Knowledge:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 December 30

2749:: I'm afraid you're getting too far. The NPC has the supreme authority to do whatever it wants for the State, but that's irrelevant to the subject matter here. Practically the Hong Kong and Macao governments are their own administrations in matters such as, the case here, education, whereas the government of the PRC is its own administration, responsible only for the rest of the PRC, i.e. the mainland. In comparison, each of the fifty states of the US, and each of its unincorporated territories, are their own. On the other hand, as from the perspective of constitutional and legal studies, there's no evidence to justify whether or not special administrative regions are administrative divisions. See articles 30 and 31 of the 1982 Constitution of the PRC, and laws such as the Regulations on Special Economic Zones in Guangdong Province (广东省经济特区条例). Both Article 31 and the Regulations aforementioned use the concept of "establish" (设置 or 设立), rather different from Article 30. — 4129:- even in the U.S., there is a difference between colleges (usually 4-year institutions that grant bachelors degrees with a limited subject range) and universities (usually institutions that can grant masters and doctorates in a variety of majors). However, "Institutions of higher learning" is definitely too cumbersome a category, and splitting the category into "Colleges" and "Universities" would confuse most (if not all) editors trying to get things straight. Oakland Community College (2-year), Jamestown State College (4-year), Minot State University (8+ year ), whatever - I think renaming the categories to to 3991:"Universities and colleges" was adopted as a term for transnational articles and categories precisely because of this difference in terminology. Virtually all of the categories that don't already use "universities and colleges"/"colleges and universities" are transnational. I opted not to list the individual country categories because of this (although these are a bit of a mess as well - some are either underpopulated or are using "universities and colleges" in the name when only containing universities). But for the ones transcending countries there needs to be consistency, at the very least in the name ordering. 2711:. From a legal point of view, the SARs of Hong Kong and Macau are entities set up by the Central Government of the PRC, with all of their authority derived from powers vested in them by the Central Government of the PRC, and (legally, though of course not practically) subject at any time to the whims of the PRC. In other words, if the NPC has a particularly evil day and votes 3000-0 to annul the SAR governments, annul the special SAR citizenship of Hong Kong and Macau citizens, and forcibly annex Hong Kong and Macau to Guangdong Province, this would be within the laws of the PRC. 4360:- the technical difference between college and university is relevant but irrelevant to the purpose of the category, anyone looking for the category for research into either will either know the difference or not be entirely distracted by the difference. I believe there are more significant issues with the difference between tertiary, postsecondary and higher education. The blanket change would provide for a much more user-friendly organization and should be coupled with a more critical approach to categorizing subcategories within categories. -- 4200:. I realize now that I made my earlier comment without specifying that it was a vote in favor of the proposal. So, consider this my vote! And just as another comment, this would be incredibly helpful for those of us who devote most of our edits to university and college articles. I can't tell you how many times I hit dead ends trying to remember the exact names of categories, since so few follow the same format. Not only do I think this is a smart change, but it's one I'd personally get some benefit from, so thanks for suggesting it. 866:- First, the word "feminist" may be vaguely interpreted. Second, grouping people based on viewpoint is not necessarily a good idea. Third, it would be more useful to create an article describing feminism in the arts rather than a category listing feminists in the arts; the article would be able to say much more on this issue and would avoid trying to categorize people based on a vague criterion. 4293:- There may be some exceptions that can be handled on a case-by-case basis, but I support having a general naming convention for this. My preference is "colleges and universities", but if there's no consensus, "universities and colleges" is fine too. I think that most related lists use the term "colleges and universities" (see 2718:

policies" as "decided upon" and "declared" by the PRC, which can be argued as nonbinding; and in any case, the PRC can simply argue that new legislation passed by the NPC supersedes the Joint Declaration in time and therefore legal force. Perhaps Margaret Thatcher should have negotiated harder, but history is a done deal.

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Comment regarding categorizing universities and colleges by religion: Some of those categories by religion do seem antiquated. However, because some religious organizations exert substantial control over the governance, curriculum, and other policies of their affiliated institutions, these categories

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These have all been answered 1000 times every time this issue comes up here's the basics: The PRC has 33 political sub-divisions, not three, which this reduces it to. This context of "mainland" reduces the core part of the nation of China to the title of a lesser part of it because of the existence

1421:

But why have an exception? So what if it is more than one movie. Most of these actors have appeared in dozens of films. Letting categories like this survive is just asking for more of them to proliferate, and next thing we know it will be like the TV categories. This can be made into a list if the

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per nom. I grow increasingly baffled as to why EJBanks devotes so much time to creating and sporadically populating categories when fellow Wikipedians turn right around and undo every single thing he has edited. This category is incorrectly capitalized. Category is unclear. What is "national" reality

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films, a possible exception to that rule is when the category covers multiple films in a series. Personally I don't have a strong preference for keeping or deleting, but the fact that the category covers multiple movies simultaneously might make it an exception to the rule against categorizing into

994:

I created this category pretty much by mistake, and it has never been used. I was looking at a character list and one of the categories didn't quite seem to fit so creating this seemed, at the time, to be a good idea. Since then months have gone by and this category has never been used. It is really

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Looking through all the categories, "Universities and colleges" appears to be the most common form (even more so when looking at the "XXX in Country" ones), so I'd recommend renaming all the ones not yet in this form to this name form, except where the category is shown to be university or college

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is fine. Let's all calm down. Let's say we have an edit war, over Category:Universities in the United States. One wants to put Category:Alabaman universities, Category:Alaskan universities, etc. into a category called Category:Universities in the 50 States of the United States, while another wants

4077:: How do you propose to find particular universities from a category that features thousands of them? You'd have to know the particular names then. If that holds than the very idea of having categories becomes redundant. The longer and over burdened lists are already getting a lot of attention. - 3181:

If this category has been made before and deleted but recreated by other poeple that means theres an interest in it and that is precedent for keeping it according to wikipedia policy. A&F models are very notable there are only about 7 of them a year and they ARE NOT CATELOGUE MODELES, A&F

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Yes, this would be grossly against the letter and spirit of the Joint Declarations. However, those are Declarations, not international treaties; even if they were treaties, there is nothing in the declarations about withdrawal from them, nor penalties thereof; the SARs are expressed as the "basic

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a political term? In what way is it biased? Towards whose view is it biased? Do you know the term is what the PRC government itself uses and prefers, and is used by both the governments of Hong Kong and Macau (as well as across the strait by the ROC government)? Meanwhile, please be reminded that

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a category titled Mainland China. The naming scheme has been to have the PRC named category as top-level and any administrative division (provinces, the ARs, the SARS, the municipalities, etc) with their own subcats. Mainland China is not an administrative division, it's a biased political term

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Yes, this will immediately torch off demonstrations, massive international condemnation, declarations of independence etc., and of course such an annullation, passed by a nondemocratic legislature, would be morally indefensible and practically disastrous, but that's another matter altogether

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doesn't have a cateologue, it did for like 5 years and that was it. How would i listify it if it were deleted? well it doesn't matter if its trash media or not and whether you consider CNN or SF Gate to be trash its media and makes it notable.qrc2006/email 23:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

3918:" has multiple meanings around the world, not always country specific. I've nominated all the non-national ones so that a full consensus can be sought. (Adding the national ones would make this list nearly four times longer! Also there are country specific criteria to handle there.) 4056:. A simple alphabetical standard will become a huge obstacle to navigability. Breaking these universities and colleges country by country is fine. One more point: with all due respect, I don't see any reason to categorise universities and colleges by religiosity in this century. - 3784: 3759: 2731:

So in short, you can call HKSAR and MSAR whatever you want, administrative divisions, puppet regimes, feudal duchies, or rubber duckies, but their legal status is dependent on the PRC central government. I suppose that's why Taiwan doesn't trust this entire SAR deal. --

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those state categories to exist in parallel with Category:Puerto Rican universities, etc. Which side is better? Personally, I'd say that the side with the least complications (i.e. the one where the states and territories exist in parallel) is best. --

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feminism is not an opinion, its a political standing, an important one. Anti/Pro war are always mentioned in celebrity articles, anti/pro choice/life for politicians, anti-pro gay rights for religious figures. cmonqrc2006/email 23:32, 30 December 2006

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agree that feminist is as legit of a political stance as any, and can very much influence somebody's art. i do like the idea of keeping it limited to folks who make feminist art instead of artists who consider themselves feminists

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the actors category as we don't do films by actor categories. Mallanox merge suggestion also make sense (except for the actor category). The actor category could become a list. Otherwise, no problem with the rename. --

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is needed, but I see what both sides are saying. Although I'm pretty convinced that neither of them is the best solution (ever)... If I were only given these two choices, mainland China has my vote. I guess that makes me a

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A&F models strikes me as being the same sort of elite fraternity as Victoria's Secret models is a sorority. A&F and in particular the A&F catalogs from a few years back are very notable and controversial.

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The category is very useful in my opinion. However, I agree that "feminists in the arts" would be a better name for the category given some of the people included. If Knowledge does not already have an article on

3085:

Since the Victoria's Secret models category was deleted, that kind of shoots the kneecaps out of my argument. The number is small enough that listing them in the article doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

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just keeps pilin' it on, huh? For the uninitiated, this is another bad category from a persistent and willfully ignorant user. Redundant with all the other "participants" categorized, overly, and perhaps

4155:("Colleges and universities affiliated with Christians", "Colleges and universities affiliated with Mormonism", "Colleges and universities of North Dakota", etc. Therefore my support would be for a 3214:

trivia/overcategorization. This kind of thing is why Cindy Crawford once had over a hundred categories for her one article. Categorizing people by every individual job they ever had is impractical.

3438:

Since when has it not been this page's business to delete categories? Deleting a category does not mean that the material cannot be legitimately covered in another way. If not deleted then rename.

1371:, I would like to counter propose that Alien films be merges with Alien series and the other two catgories be left as they are. I haven't seen any films made by Aliens, I really must get out more. 3844: 703:

Vague and not likely to be used with restraint. Name causes confusion between visual arts, other high arts and entertainment. Most of the categories mentioned above should be deleted as well.

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Yes, this would violate the Basic Laws of HKSAR and MSAR. However, the Basic Laws are pieces of legislation passed by the NPC. The NPC is legally able to rescind legislation passed by itself.

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as an umbrella for the three PRC categories). This will also address the problem that some mainland Chinese universities had ceased operation before the PRC was established in 1949. —

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any of these, just rename. And what I meant by "alphabetical" was to have "College" before "University" as the naming convention for each category name. Hope that clarifies. -

4005:

for the reasons given. If there are any that should not be renamed, simply strike the entry. I looked over the list and did not see any obvious ones that should not be here.

3794: 3714: 2527:: This category covered universities in mainland China, until a few Wikipedians came around and fed the Hong Kong and Macau categories in. This category should be renamed 3403:

It must have been a thrill to see that Knowledge was noticed by the press in the early days, but nowadays it is old hat and tracking these references is a waste of time.

4257:

However you missed this one, Category:Unaccredited institutions of higher learning. Also, the religion of a school is very important if it is a religious school such as

3829: 3724: 3050: 1544: 3769: 3960:. I know how long a nomination like this takes to put on the Working page for the bots, so please drop me a message when closing and I'll produce the list for you. 3719: 3587: 744:

Do not categorize by opinion, which changes anyway. A list can be properly annotated with sources confirming when each person identified him/herself as a feminist.

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I don't even know what the proposed changes are, but some of the ones that currently use "colleges and universities" are fine and so are some of those that don't.

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There are all sorts of shades of opinion and people change their opinions. Putting people into boxes like this is kind of like claiming disputed territory.

3894: 3854: 3694: 3602: 3502: 2240: 1923: 2064: 1758: 968: 3679: 3416: 3975:. In the United States colleges and universities are largely the same thing, but in most other countries most colleges are emphatically and officially 3684: 2394: 1915: 2055: 1750: 959: 260: 2245: 1482: 2499: 1906: 3945:, and I'm only sorry I didn't bring this up earlier myself! Long overdue change, and yes, "universities and colleges" is what we use the most. 1741: 3186: 2236: 2231: 946: 2653:? What do those examples suggest? As for the division issue, where in the constitution or in any law is special administrative regions defined 661: 117: 2532: 2469: 21: 109: 159: 4086:

I think that either I'm misunderstanding you, or that you're misunderstanding the nom, or me. As far as I know, there is no request to

100: 4294: 3914:, currently there's a mixture of "colleges", "universities", "colleges and universities" and "universities and colleges". Note that " 3654: 3226:

we should eliminate all of these or people will start using those we keep as precedents to keep ever more obscure model categories.

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Clicking on a few articles suggests it hasn't been well patrolled up to now, so I decline to trust that it will be in the future.

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used to divide some parts of the country from the rest. (viewing history), the original nomination is correct. XX in/of the PRC.

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is likely due to a male bias here. (And I'm saying that as a totally non-feminist person, I'm nearly an anti-feminist. Still see

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Clothing catalogues are not notable by any stretch of the imagination, even if they have been commented on by the trash media.

1660:

Exactly, those malls deserve to be mentioned in their parent locale, but not their own articles, so no need for this category.

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series of movies. As far as Sam's suggestion to delete the actor's category, I want to mention that while he is correct for

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This was never likely to get far as it isn't even a concrete proposal. Any items of concern can be nominated individually.

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