Knowledge

:Deletion review/Log/2020 October 1 - Knowledge

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is trying to say (sorry I don't speak Extreme Wikilayer yet), is that because WP:N refers to NPEOPLE in the box of the right, NSOLDER becomes an SNG because it is referred in NPEOPLE. By this logic, every essay that is mentioned in any SNG becomes part of the N guideline. Slick as a contract at a
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I think citing it remains valid, despite the ongoing efforts of some editors to claim it isn't. Frankly, given the frequency of its use in AfD discussions and the respect it's given by the majority of editors working in the field, I'm really not sure why it has remained an essay. But yes, you are
311:
This is not the place to relitigate the AfD, but the place to review the close. In this case, the closer did examine and weigh the arguments presented in the discussion regarding the existence of RS showing notability. I believe they also properly weighed the "votes" against the !votes
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With all the discussion that went on, the Keeps failed to produce any sources for the closer to consider and failed to offer convincing arguments for the closer against the Delete rationale. The Keep votes simply lacked evidence/sources and effective arguments for the closer to
374:". The fact is, after over a decade on the encyclopedia and a week at AfD, the only sources were a database entry at an archived website and the perenially unreliable Find-A-Grave. That tells me that, whatever the "rebuttable presumption" may be, it's been rebutted. 319:
Too often AfDs are lazily closed based on presumption, when the presumption has been objected to in the AfD, instead of the closer taking the time to evaluate the arguments and evidence. I appreciate the closer not doing a lazy presumption close
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in view of the SNG being an essay rather than an SNG. I would much prefer to ignore GNG, which I consider troublesome, and rely on SNGs, and would favor overturning if there were an SNG. Can we upgrade the essay to an SNG?
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never came up in the discussion, but this seems to be a case where, while the information is worthy, there isn't enough coverage to support a stand-alone article.
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I think Necrothesp's idea that GNG is not a weightier standard than NSOLDIER is outside the consensus. yes GNG has more weight than a misinterpreted essay.
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Every Knowledge article needs to pass GNG. SNGs are simply a shortcut that presumes that sources exist to satisfy GNG when a topic satisfies the SNG.
366:- people look at the words "rebuttable presumption of notability" and, through some trick of eyesight or psychology, read "permanent exemption from 338:
The reasons why NSOLDIER and ANYBIO are not met are clearly explained (and remain unrefuted) in the AfD discussion, not appropriate to repeat here.
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I don't think this is an SNG. So the close justification is just mistaken. But then again, it's not an SNG, so the close result it right.
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Weighing essays just like SNGs is a problem at AfD and closing AfDs based on votes instead of !votes is a problem at AfD. The closer
39: 168: 433:. Consensus was for a merge and redirect if not deletion. An RfC on spinouts can be held at the redirect target’s talk page. — 532: 244: 200: 21: 549: 504: 97: 17: 477: 459: 538: 508: 490: 463: 442: 425: 404: 387: 350: 273: 250: 224: 86: 412:, although SOLDIER has not had widespread community discussion that I'm aware of, so it's not an SNG. 500: 413: 269: 220: 212: 189:
A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below,
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That would work too. However, given that despite its essay status, SOLDIER is actually listed at
471:
The closer is correct - GNG must be met, regardless of SNGs. I see nothing else being appealed.
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Scottywong, thank you for explaining your close. Doing this (when appropriate) is very helpful.
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I'm still mulling this over, but for an SNG instead of the essay (which SOLDIER is), how about
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the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right.
528:, which doesn't mean "guaranteed". A presumption can be rebutted, and here, it was. 451: 520:
links to it, which I see as an incorporation by reference. Still, the key word in
371: 367: 316:. This is too often lacking in closes and I appreciate the closer doing it here. 203:, it was incumbent upon the closer to take account of those !votes which quoted 181: 396: 78: 375: 176:
This was a clear no consensus result. The closer's rationale is:
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and not suggest that those relying on GNG held more weight. --
154: 140: 132: 124: 260:entirely correct that the MoH also clearly meets 289:: I was a Delete vote, not a Redirect vote, but 450:An article without sources would come close to 522:A topic is presumed to merit an article if ... 8: 96:The following is an archived debate of the 63: 393:Endorse close, overturn closing statement 516:- I think of SOLDIER as an SNG, because 525: 521: 188: 177: 195:Since this article clearly does meet 7: 552:of the page listed in the heading. 28: 548:The above is an archive of the 215:) 23:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 1: 201:Knowledge:Notability (people) 199:, which is listed at the SNG 539:17:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 509:05:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 491:09:50, 7 October 2020 (UTC) 464:17:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC) 443:04:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC) 426:11:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC) 405:07:12, 2 October 2020 (UTC) 388:06:05, 2 October 2020 (UTC) 274:23:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 251:23:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 225:23:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 87:07:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 575: 18:Knowledge:Deletion review 555:Please do not modify it. 356:, 20:34, 1 October 2020‎ 293:was the correct outcome. 103:Please do not modify it. 40:Deletion review archives 331:do this and followed 100:of the page above. 353: 349: 300:I think that what 562: 561: 351: 343: 249: 35:2020 September 30 566: 557: 488: 480: 355: 241: 171: 166: 157: 143: 135: 127: 105: 84: 64: 53: 33: 574: 573: 569: 568: 567: 565: 564: 563: 553: 550:deletion review 501:Robert McClenon 484: 476: 424: 410:Endorse closure 386: 342: 247: 167: 165: 162: 153: 152: 146: 139: 138: 131: 130: 123: 122: 101: 98:deletion review 82: 62: 55: 54: 51: 46: 37: 31: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 572: 570: 560: 559: 544: 543: 542: 541: 511: 493: 466: 445: 428: 420: 407: 390: 380: 360: 359: 358: 357: 339: 336: 325: 321: 317: 309: 306: 295: 294: 279: 278: 277: 276: 243: 180:However, what 174: 173: 163: 150: 144: 136: 128: 120: 114:James F. Adams 108: 107: 92: 91: 90: 89: 71:James F. Adams 61: 59:1 October 2020 56: 49:2020 October 2 47: 38: 30: 29: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 571: 558: 556: 551: 546: 545: 540: 537: 534: 531: 527: 523: 519: 515: 512: 510: 506: 502: 497: 494: 492: 489: 487: 481: 479: 474: 473:SportingFlyer 470: 467: 465: 461: 457: 456:MisterBee1966 453: 449: 446: 444: 440: 436: 432: 429: 427: 423: 419: 415: 414:WP:PAGEDECIDE 411: 408: 406: 402: 398: 394: 391: 389: 385: 384: 379: 378: 373: 369: 365: 362: 361: 354: 347: 340: 337: 334: 330: 326: 322: 318: 315: 310: 307: 305:used car lot. 303: 299: 298: 297: 296: 292: 288: 285:the close by 284: 281: 280: 275: 271: 267: 263: 258: 254: 253: 252: 248: 246: 240: 236: 232: 229: 228: 227: 226: 222: 218: 214: 210: 206: 202: 198: 194: 192: 186: 183: 179: 170: 161: 156: 149: 142: 134: 126: 119: 115: 112: 111: 110: 109: 106: 104: 99: 94: 93: 88: 85: 80: 77: 73: 72: 68: 67: 66: 65: 60: 57: 50: 45: 41: 36: 23: 19: 554: 547: 513: 496:Weak Endorse 495: 483: 475: 468: 447: 430: 409: 392: 382: 376: 363: 328: 290: 282: 242: 230: 190: 184: 175: 102: 95: 75: 69: 58: 44:2020 October 333:WP:CLOSEAFD 314:WP:CLOSEAFD 302:Necrothesp 287:Scottywong 266:Necrothesp 217:Necrothesp 209:Necrothesp 205:WP:SOLDIER 197:WP:SOLDIER 435:SmokeyJoe 324:consider. 262:WP:ANYBIO 235:WP:ANYBIO 187:says is: 526:presumed 418:Hog Farm 291:Redirect 239:Eddie891 185:actually 76:Endorsed 20:‎ | 518:WP:NBIO 514:Endorse 469:Endorse 448:Endorse 431:Endorse 364:Endorse 346:Timothy 329:did not 283:Support 264:#1. -- 257:WP:NBIO 231:Comment 169:restore 133:history 452:WP:OR 422:Bacon 397:Hobit 320:here. 155:watch 148:links 52:: --> 16:< 505:talk 460:talk 439:talk 401:talk 377:Reyk 372:WP:N 370:and 368:WP:V 352:talk 270:talk 245:Work 237:#1? 221:talk 213:talk 182:WP:N 141:logs 125:edit 118:talk 79:Wily 32:< 536:ich 533:v!v 524:is 383:YO! 348::: 344:// 160:XfD 158:) ( 74:– 22:Log 530:Le 507:) 462:) 454:. 441:) 403:) 272:) 223:) 191:or 42:: 503:( 486:C 482:· 478:T 458:( 437:( 399:( 335:. 268:( 219:( 211:( 172:) 164:| 151:| 145:| 137:| 129:| 121:| 116:( 83:D

Index

Knowledge:Deletion review
Log
2020 September 30
Deletion review archives
2020 October
2020 October 2
1 October 2020
James F. Adams
Wily
D
07:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
deletion review
James F. Adams
talk
edit
history
logs
links
watch
XfD
restore
WP:N
WP:SOLDIER
Knowledge:Notability (people)
WP:SOLDIER
Necrothesp
talk
Necrothesp
talk
23:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

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