Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Hagen Kleinert - Knowledge (XXG)

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398:. If this article is written by the professor himself, and not a relative or someone with the same name, then it is vanity, by definition. Knowledge (XXG) prohibits autobiographies/vanity. Maybe it shouldn't. What is actually wrong with vanity? If an article is about a notable subject and the information contained therein is verifiable, what does it matter if the person wrote it himself? If by some amazing chance, President Clinton had decided to write a Knowledge (XXG) article about himself (perhaps in conjunction with his book tour, or something), would we have deleted it as "vanity", assuming that it was NPOV, true, and verifiable? In fact, "vanity" is rarely provable; it is only a suspicion. We delete, as vanity, bragging articles by high school kids. But these are just as deletable for not being notable, not being verifiable, and being most probably false. Perhaps we should stop using unverifiable suspicions of "vanity" as reasons for deleting articles and stick with notability and verifiability. -- 241:. "No autobiographies" is a good principle, but it's not a hard rule, and in this case, it seems the individual in question may be reasonably noteworthy. True, professors write articles. He's published roughly one per month since 1967, at least some of which are in scientific journals I recognize (and I'm not a physicist). Eight books seems like a pretty big contribution to his field. The article needs cleanup and expansion, but that isn't valid grounds for deletion. 294:: I am not all that convinced that userfying and rewriting may not be the best solution (as a way to eat the cake and still have it), but unless the rewrite is made by somebody expert in the field, it is not going to look much different from the present stub. Compared to the contributions in the same genre we get from some teenagers, this vanity article in its present brevity is downright modest. But as for notability, the 442:. Hear hear BM. I have often used the term vanity used for people who are notable in their fields but who the person using the term hadn't heard of. Sticking to comments of not notable and not verifiable for votes would be much better. While the article as it was gave indications that he had written it, it would be good news if a Professor of Physics at a notable university was writing articles for Knowledge (XXG). 152:
vanity pages and autobiographies are not wikipedia content. I have no problem if a future page gets written up, I'll deal with notability then. This page needs to be deleted because the snail's pace of Knowledge (XXG), plus the general non-notability of this character means it is not likely to be cleaned up any time soon.--
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and having chapters in books and then books published under your own name would be going some way toward notability - but even then the books need to sell and, really, to be the stuff of some import. So, all in all, a weak delete. But if he is prominent in his field then I would change my mind to a definite keep. --
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can be assumed to pass this test with flying colours, even before making any independent assessment of the value of his or her publications, simply because the bar for getting a professorship is so much higher in Germany than in the US. Had Kleinert been a baseball or football/soccer player, there is
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No. A very quick check seems to confirm that this is indeed an important university professor, the author of 8 books (most seem to be available on Amazon) and 350+ scientific articles. Heads a research team of 25 persons and has had a "festschrift" written to his honour by other scholars. Gets almost
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An interesting one. I would generally say that if the subject of an entry is the only one interested enough to write the article, then the subject isn't noteworthy enough to be included. Anyway, doesn't he have friends/students/admirers that he could have asked to write it? But, by now it weems to
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I don't know the field at all (Physics) and so the chap may well be notable. But I do know that writing articles - and having them published - is standard form for all Professors over here (EU). In itself, therefore, that would not seem to make anyone particularly notable. Going beyond that stage
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Actually that statement position is incorrect. It's up to the person putting up the article for deletion to provide evidence why (non-notability, vanity etc.), not the keepers. Remember this is Votes for Deletion - so technically anyone who abstains/no votes, is voting for its retention by default -
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How?? 5,000 google hits, 8 books and only 350 scientific articles is actually not that much. A lot of mediocre academics have acheived this and more. Someone is going to have to come up with a very clear reason why this guy is notable. This page at least needs to eb deleted on standard grounds that
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atom. Kleinert solved the latter. Much of his work is like this. A theoretical genius comes up with amazing mathematical frameworks that promise so much to come, but gets bogged down, and Kleinert finds a way to push the method through. Very important work, but no revolutionary discoveries, no
231:. Writing hundreds of article is not necessarily a notability proof. We should look for quality, not for quantity. Where were these articles published? What impact did they have on the physics community? A professor writes articles all the time, most of them is soon forgotten. 321:. Writing eight books on physics as a professor of that subject in a major university suggests that this man is notable. I would also suggest that the average professor rule be recast as the average academic rule. to account for cultural differences as noted by Uppland. 535:
You are correct, I was out of line. I personally did not want to get involved, just supply the informative comment above, but having my words permuted into amateurish bad science left me feeling grumpy about having to get involved. That and fixing Cap's overstated
408:. It prevents the "Well President Clinton did it" response to any other would be autobiographers trying to add themselves to Knowledge (XXG). If someone is notable enough for inclusion, they really shouldn't have to add themselves. Hence why 159:
How is 5000+ Google hits and 8 books not notable? There have been people with fewer hits and publications that have biographies in Knowledge (XXG). I'm not suggesting the article remain unchanged. As I said, it needs cleanup to make it NPOV.
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yields only two of these books in various editions. If these guy really is notable in the world of physics A) Soemone else would have written an article (or at least expanded on this one) B) At least one physics article might link to him
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This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.
179:- I have shown this to be correct. If you'd like to disagree with those then your vote might make sense. If those go through with a keep I really expect those who vote that way make an effort towards cleaning the article up.-- 187:
its up to people who wish to delete the article to prove otherwise (non-notability, vanity etc.) by majority, not the keepers. Another thing is you've made a comparison between this academic and the artist
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in Berlin (if I remember correctly from when I looked into this). However, he is clearly notable enough for a Knowledge (XXG) article, and in spite of the obviously autobiographical origin, I vote to
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The onus is not on me to prove non-notability, it is for keepers to prove notability. Thats how things usually work. This article has not be nominated due to non-notability. It has been nominated as
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We wouldn't? Name three musicians who had 8 CDs released by an independent label (let alone a major corporate one) who we wouldn't include, and I'll change my vote to delete. Kleinert's books are
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is for Biographies not Autobiographies. This guy seems a pretty average professor - not wikipedia content. We wouldn't let a musician in just because they had 8 CDs of realtively unknown status.--
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5,000 google hits. Granted, his web design skills might be somewhat limited, but that alone shouldn't stop someone from getting into Knowledge (XXG), should it? Obvious notability,
378:. I am a physicist at Harvard, and the amount of his publications etc. justifies a Wikipage. I believe that if the page is deleted, someone else will start it again, anyway. -- 127:
is a principle worth defending even if we temporarily lose an article. (However, I would have no objection if this is moved to his user page nor will I object if someone
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06:23, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC) If Dr. Kleinert was of real encyclopediac value (more than just being a real person) he would have more than "Clean ups" and "dead ends"
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I have toned the book list down to something more reasonable: 3 books, not artifically inflated by listing multiple editions or multiple volumes.--
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this. It would be good, though, if some physicist could take a look at the article and write a fuller description of Kleinert's research. /
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Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
388:. I have read a few Google hits, and this guy is notable in the usual sense, even if the current page is not that interesting. 191:. Chonk in no way has scored +5000 Google hits or written 8 books. So professor Kleinert is not in the same category as Chonk. 556:
I have removed the attention template--the article has reached a decent minimum. I am contributing regularly, and except for
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has had four editions with the latest two editions including financial markets. Has cowritten a paper with notable physicist
455:. In order not to set a precedent (and to get that matter out of the air) we could still userfy this article, and then have 300:"If the individual is more well known and more published than an average college professor, they can and should be included" 205:
Just for the record, it's 3 books, by any realistic account. Multiple editions/volumes should not inflate the count.--
295: 228: 124: 586:, appears to be a professor of note. Unless, of course, we are running out of disk space. In that case, delete. — 473:
has a page!) The only issue is whether it's autobiographical or self-promoting. To that effect, a small warning
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grabbing of attention. Kleinert was collaborating with Feynman during Feynman's last illness. If you look in
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CapitalistRoadster has done an excellent job in tidying up this article. My vote remains unchanged ie. keep.
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Writing books is what academics do. As mentioned previously, notability is in quality not quantity. A quick
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have been "de-vanitised" sufficiently, and it seems Herr Kleinert is probably notable enough, so why not
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As I pointed out on the talk page a while ago, it is almost certainly autobiographical; it is created by
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No hard feelings. I would welcome it if you obtained a username and started contributing more regularly.
389: 593: 561: 537: 522: 504: 344: 206: 560:, having fun. I don't want to get sucked into things too deeply, though, so I avoid having a name.-- 503:, Feb. 1989, at the page of photographs of Feynman's last blackboards, you'll see Kleinert's name.-- 494:
approach to quantum mechanics. But he was unable to actually solve it for simple systems, like the
101: 302:), obviously referring to the American conditions for reaching professorhood. I would claim that 45: 135: 76:. It therefore needs to be deleted. A lot of people seem to be quick to jump on articles link 232: 34:
This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Have expanded it somewhat to include details of written works. His most notable work
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for exactly the same reason, this guy gets off because he's an academic, smeg off.--
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He was my professor at university; believe me, he's notable enough (reasons above)
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cut-and-paste his own version to the article space. Anyone for this solution? /
477: 144:, needs definite cleanup and expansion. The professor passes notability test. 94: 432:
is taking responsibility for this article, which is good enough for me. --
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no doubt that he would have been considered notable for much less. /
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Path Integrals in Quantum Mechanics, Statistics and Polymer Physics
188: 77: 486:. Professor Kleinert's work is certainly notable within physics. 490:, for example, was absolutely brilliant in developing the 612:'s leads about globalizing the "average professor test." 514:
Thank you for that info. I have added it to the article.
66: 68:. This page is quite obvious self made and hence both 255:
Knowledge (XXG):Criteria for inclusion of biographies
24:Knowledge (XXG):Votes for deletion/Hagen Kleinert 412:is a label, not a definition, in this context.-- 451:The article has now been largely rewritten by 424:. Re-reading the comments, I'm going to vote 282:. More than sufficiently notable individual.-- 123:'s conclusion that this is autobiographical. 104:, and later edited by an IP traceable to the 8: 521:Yes, and it came out all wrong sounding.-- 298:speaks of an "average college professor" ( 131:later writes an article about him.) 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 125:Knowledge (XXG):No autobiographies 31: 528:Don't blame others for trying. / 1: 428:. Perhaps it is vanity, but 40:The result of the debate was 623:Please do not edit this page 36:This page is no longer live. 475:Kleinert, please stay away. 640: 51:13:24, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC) 598:) 09:43, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC) 245:06:05, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC) 616:00:48, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) 553:08:50, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC) 532:20:45, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 525:20:23, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 518:14:55, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 436:01:33, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 402:01:30, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 340:05:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 325:08:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 272:20:29, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC) 261:07:14, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 202:00:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 195:01:14, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) 183:06:14, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 164:06:03, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 156:02:42, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 148:01:26, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 84:00:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 580:07:37, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC) 564:16:06, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC) 540:23:29, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 507:14:50, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 480:04:49, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 463:10:02, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 446:05:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 416:09:13, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) 392:20:18, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 382:19:30, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 372:12:07, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 361:10:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 347:20:23, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 311:06:53, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 286:06:08, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 235:05:13, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 209:20:23, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) 138:00:45, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) 116:20:59, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC) 97:17:39, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC) 471:Florentin Smarandache 304:any German professor 119:Delete. Agree with 604:, and follow up on 229:No auto-biographies 610:Capitalistroadster 551:Capitalistroadster 516:Capitalistroadster 457:Capitalistroadster 453:Capitalistroadster 444:Capitalistroadster 338:Capitalistroadster 323:Capitalistroadster 268:vanity-published. 106:Freie Universität 22:(Redirected from 631: 390:Charles Matthews 27: 639: 638: 634: 633: 632: 630: 629: 628: 627: 488:Richard Feynman 334:Richard Feynman 59: 29: 28: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 637: 635: 618: 617: 599: 581: 569: 568: 567: 566: 565: 547: 546: 545: 544: 543: 542: 541: 509: 508: 481: 464: 449: 448: 447: 419: 418: 417: 393: 383: 373: 362: 352: 351: 350: 349: 348: 312: 296:professor test 288: 287: 277: 276: 275: 274: 273: 236: 222: 221: 220: 219: 218: 217: 216: 215: 214: 213: 212: 211: 210: 173:self promotion 139: 117: 98: 74:Self Promotion 58: 56:Hagen Kleinert 53: 39: 32: 30: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 636: 626: 624: 615: 611: 607: 603: 600: 597: 596: 591: 590: 585: 582: 579: 575: 570: 563: 559: 558:Wanda Tinasky 555: 554: 552: 548: 539: 534: 533: 531: 527: 526: 524: 520: 519: 517: 513: 512: 511: 510: 506: 502: 501:Physics Today 497: 493: 492:path integral 489: 485: 482: 479: 476: 472: 468: 465: 462: 458: 454: 450: 445: 441: 438: 437: 435: 431: 427: 423: 420: 415: 411: 407: 404: 403: 401: 397: 394: 391: 387: 384: 381: 377: 374: 371: 366: 363: 360: 356: 353: 346: 342: 341: 339: 335: 331: 327: 326: 324: 320: 316: 313: 310: 305: 301: 297: 293: 290: 289: 285: 281: 278: 271: 267: 263: 262: 260: 256: 251: 250:Amazon search 247: 246: 244: 240: 237: 234: 230: 226: 223: 208: 204: 203: 201: 197: 196: 194: 190: 185: 184: 182: 178: 177:autobiography 174: 170: 166: 165: 163: 158: 157: 155: 150: 149: 147: 143: 140: 137: 134: 130: 126: 122: 118: 115: 111: 107: 103: 102:User:Kleinert 99: 96: 92: 87: 86: 85: 83: 79: 75: 71: 67: 64: 57: 54: 52: 50: 47: 43: 37: 25: 19: 622: 619: 601: 594: 588: 583: 573: 562:192.35.35.35 538:192.35.35.36 523:192.35.35.34 505:192.35.35.35 500: 483: 474: 466: 439: 425: 421: 409: 405: 395: 385: 375: 364: 354: 345:192.35.35.34 329: 318: 314: 303: 299: 291: 279: 265: 238: 224: 207:192.35.35.34 176: 172: 168: 141: 128: 109: 105: 90: 73: 69: 60: 41: 35: 33: 536:booklist.-- 365:Weak Delete 233:JoaoRicardo 91:strong keep 614:Samaritan 469:. (geesh 200:Megan1967 193:Megan1967 162:Megan1967 146:Megan1967 61:Vanity?-- 496:hydrogen 414:ZayZayEM 370:Marcus22 359:Lectonar 284:Centauri 259:ZayZayEM 181:ZayZayEM 154:ZayZayEM 82:ZayZayEM 63:ZayZayEM 606:up land 589:RaD Man 578:HowardB 530:up land 484:Comment 461:up land 440:Comment 430:Lumidek 396:Comment 380:Lumidek 309:up land 292:Comment 270:Shimeru 243:Shimeru 133:Rossami 121:up land 114:up land 410:vanity 319:Expand 225:Delete 169:vanity 136:(talk) 70:Vanity 478:CSTAR 406:Reply 189:Chonk 95:Alarm 78:Chonk 16:< 608:and 602:Keep 595:talk 584:Keep 574:keep 467:Keep 426:Keep 422:Keep 386:Keep 376:Keep 355:Keep 317:and 315:Keep 280:Keep 239:Keep 175:and 142:Keep 129:else 110:keep 93:. / 72:and 42:KEEP 576:it 266:not 46:Mgm 625:. 434:BM 400:BM 336:. 227:. 171:, 44:. 592:( 48:| 26:)

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
Knowledge (XXG):Votes for deletion/Hagen Kleinert
Mgm

Hagen Kleinert
ZayZayEM

Chonk
ZayZayEM
Alarm
User:Kleinert
up land
up land
Knowledge (XXG):No autobiographies
Rossami
(talk)
Megan1967
ZayZayEM
Megan1967
ZayZayEM
Chonk
Megan1967
Megan1967
192.35.35.34
No auto-biographies
JoaoRicardo
Shimeru
Amazon search
Knowledge (XXG):Criteria for inclusion of biographies
ZayZayEM

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