529:
create a general "people persecuted by religion X" topic is the wrong way of doing it, and extending it to all religions and atheism, while it may seem neutral in theory, will only serve to attract the ire of everyone at once. This topic will turn into an endless edit-war and flame-war, with each side claiming to be absolutely right and the only one backed by historical evidence; a little like what happened with the
81:. Handle persecution according to the religion of the victims, because it's more salient than the religion of the perpetrating regime. Grouping by persecutors is problematic because their motivations are not necessarily religious (the regime may not have an organized religion) and those responsible may actually be a more diverse body of powerful individuals, both in terms of religious and other interests. --
645:, as unsalvageable POV magnet. These topics could in principle be valid, if not entirely encyclopedic, subjects for articles, but realistically we all know they'll become a permanent hotbed of POV feuds and requests for comment. But they should really get voted on as a group rather than individually; having some "persecution by" articles survive but not others would be scandalous. -
718:
and delete the others in the series. These will be magnets for POV (as
Mustafaa said), but that is not the only reason to delete. The real issue here is the precision of the term - "Religious persecution by ____" does that mean persecution by members of that religion against anyone? By the religion
533:
page. Furthermore, like
Michael Snow pointed out, making a "persecution by religion X" topic implies that religion X is a harmonious monolithic group with a single clear agenda; there is no religion on Earth for which that is true. Trying to group all actions of all sects and sub-groups of religion
528:
all three, the template, and everything else related to this project. It's just a bad idea, destined to piss off everyone at the same time. In wiki articles describing specific, documented historical events, I would support having a "religion X persecuted group Y" kind of analysis. But trying to
289:
new ones. Any religious persecution by or of religious groups should be discussed in the articles that concern each religious group. Making up this series does not serve any purpose I can see, except to stir up animosities. If this series is kept, I foresee recriminations and accusations and the
157:
persecution by
Christians is a known fact of history. I was surprised this article is so short, as Christians since Constantine I's reign to the present day have persecuted non-Christians in many different forms. Christians have persecuted Pagans, Jews, Muslims, other denominations of Christianity,
127:
and expand it. In fact, I may take a crack at this personally, and invite any suggestions and help that you as wikipedians can offer. Certainly attrocities have been commited by almost any identifiable religious group, excused by their own belief in a superior ethic or mandate from a preternatural
767:
all articles on persecution by and of particular groups as long as they are factually accurate and verified. The desire not to offend any groups shouldn't stop us from deleting these. The fact that we can have articles on "taboo" and otherwise censored topics is one of the things that makes
681:
As noted, it's clearer when handled under the oppressed party, and is highly prone to POV insertion. Also, it's a bit ad hominem. While a whole group may be persecuted, it is hardly ever the case that a whole group is persecuting. Same for all "persecution by" articles.
592:. Religious persecution by Christians is a legitimate subject. Besides, as a proponent of Christian beliefs I believe this article will prove that the scriptural evidence in favour of persecuting non-Christians is slim and contradictory to main Christian tenets.--
34:
This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for
Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
619:
or delete them all. Persecution is by necessity an action by the powerful against the powerless, and while religion may sometimes provide a reason, it just as often provides an excuse, and equally often has nothing to do with anything. Delete them all.
819:- this should be dealt with by Religious persecution by Roman Catholics, or by Quakers or whatever group... as SlimVirgin said on the Muslim one up for deletion it's a POV magnet. I would have no problem if this was a disambig page called
442:
with BD2412 on this issue. I will make no further contributions to these related article until such time as they are merged. I suggest only editors that can retain a non-perjoritive stance be allowed to work on this material.
556:
and then audit it weekly to remove the cruft, spam, and hate-mail. Sooner or later things will settle down and it will give somewhere for the nuts (and the people who create series of articles about hoax NFL teams) to hand
97:
article may survive VfD. Note that incidents by a group may permit events against minor groups to be listed that otherwise would not be covered. OTOH, this is just a stub, and the whole series needs a lot of work. Also,
102:
is not viable at this time since there is not a community of people willing and able to have it be anything other than an anti-semitic rant. Even so, I would keep this one unless all of its "sister" pages are removed.
515:
as with "Persecution by
Muslims" and "Persecution by Jews." I make this vote a strong one because I have been persecuted by Christians, and understand the need for dispassionate discussion of this topic.
180:
63:
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created as some sort of Point, and it did should not be seen as such. It was created to be part of a series, and not to disrupt. I was relying on others to chip in, but barely anyone helped. --
719:
itself (and under what interpretations)? By any member of the religion against another religion as a whole? Is all of history covered? Is nationalistic persecution the same thing? Would the
731:
persecution by radical
Islamists against non-Muslims? The articles do not have a clear definition, and are likely to be POV disasters that are not informative. --
548:
people have said about POV and edit-wars, if W~paedia is seen as biased, especially towards a "Christians can do no wrong" line, then there will be edit-wars on
459:
Like I said on the other votes, if we keep one and delete another it would ruin the whole point of the series and make
Knowledge (XXG) look extremely biased.
387:, along with the other "Religious persecution by x" articles, all of which appear to be anti-religious editorial rants rather than being encyclopedic. --
216:
for all the whinging
Christians do about being poor and oppressed they are surprisingly good at oppressing those who aren't infected with their virus.
128:
force. In fact, the lack of this kind of behaviour is so exceptional in human society and civilization, it warrants nay it BEGS a separate article "
148:. Knowledge (XXG) does not need to succumb to religious whitewashing. Persecutions by religious organizations are very real events in history. --
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706:: As I voted delete for the article about jews. This kind of article will add nothing to wikipedia but POV debates and trolling.--
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X over millenia under a single "things done by religion X" topic is a gross oversimplification of a very complex situation.
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Though controversial, it's a necessary article, and could be quite informative if expanded, and watched closely for POV.
343:- not only is it a well-recognised historical subject, it is extensive, and therefore merits documentation. Must be kept
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an
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The persecution of any identifiable group by any other group is valid historical reportage. This article needs
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Encyclopedic, not disruptive (we have similar articles for other religions), ergo no real reason to delete.
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POV OR disasters. WP editors have enough problems dealing with prickly subjects as it is, without
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Knowledge (XXG) great. Note: This exact same vote has been made at all similar deletion pages.
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incorrect usage of religious persecution, content is more properly dealt with by other articles.
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171:, in the hope that somebody with knowledge and effort will do a much-needed revision. --
755:, for precisely same reasons I've supported keeping the other articles in this series.
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be religious persecution by
Christians against Jews, or a case of anti-semitism? Would
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as very important, though difficult, historical topic, already touched upon by article
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669:. These "religious persecution by" articles are only going to turn into POV fests.
479:: Allowing separate articles singling out persecutions by different groups is POV.
332:
727:'s murderous rampage be religious persecution by Jews against Muslims? Are the
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although comments about the vigilance needed to maintain NPOV are quite true. ~
74:, which are both currently on VfD. See those discussions for additional debate.
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371:, just like its two partners. If you have a problem with its current state,
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232:. It's just going to need some incredible effort to keep it neutral. --
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I was reading about
Christian warmongering in Lithuania just yesterday.
803:. No idea why this and the other articles were listed for deletion. --
24:
Knowledge (XXG):Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Christians
847:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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atheists, and others throughout their almost 2000 year history.
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that linked to persecution by sects, that seems reasonable.
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it will take vigilance to keep NPOV, but a worthy subject.
281:. This is perhaps a noble idea, but these articles are
130:
Major Religious Groups Who Never Persecuted Other People
132:". That would be a tough one to research. Good luck!
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Don't disrupt Knowledge (XXG) to illustrate a point
857:). No further edits should be made to this page.
780:, controversial, but important historical topic
290:like leading to a dozen RfArs within a month.
8:
552:page, by those who know Christian sinners.
655:Delete, unless substantially revised with
821:Religious persecution by Christian groups
729:July 23, 2005, Sharm el-Sheikh attacks
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
412:Religious persecution by Christians
93:. These are valid themes, and the
58:Religious persecution by Christians
471:, same reason I gave for deleting
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639:Religious persecution by Muslims
477:Religious persecution by Muslims
416:Religious persecution by Muslims
181:Religious persecution by Muslims
95:Religious persecution by Muslims
72:Religious persecution by Muslims
422:) into a single article titled
306:This has potential, I think...
663:El_C 07:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
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643:Religious persecution by Jews
473:Religious persecution by Jews
420:Religious persecution by Jews
185:Religious persecution by Jews
100:Religious persecution by Jews
68:Religious persecution by Jews
38:The result of the debate was
196:\ 10:28, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
434:01:02, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
331:this please it is relevent
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608:15:01, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
544:-- despite what other pro-
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175:08:26, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
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202:Historically relevant. --
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850:Please do not modify it.
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424:Faith-based persecution
308:Thorns Among Our Leaves
123:and a solid effort to
66:. Created to parallel
617:homo homini lupus est
613:Persecution by . . .
611:#REDIRECT all these
179:Vote Pending VFD on
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721:Jedwabne massacre
658:historiographical
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569:(forgot to sign)
531:Armenian Genocide
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22:(Redirected from
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835:. POV magnet. --
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622:Charles P.
571:crazyeddie
349:Jdhowens90
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160:Revolución
684:DNicholls
582:Incognito
461:Heraclius
361:WCFrancis
287:making up
204:malathion
44:Sjakkalle
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757:Babajobu
696:Volatile
647:Mustafaa
493:Almafeta
267:Coercion
254:contribs
48:(Check!)
679:Delete.
345:non-POV
333:Yuckfoo
304:rename.
283:already
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117:Comment
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242:Delete
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79:Delete
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793:-asx-
782:Salsb
708:Revas
557:out--
550:every
518:Xoloz
489:Keep.
408:Merge
292:Tomer
271:Mario
173:Hoary
150:Tokek
16:<
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809:Talk
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377:Shem
357:Keep
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682:--
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107:|
103:--
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393:P
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248:(
222:☺
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26:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.