete consensus as far as possible--group projects require compromise.
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I would be hesitant to remove this because it has been very well sourced and, for research purposes, very informative/encylopedic.
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article because it is the worst one in America is not good enough because there is no way we need a list of victims of the
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Was previously nominated the day after the massacre and was kept quite convincingly – but there was a lot of emotion imho.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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to mean no writing about "departed friends and relatives". Its not a place to write about your nan or mum. --
541: 319: 271: 177: 173: 169: 578:, better a list than individual articles on all of the victims. Besides, it is verifiable and NPOV. -- 484: 381: 336: 323: 564: 519: 492: 474: 452: 210: 180:
fine. I also want to mention one of the main guidelines (I am aware that it is not policy) at
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Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre, excluding the perpetrator
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (4th nomination)
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Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (2nd nomination)
579: 557: 488: 468: 204: 49: 144: 545: 367: 222: 307: 434: 274:(the length and completeness of the list weighs against that, though). 556:
this article is factual and referenced, content is not a memorial.
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Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
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discussion, but these are not my reasoning for bringing it here.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
456: 350:- well referenced from reliable sources. This is not trivia. 318:
The group itself is collectively notable, and a merge with
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Research? What is there to research in a list of names? --
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of the main advantages of lists over categories. --
39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 600:). No further edits should be made to this page. 334:- well-sourced etc. May serve later purposes. 107:List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre 63:List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre 8: 188:covers the more notable victims adequately. 71: 289:- Into whichever page is appropriate. 178:Virginia Tech massacre#The perpetrator 322:would result in an overlong article. 7: 463:(the worst shooting in Australia). 191:I also have concerns in regards to 69: 24: 174:Virginia Tech massacre#Resistance 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 583:00:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC) 571:02:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC) 549:05:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 529:02:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 501:07:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 477:07:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 444:00:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 424:17:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 411:17:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 394:09:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 371:05:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 355:16:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 343:16:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 327:15:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 320:Virginia Tech massacre#Victims 311:13:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 298:11:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 282:07:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 272:Virginia Tech massacre#Victims 259:05:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 256:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 239:16:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 226:05:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 213:04:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 170:Virginia Tech massacre#Victims 57:23:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 406:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 617: 455:(the worst plane crash), 593:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 542:Virginia Tech massacre 68:AfDs for this article: 457:September 11 victims 291:WP:IS NOT A MEMORIAL 461:Port Arthur victims 527: 526: 503: 487:comment added by 453:Tenerife disaster 396: 384:comment added by 608: 595: 569: 562: 525: 524: 522: 482: 471: 409: 407: 379: 339: 207: 148: 130: 54: 34: 616: 615: 611: 610: 609: 607: 606: 605: 604: 598:deletion review 591: 567: 558: 520: 517:WP:NOT#MEMORIAL 469: 405: 403: 364:WP:NOT#MEMORIAL 337: 252:WP:NOT#MEMORIAL 205: 195:and agree with 193:WP:NOT#MEMORIAL 121: 105: 102: 100: 87: 66: 50: 44:The result was 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 614: 612: 603: 602: 586: 585: 573: 551: 531: 507: 506: 505: 504: 447: 446: 426: 413: 397: 386:217.34.136.250 373: 357: 345: 329: 313: 300: 284: 261: 244: 243: 242: 241: 229: 228: 162:Liviu Librescu 155: 154: 101: 99: 98: 93: 88: 83: 81: 76: 70: 67: 65: 60: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 613: 601: 599: 594: 588: 587: 584: 581: 577: 574: 572: 566: 563: 561: 555: 552: 550: 547: 544:per above. -- 543: 539: 535: 532: 530: 523: 518: 513: 509: 508: 502: 498: 494: 490: 486: 480: 479: 478: 475: 473: 472: 467: 462: 458: 454: 449: 448: 445: 441: 437: 436: 430: 427: 425: 422: 417: 414: 412: 408: 401: 398: 395: 391: 387: 383: 377: 374: 372: 369: 365: 361: 358: 356: 353: 349: 346: 344: 341: 340: 333: 330: 328: 325: 324:Rob T Firefly 321: 317: 314: 312: 309: 304: 301: 299: 296: 292: 288: 285: 283: 280: 277: 273: 269: 265: 262: 260: 257: 253: 249: 246: 245: 240: 237: 233: 232: 231: 230: 227: 224: 220: 217: 216: 215: 214: 211: 209: 208: 203: 198: 194: 189: 187: 183: 179: 175: 171: 167: 166:Seung-Hui Cho 163: 158: 152: 146: 142: 138: 134: 129: 125: 120: 116: 112: 108: 104: 103: 97: 94: 92: 89: 86: 82: 80: 77: 75: 72: 64: 61: 59: 58: 55: 53: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 592: 589: 575: 559: 553: 537: 533: 521:Exit2DOS2000 511: 464: 433: 428: 415: 399: 375: 359: 347: 335: 331: 316:Strong keep. 315: 302: 286: 267: 263: 247: 218: 200: 190: 159: 156: 51: 45: 43: 31: 28: 483:—Preceding 380:—Preceding 276:humblefool 236:Agamemnon2 352:J Milburn 295:Spawn Man 497:contribs 485:unsigned 421:Matchups 382:unsigned 338:Onnaghar 186:category 151:View log 580:Eastlaw 560:ALKIVAR 510:Sadly, 489:Todd661 268:merging 250:I read 182:WP:LIST 124:protect 119:history 52:JForget 546:Ixfd64 416:Delete 368:Edison 360:Delete 223:Fosnez 128:delete 540:with 538:merge 512:Merge 466:..... 376:Merge 287:Merge 270:into 202:..... 145:views 137:watch 133:links 16:< 576:Keep 554:Keep 534:Keep 493:talk 470:Todd 440:talk 429:Keep 400:Keep 390:talk 362:per 348:Keep 332:Keep 308:Itub 303:Keep 264:Keep 248:Keep 219:Keep 206:Todd 197:this 176:and 164:and 141:logs 115:talk 111:edit 46:Keep 536:or 459:or 435:DGG 149:– ( 499:) 495:• 442:) 392:) 172:, 143:| 139:| 135:| 131:| 126:| 122:| 117:| 113:| 568:☢ 565:™ 491:( 438:( 388:( 279:® 153:) 147:) 109:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
JForget
23:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre, excluding the perpetrator
Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (2nd nomination)
Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (3rd nomination)
Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (4th nomination)
List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Liviu Librescu
Seung-Hui Cho
Virginia Tech massacre#Victims
Virginia Tech massacre#Resistance
Virginia Tech massacre#The perpetrator
WP:LIST
category
WP:NOT#MEMORIAL
this

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