1317:. The Ali reference is cited to FN 4, not 6. FN 6b is regarding his working for U2 in Dublin and joining their tour as crew. The search link above for the German edition does not show 177, but if you click 178 and then scroll up one page you can see it is there. Likewise, all the details in FN 9a-d is shown to be on page 178. It's really weird and I'm guessing it only seems to be an issue for the McCormick references as all of the page discrepencies you pointed out come from that book?
1405:
book is mainly the author's take based on multiple interviews with the band by (other) music journalists. The de la Parra book is mostly used to source the dates and, as far as I'm aware, he never even met the band. The McCormick citations in that paragraph are undisputably
Primary; but at the same time it is used primarily (heh) to relate the state of emotions felt by the individual band members at the news, and in no other source do they discuss it so candidly. PRIMARY states "
1361:"Just so you know... This view is of the Paperback edition (2009) from It Books. The Hardcover edition (2006) from HarperCollins that you originally viewed is the one you'll receive if you click the Add to Cart button on the left.") I apologise, I didn't expect such seriously fucked up behaviour from a bookseller.
1410:" As there is no analysis or interpretation occurring based on these primary sources and in this paragraph they are almost exclusively used for quotations (the one exception I saw being 9d), I would think that FN 6 and FN 9 meet the acceptable use of "straighforward, descriptive statements". Can you please clarify?
1336:
I am using the London edition (as I noted above). That's why I'm confused as to why the page numbers differ between my copy of the book and what you used to check them. The German pages were linked just to show that the information is there on the pages cited, though using a different language source
1274:
The paragraph "On 3 July 1986..." seems to be largely comprised out of stitched together quotes of PRIMARY sources on a theme; how is this acceptable for encyclopaedic music writing? Where's the secondary source that emphasises the centrality of the Greg
Experience to the creation of one tree hill,
864:'One Tree Hill" was favourably received by critics..." - How about shifting "favourably" to after the word "received"? I know this is not particularly a split infinitive, but moving the adverb reads a bit better. If you decide to, I suggest to do the same in the Release and critical response section.
1444:
I still believe that the use of primary sourcing in the secondary paragraph, used only for quotes which I believe to be an acceptable use per my reading of PRIMARY, is not of any particular concern (especially because in no other source available have the feelings of the band members been discussed
1404:
I'm not really sure how Stokes (FN 5a-f) and de la Parra (FN 8a-d), both of which are (partially) used in the paragraph describing
Carroll's death, constitute primary sources as neither author worked with or on behalf of the band; certainly neither are 'insiders' (as WP:PRIMARY puts it). The Stokes
294:
From memory, none of the sources explicitly state why that connection was made, they simply have a variation of "The song also references Victor Jara..." I'll definitely double check them all for it though once I have a chance to go to the library for the books I rented when crafting a few articles
275:
The paragraph is better now, but I think it still needs an extra sentence indicating why Bono felt inspired to add a lyric referencing a
Chilean resistance hero in his tribute song to Carroll, who has no obvious connection with the Chilean resistance. Was it simply that he was moved by the story of
1504:
I've added a few sources to the first paragraph based on a check of Google Books. I hope this makes it somewhat better. Scrolling through the Google Books pages it looks like
Carroll's inspiration on the song is discussed fairly often; but alas, they are all limited to "Snippet view"! Frustrating!
1312:
That is... really unusual about the page numbers. What are you using to check 4a-d, 6a-c, and 9a-d? I did a quick search on Google Books and, though what came up is the 2006 German hardcover edition (I could not find the 2006 English hardcover edition available for preview, which is what I own and
1218:(I think we probably need to recruit someone who loves doing music-entertainment-popculture spotchecks and someone who loves doing science-medicine-zoology spotchecks; I find both these difficult because they use a different citation culture). I'm a labour historian, not an Irish studies scholar.
225:
Third paragraph of the "Inspiration" section: The reason for including the stuff about Castro and Jara is presumably to explain the inclusion of certain lyrics in the song, but this doesn't become clear unril the end of the paragraph. In my view there is rather too much background detail before
1020:
Hi
Wikipedian Penguin; thanks for your comments (and thank you Dream out loud for addressing some of them in my absence). I probably won't be able to address all of your points for a few days, as I am heading back to Ottawa for my final exam of the term tomorrow morning and will be studying quite
1483:
Oh, okay. That makes it a bit easier. Since I don't have access to my books at the moment I've asked another member of the U2 WikiProject if he would be able to check through his for some corroborating citations. It's getting late here (minutes away from midnight), so I'll try to get to a search
1407:
A primary source may only be used on
Knowledge to make straightforward, descriptive statements that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source ... any interpretation needs a secondary source. Do not analyze,
1448:
Though we disagree on paragraph 2, I concur that the primary sourcing in paragraph 1 is of concern. I don't have my books on me right now (only came home last night, won't go back to my apartment until the New Year; argh!), but I'll try to find some alternate sources for those details and ping
1297:
Similarly I'm rather concerned about the reliance on PRIMARY sources, this is the second time I've done a rock FAC and it seems to be an attempt to connect with authenticity. The problem is: when you compare this to Blonde on Blonde, BoB uses secondary sources for the narrative and then hangs
1298:
primary source quotes and anecdotes "off of" secondary sources that have already established weight and narrative. As lovely as Greg may have been, I find it difficult to consider as encyclopaedic an attempt to write him in when he's not appearing in secondary sources on One Tree Hill.
226:
then, which I found distracting (it seemed temporarily as though I had strayed into another article).. What is missing at this point (though there is a partial explanation later) is why Bono thought the reference to Jara's martyrdom was appropriate to a song dedicated to
Carroll's memory.
1445:
in any detail). As the quotes are "straightforward, descriptive statements" and I am in no way analyzing, synthesizing, interpreting, or evaluating said quotes, I think that their use is fine (save for 9d, which is covered also in the de la Parra source and shall be immediately removed).
700:") are done the same way as this article and had no issues in that regard during the candidacy process. If I'm honest, as someone who is barely literate in music (I can make out time signature and tempo and that is about it), I wouldn't even know how to convert it to Roman numerals (
373:
I admittedly have a habit of overquoting, both on
Knowledge and in my school work, out of an ingrained fear that by not rewording/paraphrasing/etc enough it may be construed as a copyright violation. I tried to reword a bit during the PR and just prior to the nomination. I've
846:"It was released as the fourth single from the album in New Zealand and Australia in March 1988, while "In God's Country" was released as the fourth single in North America." - Could this be re-worded so that the first clause does not have two "in"s very close to eachother?
532:
2 years ago. Said magazine contained old articles from numerous other magazines, as well as fresh reviews on the albums themselves (FN 12 is an example of the fresh review). I'm unsure how to represent the reprinted article in that though, as it was originally published in
323:
element, not the central element, in the song. I think this works better, but if you feel otherwise, please revert. Can I also suggest that you reword "after the hill he saw the first time he visited
Auckland" to "after a hill he remembered from his visit to Auckland"?
179:
Hello everyone. You know the drill by now; I feel the article is at the FAC level, it's been through GAN and PR, etc. But of course, what I think of the article is not as important as what you think of it! I bring you yet another U2 article; this one a single from
342:
I think that shift was absolutely spot-on; the way it was before made it seem as if it was central to the song, rather than just a passing reference. I've also made your suggested tweak, along with a few other minor adjustments. Thanks again for your sharp eyes!
524:
The content is not different, but the publisher id number (PID) is. These can vary from country to country, even when the record label and album contents are identical. The same is true for the singles. Because of the PID I also included the location for
1375:
Oh, no worries at all! I knew something wonky was going on, but didn't have a clue where in the chain of events it was. I'm glad that page discrepency has been resolved; I was beginning to wonder if I'd spaced out and entered the wrong page numbers!
1089:
Wow, I didn't know ellipses needed spaces. You learn something new every day! MOS recommends the non-breaking spaces "only as needed to prevent improper line breaks". I couldn't see any portion where that was an issue and so I have ommitted
927:
Not sure where the March 1988 date came from. Can't find any sources to back that up, so one needs to be found. But when it comes to single release dates, it's sometimes difficult to pinpoint a specific day of the month when it was
869:"with most renditions occurring" - A controversial structure, because of the fused participle and the poor use of the work "with". Try "as most renditions occurred". Similar concern here: "with a sample of The Edge's guitar playing".
1290:
So my concerns are about something really weird with the book citations. Quite frankly I don't understand how you're 50 pages out, and how multiple cites sharing the same footnote number are actually on different pages.
186:. The song was written in memory of a friend of the band, who quite sadly was killed at a very young age. "One Tree Hill" is about his funeral. I hope that you all enjoy the article, and I look forward to your feedback!
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in Reception. Are there any specific quoted parts that you think would do better as regular prose? I'm a bit leery about attempting anything on the religious theme as I admittedly know nothing of the subject.
1337:
to demonstrate this was probably not the best example. I ask again, what are you using to check 4a-d, 6a-c, and 9a-d? I really don't understand how my edition and your spotcheck source differ so wildly.
888:"Colm O'Hare of Hot Press believed The Edge's guitar riff personified the lyric 'run like a river runs to the sea'." - I think there would be a "the" before "Hot Pres", similar to "the Washington Post".
1430:
If the first two paras of inspiration are so essensial, why are they cited to Primaries, if they're not essensial, why are they there. The story has been constructed, and weighted, out of primaries.
222:"On a courier run in the rain, a car pulled in front of him; unable to stop, Carroll crashed into the side and was killed instantly." Needs rephrasing; it was Carroll, not the car, on the courier run.
231:
Finally, I'd echo a concern raised in the peer review, concerning the amount of directly quoted material. I think there is still too much, and that some paraphrase and/or reduction might be in order.
319:
I've tweaked it a little, and shifted the order in the section so that the Jara material comes at the end rather than in the middle of the narrative. That way, it is clear that the Jara lyric is
1021:
hard after I am there! I was unable to find a specific day in March that the single was released. The March 1988 date is found in the liner notes of the 2007 remastered boxset edition of
692:
As far as I am aware the current format is fine. I don't know of any MOS policy saying it has to be written a specific way, and other song FAs I have been the primary contributor to ("
263:, Carroll was killed in a motorcycle accident while on a courier run. In the rain, a car pulled in front of him; unable to stop, Carroll crashed into the side and was killed instantly.
541:. Do you have any advice for that instance? The remainder were obtained from a U2 fan site that reprints the articles without page numbers, and which I cannot link to directly due to
521:
The album booklet (more a short book that was included with the boxset) does not have page numbers inside. I could count them though if that is necessary for that citation template.
833:
I am not fully satisfied with the first two sentences, the first of which is very short. May I suggest putting them together so that we have a more complete thought? How about:
597:
correctly (I don't see any errors cropping up in the Reference section from this change), but it is my first time trying to nest something like this. How does it look to you?
276:
death, albeit in different circumstances, of another young man of principle and promise? This seems to me to be the only thing of importance still missing from the article.
898:
Just nitpicks I know. But this is all I feel is needed to polish this article up to FA standards. Keep up the effort on the articles of one of the best bands of all time. —
518:
I think I have caught and fixed all the em/endash mistakes, but it is something I am unfamiliar with so there may be some hyphens that should be endashes and vice-versa.
617:
Great. My only comment on that would be to be consistent in whether editors are listed first or last name first (actually, looking again, this applies to authors too).
1321:
Fix your reference citation and ISBN. Your bibliography says you're using a (iirc) London edition with a particular ISBN that doesn't relate to the german hardcover.
1095:
I think that addresses all of the points you raised. If there was anything I missed, or something further that comes to your attention, please let me know! Cheers,
856:"The song was a hit in New Zealand" - the body of the article does not seem to say anything about the song being a hit in NZ, only saying that it charted at No. 1.
487:
Are the album notes paginated? Also, not sure the "Canada" is really helpful, unless the Canadian version is different. Applies also to subsequent album citations
1068:
445:
with the changes identified above. I did the GA review of this article and agree with Brianboulton's proposed changes that the article will meet FA standards.
828:- Hello, Melicans. This article is looking great and few people know how to write a song article so well. A few concerns and I'll be happy to give a support:
254:
I've moved the file down to Composition and added a brief description. I didn't include a reference as both events are mentioned numerous times in the prose.
40:
1469:
You don't even need to replace the primary sources, you simply need to demonstrate that the weight and emphasis is that findable in a secondary source.
265:" It might need further tweaking (prose is not my strong point), but I think it does at least clarify that Carroll was on the courier run, not the car.
88:
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6c On another radically different page which conflicts with the page for 6b, agrees with 6a's actual page, but conflicts with the page cited for 6
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MOS suggests that when placing ellipses in quotations, we have spaces on both sides of it, and an nbsp would be placed before the ellipses.
741:
579:
For FN 17, you could use a "Republished from..." with a nested cite template / citation (haven't checked whether you're using templates).
1408:
synthesize, interpret, or evaluate material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.
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someone who does have access to a fair few U2 books so that those primary sources can be replaced with appropriate secondary sources.
1293:
From your style of writing and citing through the McCormick primary source and through the three secondaries I checked you look clear—
670:
as in this line "...chord progression of C–F–B♭–F–C..."? I have seen some FAs and its written in roman numerals, for example in "
138:
1259:
4d Still different pages, and Bono describes it as a "love affair" (in the sense of an intense, limited experience; not pashing)
1086:
I only caught one instance of linking inside quotes and that's now been fixed. If there's any I've missed, please let me know!
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212:: Melicans normally does these song articles well, and this is no exception. Just a few points for action or consideration:-
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The song begins with a highlife-influenced riff by The Edge on guitar, which repeats in the background throughout the song.
728:
Roman numerals are one of several ways to represent chords and chord progressions, but there are other accepted ways. See
1058:
No specific date that we know of; even the band's official material (remastered boxset described above and I believe the
1045:
So sorry for the delay, and thanks very much for your patience. Here are my comments on the points that you brought up:
268:
I've tried to rephrase this also so that it is more coherant. Please let me know if there is more needed on this aspect.
551:
I only saw one instance of inconsistancy regarding the use of publishers for newspapers and that has now been fixed.
697:
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template. It's not a complete sentence because it is written the way it would appear in a release's liner notes.
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You're right, I was probably reading a little too much into that. Thanks for the catch; I've rephrased it to "
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FN 17: pages? Print sources without web links need page numbers in general; there are a few others missing
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893:"All lyrics written by Bono, all music composed by U2." - how about we write this as a complete sentence?
295:
in September/October. Should have a definitive answer for you within the next few days for that point.
217:
A caption to the music sample, explaining what part of the song the sample relates to, would be useful.
403:
You have addressed my concerns, and I'm happy to support now, subject to sources and image clearance.
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1239:**The quote at 4a is in the book, but it isn't at p. 157 in the same ISBN as the one you've cited.
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I have fixed both instances to Live Nation; I think it was a simple spacing error that I missed.
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I'll ask around and see if anyone will be willing to do a spotcheck. Thanks for the reminder!
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In March 1988 it was released as the fourth single from the album in New Zealand and Australia
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Thanks very much for your review (and for the compliment)! I've made the following changes:
964:"All lyrics written by Bono, all music composed by U2." is generated automatically by the
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through my school's online library for appropriate secondary sources tomorrow. Cheers,
837:'One Tree Hill' is a song by rock band U2 and is the ninth track from their 1987 album
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Looks like somebody beat me to the renditions part. Rephrased the sample part to "
841:." This also helps deal with the two consecutive sentences that start with "It..."
776:, but what we have in the article is correct according to the source that I have.
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Yes (at least given the source we have for it). Sheet music from other sources
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FN 17 was a reprinted article in a magazine cobbled together by the editors of
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Spotcheck for accurate representation of sources and close paraphrasing?
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is not necessary because "the" is not part of the journal's title (unlike
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Thank you for the comments. I have struck through two of my queries. —
1275:
why isn't this source front an centre with the quotes hanging off it?
1025:. I will try to get to the rest of your points as soon as I am able.
631:
Thanks, I think that is all taken care of now for the print sources.
496:
Be consistent in whether you provide publishers for newspapers or not
259:
On 3 July 1986, just before the start of the recording sessions for
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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6b Again, and there's no mention of Bono's wife in the copy I read
417:
Thank you very much for the improvements and for your support!
1315:
it confirms that everything cited in FN 4 is there on page 157
851:
Is there a specific day in March 1988 when the song premiered?
1282:**9 not at these page locations with the ISBN you're citing.
1253:
4b This anecdote spans two pages, neither of which you cite
1115:
Supported. I spotcheck would be nice. Great work though! —
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helped me out a great deal in that particular paragraph).
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Featured article candidates/One Tree Hill (song)/archive1
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Live Nation or LiveNation? Check for naming consistency
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potential copyright infringement concerns on their end
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4c And the citations aren't even all on the same page
481:
details - I noticed some spaced emdashes, for example
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Not strictly a sourcing point, but be sure to check
1545:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1232:fns 2, 4, 6, 9, 24, 32 (AGF off the quote) clear
1262:6a Not at that page in the edition you've cited
515:Thank you for the sourcing review, Nikkimaria.
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1551:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
236:I look forward to an eventual full support.
122:
41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
1067:The release charted at number one on the
484:Ranges should consistently use endashes
125:
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1138:Thank you very much for your support!
1055:" which I think reads a little better.
383:Thanks once again for your comments!
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
7:
949:). That would be like saying "the
878:, we do not link inside quotations.
559:Thank you again for your comments!
1295:this page number issue is curious.
24:
1048:Reworded per your recommendation.
754:Is is correctly written then? --
666:Is this how we really right a
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1521:06:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
1500:05:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
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1465:04:37, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
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1207:17:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1183:16:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1154:17:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1134:16:46, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1111:06:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1041:23:42, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
1016:19:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
993:19:23, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
917:00:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
818:03:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
764:15:01, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
746:16:04, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
720:15:47, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
684:12:48, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
613:00:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
589:16:02, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
575:06:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
554:Florida added after Longwood.
509:03:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
472:03:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
455:04:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
399:03:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
334:11:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
311:01:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
286:17:26, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
246:11:49, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
202:22:39, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
172:22:39, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
1313:used for this referencing),
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433:21:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
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1062:book) only says March 1988.
31:featured article nomination
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698:Mothers of the Disappeared
1069:New Zealand singles chart
1548:Please do not modify it.
774:may vary in some details
56:20:56, 22 December 2011
36:Please do not modify it.
694:City of Blinding Lights
462:- spotchecks not done.
525:accuracy/completeness.
257:I've rephrased it to "
1051:I've reworded it to "
376:since done a bit more
931:Adding "the" before
923:Comments on comments
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65:One Tree Hill (song)
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1216:Spotcheck
934:Hot Press
928:released.
876:MOS:QUOTE
447:Lemurbaby
1507:Melicans
1486:Melicans
1471:Fifelfoo
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1076:So done.
1060:U2 by U2
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952:Newsweek
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593:I think
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134:Analysis
50:promoted
1174:Georgia
1125:PENGUIN
1007:PENGUIN
908:PENGUIN
826:Support
696:" and "
672:Hey Ya!
661:Comment
443:Support
207:Support
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
537:, not
479:WP:MOS
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1172:Sandy
1090:them.
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110:views
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