1916:
pretty funny sometimes. That leaves
Jessica Kline, who says she "supports feminism." Is that a radical and unusual position here at Knowledge? If so, I guess things are worse than I thought. As for Rhadow's statement "and I'm sure the editor is male." I followed the link above, and did not see Rhadow or that quote there. So the evidence is missing, but besides that, doesn't anyone ever talk about the two-fold Knowledge women's problem on discussion pages? It is well-known there is not enough diversity on Knowledge, even Knowledge knows it. Not enough women editors, and not enough articles about women. This is common knowledge. Perhaps its not discussed because women (or editors who are thought to be women) are stifled and blocked when they do discuss this issue?
1908:
busy person's life with lots of kids and tons of stuff going on, I was tempted to join
Knowledge, but did not get active for quite a long while. I would say that until this summer, I never really got active on Knowledge, with only very occasional edits here and there. If you want an entire history of why I made the edits when I made them, I can, if you need further proof of the fact that I am a single individual and not a sock puppet. On the other hand, I challenge you to look at my edits and tell me how they exuded sock puppetry, and did not, in every single one of my edits in a regular article space, contribute to the quality of the project. Please name one edit I made that did not benefit Knowledge.
1920:
in my building. Since, however, I have no idea how IPs actually work, isn't it possible that I do share an IP with everyone else who pays my provider the same exorbitant rates who also lives nearby, like, lets say, in the same country I live in, in which there are many
English speakers who could be Wiki editors? If I come out of this a full-fledged Wiki editor that went through a traumatic experience, trial by ordeal of sorts, will I then be allowed to voice my opinions without further fear of being wrongly accused in the future? As long as I don't insult or bully anyone?? I hope so, because this defense took up most of my precious Saturday night.
1896:
illogical, stubborn and biased arguments which made the editors seem to me like they were using their power to shut-up dissenting voices. It had nothing to do with theorizing about "who runs the project." That is ridiculous, and I apologized after for using harsh language. Maybe the fact that two people in this group feel this way, along with many women who have tried editing on
Knowledge and quit feel this way, is more an indication of how the entrenched editors make new editors feel. People close to the project should read some of the articles I cited when I went off on my tangent, which brings me to
1768:, that my flaw is overly daring and bad writing. It's a lot easier to get a consensus agreement that I need to go based on charges of sockpuppetry and COI, using the tools for combating copyright violations (deletions of the talk pages where a defense was made) than to outright say, "your edits are simply below the WP standard." It is a convenient way to flush the unwanted editors. The rules for speedy delete give admins the ability to flush an editor's unwanted work and the defenses that went with it. With the secret privileges like UC come a higher obligation to justice.
1724:
observations that, on their own, are equally difficult to justify. I referred to another editor, one who is involved in a political edit war, this way, "and I'm sure the editor is male". It's my opinion, based on the vitriol of his (or her, as the case may be) comments. On the basis of a single comment, and a cross-tabulation against other users who have also used the "two cents" colloquialism, I am linked to four other users who have done the same. In statistics, this is called data-dredging. One can use this technique to ascribe
1953:, but circumstantial evidence shows that checks have to made as much as a process of elimination as to establish guilt. People who protest too much also draw even more suspicion onto themselves - a proven psycho-sociological phenomenon. SPI is not a witch hunt or a ducking stool. If they are not socks they don't have anything to worry about - even I was included in an SPI once. However, with or without CU evidence, passing a duck test is often sufficient for a block. Appeals can be made in the proper channels.
2025:
1745:
editors, if only to clean up the backlog of slightly flawed articles. There are only three solutions as I see it: relax the standards for articles, tone down the criticism of imperfect editors, or seek to recruit more editors from which to select the best. To improve the quality of the library, one might consider wholesale deletion of old imperfect articles, but that would discount the work of thousands of volunteers who created and improved those pages in good faith.
1912:
coherent and sensible argument on the page, and I joined in the vote. Am I being punished for taking a side on a vote? Do you think I work for Gene
Friedman's detractors that would like to see his uncomplimentary article remain on Knowledge? That seems like a conspiracy theory to me more than proof that me and WLC are the same person. Do we sound the same??? I wish I had a way with words the way he does. The same argument as above defends my vote on the CFD page.
2073:
1970:
2054:
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1995:
1900:
or other is being broken. You are comparing me and Rhadow, which after reading her defense above, I consider a compliment. She is ten times more eloquent and learned than I am. I feel like we are being accused because we dare to question the way the rules are being used. Cant you see by our styles and emphasis that we are clearly two different people??
1904:
except to say, it is just a really weird coincidence. Probably no one at all except for me and Rhadow open our arguments on
Knowledge with double hyphens. However, when I went to see how Rhadow used her double hyphen, I found the page was deleted. without proof then, perhaps I am unique in this way, and this is no evidence at all?
1752:, who, without a lawyer, was found guilty of breaking into a pool hall. Without the help of any advocate, he pled his case to the Supreme Court of the United States. The result was the line you hear on every police procedural, "if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided to you." I read the
1919:
I see I have not yet been blocked, I guess because you are checking my IP. I do not use a VPN, my IP is from my local internet provider that I pay way too much for. I live in an apartment building, but since I am the only
English speaker in my building, I will assume I am the only English Wiki editor
1915:
10. Yes, finally, last but not least, the women's thing. All of us in the "gang of four" have this "thing" about women. I just looked at WLC's correction of woman to female. Ummm, that was a grammar correction. If you think that is a "feminist" correction, well, all I can say is, you Wiki editors are
1899:
6. The Grand
Historical Theme theory. I apologize for my tangent on the Criteria for Speedy Deletion page. I was on a rant because I think Knowledge is good, but it can be so much better, if other opinions were actually listened to, thought about, and considered on their merits, rather than what rule
1851:
I understand full well that my nation's prisons are full of people who protest their innocence daily. And I know that juries often believe that the shackled prisoner must be guilty of something, or why would he be here? You are already talking about appeals. That, sir, is very encouraging. I believe
1771:
I trust the people who look through the IP logs to see that no other users' traffic comes from my address. I trust the people who review my edits to see that despite the unfortunate use of cliche, I am not the alter ego of another user. I trust the people who contact the subjects of various articles
1731:
In another allegation, I am accused of "having a theory" about WP. Argue with me please about the theory. Don't use it to prove that I am a sockpuppet for someone who expressed the same notion. I use the em-dash as part of my standard salutation. It is my consistent habit for decades. To claim that
1494:
Winged Blades of Godric, I understand that
Orangemoody is some kind of bogeyman around here that can be invoked to make a user seem tainted but so far as I know, I haven't had anything to do with Orangemoody accounts or articles. Please tell me which accounts or articles you're talking about. I think
1907:
8. Daring Donna was created on
November 15, 2015. I would imagine many editors were created within a week or so of when Plz was blocked. If you look at my history, I barely did any editing from Nov 2015 until Dec 2016. Is that the normal behavior of sock puppets? I don't know, but like anything in a
1891:
4. Use of the phrase "2 cents." I said a permutation of that phrase, using 50 cents or some other higher number, because my comment was so long. Is the use of one of the most common colloquialisms in modern English so rare on Knowledge that use of it lumps one in a sock puppet conspiracy? Seems like
1878:
I am not sure where to begin, because it seems no matter what I might say to defend myself, I will somehow sound like one of the other editors in this round-up. So I will start with what my accuser(s) believe(s) is the evidence that shows that Rhadow, WLC (WorldsLamestCritic), Jessica Kline, and me,
1775:
You have two choices: to banish me or to tolerate a member of the community who challenges you to make WP better. A decision against me will have longer-lasting effects than elimination of one non-conforming editor. It will energize the search for people like me and result in a closed community that
1708:
I stand now before this tribunal whose allegations against me are sockpuppetry. The penalty is banishment from WP, and likely a block on the cable TV IP address from which my traffic emanates. Whether sockpuppetry is the real offense, I don't know. Perhaps is that I am daring beyond my seniority.
1740:
In the outside world, we have constitutional, statutory, and jury-provided protections for the accused. WP doesn't work that way. Evidence and testimony is deleted with suspect pages. Allegations are permanent. There is no obligation for anyone to respond to a defendant's statement. I know this
1719:
I realize now that my views are not close to the consensus. A community, if it is to be a community, must have divergent views in order to grow, in the same way a population must have mutations if it is to evolve. Mutations that are not useful result in early death and inability to reproduce. The
1715:
WP desires to have a community of committed volunteers. It perceives sockpuppetry and conflict of interest as anathema to that goal. It has therefore instituted strict guidelines against these activities and built tools to localize it. I suggest that in so doing, it has generated a great deal of
843:
Daring Donna: "This discussion is just one more proof that Knowledge is run by a bunch of no-nothing bullies who are more interested in their little power struggles than the quality of the content of the encyclopedia. Anyone with half a brain not corrupted by his own ego would Google Gene Friedman
1824:
These are not new arguments. Shakespeare described the first in 1600, when he wrote for Queen Gertrude, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." It's an opinion, not a proof of guilt. There is already suspicion on me. Two cases. Why am I not allowed a vigorous and competent defense? That was
1911:
9. Voted on the CSD discussion and the Gene Friedman AfD discussion. I was frustrated by the level of arguments in both of these discussions, which seemed radically illogical to me, and even unpleasantly hostile. The Gene Friedman article seems legit, and WLC's arguments looked to me like the one
1895:
5. I have a "theory" about who runs the project. Really? I don't have a conspiracy theory, if that is what you mean. Like its an arm of some fake news site, or a secret project of the CIA to spread false beliefs in the world?? No, ummm I don't think so. I was just very frustrated by what I saw as
1903:
7. Double Hyphen. You are right there. I just checked the entire Criteria for Speedy Deletion discussion page, and found no other instances where the double hyphen was used to open an argument, although it is used countless times in other ways on the page. I am afraid I cant defend myself here,
1744:
Am I the only one? Probably not. My protests were used to link me to other editors, as if a similar observation is proof of some connection. I argue not. A business may know a lot about its customers, but it knows relatively little about the prospects who never became customers. WP needs new
1723:
I look at the reasoning in the discussion about me. I use the expression "two cents." It is a common enough colloquialism that its use is hardly worthy of mention, except perhaps as violation of encyclopedic writing. Instead, it is woven into a circumstantial argument that includes other
965:
Now, please bear with me. "my two cents" is a common expression, and the number of users interested in "femininity", broadly construed, is huge. But a cross-section of these in accounts with a small number number of edits that are also linked by other means (above) is significant.
1820:
People who protest too much also draw even more suspicion onto themselves - a proven psycho-sociological phenomenon. ... However, with or without CU evidence, passing a duck test is often sufficient for a block. Appeals can be made in the proper channels.</blocktext:
1833:
is sufficient to block a user, then I am correct. This is a process to cull editors from the herd, not to unambiguously identify paid writing or usage of multiple userids. These kinds of arguments are repeated daily, but they are no less fallacious:
1659:
very similar TLDNR essays by two different socks is, at least in my experience, unique, and is yet another brick in place in showing a relationship between those two accounts. This should be taken into account when behavioral evidence is evaluated.
1760:
evidence is a slippery slope. The danger of groupthink in this instance scares me. Prosecuting an inchoate offense requires a judgement about state of mind. That's pretty hard to judge based solely on WP edits and talk comments.
1273:
I observe that World's Lamest Critic has an interesting contribution history. Their very first edits included Jimbo's talk page, a sockpuppet investigation, and an AfD. These are not the sorts of edits one would expect from a new
1495:
the problem here is that I disagree with your view of paid editing. If a paid editor creates well sourced articles on notable topics, I don't think it serves our readers to delete it. That's why I am arguing for restoration of
1512:
1815:-- I take it you are a Clerk, CheckUser, or patrolling admin. If so, then I assert that your obligation to fairness is paramount. When I read these words, I shudder. This is a theory of justice drawn from Dostoyevsky.
1247:, I think this is a case where behavioral evidence might matter more than CU. All of the older accounts are likely stale, and there is the possibility that the accounts here are from different stale sock farms.
1720:
WP analogy is that troublemakers have to go; free thinkers improve the system. We need a discussion about troublemakers. We need to differentiate between a tolerated healthy dissenter and candidate for exile.
1586:
1545:
to be an Orangemoody related account. As others have noted, I do think that there is significant cause to believe that this is not their first account and that CU won't be useful because the data is stale.
1735:
WP's effort to combat sockpuppetry and COI will inevitably result in innocent parties being wrongly accused and the work of unwitting editors who worked on articles created by miscreants being discarded.
1716:
zeal to ferret out and punish these offenders. The messages I have received from a few thoughtful Wikipedians have been empathetic. Others are far more zealous than the published guidelines and essays.
1146:
1732:
this behavior links me to another is preposterous. In a population as large as WP, the chance of finding a block-new account pair within a month of one another is so high as to be meaningless.
1574:
21:
1852:
that we as Wikipedians are trying to build a strong community and a strong encyclopedia -- not one where a member is cast out on the basis of em-dashes, colloquialisms, and the spelling of
838:
Stand1233: "You are treated harshly and with suspicion from very hostile and political minded group of editors. They delete all your contributions to satisfy their egos no matter what."
1445:
dealt with major suspicion.Extensive wikilawyering for paid sock-puppets(even Orangemoody?? and opening a snowing DRV) and too interested in guaranteeimg the sock-puppeter's their
1289:
1682:
I do not now nor have I ever been in cohoots with the worlds lamest critic (WLC??) and am sorely confused as to why we have been accused of being associated with one another!!!
65:
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1856:
The implication is that I should remain silent while others speak. If that's the standard of justice in the community, it needs to be changed. Let it start here.
1712:
I have written on these topics before. My user page still exists. The text on the talk pages of deleted articles is gone for good. I shan't repeat that writing.
1705:. I am a new and relatively inexperienced editor, but an enthusiastic one. I would like to thank the dozens of editors who have reached out to offer guidance.
947:
58:
1885:
2. Retiring after less than 15 edits. Hmmm, I've actually begun editing more recently, as its summer and my children need less care, and my husband is away.
1628:(Comcast static/geo Houston suburbs) just tried to reset my WP password. Just thought other participants might want to know this. I've also privately emailed
458:
1580:
1980:
932:
1561:
This is one of the most unusual cases I've participated in. Socks butting in amidst an SPI, possible LTA involvement, and now out of the blue somebody at
867:
Rhadow: "A society is in great danger when its prosecutors can work in secret, make permanent public accusations, and bury mistakes without a trace."
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Daring Donna: "Society suffered from this behavior, since fantastic people from "problematic" backgrounds were not allowed to succeed."
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1503:. I don't think that difference of opinion should allow you to accuse me of being in league with someone who allegedly extorts people.
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1413:--Major problem is the sparse number of edits.The CABAL argument is commonly spread on anti-wikipedia sites.Could be copied over.
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The master was blocked in 2016, but there wasn't a case page, so I'm creating a new one. The previously blocked socks are:
310:
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1950:
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1449:.To draw a metaphor, when you are so concerned about Bin Laden, you ought to be some fellow voyager or some-one from
213:
1738:
The question before you is whether the cost of the mistakes justifies the benefit of creating an "orderly society."
291:
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use of the phrase "my two cents" in the edit description, fighting to keep an article about a non-notable subject
698:
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1604:
601:
1665:
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1892:
not strong evidence, or as WLC said "weak sauce," a phrase I never heard of before, but quite expressive.
1687:
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CU might not be effective in this case because Kohs knows how it works and the accounts are pretty stale.
1252:
679:
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1925:
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about another possible incident of WMF system or process infiltration that involves the same LTA(s). โ
1979:
has been blocked - I don't know what they were doing editing this page, but they probably belong with
732:
1882:
1. Giving out sarcastic barnstars. Not only did I never do that, I don't even know what that means.
1826:
1749:
1230:
There are other behavioral similarities to the Rdactyl sockfarm but for now should we wait for CU? โ
582:
1976:
1441:--Most suspicious account.The folks who claims to have a prev. undeclared account--are and will be
155:
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864:, has a theory how dealing with TOU violations on Knowledge is part of a grand historical theme:
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notes "the word you're looking for is "female", not "woman". "Woman" is not an adjective."
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1462:--This too looks much fishy esp. in light of the last two bullets (mentioned by Rentier).
1004:
Three out of four accounts that used the phrase "2 cents" made "women"-related comments.
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3. Jimbo Wales page edits. Just checked my contributions page, and he is not there.
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to discover that they don't know me, much less have a commercial relation with me.
1437:
1292:. Some of these accounts have very similar characteristics to socks linked to Kohs
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Characteristic behaviours of the blocked socks, ordered by decreasing specificity:
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How the suspected accounts are similar to each other and to the blocked accounts:
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2079:- I think we're done here. Clerks are asked to do a final check and close.
2008:
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creation of user page as exactly second edit and similar edit summaries:
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1432:--Scarcity of edits is major problem.No comments as to name-style match.
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was created on November 15th, 2015, just 5 days before the blocked sock
1838:
If you have nothing to hide, then why won't you let me search your car?
1741:
isn't a court. Nevertheless, the objective should still be fairness.
1428:
1128:
Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See
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Accusing established good faith editors of socking of being paid:
1043:
goes off-topic about the low participation of women in Knowledge
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1847:
Why do you want a trial? A plea will be easier for both of us.
985:
used the phrase "my 2 cents" or its variations at least once.
913:, one of the first edits was to give out a sarcastic barnstar
1081:
pointing out someone's alleged COI in one of the first edits
538:
957:
World's Lamest Critic admits that he/she is not a new user
877:
Both comments use the double hyphen (--) at the beginning.
1844:
Your buddy is in the next room, telling the whole story.
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Similar user pages created very early in edit history:
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was created a month after the other socks were blocked.
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essay. Asking people to come to conclusions based on
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that there are quite a few interesting overlaps with
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Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/Thekohser/Archive
1776:discourages new entrants and divergent viewpoints.
1200:
Knowledge:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rdactyl/Archive
1194:Interesting similarities with the blocked socks of
922:, one of the first edits was to edit the JW's page
1936:Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
1841:If you confess, I'll ask the DA to go easy on you.
1137:That's some weak sauce. No offence taken, though.
1653:essay in defense by an accused sock, but to see
817:, gave out a barnstar in one of the first edits
774:Knowledge:Sockpuppet_investigations/Katharine908
2042:The accounts that aren't stale are technically
948:Knowledge:Articles_for_deletion/Gene_Freidman
8:
1529:to this SPI because their first edit was to
1981:Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/Cody MR
835:, has a theory about who runs the project:
793:initial edits are to the Jimbo Wales' page
1610:
1159:one-line userpages beginning with "hello"
1010:notes "and I'm sure the editor is male".
1728:to any number of disparate occurrences.
1101:username similar in style to DaringDonna
1089:"my two cents" in the edit description
1535:nominated this page for speedy deletion
1077:because of the following similarities:
1793:p.s. I spell grammmer with three ems.
826:, "retired" after less than 15 edits
2058:Behavioural evidence needs evaluation
1564:2601:2C5:300:FAA0:90BC:23DC:7EE7:26DB
1152:"grammer" as one word edit summary -
7:
1095:relevency, similar to grammar -: -->
788:"retiring" after less than 15 edits
1941:I admit it may all be confusing to
1210:"grammer" as one word edit summary
18:Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations
844:and see he is certainly notable."
28:
1533:from this SPI and they also just
1130:Defending yourself against claims
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1387:I will be adding something soon.
783:giving out a sarcastic barnstar
1697:Defense in essay form by Rhadow
1319:Obbsession with paid editing:
1086:(compare to WLC's first edits)
1:
1879:are one and the same person.
1094:misspelling relevancy -: -->
1678:I am not associated with WLC
1362:Kohs sock (re: paid editing)
1359:Kohs sock (re: paid editing)
798:use of the phrase "2 cents"
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1453:!There's no middle ground.
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1382:14:20, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
1351:Early posts to Jimbo-talk:
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1115:00:39, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
1069:12:44, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
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743:Editor interaction utility
737:Auto-generated every hour.
1365:WLC egging Jimmy Wales on
1179:Common behaviors above โ
1649:It's very rare to see a
1499:and against deletion of
1875:Hi. I am Daring Donna.
1539:Winged Blades of Godric
1467:As a side-note, I echo
1121:Comments by other users
42:Renamed user jC6jAXNBCg
34:Renamed user jC6jAXNBCg
22:Renamed user jC6jAXNBCg
2051:based on geolocation.
1871:Defense by DaringDonna
1951:World's Lamest Critic
1726:specious correlations
1543:World's Lamest Critic
1505:World's Lamest Critic
1438:World's Lamest Critic
1297:World's Lamest Critic
1139:World's Lamest Critic
1051:"supports feminism".
1033:World's Lamest Critic
983:World's Lamest Critic
905:World's Lamest Critic
442:World's Lamest Critic
143:Suspected sockpuppets
1829:'s argument. If the
772:is also involved in
1779:The defense rests.
1709:It doesn't matter.
1541:, I do not believe
1523:Note, I have added
733:User compare report
2077:Administrator note
1974:Administrator note
1819:<blocktext: -->
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1943:DaringDonna
1922:DaringDonna
1754:Orangemoody
1497:Bruce Flatt
1459:DaringDonna
1347:DaringDonna
1327:DaringDonna
1324:DaringDonna
1307:DaringDonna
1269:in this DRV
1267:As I noted
1041:DaringDonna
975:DaringDonna
944:DaringDonna
935:discussion
929:DaringDonna
884:DaringDonna
856:DaringDonna
833:DaringDonna
717:investigate
620:investigate
523:investigate
426:investigate
345:DaringDonna
329:investigate
232:investigate
123:investigate
1758:behavioral
1617:blockย user
1593:filterย log
768:Note that
680:block user
673:filter log
583:block user
576:filter log
486:block user
479:filter log
389:block user
382:filter log
292:block user
285:filter log
195:block user
188:filter log
86:block user
79:filter log
2049:Unrelated
2001:match to
1999:Confirmed
1854:grammmer.
1831:duck test
1630:Doc James
1623:blockย log
1410:Stand1233
1402:user-wise
1400:Comments
1343:Kohs sock
1340:Kohs sock
1321:Kohs sock
1315:Kohs sock
1311:Kohs sock
1304:Kohs sock
1301:Kohs sock
1288:See also
1174:"My page"
971:Julie2016
920:Julie2016
911:Julie2016
815:Julie2016
809:Stand1233
763:Julie2016
706:CheckUser
693:block log
686:spi block
609:CheckUser
596:block log
589:spi block
512:CheckUser
499:block log
492:spi block
415:CheckUser
402:block log
395:spi block
318:CheckUser
305:block log
298:spi block
221:CheckUser
208:block log
201:spi block
151:Stand1233
112:CheckUser
99:block log
92:spi block
2004:Cody MZR
1825:exactly
1811:--Hello
1766:arguendo
1651:WP:TLDNR
1575:contribs
1537:. Also,
1526:Chris MR
1473:this SPI
1278:RoySmith
1096:grammer
653:contribs
636:Chris MR
556:contribs
459:contribs
362:contribs
265:contribs
168:contribs
59:contribs
20: |
1451:Amnesty
1218:Rentier
1196:Rdactyl
1107:Rentier
1073:Adding
1061:Rentier
1019:Rentier
1985:zzuuzz
1949:, and
1947:Rhadow
1858:Rhadow
1795:Rhadow
1781:Rhadow
1703:Rhadow
1447:rights
1443:always
1281:(talk)
1008:Rhadow
979:Rhadow
933:WT:CSD
895:Rhadow
862:Rhadow
770:Rhadow
723:cuwiki
626:cuwiki
539:Rhadow
529:cuwiki
432:cuwiki
335:cuwiki
238:cuwiki
129:cuwiki
2063:Katie
2034:Katie
1983:. --
1701:I am
1599:WHOIS
1581:(/64)
1404::---
1274:user.
942:Like
927:Like
918:Like
909:Like
860:Like
831:Like
822:Like
813:Like
16:<
2085:talk
2013:talk
2009:DoRD
2007:. โโ
1959:talk
1926:talk
1862:talk
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1611:http
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667:logs
641:talk
570:logs
544:talk
473:logs
447:talk
376:logs
350:talk
279:logs
253:talk
182:logs
156:talk
73:logs
47:talk
2031:-
2015:)โ
1821:-->
1656:two
1634:Bri
1469:Bri
1334:WLC
1330:WLC
1276:--
1245:Bri
1232:Bri
1202:):
1181:Bri
1105:--
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888:Plz
753:Plz
710:log
647:tag
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76:ยท
70:ยท
63:ยท
56:ยท
50:ยท
45:(
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