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:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Michael Cole (public relations) - Knowledge

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802:. The fact that we have been deleting articles for unknown individuals at least partly at the request of the subject for a while rather undermines this. No, I don't have a list of articles that have been deleted this way, just as there aren't any lists of articles that have been deleted for any other reason, but searching AfDs for related keywords brings up plenty of examples of places it has been considered. We aren't obliged to grant requests like these. It's entirely at the discretion of the editors involved and there aren't any fixed criteria for it, so you are perfectly entitled to disagree with me, but I don't think we should have an article about this person in this situation. He's sufficiently low profile to be entitled to his privacy. 724:
him out to have had essentially the same career as the version which formerly existed in mainspace. He was a journalist for the BBC for a long time, they sent him to cover current events, he worked for Mohamed Al Fayed, he appeared on a comedy panel show and gave a lecture. None of that makes you a "high profile person". Granted, he passes the GNG, but I don't see how that enters into this. By writing articles about him we are violating his privacy and causing harm to him, and that outweighs the very small loss we suffer by not having an article on him.
847:, undelete, merge, restore to mainspace. I think we are mature and professional enough to handle the slippery slope fallacy. Non-public persons subjected to distress by inaccurate or biased coverage is a good reason to delete something, even if there are sources. Here, we do not have a non-public person, I see no good reason for him or anyone to be concerned by biased coverage, and it is all out there to read, just search for 155:, leaving it in draft space now would cause less harm than restoring it in mainspace. And if we ended up rejecting that, then it would be easy enough to move into mainspace later. What I didn't realize is that when I ran the XfD tool, the discussion it generated would get listed under MfD. I was expecting it to be listed under AfD. So, yes, an accident that it's in MfD. But, no, not an accident that it's still a draft 828:. Sources provided would indicate that the GNG is met (e.g. being the BBC Royal Correspondent, a position that generally confers notability in a public manner). An attempt should be made to contact Mr. Cole to inquire as to what inaccuracies there are in the article, but if that is a dead end, or a search of the available RS do not indicate any reason to question the article content, it should be 415:, not sure why this was relisted given the comments at the DRV. Confused further why it's here at MFD and not AFD which is where the original deletion discussion took place. Regardless: this is a well sourced article about a notable subject, and there is no reason whatsoever to delete a BLP article because the subject of the article asks. That's a slippery slope I strongly urge we NOT go down... — 781:"– two problems: 1) logical fallacy, just because something has been done before doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, and 2) this is my first encounter with an article being deleted like this (due to the subjects request), care to elaborate on just how many articles have met their end this way? Is there a list somewhere? — 492:. I note from the talkpage that this article has been rated as "low importance" by the relevant wikiprojects. I think that is a correct assessment. The coverage of Knowledge is not left with a striking gap if this article continues not to exist. Whilst I accept that the notability of this person is sufficient that Knowledge 723:
the subject asked us to remove our article on him because the available sources contained inaccuracies and as a fairly unknown figure he wanted privacy. We decided to comply with that request, as we're allowed to do. There isn't anything here which justifies altering that decision - the article makes
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applies. Having articles about living people can have a real and significant impact on those people; it can cause harm in ways we may not readily appreciate. It would therefore be callous for us to disregard a BLP subject's request for privacy when there is no appreciable damage to the project if we
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I was also asked on my talk page to clarify what should happen in the event of various scenarios this discussion might evolve towards. It's really difficult to predict the future, so I'll just leave things with the above clarification and trust that whoever comes along and closes this will exercise
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That's not an appropriate comparison. Donald Trump is a very high profile public figure, this guy isn't. Having a few newspaper articles written about you doesn't make you a public figure. Policy does allow us to delete articles about non-public figures at the request of the subject and has for a
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is a shorter article, but from the BBC. And again is solely about the subject of this article. This isn't a "low-notability" individual in any way and his request for the deletion of the article is irrelevant given he is/was such a high-profile person. I honestly don't see how that can be in
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is offended by our article on him and requests that we delete it? On what grounds do we "violate his privacy", but not this individuals? If a subject is notable enough to warrant an article, that's all that is needed. It's unfortunate that the subject of this article felt deletion was the best
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shows, the article subject would strongly prefer that we not include an article about him in Knowledge. I think this is an appropriate case to respect such a wish. I do not think being a royal correspondent for the BBC makes someone a public figure and would say that this person is relatively
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have done was create a draft of your proposed new version of the article and start a discussion proposing recreation. We'd have gotten here a lot faster if you'd done that, instead of just recreating it without regard to
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solution, but that doesn't change the fact that under policy here an article about him is completely appropriate. If someone doesn't want to be written about, the simple solution is to not do anything noteworthy. —
475:). Michael Cole was similarly omnipresent (in the UK) in earlier decades. (Michael Cole was not disputing his notability. He was protesting about unspecified inaccuracies and pleading a case for privacy.) 701: 501: 311:, which is part of the deletion policy, does not take a position on recreation for biographies. Regardless, it is a slippery slope to begin deleting articles because of complaints from their subjects. — 266: 117: 528:) are not deletion criteria. And while a royal correspondent, who appears on BBC national news on a regular basis, is a public figure, the subject passes GNG even without that part of his CV. 99: 95: 128:. I offer no opinion on the outcome. There was a long discussion at the DRV. Rather than trying to summarize it here, I'll just refer folks to the link above to get the background. -- 87: 56:
says "where the subject has requested deletion and there is no rough consensus, may be closed as delete." but in this case the consensus for deleting does not appear to be here.
832:. We should not delete articles of people even borderline notable because of their roles in which they were public figures over vague claims of inaccuracy without evidence.---- 798:
I know that the fact that something has been done before doesn't make it the right thing to do in this situation. The reason I brought that up is your assertion that this is
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Project ratings (applied by one individual editor, not by consensus at a project; not that projects have a stronger voice than the sum of individuals involved, per
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I can't parse what you're even saying. Can you explain this using more words? Also, did you not read the DRV discussion to get the history on this? —
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Yes, I was aware this was a draft, and made a conscious decision to leave it in draft space. My logic there was if we ended up accepting the
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Again, a slippery slope that the project should not even contemplate walking down. Where do we draw the line? What if
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draft, and when it’s ready, ‘’’restore to mainspace’’’. We are doing an AfD on a DRAFT? This is kind of ridiculous.
147:, I see there's some confusion about why this is at MfD vs. Afd. I'll reproduce part of my talk page comments here: 506: 346: 328: 879: 53: 40: 525: 57: 668: 574: 540: 393: 249: 618:
and moving the article into mainspace. Could everyone please try to clarify their !votes wrt that issue?
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below.
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Knowledge:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Discussion_to_reverse_a_BLPDELETE_decision
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and this discussion is intended to test whether a consensus for recreation exists. What you
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's
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I fear that if a BLP is deleted, it is generally not likely to survive as a draft either.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's
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article. Your assertion of what I "should" have done is utterly without basis or merit.
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Folks, it's probably important that when !voting, you distinquish between keeping the
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covers) by an administrator, and thus did not follow the process outlined there.
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It wasn't a comparison, it was a question: where do we draw the line? As for "
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resutlted in "overturned", the issue is moot. The artcle must be restored.
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a slippery slope that the project should not even contemplate walking down
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is a crazy-good source. 99% of our BLPs don't have anything like that.
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an article about him, I do not think that it is so great that Knowledge
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Knowledge:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Cole_(public_relations)
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Michael Cole (public relations)
450:, per Locke Cole and what I said in the previous discussion. -- 267:
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Michael Cole (public relations)
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Michael Cole (public relations)
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deleted, and that deletion was recently overturned at DRV.
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Knowledge:Deletion policy#Deletion of biographies and BLPs
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does not apply. The original article was deleted at
124:Listing here as a purely administrative action per 143:Clarification to my nomination statement. Per a 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 882:). No further edits should be made to this page. 353:, which again takes no position on recreation. — 596:is also a stellar source from what I can see. 303:, it was not summarily deleted (which is what 8: 652:Given that the DRV for the deletion of the 162:good judgement and do the right thing. -- 126:Knowledge:Deletion review/Log/2017 March 14 233:article has never been deleted. It was 558:Clearly notable public figure, passes 377:article was deleted there. It was not 83:Draft:Michael Cole (public relations) 75:Draft:Michael Cole (public relations) 7: 269:. Recreation requires consensus per 48:The result of the discussion was: 588:Keep/allow restoration to mainspace 700:, we are dilberating on reversing 413:Speedy keep, move to article space 24: 18:Knowledge:Miscellany for deletion 762:long time, this is nothing new. 845:Keep (reverse the previous AfD) 263:Michael Cole (public relations) 178:I advertised this at WP:BLPN, 1: 510:comply with their request. 427:07:19, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 52:and move to article space. 902: 861:00:15, 28 March 2017 (UTC) 813:20:49, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 794:17:01, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 773:06:35, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 757:23:10, 26 March 2017 (UTC) 735:14:20, 26 March 2017 (UTC) 714:04:31, 26 March 2017 (UTC) 693:17:10, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 677:14:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 648:14:14, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 610:12:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 583:12:16, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 549:12:16, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 520:11:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 490:Delete/disallow recreation 485:11:17, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 460:07:28, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 442:14:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 402:16:23, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 366:17:01, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 342:03:14, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 324:15:14, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 292:14:43, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 258:14:39, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 226:07:19, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 209:01:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 192:00:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 170:11:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 145:discussion on my talk page 136:14:06, 22 March 2017 (UTC) 500:an article about him. As 69:07:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC) 871:Please do not modify it. 265:was deleted pursuant to 32:Please do not modify it. 505:unknown. Accordingly, 556:Keep in article space 779:this is nothing new 507:WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE 347:WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE 329:WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE 58:CambridgeBayWeather 518: 290: 526:WP:LOCALCONSENSUS 511: 469:Nicholas Witchell 444: 429:Clarifying keep — 283: 120: 893: 873: 849:michael cole bbc 808: 768: 730: 690: 675: 666: 662: 637: 581: 572: 568: 547: 538: 534: 428: 400: 391: 387: 256: 247: 243: 115: 112: 111: 34: 901: 900: 896: 895: 894: 892: 891: 890: 886: 880:deletion review 869: 841: 806: 766: 728: 688: 664: 658: 657: 619: 570: 564: 563: 536: 530: 529: 389: 383: 382: 340: 245: 239: 238: 85: 81: 78: 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 899: 897: 888: 885: 884: 864: 863: 842: 837: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 816: 815: 718: 717: 716: 698:User:Montanabw 681: 680: 679: 612: 585: 553: 552: 551: 487: 462: 445: 410: 409: 408: 407: 406: 405: 404: 372: 371: 370: 369: 368: 336: 228: 194: 175: 174: 173: 172: 159: 158: 157: 122: 121: 116:Previous AfD: 113: 77: 72: 62:Uqaqtuq (talk) 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 898: 889: 883: 881: 877: 872: 866: 865: 862: 858: 854: 850: 846: 843: 840: 839:contributions 835: 831: 827: 824: 814: 811: 810: 809: 801: 797: 796: 795: 792: 788: 784: 780: 776: 775: 774: 771: 770: 769: 760: 759: 758: 755: 751: 747: 742: 738: 737: 736: 733: 732: 731: 722: 719: 715: 711: 707: 703: 699: 696: 695: 694: 691: 685: 682: 678: 674: 670: 665:Pigsonthewing 661: 655: 651: 650: 649: 645: 641: 635: 631: 630:Pigsonthewing 627: 623: 617: 613: 611: 607: 603: 598: 595: 592: 589: 586: 584: 580: 576: 571:Pigsonthewing 567: 561: 557: 554: 550: 546: 542: 537:Pigsonthewing 533: 527: 523: 522: 521: 517: 514: 508: 503: 499: 495: 491: 488: 486: 482: 478: 474: 470: 466: 463: 461: 457: 453: 449: 446: 443: 440: 436: 432: 426: 422: 418: 414: 411: 403: 399: 395: 390:Pigsonthewing 386: 380: 376: 373: 367: 364: 360: 356: 352: 348: 345: 344: 343: 339: 338:contributions 334: 330: 327: 326: 325: 322: 318: 314: 310: 306: 302: 298: 295: 294: 293: 289: 286: 281: 276: 272: 268: 264: 261: 260: 259: 255: 251: 246:Pigsonthewing 242: 236: 232: 229: 227: 224: 220: 216: 212: 211: 210: 206: 202: 198: 195: 193: 189: 185: 181: 177: 176: 171: 168: 165: 160: 156: 154: 149: 148: 146: 142: 141: 140: 139: 138: 137: 134: 131: 127: 119: 114: 109: 105: 101: 97: 93: 89: 84: 80: 79: 76: 73: 71: 70: 67: 63: 59: 55: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 887: 870: 867: 844: 834:Patar knight 829: 825: 804: 803: 799: 778: 764: 763: 741:Donald Trump 726: 725: 720: 683: 673:Andy's edits 669:Talk to Andy 660:Andy Mabbett 653: 626:Gerda Arendt 615: 587: 579:Andy's edits 575:Talk to Andy 566:Andy Mabbett 555: 545:Andy's edits 541:Talk to Andy 532:Andy Mabbett 497: 493: 489: 465:Keep/Restore 464: 452:Gerda Arendt 447: 412: 398:Andy's edits 394:Talk to Andy 385:Andy Mabbett 378: 374: 349:just quotes 333:Patar knight 280:WP:BLPDELETE 274: 271:WP:BLPDELETE 254:Andy's edits 250:Talk to Andy 241:Andy Mabbett 234: 230: 196: 153:WP:BLPDELETE 150: 123: 49: 47: 31: 28: 638:. Thanks, 562:by a mile. 783:Locke Cole 746:Locke Cole 634:Locke Cole 473:Jenny Bond 431:Locke Cole 417:Locke Cole 355:Locke Cole 313:Locke Cole 215:Locke Cole 66:Sunasuttuq 876:talk page 853:SmokeyJoe 706:SmokeyJoe 689:Montanabw 513:WJBscribe 498:must have 351:WP:BIODEL 309:WP:BIODEL 305:WP:BLPDEL 297:WP:BLPDEL 285:WJBscribe 184:SmokeyJoe 37:talk page 878:or in a 830:restored 600:debate. 494:can have 164:RoySmith 130:RoySmith 39:or in a 807:Hut 8.5 767:Hut 8.5 729:Hut 8.5 654:artcile 632:, and 622:Collect 201:Collect 96:history 721:Delete 560:WP:GNG 516:(talk) 301:WP:AFD 288:(talk) 275:should 235:speedy 197:Delete 167:(talk) 133:(talk) 851:. -- 640:Hobit 616:draft 602:Hobit 477:Oculi 182:. -- 104:watch 100:links 16:< 857:talk 826:Keep 710:talk 704:. -- 684:Keep 644:talk 606:talk 481:talk 456:talk 448:Keep 379:this 231:This 205:talk 188:talk 108:logs 92:talk 88:edit 50:Keep 836:- / 667:); 573:); 539:); 392:); 335:- / 248:); 859:) 789:• 785:• 752:• 748:• 712:) 671:; 646:) 628:, 624:, 608:) 577:; 543:; 483:) 471:, 458:) 437:• 433:• 423:• 419:• 396:; 375:An 361:• 357:• 319:• 315:• 282:. 252:; 221:• 217:• 207:) 190:) 106:| 102:| 98:| 94:| 90:| 64:, 60:, 855:( 791:c 787:t 754:c 750:t 708:( 663:( 642:( 636:: 620:@ 604:( 569:( 535:( 479:( 454:( 439:c 435:t 425:c 421:t 388:( 363:c 359:t 321:c 317:t 244:( 223:c 219:t 203:( 186:( 110:) 86:(

Index

Knowledge:Miscellany for deletion
talk page
deletion review
Knowledge:Deletion policy#Deletion of biographies and BLPs
CambridgeBayWeather
Uqaqtuq (talk)
Sunasuttuq
07:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Draft:Michael Cole (public relations)
Draft:Michael Cole (public relations)
edit
talk
history
links
watch
logs
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Michael Cole (public relations)
Knowledge:Deletion review/Log/2017 March 14
RoySmith
(talk)
14:06, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
discussion on my talk page
WP:BLPDELETE
RoySmith
(talk)
11:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Knowledge:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Discussion_to_reverse_a_BLPDELETE_decision
SmokeyJoe
talk
00:56, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

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