1386:
am supposed to do this and what it is the point of this arbitration. Am I asked not to contribute anymore? I joined
English wikipedia because I thought I could contribute about Catalan-related matters not covered in this project. And, as you can easily check if you follow from my profile, I think I can help well enough. During this time I have been personally insulted and threatened, sadly I think under the condescension of some admins, and all this despite I believe I have always tried to have a respectful attitude with all people with different POVs. I hope all these dynamics may change in the future, and I may contribute back again in the different topics where I think I could still offer plenty of information. Best regards,
1278:
1137:
breaking any Wiki policies, but that they are people with very strong political convictions who often unconsciously fall into double-think. I think that their narrow focus on stressing the exceptionality of
Catalonia and cultural unity of Catalan-speaking territories has acted to the detriment of these articles, which after their edits can often read as missionary tracts.
879:
opportunity, for I think that
Casaforra is mainly in good faith (even though the fact that he is calling now that major vandal called Benimerin to be revived is really puzzling). I don't know how he's been acting recently, but Toniher has proved to me once or twice in the past that he can also be agreeable and in good faith. Thus, I guess there is a chance.
1141:
that
Catalonia is defined as a "nationality" (not a "nation", a nationality) in its statute does not make that either true or encyclopedic, and should therefore be reported as opinion not fact. One can't simply keep posting "Catalonia is a nationality" citing the statute, without answering the core of my argument, as was done at the time.
934:. I find it astonishing, and hypocritical, as the Arbitration Committee probably will, that the administrator Physchim62 names as "culprits" three users who have never engaged in 3RR violations and who have never resorted to insults (unlike Maurice27); in fact, none of us have been blocked for disruptive behavior or for violating
1233:
Point taken. That is why the consensual version proposed by Joan sense nick, avoided the term from the lead paragraph, and contextualized it in the lead section by literally citing, in quotation marks, and referencing, what the
Statute of Autonomy says. (I think you were absent during that time; I am
1385:
Dear all, I lament not having contributed to
Knowledge (XXG) much lately, partly because of lack of time due to personal and professional reasons and, I suppose as well, partly because of the attitudes pointed by some other Catalan-speaking wikipedians before. I'm writing this and I'm not sure why I
929:
His sympathy for the POV of the disruptive editors involved has been evident, not only by condoning their lack of etiquette and disruptive behavior, but also by naming in this request for arbitration only those users who disagree with his POV (Toniher, Casaforra and myself), but not those who happen
1147:
I feel that these articles are damaged by the narrow focus of the contributors (myself included) on minutae, but I strongly believe that wikipedia must not become a trojan horse for a political viewpoint to insinuate itself into
English language discourse, particularly when it is one that has such
720:
In partial reply to
Casaforra and Dunadan below: May you be reminded that this is a request for arbitration on 2 articles and not a judgement against my person? Neither Physchim's, Mountolive's or myself's statements have reduced explanations to a single user level like you both are doing. You are
1140:
I feel that they sometimes also selectively misunderstand arguments in discussions, and use sources that have no validity.That a government legislates that something is true, citing the example
Dunadan quoted, does not make it in any objective sense, true. At one point I was arguing that the fact
1102:
I do apologize, I had edited this section over a dozen times see history), until I realized that this is not the place to provide evidence, but to support the request for arbitration, so I restructured and summarized the above points. From the edits, your name was left in there by mistake. From
576:
is fairly classic in such cases. The said users attempt to revert certain edits which cite reliable sources but which do not conform to their point of view. They themselves are less than able to provide reliable sources for their assertions, or sometimes even to remain civil. The result is edit
1328:
I'm not consider myself as sockpuppeeter because: a) I have not used twice any of my rights as wikimedian user; b) I have not contributed with two accounts at same time; c) I have not used both accounts to figure out there are two different persons: d) In the same day I've registered this new
1136:
I don't want to get into a bitch fight here, and I am still unsure what the specific charges against
Toniher, Dunadan and Casaforra are. I am aware that Cas and Dun are excellent contributors on a range of non-Catalan and/or less political topics. I would suggest that they aren't deliberately
584:
failed because of the refusal of the concerned parties to participate. I am bringing the case to Arbitration because of the shear length of disruption, and because of new indications of disruptive sock puppetry which, if confirmed (as far as these things can be), would cover the much of this
878:
Me personally I have been mostly out of these articles for a few months now. Actually, these very articles are responsible for having quite disengaged me from wikipedia. It would feel nice if we got a solution good for everybody who is there in good faith and this is, I guess, one more last
670:
Reply to various users below: I am not going to discuss individual administrative actions here; there will be time and space to do that later, if the Arbitration Committee accepts this request. Frankly, I find that the statements only confirm my reasons for bringing this request.
1095:
This is not probably the right place to make it, but I would appreciate it if you could prove to me in my talk page that I did that and said so. If I did, please accept my apologies beforehand for asking you to prove it. Otherwise, I will be willing to accept your
1508:
3) Knowledge (XXG) works by building consensus through the use of polite discussion. It is reasonable to expect that this process will require significantly more time and effort when dealing with disputed or controversial article topics than it would otherwise.
42:
Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this case. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the
692:
and to ask themselves whether this is the sort of situation which a single admin should be resolving on their own? Admins have a duty to try to prevent disruption, by using their judgement in particular cases, but they also need support from time to time.
1312:
Very later (around of four months) I've again started to participate but from anonymous to check if the situation is the same, and I had considered that it was not necessary to reveal who I am. When Mountolive and the disruptive user Maurice27 (see:
1595:
has an extensive history of personal attacks, for which he has been blocked numerous times, and for extended periods. He has demonstrated a clear unwillingness to abide by Knowledge (XXG)'s conduct policies, and has expressed his contempt for them
1018:
who, being sympathetic with a POV has opened this ludicrous accusation, castigated and permanently blocked an innocent user while blatantly ignored, even when asked to do something, the disruptive behavior of those users with whom he
783:
But, please, go on, and read the archived talk pages as well. Psychim62 was very prompt to block indefinitely two anon IPS and one new user (Benimerin), but has done nothing regarding a very disruptive and incivil user, Maurice27.
568:
and various related articles have been the scene of serious edit-warring. I feel that the users above are the "main culprits": they act as a group, and there are strong suspicions of sock puppetry concerning at least some of them.
920:). When confronted and asked to open a fair investigation to confirm the identity of the purported sock puppet, or to prove his innocence, Physchim62 said that this sock-puppetry case was "evident" and ultimately responded that "
1188:) are not encyclopedic. But, it really doesn't matter what we think truth is, but what can be verified. And Catalonia is defined as a nationality by two verifiable primary sources. That is why I argue that you are disregarding
1132:
Firstly, Dunadan, the link you have posted does not support the conclusions you have drawn from it. I was unsure as to why the mediation had been requested, but had not assumed Maurice27 was the person being investigated.
1163:
The problem is that you are defining objective reality and ascribing it to a particular point of view. You say that the Spanish constitution cannot be the objective reality (i.e. "truth"). And, like I said in
1453:
59:
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was unblocked (or forgiven from his permanent blockage), he contended, yet again, the consensual version, and starting a new edit war. Yet, Physchim62, sympathetic with Maurice27's POV claims that it is
129:
897:) had not only acted promptly, but fairly. I agree with Casaforra, Physchim62 has blatantly ignored the repeated insults, swearing, ad hominem attacks and disruptive behavior of other users. In fact
1144:
However, I don't see that any action can or should be taken on these pages, it is a free web, and anyone has the right to write what they please. The users are biased but in the main well-meaning
734:, clearly shows how this users are only working together to make their point stand over the others, no matter what it takes. Neither Physchim, Mountolive, Boynamadsue or myself are doing so. --
1309:(Xtv, SMP, Dunadan, and me) which are being having problems with these users when we want to improve article related to Catalan-speaking world in wp:en from our quality-rated articles there.
1003:, even claiming that the constitution of Spain and the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia are not unbiased sources (and therefore, should not be used). The first user repeatedly engaged in
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48:
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aspects of a case: the editors whom Casaforra names were all notified of the request for arbitration at the same time as those listed above, and have now all added a statement here.
1696:
Log any block, ban or extension under any remedy in this decision here. Minimum information includes name of administrator, date and time, what was done and the basis for doing it.
875:
I definitely agree to this. The medical symptoms couldn't be explained better by Physchim62: talk page diarrhea. Talk pages haven't proved effective at all in those articles.
44:
1212:
Can you really not understand what I'm saying Dunadan? A government can legislate and we can report what they have legislated. Which of these goes better in an Encyclopedia
1436:
Accept, may be s/w premature in terms of dispute resolution, but the claims of sockpuppets and the mention of improper blocks makes me think that we need to take the case.
1034:(those with whom Physchim62 is sympathetic) as well as other users who, like Toniher, Casaforra and myself, have helped build a consensus and participated peacefully:
710:
I agree with this request. Each change or edit even if proven with legal and/or graphic sources has to be discussed, sometimes even for weeks, on talk-pages. --
787:
I don't know where to sign but I fully agree that, once for all, somebody setles peace and gets some heavy consensus. I'll stand for whatever arbiters say. --
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2) The parties to the underlying content disputes are encouraged to continue with the normal consensus-building process to produce high-quality articles.
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If a Request for Arbitration happens, then please include all the users involved in the edition of those articles. That is (in alphabetical order):
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817:: Diarrhea talk pages plenty of trollings (by you) and insults (by you) with your lack of sense to reach any consensus that doesn't fit your POV.
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In my humble opinion, I think that anybody can see at every historial that the attitude of Maurice27, as the bad person (very unrespectful,
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1305:) contributions of Valencian and Catalonian wikimedians users came from wikipedia in Catalan. Note that in the involved parties, there are
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The situation at the aforementioned talk pages wouldn't have been as drastic as to request for arbitration if the administrator involved (
1011:) who provide sources, and resorts to demagogy to disqualify reputable sources such as the aforementioned legal documents and Britannica.
1788:
834:
We all have proved that we can debate with different sources, arguments and reasonings, you haven't. You only disrupt by lying (I never
1092:
and, also, seems that I even claimed that the constitution of Spain and the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia are not unbiased sources.
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in their dealings with other users. Insulting and intimidating other users harms the community by creating a hostile environment.
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58:. That page may also be used for general comments on the evidence. Arbitrators will then vote on a final decision in the case at
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Cool, that was more or less what we were working on a few days ago. It wasn't contested by me, I just think it needs extending.
1631:
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1344:), and Mountolive, as the good person, is avoiding and to disrupt the normal participation of Catalan and Valencian users fron
1192:. I have no political opinion whatsoever: I am not even Catalan. I read what the constitution says, and I report it. Simple. --
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six-month period. As such, I feel that a case can be made on the basis of user conduct rather than on that of article content.
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In reply to Maurice27: The main problem on both pages Physchim62 noted is you, Maurice27. Just take a look at these articles:
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To complete the reply to Casaforra, as far as I'm able at this point, it is usual that the Arbitration Committee looks at
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So, yes, you can count on me for this...if it is going to be different than those talk pages mentioned, of course.
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impression was to say that this request of arbitration was most probably caused by Maurice27's disruptive behavior
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because I was tired that Valencian related articles were hijacked by Maurice27 and Mountolive, as they act
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1168:, maybe you are right, maybe, just maybe there are no "nationalities" within Spain. But, like I said in
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to agree with his particular POV (Mountolive, Boynamedsue and Maurice27), some of which have resorted to
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Arbitrators, the parties, and other editors may suggest proposed principles, findings, and remedies at
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All users, therefore, should be added to this request for arbitration, not only one party. Please add
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not sure). However, this consensus was, yet again, contested for being "inaccurate" and "biased". --
1184:. By demagogy you might argue that that neither the constitution nor the Statute of Autonomy (being
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820:* And compare them with the way two different POVed users (Mountolive and me) resolve differences:
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I could name many more examples where your posts begin a war-edit because of your bad behaviour.
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as well as numerous associated issues, including political, linguistic, and cultural concerns.
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truth (or, as you aptly put it: objective reality, or our perception of what "truth" is) but
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2) Knowledge (XXG) editors are expected to make a good faith effort to comply with policy.
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a new account I've tried to recover my forgotten password but the email address related to
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as needed, but closed cases should not be edited otherwise. Please raise any questions at
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administrator, because of his disruptive behavior, and yet he was unblocked again.
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Continuous addition of discussion by the involved users in a page where it says
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Now that I read your statement, I notice you are also saying that I disregard
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direct insults, article ownership, sarcasm and extremely disruptive behavior
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1215:"All Americans have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
1107:, there is no evidence to suggest that you said so. Again, I apologize. --
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warring, talk-page diarrhea and a paralysis of constructive editing.
1176:(please read it), the threshold for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) is
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has now been unblocked and informed of the request for arbitration
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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration#Requests for clarification
1337:, and so I had not be able to notice soon about my new situation.
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As for me, I should say I'm only editing on the Talk page of the
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had to be blocked, first temporarily, and then permanently, by
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967:), after debating peacefully, and disagreeing on many issues,
1700:
Maurice27 blocked by me for 30 days to implement remedy 1.1.
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938:. It is even interesting (and eye-opening) to note that even
1007:. He constantly challenges the consensus of other users (in
1712:
Maurice27 blocked by me for 2 weeks for repeat offenses of
776:, I haven't ever edited in the article or the talk page of
914:
assigning him a purported puppeteer without solid evidence
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is unaccesable for me, so I've created this another one.
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is banned from Knowledge (XXG) for a period of 30 days.
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A review of the use of the administrative privileges of
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1) The dispute revolves around the political status of
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Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)
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I've stopped during a time to contribute in wp:en as
916:, and without a fair "trial" (no case was opened at
1333:have blocked me quickly in a unbehavioured action
852:. It's you who, in last term, is causing all this.
987:Arbitration is needed for the following reasons:
1720:related to dispute resolution on an edit war on
65:Once the case is closed, editors may add to the
1817:blocked by me for 31 hours for edit warring on
949:Physchim62 claims that we act as a group, yet
1457:(vote counts and comments are there as well)
837:edited in the Catalonia article as you claim
684:Might I ask undecided arbitrators to look at
609:All involved might wish to bear in mind that
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1686:Passed 8-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1671:Passed 6-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1604:Passed 6-2 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1538:Passed 8-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1514:Passed 8-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1498:Passed 8-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1483:Passed 8-0 at 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
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908:Phychim62 permanently blocked a new user (
51:. Evidence is more useful than comments.
1470:1) Knowledge (XXG) users are expected to
955:users (the three users he "groups", plus
1757:for a period of 24h for edit warring on
18:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration
912:) whose POV he personally opposes, by
589:In partial reply to Casaforra below,
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580:A Request for Mediation relating to
732:"This is not a page for discussion"
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1851:Knowledge (XXG) arbitration cases
1504:Consensus on controversial topics
1148:disregard for objective reality.
38:on 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1348:on Knowledge (XXG) in English.
1281:"Good and bad persons", in the
910:eventually shown to be innocent
1708:02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
1365:PD: And unrespectful attitude
1307:four administrators from wp:ca
969:agreed on a consensual version
478:Since at least February 2007,
1:
721:asked to take that matter to
1819:Republican Left of Catalonia
1615:Maurice27 banned for 30 days
1472:behave reasonably and calmly
1335:based simply on casual facts
1062:01:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC) --
30:on 23:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
1160:Amen to that. Mountolive.-
923:it is none of your business
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822:Valencian Nationalist Bloc
623:) was previously known as
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1358:كُنْ ذكورا إذا كُنْت كذوب
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1128:Statement by Boynamedsue
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1452:All numbering based on
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871:Statement by Mountolive
474:Statement by Physchim62
67:#Log of blocks and bans
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745:Statement by Casaforra
706:Statement by Maurice27
1396:Preliminary decisions
1373:, and now it's about
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1478:are not acceptable.
1381:Statement by Toniher
1319:asked me to register
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889:Statement by Dúnadan
1369:, before if it was
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1500:
1490:
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1485:
1467:
1464:
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1448:
1447:Final decision
1445:
1444:
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1425:
1416:
1402:
1399:
1397:
1394:
1382:
1379:
1297:to avoid (see
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1170:Talk:Catatonia
1166:Talk:Catalonia
1129:
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1125:
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1123:
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1105:Talk:Catalonia
1097:
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1024:User:Maurice27
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977:User:Maurice27
899:User:Maurice27
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867:
853:
832:
829:
818:
803:
746:
743:
742:
741:
727:
726:
707:
704:
682:
681:
668:
652:
651:
650:
591:User:Benimerin
574:modus operandi
475:
472:
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2:
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1778:Civit cardona
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1774:
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1753:) blocked by
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1191:
1187:
1183:
1182:verifiability
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946:, not by us.
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849:or insulting
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1513:
1507:
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1469:
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1288:
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1049:
1036:User:GillesV
986:
981:
965:User:GillesV
951:
950:
948:
928:
921:
907:
902:
892:
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881:
877:
874:
811:Antoni Gaudí
786:
782:
771:
748:
731:
725:if you wish.
709:
686:this section
683:
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53:
41:
35:
33:
27:
25:
1371:about penis
1367:is going on
1323:User:Joanot
1291:User:Joanot
1285:, Valencia.
1271:User:Joanot
1256:Boynamedsue
1225:Boynamedsue
1152:Boynamedsue
1099:Mountolive
885:Mountolive
846:, trolling
751:Boynamedsue
329:Boynamedsue
106:protections
36:Case Closed
28:Case Opened
1807:block user
1801:page moves
1656:block user
1650:filter log
1585:block user
1579:filter log
1489:Compliance
1461:Principles
1427:Accept. --
1377:people...
1269:(formerly
763:Physchim62
759:Mountolive
695:Physchim62
673:Physchim62
660:Physchim62
642:Physchim62
599:Physchim62
460:block user
454:filter log
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220:block user
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118:page moves
83:Physchim62
1813:block log
1662:block log
1621:Maurice27
1591:block log
1550:Maurice27
1544:Maurice27
1531:Catalonia
1353:Benimerin
1315:block log
1009:Catalonia
973:Catalonia
942:'s first
861:parlem-ne
857:Casaforra
793:parlem-ne
789:Casaforra
778:Catalonia
767:Benimerin
755:Maurice27
736:Maurice27
712:Maurice27
690:WP:AN/3RR
611:Benimerin
481:Catalonia
466:block log
418:block log
377:Benimerin
370:block log
322:block log
274:block log
226:block log
185:Casaforra
178:block log
137:Maurice27
112:deletions
56:/Workshop
49:/Evidence
45:Talk page
1845:Category
1789:contribs
1765:FayssalF
1751:contribs
1741:Taraborn
1702:Picaroon
1632:contribs
1610:Remedies
1561:contribs
1466:Courtesy
1438:FloNight
1429:jpgordon
1418:Accept.
1408:James F.
1406:Accept.
1342:see this
1096:excuses.
1040:User:Xtv
975:. After
957:User:Xtv
635:contribs
621:contribs
436:contribs
388:contribs
340:contribs
292:contribs
244:contribs
196:contribs
148:contribs
94:contribs
1823:Toddst1
1755:Toddst1
1726:Toddst1
1388:Toniher
1090:WP:NPOV
1086:WP:CITE
1019:agrees.
1001:WP:NPOV
997:WP:CITE
903:another
807:Andorra
543:protect
538:history
498:protect
493:history
425:Toniher
281:Dúnadan
1420:SimonP
1411:(talk)
1243:únadan
1201:únadan
1116:únadan
1071:únadan
1059:únadan
1042:, and
1005:WP:3RR
936:WP:3RR
918:WP:SSP
698:(talk)
676:(talk)
663:(talk)
645:(talk)
625:Joanot
602:(talk)
547:delete
502:delete
124:rights
100:blocks
1761:. --
1619:1.1)
1346:ca:wp
1172:, by
723:WP:AN
564:views
556:watch
552:links
519:views
511:watch
507:links
16:<
1828:talk
1783:talk
1745:talk
1731:talk
1644:logs
1626:talk
1573:logs
1555:talk
1375:LGBT
1299:this
1088:and
999:and
971:for
963:and
926:".
629:talk
615:talk
595:here
572:The
560:logs
534:talk
530:edit
515:logs
489:talk
485:edit
448:logs
430:talk
400:logs
382:talk
352:logs
334:talk
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286:talk
256:logs
238:talk
208:logs
190:talk
160:logs
142:talk
88:talk
1705:(t)
1599:).
1548:2)
1237:the
1218:OR
1195:the
1178:not
1110:the
1065:the
1053:the
952:six
824:or
813:or
688:of
656:all
637:):
130:RfA
62:.
1847::
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1769:-
1724:.
1361:-
1355:-
1351:--
1317:)
1084:,
1050:--
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982:us
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855:--
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1596:(
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1553:(
1273:)
1240:D
1198:D
1113:D
1068:D
1056:D
1046:.
859:(
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86:(
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