Knowledge (XXG):Templates for deletion/Log/2007 January 6

1290:,isn't it ? When a soldier committed a rape, how can we categorize it as a "State Terrorism" ?? There was an incident here in Japan ,where an US marine rapped a girl from Okinawa. Can some one call this a "State Terrorism of The USA" ?? If a Chinese soldier commit such a crime ,can you categorize it as "State Terrorism"?? The desire of the editor is quite obvious..When ever a rape happen in SL he's going to have it in Knowledge (XXG) under the "State Terrorism".Can you make any sense out of this ? 1258:

reliable sources like Amnesty International and other human rights groups.Some material, however, should be removed;for instance, the Krishanti Kumaraswamy case is clearly not classifiable as "State Terrorism", and has no place in the template.Most of the instances, however, are clear instances of state terrorism.Those people here protesting the page's existence are clearly pushing a particular point of view based on

530: 1150:: This template contains potentially libellous and unsubstantiated allegations against a sovereign government which violates wikipedia's NPOV. This template is currently being abused as a banner advertisement which can be pasted on pages regarding sri lanka so that the government can be defamed by pro-eelam and LTTE supporters around the world. For example take the following links in the template, 665:. I'm not trying to justify him, but as per my knowledge, in military or any other organisations the commands flow from Top to Bottom. Karuna was the terrorist commander in charge of the eastern province, and he received his orders from his Head Quarters somewhere in the Nothern Province which was headed by the one responsible for all these crimes, 1718: 2113: 1889:, if that is not an option. We're just not ready yet. Currently, even much less contentious Sri Lanka conflict related issues habitually create fierce revert wars, so I think it would only reduce our chances of getting anything done here. This question can be revisisted once we achieve more agreement on easier issues. — 1171:- Again it is stated in the article "He was killed by unknown gunmen in June of 1988 in his own church". If he was killed by unknown gunmen, how on earth can this be a link for state terrorism in sri lanka? There is so much controversy regarding his death which can be verified by reading the controversy section. 1344:

As I have argued many times before with the keepers of this flame: colleagues RaveenS, Travb and Stone, this is not the way to present contested material. It renders events in an inherently POV fashion by its title and linking of material. Leading to a constant battle. There is a perfectly acceptable

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I don't pretend to know a lot about Sri Lankan politics, and am only here because I objected to POV material on another State terrorism page, but those citations are all from Tamil sources and are by no means independent neutral assessments.For instance, the quote "It's state terror in Sri Lanka" is

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I appeal to everyone who voted "keep" here for reasons nothing to do with the nomination, please provide citations for each of the events listed in this template to show which notable independent organization called them "state terrorism", and if so I'll withdraw this nomination. If no citations can

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In Sri Lanka over 65000 people have ben killed unlike other countries neither soliders or government backed thugs ,paramilitary,JVP ,LTTE none of them have been tried in a court of law and sentenced in less 0.0001% cases.This is what I consider state terrorism.Now Look Col Karuna was the independent

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Strong Independent sources back up everything that is said in this article, as well, "Terrorism" is not an abstract concept that only despots can use to accuse their political opponants of to win sympathy and the right to abuse human rights, it is a very clear cut, and sources do substantiate it in

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That's incoherent. A reliable source can still be POV. I'm guessing that the goverment of Sri Lanka would have a different POV. We can record that 'according to x, this is terrorism' but we can't declare that it is. That;s never neutral. Can I create 'State terrorism in India/Pakistan/USA'? I bet I

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Bakasuprman, I was writing about RaveenS. Who eventually changed the title to "Allegations" after a long protratcted dispute to remove the template. But apparently RaveenS went back on this recently and changed it again. Hence yet another protracted dispute. By the way, none of what I have written

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against a sovereign government, and that the template is being used as a banner advertisement which can be pasted over as many pages to try to defame the government of Sri lanka. Letting this template survive would create many conflicts as to what exactly to put in it, and who decides what exactly

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No independent organization has ever called these incidents "State Terrorism". There simply are no citations given in these articles as such. While I'm not disputing whether or not the incidents took place, categorizing them as "State terrorism" is the POV of individual Knowledge (XXG) editors and

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obnoxous and judgemental template, if people want users who come here just to create vanispamcruft to be welcomed warmly they can do it I guess, but I'm not going to. I'll stick to maintaining the quality of the project, which sometimes means deleting new articles. If someone wants to discuss this

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The template is an excellent model for other pages dealing with similar issues to emulate.Inclusion or exclusion of material should be taken on a case-by-case basis.After a cursory, random examination of several of the pages, i would say that most of the material is strongly backed up by neutral,

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place when Karuna was the head of these attacks if they carried in the East surely he had knowledge of them.Both the Sri Lankan Government before Karuna left the LTTE and the Tamils after he left the LTTE consider him a Terrorist by there own definitions surely if anyone is he is .The only person

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No respected agaency has deemed the actions of the Sri Lankan government to be of terrorism. There is a blurry line as to who decides it, but it is plain fact that no Knowledge (XXG) editor has that power. With power comes responsibility. Be Bold, but use that with responsibility. Do not create

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It doesn't matter if individual Knowledge (XXG) editors think these incidents are "state terrorism" or not. Its just beyond the point. The fact is Knowledge (XXG) is an encyclopedia and not a political forum to express our opinions. Everything we include on Knowledge (XXG) has to be cited from

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stating that the LTTE was behind it, yet when we go to the article we have the template in question stating blodly "Allegations of State terrorism in Sri Lanka", which gives the impression that the sri lankan government killed Sivaram which is blatantly false. This shows that the template is

1311:, Some of the counter actions by the Government may have caused civilian deaths..During the war, Air force may missed targets and kill innocent people accidentally ,Is this "Terrorism"?? And if the LTTE is using Human Shields , and civilian die due to this, how can we blame the State ? 1529:

Even if some group did describe them as "State terrorism", that is not a universally agreed view. Thus the template, which cannot carry different views, is inherently POV. Favouring one view against another. Therefore it must be deleted despite your best efforts to propagandize these

1357:. Far more controversial material than this has remained rightly untouched and undeleted before, because it was created within policy. This isn't within policy. At best, the inference of guilt is tacit, at worst it is shoved down our throats without any counterpoint or attribution. -- 748:.Independent Organizations and experts have regularly called Sri Lankan government actions "state terrorism," here are some links, including Asian Human Rights Comission, (three of them from a BBC documentary with experts who label Sri Lankan government actions as state terrorism) 400:. Regardless of the fact that boilerplate is really really annoying for established users to get, this is based on the questionable, at best, assertion that tagging an article for speedy deletion right after it is created is necessarily a case of 2048:

is not a partisan source. Though the other one is from a Tamil newspaper's translation, the "Asian Human Rights Commission" might have given enough thought for reliability and other checks and balances for verification of the truth before it

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Also, None of the Organizations you mentioned above ,say State Terrorism exist in Sri Lanka.Not a single nation, including the USA and the UN ,say "State Terrorism" exist in Sri Lanka..So academically I think this whole thing is

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After a random examination of several of the pages, I also have the same opinion that most of the material are strongly backed up by neutral, reliable sources like Amnesty International and other human rights groups.

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both agree.But allowing him to move with arms carry out kidnapping,killing from government areas including MPs is shocking surely he should if one lived in a lawful state atleast be called for a enquiry by the Police.

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This template has been nominated for deletion several times. And has been the focal point of edit wars and many other issues in Sri Lanka related articles. To ease the tension between edit warring parties I created

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Karuna was the head of the LTTE in the East and if Sri Lankan's government accusations of massacres in the East are taken as 100% true .Karuna was the person who carried it out and he acted independently in several

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The name of the template is undeniably POV, which breaks many wikipedia rules. The articles in the template are already very visible to most of the readers without the template. The template needs big clean up

761: 778:. This is a template that links related actions by state actors in Sri Lanka much like a list but more.Whether linked articles should stay or go is caled editing, no need to delete it. Thanks 1944:

Despite the wide raging political views expressed here, I'd just like to point out that no one has as yet been able to refute what I said in the first sentence of this nomination, which was

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if you notice he even agrees that this (i.e. State Terrorism) template is dubious. After some discussion with me RaveenS agreed to let go the template; you can see the entire conversation

1796:. I understand that it is difficult for RaveenS to part with a template that he created with a good intention. But this template has been highly disruptive and has wasted a lot of time. 1526:

Almost none of these acts have been labelled state terrorism by any notable source. Certainly not by Amnesty who never use the term in their reports, despite what an editor writes above.

1396:

Because Knowledge (XXG) editing is not about editors, it is about the artcles. Make your case againsts the template not about editors. There are other avenues for it not an XFD. Thanks

1922: 1177:- the LTTE is accused of the murder, and there is no evidence to suggest a government hand in his killing. Again there is much controversy regarding the perpatrator of the killing. 606:

As per these policies, Knowledge (XXG) editors cannot arbitrarily decide to call these incidents "State terrorism" and create such a template, and therefore it should be deleted.--

49: 44: 384:, we shouldn't ABF and just stick a warning template on someone's talk page. If anything, a note should be personalized, asking someone to wait a bit, otherwise we're violating 1318:

wrote above.He had pointed out many incident,which may have had LTTE hand in it, but still ended up in this template which shows the true desire/nature of the creator of this.

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merely reported in the Hindu and is quoting a speaker at a Tamil rally. It is an allegation from a partisan group and should be attributed as such, not presented as fact.--

1986:

The above user requested to everyone who voted "keep" here for reasons to show notable independent sources for "state terrorism", I like to provide the following sources:

1126:..But the editor still calls this "state terrorism" !! Isn't it obvious the editors hidden desire to defame the Government of Sri Lanka no matter what good they do ?? -- 1488:- "Alleged State Terrorism" or something. The LAnkans call the LTTE's actions terrorism/militancy and the LTTE calls the lankans actions "state terrorism". Things like 2525:

that should be put on the talk page. Don't need another template to clutter the article itself, especially when the change has little impact on the article itself. --

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If you are going to rebuke an established user DO NOT USE BOILERPLATE. It is patronising and inflammatory. Either take the time to write a message, or don't bother!--

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This template was nominated few months agao and a massive sock puppetry was uncovered because of it. Closing admin should see all the arguments. This is a case of

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Also, please remember ,most the cited sources are far from being neutral..There are sites such as "Tamil Nation" ,"Tamil NET","Sangam " ,"Tamil Canadian"etc..

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Sorry this is about the template not about Terrorism. If your argument is about terrorism as a term then it should be addressed at the correct XFD. Thanks

1670:. "Terrorism" is not an abstract concept that could be only utilised to accuse the enemies in war to win sympathy and the right to abuse human rights. 381: 2274:

maliciously being used to defame a sovereign government using original research and as such should be speedilt deleted to avoid further controversy.

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Because the above nominator has an edit history that shows he is against most the of the articles linked by the template. More with evidence later

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Unnecessary hampering on new page patrollers. This template harms Knowledge (XXG) as it only helps increase the pages for speedy deletion backlog.

21: 2088: 823:. And, of course, the fact that "State terrorism" is an extremely biased term, which should never ever be used in describing specific events. - 1605:

You are wrong in your haste to attack fellow wikipedians. I did not change it to Allegations initially, it was changed by different user. see

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All the above allegations of state terrorism are examples of original research, are completely unsubstantiated and should be deleted.

631:

Now Sri Lankan government should either offer an amnesty to Karunaif it wants to use him or arrest him and try him in a court of law.

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I have to a wait until vote closes before to the listing to the checkuser. Evidence will be produced on request of administrators. --

1118:..Knowledge (XXG) has been used for cheap LTTE propaganda and the incidents mentioned in the template fully confirmed this.Lets take 2233:

Thanks. I read, but it's very difficult from the available criteria to define an information source whether it is biased or not.

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It was sensibly renamed "allegations" after the last tfd fiasco. This was changed by someone. That someone was you, RaveenS.

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is Original Research (eg:- the Forced Disappearances section--how would you know if it is forced, unless you were watching?

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that the sri lankan government was behind the killing (see the controversy section), with even the former LTTE commander

170:, navigation templates which have one article are useless, and a bunch of pages redirecting to one article is the same. - 1777: 624:

There is no rule of law in Sri Lanka like other countries like UK ,Turkey,USA,India, etc atleast in there own countries.

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Sinhala army has a poor record and its crimes are encouraged by the Sri Lankan state.This is state sponsored Terrorism

460: 434: 245: 219: 83: 338: 1441:, has made few contributions to wikipedia and his account appears to be used primarily for voting in AFD's and TFD's. 1278:

Dear stone, Its not only Krishanti Kumaraswamy, all the rapes mentioned in the template can easily be categorised as

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The whole template can be easily rejected for its failure to keep the Academic Standard of Knowledge (XXG)..Thanks--

1013:- this template is irreversably POV, as it looks at the whole Tamil-Sinhalese conflict from only one side. Also see 148: 2602: 2529: 2476: 2410: 2388: 2343: 2278: 2237: 2195: 2163: 2145: 2053: 2037: 2014: 1978: 1929: 1905: 1893: 1875: 1843: 1806: 1759: 1737: 1690: 1674: 1658: 1589: 1577: 1555: 1534: 1516: 1505: 1477: 1445: 1423: 1400: 1386: 1361: 1332: 1270: 1244: 1214: 1200: 1142: 1130: 1102: 1088: 1060: 1035: 1026: 999: 982: 970: 950: 925: 900: 883: 873: 834: 809: 797: 712: 701: 681: 652: 615: 484: 419: 392: 372: 359: 347: 315: 268: 204: 181: 161: 106: 2572: 2133:- This article was retrieved by the "SiberNews" that highly regarded as one of the pro LTTE online news media. -- 1969:

to call them "state terrorism", read the reasons for my TFD nomination again and kindly reconsider your votes. --

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If the wording is corrected and not biased then I suggest we rename this, in my opinion it should be renamed as '

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