736:. The technical details of the pager are not important, but the supply chain is. Note, that other weapons (talkie-talkies) were also used in the attack. The key question the article needs to answer is who made the pagers and who is responsible for their safety, Gold Apollo or BAC Consulting. Protecting Gold Apollo from bad publicity is not a reason for deleting the article. If they go bankrupt because of this, they fully deserve it. They had a responsibility to protect their trade mark.
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646:. I can find no mention of "Gold Apollo AR-924," "Gold Apollo AR924" or "Gold Apollo AR" outside of news sources reporting the Israeli bombings. "Gold Apollo pager" returns only results for these news articles, the company's website, patent documents, and similar. The sources currently cited at the article fail the criteria for addressing the article topic "directly," as in the "significant coverage" criteria of
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published"—if you can't answer that, something could be going on. Usually what you get when you pay is precisely lazy "media re-prints of press releases", recycled material from your website, they will take your money and have you write the article for them (and you won't be able to distance yourself from the subject and make something that doesn't look promotional), etc. —
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quality, ultimately. So we wouldn't be doing much of a favor to those entities, as a class, compared to commercial websites, which would on average be represented by much better articles. Now that would be ironic: You try to uplift the non-profit websites but only cause the commercial bloc of competitors to look more professional and established. Still,
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media re-prints of press releases and advertising for the content or site or trivial coverage, such as a brief summary of the nature of the content or the publication of
Internet addresses and site, newspaper articles that simply report the times at which such content is updated or made available, or
1928:
Hi! The
Filmzene.net is a 20 years old non-profit site about soundtracks and movie composers, and I am an editor of it. We have interviews with many famous movies composers (Philip Glass, John Powell, Lisa Gerrard etc.) and I thought the site deserved to have general information about them on EnWiki.
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Many thousands of these devices exploded the other day, injuring, maiming or killing nearly 3000 people. This device is now by far the most notable pager/beeper ever made. This device is at the very center of one of the most dramatic and historic espionage and irregular warfare operations in human
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are inadequate. It's possible to try a thing such as what you have described, but many editors are still able to recognize such promotional efforts. Often, such artiles are suspiciously non-newsworthy as there is no real story to cover; a good question to ask is "why was this published when it was
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Knowledge (XXG), being only an encyclopedia, doesn't have a special affinity toward non-profit human activities. Allowing intrusion of pages on non-notable non-commercial websites would only mean that we would have many more terrible articles on those websites, because notability is a guarantor of
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as a front. This implies that this was a multi-year
Israeli operation, started in 2022 at the latest. This covert operation is distinct from the bloodshed that happened in Lebanon this week. I am redirecting BAC Consulting, to the article, as evidently the fake company had no other purpose than to
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The article for the
Challenge Cup seems maybe to be an important part of the history of football for the region, although severely under-sourced. My recommendation would a redirect to the article, as he is mentioned there and it's pretty much already whats on this article. Your thoughts? Regards,
759:
This is very flawed. The weapon was the explosives. Stuxnet was specific malware that exploited four zero day
Windows vulnerabilities, and the article is about the engineered malware, and not about the model of USB drive it initially infected. But also that argument is off the point. The pager
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No other model of pager produced by the company exists on
Knowledge (XXG), information related to this product should be at most made a small section on the manufacturer's page. Beyond recent events, it is otherwise completely irrelevant to anything other than the company.
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that details how umbrellas have been rebuilt into a murder weapon - but without creating an article on the actual model of umbrella that was modified - exactly because the make and model of the modified implement does not in itself provide it with notability.
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history that is certain to be studied and analyzed for many years to come. Already, numerous reliable sources worldwide are discussing this device in great detail, and it boggles my mind that some editors think that this article should be summarily removed.
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Ironic: Filmzene.net is a non-profit site make by fans (with lots of information and interviews with famous composers), but if we, as editors, had paid for a hidden promotion to a news site, then there would be an article about it on
Knowledge (XXG).
1183:. There are already articles for both the attack and the company who had the pager manufactured. Some information could go there. There are a lot of sources mentioning the pager, but only in the context of the attack. Specific coverage is lacking.
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Is it? What sources do we have? I asked this above and so far we have been presented with no sources to consider. We are looking for significant coverage of the product in multiple reliable independent secondary sources. No amount of
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this particular device, there seems to be no claim to notability outside of this single event, for which we already have an article. Thus, I believe this article fails to establish notability for the topic, and our status as
1001:
the information about the attack is highly important. A separate article on the pager that itself is notable only for the attack prevents a centralized and well organized presentation of the information on these explosions.
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You should only bold one of your keeps. By convention at AfD we only bold our !votes once. Also you have not specified a speedy criterion. I don't think any are eligible. I think you mean you are moving from keep to keep.
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Hi there and thanks for commenting here. Please be assured my deletion nomination is nothing against you or your website. The
English language Knowledge (XXG) does have quite strict rules about notability, see our
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by reliable, independent sources such as news websites. The coverage does not have to be in
English. If you're aware of the existence of those sources please do provide them. Thanks again for your understanding.
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harder for companies and most organizations to pass the notability threshold; the demand that coverage be significant is additionally strict for those topics, precisely for the reason you have described (see
575:, and doesn't appear to warrant a standalone article. Article did not exist prior to the explosions, nor seemingly any reliable sources covering it, failing the "sustained coverage" requirement of NPRODUCT.
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While the particular model of pager is likely to receive a good amount of (temporary) media scrutiny from a few outlets, this will likely be only in the context of the above-mentioned bombings. Although
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I am a deletionist when it comes to mobiles, and similar devices. But as this device was a centre/key point in a major attack, many reliable sources have covered the device significantly (thus meeting
800:. It is becoming evident that the AR924 was not just some random Gold Apollo pager intercepted by Mossad (presumedly), but it was designed and manufactured by the Israelis using the Hungarian company
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These criteria, generally, follow the general notability guideline with a stronger emphasis on quality of the sources to prevent gaming of the rules by marketing and public relations professionals.
2072:(for example, your website could have won a notable award and that might have been enough ... potentially). But the the latter of those two is also highly aware of the problem and explains that
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This Wiki-article has been around for 7 years, but now almost everything was deleted by the editors of
Knowledge (XXG). It is sad. I can't rewrite it, and I can't fight, so delete it.
1689:. If reliable sources, such as academic or news coverage or awards, emerge at a later date, I'd be happy to restore this article to Draft space where those references can be added.
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product is only notable if there are reliable independent secondary sources that significantly discuss the pager (not the attack, but the actual pager). Do we have any such sources?
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The point is that the discussion of this device and the supply chain should be in the main explosion article, which is currently a small fraction of the size that would warrant a
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reveals nothing that would enable editors to add policy-compliant content to the page. The current content should be removed, leaving nothing, ergo the page should be deleted.—
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221:. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
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to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
1052:. The event is a historical first time. This product became important, indeed people looked on Knowledge (XXG) for this article (and it is good that they found it).
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The flaw in this argument is that the exact make and model of pager that was manipulated does not provide justification for an article. Similarly, we have
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816:. In the Stuxnet case the article on the weapon is ten times as long as the article on the attack itself. I believe we will see a similar trend here. --
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834:. I have suggested that it be merged to Gold Apollo AR924. The company is a fake front, established solely to produce the AR924 killer pagers. --
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as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
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890:. The parent article has existed since 2014 and has plenty of room to house this information, which is already there in its essential form.
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But it really is incomplete, because I haven't finished editing it yet. Sorry for the mistake, I understand that you want to delete this.
745:, but no article on the attack itself or the damage it caused. The Stuxnet article focuses on the weapon and on how it was delivered. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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1069:. The device is notable. Whether or not it was notable a week ago is irrelevant. —
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This particular model of pager seems to be notable only in the context of the
2152:: per nomination, this article, while short, has a very promotional tone.
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to
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was a completely non-notable model of pager until this recent news story.
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This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to
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not enough coverage to establish notablity for a standalone article.
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Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Yeah it has been very substantially edited since nomination.
1836:. Created by a single-purpose COI account account as promo.
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Gold Apollo#2024 Israeli tampering and explosions in Lebanon
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1958:) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this
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Highly promotional and not encyclopedic. Completely fails
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the content descriptions in directories or online stores
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He doesn't seem to have any relevance as a search term.
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https://b-oldal.blog.hu/2011/03/19/interju_filmzene_net
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it is notable is good enough. Where are the sources?
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Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by
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571:. Seems only notable within the context of the
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1886:. Nothing salvageable. Fails
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1796:free images
1525:Agree with
1289:free images
1167:WP:NPRODUCT
1136:Sirfurboy🏄
1128:WP:NPRODUCT
1092:Sirfurboy🏄
851:Sirfurboy🏄
836:Petri Krohn
818:Petri Krohn
810:Parham wiki
798:speedy keep
784:Parham wiki
776:Petri Krohn
762:Sirfurboy🏄
747:Petri Krohn
726:Speedy keep
660:WP:NPRODUCT
569:WP:NPRODUCT
531:free images
59:WikiProject
2284:Categories
2238:Categories
2200:Loewstisch
1592:as above.
884:WP:SPINOUT
688:JohnWarosa
635:WP:PRODded
601:Technology
79:Assessment
2263:Templates
2258:Redirects
2220:talk page
2116:Quidditch
2080:Alalch E.
1984:promotion
1919:Alalch E.
1915:WP:BEFORE
1884:WP:ADMASQ
1674:talk page
1624:is fine.
1438:Quidditch
1327:WP:NBASIC
1021:Flegozoff
999:Cullen328
920:Cullen328
888:WP:LENGTH
373:See also:
148:Yesterday
67:Deletions
2268:See also
2222:or in a
2165:contribs
2140:per nom
2058:WP:NCORP
1956:contribs
1858:Websites
1759:View AfD
1676:or in a
1622:Redirect
1605:Redirect
1590:Redirect
1557:Svartner
1527:Redirect
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1413:Svartner
1367:Football
1252:View AfD
1185:Cortador
1004:Lklundin
943:Lklundin
897:Havradim
872:Redirect
664:refer to
597:Products
494:View AfD
229:and add
55:Category
2070:WP:NWEB
1862:Hungary
1802:WP refs
1790:scholar
1732:protect
1727:history
1652:MemeGod
1626:Bearian
1597:Snowman
1581:Snowman
1379:England
1377:, and
1375:Hungary
1371:Austria
1363:Cricket
1295:WP refs
1283:scholar
1225:protect
1220:history
1132:WP:SIRS
1112:danhash
1071:danhash
1054:Sinucep
743:Stuxnet
613:Hungary
611:, and
609:Lebanon
537:WP refs
525:scholar
467:protect
462:history
436:Hungary
300:prodded
196:Hungary
101:Project
71:Cleanup
47:History
43:Outline
38:Hungary
2233:Others
2196:Delete
2150:Delete
2142:Mach61
2138:Delete
2066:WP:GNG
1911:Delete
1892:WP:GNG
1888:WP:NOT
1880:Delete
1834:WP:GNG
1774:Google
1736:delete
1687:delete
1461:Delete
1409:Delete
1325:Fails
1267:Google
1229:delete
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1163:WP:GNG
1088:saying
995:Delete
886:, and
701:Delete
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605:Taiwan
509:Google
471:delete
325:Europe
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219:WP:AFD
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63:Alerts
51:Portal
2106:Music
2053:it is
1913:. My
1817:JSTOR
1778:books
1753:views
1745:watch
1741:links
1594:Giant
1578:Giant
1513:Govvy
1310:JSTOR
1271:books
1246:views
1238:watch
1234:links
706:Andre
552:JSTOR
513:books
488:views
480:watch
476:links
362:watch
261:a bot
144:Today
75:Stubs
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2204:talk
2184:talk
2161:talk
2104:and
2102:Film
2068:and
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2027:talk
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1969:Flzn
1952:talk
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1935:talk
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1900:talk
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1810:FENS
1784:news
1749:logs
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621:talk
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545:FENS
519:news
484:logs
458:talk
454:edit
315:and
271:prod
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1960:AfD
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