Knowledge (XXG) talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers/Archive 98

784:. It is part of the "look and feel" of Knowledge (XXG). There is no reason whatsoever for us to be even tackling the elusive task of determining "most common used" because it isn't relevant. If we follow consistent, systematic rules, that is quite enough. Google results are often useless or deceptive in such cases anyway. Consider the fact that while a search for "kWh" gets 12,200,000 hits, a search for "kWh" but not "kW·h" gets only 610,000 hits. And, like you said, many of those hits on the simplest search are for "kwh" rather than "kWh"; you forgot to mention the "KWH" hits, and you didn't even try to search for "KWHR" which gets hundreds fo thousands of hits. Of course, searching for kW·h will also find people who write it kw/h even though this unit involves a multiplication, and not a division, but "kW·h" and not "kWh" gets 6,620,000 hits, more than 10 times as much as the other way around. 1791:

issue with which I have to cope regularly in the aerospace field in the U.S. In the past week alone I was asked to replace or provide conversions for kg and km to lb and ft or nm in a presentation I am drafting. Interestingly (and sadly IMHO), this request was made to satisfy young engineers as well as the graybeards – and that despite the considerable transition to metric that has been made in the field over the past couple of decades. In any case, requiring a universal change to metric in technical articles would require a massive amount of work on aircraft- and aerospace-related articles that would, ironically, result in the introduction of extensive “false-precision” in the main units of measure. (In working with numbers from

2067:

quarter inch off. For that matter, it’s not always easy to tell when one is dealing with an already converted number in the first place. It turned out that three of the aircraft I had to provide conversions for in my presentation for work were non-UK European aircraft whose original source had been in English units of measure; I would have assumed otherwise. Accordingly, I agree with PMA that conversions of round numbers should be handled with care (although 30 m would seem a better significant-figure conversion of a round 100 ft), although I’m not sure his proposed bullet statement wouldn’t be better placed in the subsection on Conversions.

688:. In fact, that one belongs over at the bugzilla thread, where I'm headed now. On the other hand, typesetters' characters of all kinds become less common every year in persuasive online writing, since so many people are doing their own copyediting these days. (But on the other other hand, how could Knowledge (XXG) possibly do without multiplication dots in technical articles?) All things considered, I wouldn't mind a consensus to use the mid-dot, and if somehow we can do that quickly, it will help us make progress at bugzilla. 6156:

is special to Knowledge (XXG). Decades are not special to Knowledge (XXG). I would find it unfortunate, but acceptable, to keep the page names if people have gotten used to them , as long as the first sentence on the page is honest: "Wikipedians have found it quicker to type "1700s" and easier to fit that into tables than "1700–1709". However, be aware that in formal English and in Knowledge (XXG) mainspace articles, no one uses "1700s" in this sense, so do not write a link as ], always write ] or ]." - Dan

684:. I would love it if someone else indexes the WT:MOSNUM archives, because there are so many words and I wasn't here for most of it. Regarding the · ... the official SI link says to use them, and it would be great if the current bugzilla debate doesn't have to consider hard spaces between units because the "official" position is to use a mid-dot; that would help get us over the hump at bugzilla. There's also a relevant user-interface principle here, the 5603:. There are some (unconfirmed) claims that SI specifically advocates against it. I believe some of you have been through this discussion before, but I haven't got time to find everything that was said in various places and read all of it. Is there one place where we document the rationale behind the decisions that lead to the current MOS? Could somebody help me summarize all discussions, so we have something to point to when the argument pops up again?-- 1562:

and take no interest in incompatible units for the same purpose created by other trades/professions, the metric system started to head in the same balkanized mess as earlier units. SI selected a set of coherent units from the various metric units, which are intended to be the one and only set of units to be used in every trade, every profession, every country, and every language. Everyone who uses non-SI metric units has a medieval guild habit of thought.

42: 5337:

as a geeky practice that no one but mathematicians is likely to understand, with most users experiencing strings like that as a bunch of separate numbers. Just because some people have spent inordinate amounts of time developing elegant templates to do something doesn't mean that doing them makes any sense on WP. If I really did miss an overwheming consensus shift, then we at least need to make the spaces way smaller, like half that size.

3850:. Please check it out. You can see where it’s having problems and maybe that will guide you in other directions. As you will see there, I tried all 100 progressions that end with two-digit groupings from 00–99. I also added 100 progressions with three-digit groupings from 000–099. It shows that numbers ending with two-digit groupings like 25 or three-digit groupings like 026 can be a problem. The patterns are unobvious. Maybe someone who 1332:

the accuracy of the second number as much as the accuracy of the first number; there will be a rounding error, at the least, and you won't be able to extract any fine-grained information from the number of significant digits used. So if the U.S. unit is given first, that makes it less likely that accurate information will travel between other Wikipedias and the English Knowledge (XXG), or travel from or to anyone outside the U.S. - Dan

6575:(despite the one-year offset). Anyone actually looking for the decade would be able to go there straight from the navigation table which appears on all the century pages (once the link had been changed in the template). So those seeking the century click only once; those after the decade (probably a small minority) click twice. No need for a disambiguation page for a term which in the real world is barely ambiguous at all.-- 748:

for me whether it's a good idea to string units together without a mid-dot. I'm hoping for a result from the bugzilla discussion that "uncommon" one- and two-letter words don't wind up at the beginning of a line, and this might mean that we don't have to worry about a no-break space in some cases. Obviously, this is an area that requires careful description before prescription.

1328:

borders, and almost no one who's comfortable with both systems actually prefers the U.S. units. Also, SI is used consistently in science and tech and in many consumer products. I'm just guessing here, but I'd say somewhere between 100 million and 200M people in the U.S., a country of 300M, feel uncomfortable with metric units. That's in a world of 6.7 billion.

4960:

the input to the template. So it would be like {{formatnum|integer|mantissa|accuracy|exponent|unit}}. With an example of use {{formatnum|1000|.0001}} (note the dot). This would allow easier manipulation of the fractional part and double the maximum number of digits. Also, as remarked by above by Tony, a leading explicit "+" sign should be maintained. −

2243:, where the distinction matters, though in that article it looks like someone sloppily applied a Google conversion of the metric value to square international miles as I got the same value as that article now has, including an errant extra significant digit in the converted value. In survey square miles the value would be 16,915,293, not 16,915,360 5764:, ] simply tempts them to click on a link that will take them to a page that 1) typically takes a long time to load, and 2) has almost no relevance to the article they're reading. I don't monitor ] linking to direct my editing efforts. If someone does, now is the time to speak up! In addition, I also agree that continued use of 'As of xxxx' 274:

engineering experience was that μ in writing was common up to the early eighties, but after that μm was generally used. (The computers back then often didn't support Greek letters, and sometimes didn't even support lower-case, so "u" was often substituted for "μ".) The word micron was often spoken long after the written form had become "μm". --

6221:, we will see a pile of people who reasonably thought they were wikilinking to 1700-1799, unless someone has been very diligent (sad that they had to waste the time) at correcting the links. I'm tied up with a pile of wikistuff at the moment, but I'll come back to this fight when I can. "No jargon" is one of the 6 "well-written" criteria at 308:

word "micron" often, still, in 2008. I wouldn't object to prescriptive language; it's certainly true that "micron" has not been in SI for a while, although it continues to be used in other contexts. I'm just saying that I don't think we're going to get wide compliance. This isn't a killer, it's just something to think about. - Dan

5703:. You also claim a couple of prior discussions, but I see no mention of them on that talk page, and therefore they must be somewhat tainted discussions. The people who might be using this should be made aware of the discussion, rather than the people watching MoS pages trying to dictate in a vacuum. Should be mentioned at 3282:

template-based method that was foreseen. Note however, that maybe 95% of the time, values will be a single digit in the integer portion and most of the digits will be in the fractinoal side. It could be that this might be enough of a problem that it can’t be considered as “ready for prime time.” However the

570:

standardization of symbols by the CGPM—and it is still far too often used for grams; I've fixed it in many Knowledge (XXG) articles, yet there are likely still several using it here. The ² character can be used for the "g/m²" variant, but that doesn't work with the negative exponents in the other format.

6341:

I guess I should add, I was just noticing yesterday that people had previously been giving VanTucky a hard time in his RfA for "civility issues" and I thought "oh crap, he's the nicest guy I've met here, I'm in deep, deep trouble". So I guess I should say: my "tinfoil hats" comment was probably less

5336:

Um, since when was there any consensus at all that this weird and user-confusing spacing of long numbers was going to be sanctioned by MOS in the first place? I realize I've been off doing other things for a while but the last time I checked in on that debate, there was a strong majority against it,

4975:

Woodstone, I tend to agree with you; it doesn’t look very promising that anyone—even Zocky—can overcome the fundamental limitations of templates. Perhaps in the future, templates will have access to character-based parser functions. Unless Zocky pulls a rabbit out of the hat on this one, it seems the

4959:

My overall impression here is that the fundamental way of working in the template is too vulnerable. If so many special cases need to be distinguished and remedied, we can never be sure the output will be dependable. You never reacted to my suggestion above to split the integer and fractional part in

3373:

Clearly, given that there are still some problems with some values, I’m withdrawing my proposal that the template be formally made available for general use. Zocky and I both worked hard to proof-check the template and thought it had been thorougly wrung out. I can now see it wasn’t. I’ll continue to

3132:

The effect of this proposed policy, if adopted, is that new editors who don’t know of the template/parser function or how to use it wouldn’t be doing anything “wrong” when they write “3,210.123456”. Existing, hand-entered values like this, which meet the proposed MOSNUM policy, would be considered as

1433:

I don't accept any connection between the variety of English used in an article, and the system of units listed first. Even though a particular variety of English is used in an article, the readership is worldwide, so the units should be metric unless the subject of the article is tied to the U.S. or

1331:

I think the important point here is that this is not a style issue; this is a "free flow of information" issue. The English Knowledge (XXG) has 2.3 million pages, but all of the Wikipedias have 10 million pages. Everyone knows that, if a conversion number is given in parentheses, you can't count on

747:

Thanks kindly, I read the archived discussion. There are 12 million Google hits for "kWh"/"kwh", and almost all of the first 3 pages of hits are in this sense, so it would be very silly for WP:MOSNUM to say "You can't write 'kWh' ". Google hits or something like that would be the way to distinguish

307:

Gerry, I was perhaps a bit sloppy, I didn't read any farther in the article than the second sentence, which is "It is also commonly known as a micron." Thunderbird2, I'm being a little hypocritical with regard to my usual "no original research" position, but my "original research" is that I read the

6155:

The principle here IMO is that English is hard, and we have no right to make it harder than it is by making up words just for Knowledge (XXG), or making up new meanings of words (and 1700s is functioning as a word here, one with a universal meaning), unless we really are talking about something that

6098:

Some folks knew very well, but they figured it was easier to type "1700s", and it fits nicely into certain tables. This doesn't seem that likely to me, because then they'd be apologetic, or at the very least give a helpful explanation of what they're doing, rather than saying "This article is about

3845:

I understood that Gimmetrow. I appreciate that you’re in this with us trying to figure out its current limitations. Thanks. In my last example above, I made a it a point to show that a number that finally didn’t end with 01 would work. Clearly, it has a problem with anything ending in an 01. But the

2660:

a measure of telecommunications traffic density. The erlang is a dimensionless "unit" representing a traffic density of one call-second per second (or one call-hour per hour, etc.). The erlang is sometimes divided into 36 unit calls or 30 EBHC. Also called the traffic unit (TU), the erlang honors A.

976:

It's not less ambiguous. Before a number "c." is either circa or chapter, which will always be determinable by context while after a number there are many things "c." could stand for such as cent, carat, cup, though it too is usually determinable by context. If we don't allow "c." for circa then it

857:

That's part of the reason why consistent, systematic rules are especially important for a collaborative project such as Knowledge (XXG). Don't be saying that people writing about rugby players can add an s to their ins and kgs and lbs, but nobody else can (we don't do so here—our rule applies across

5357:

because some browsers don't support it – you could simply have one template that took a space character and made it smaller for cases where a space really does belong there in the content but looks too big on-screen, and another to use the above pure-CSS spacing trick to make things visually easier

5098:

all that discussion has transpired (and after a near-unanimous consensus has already been achieved)? There were one or two things I might have changed after-the-fact on this template myself but I was disinclined to even head down that path since I am entrusted with shepherding the group’s consensus

5048:

for examples of proper formating in this regard). This oversight was addressed with {{delimitnum}}, which takes care of delimiting both the integer and fractional sides of the significand, and handles uncertainty, and base-ten exponents, and the unit symbol. One-stop shopping for expressing numeric

3944:

I'm not very proficient with template magic, but may I suggest to do it character based instead of math based? That would avoid problems with number of digits and 01 being seen as 1, or groups of 000 being overlooked. It would place restrictions on the input, such as forbidden commas or spaces, but

2607:

If we have a statement in sq miles, we should quote it in square miles; doing otherwise may sweep other disagreements (what are the precise boundaries of Asia? does this include the surface of Lake Baikal?) under the rug. We should convert; and we should spedify whether we mean survey or int. miles

1790:

This seems to me to fairly address the relevant issues. With regard to the “all others”, if we’re recommending “generally metric”, conversion would seem to be superfluous except where non-metric is employed. The added reference to “custom” in the area of scientific and technical topics captures an

1561:

The difference between metric and SI is that anything related to the system started during the French Revolution is metric. However, in part due to relationships between different quantities that were not understood that far back, and the tendency of any trade or profession to create it's own units

1380:

I agree, but the bigger problem with not saying "prefer metric" or "generally metric" (and being very specific about what the exceptions are) is that this conversion will happen in one direction or the other every time a new editor wanders in, which is so much worse. Better to give reasons that are

638:

Well, I probably overlooked it. However, the "combined by muliplication" part is a little confusion, when we are talking here should come under the "combined by division" rules which I looked at on the project page. Sure, it is multiplication by an inverse; that's basically what division is. But

575:

However, even though the still-senseless MOSNUM rules call for non-breaking spaces in many situations where they are not needed, they still fail completely to address this one where if a space is used, it should be a nonbreaking space. It is a hell of a lot more important to keep the unit symbols

6762:

I have been trying to find a definite ruling on this but failing. The MOS says use words for low numbers and provide metric/imperial conversions. The convert template forces numerics and the all words version does not look right to me. The word with a numeric conversion looks good but goes against

6216:

Google is fine. The first 100 hits on 1700s haven't produced any non-Knowledge (XXG) links to decades; I doubt that any of the first 10000 hits would. But wait, it gets worse. People are used to seeing wiki-linked dates around here, because of that damn decision to use links for date preference

6094:

Some folks didn't know that "1700s" never means 1700 to 1709, or at least that meaning wouldn't make any reasonable threshold for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG). As always, I could be wrong, and I'll be willing to consider that if anyone can produce a single dictionary, manual, guidebook, or weekly

5340:

PS: Lest I be thought to be nothing but a nay-sayer today, I will add that I like the fact that the spacing effect (which I hate in this case, because no one writes numbers that way but people in lab coats) is done entirely in CSS and does not touch the content in any way. I think a solution like

2781:

Thanks, I have responded there. On a completely different subject (probably not important enough for its own topic): does anyone object to having Miszabot do archives after 10 days after the last new comment in a section instead of 15? This talk page is running a little long. We've just dropped

1673:

Thanks for the correction MJC. I'm always trying to use shorter sentences, but sometimes it doesn't get the idea across. There are plenty of Americans, including myself, who feel "more comfortable" with U.S. units. When I pull up the daily weather, I would rather see degrees Fahrenheit. What I

1640:

Lastly, Dank55, here's some food for thought that may break your theory above: I am an American scientist and I use both the metric system (at work) and the U.S. customary system (at work and real life). I am "comfortable" using the metric measurements but I "actually prefer" the customary system

893:

I noticed that the abbreviation for circa is given as "ca." or "c." The latter is wrong, as it is the standard abbreviation for century (e.g. "4th c.") If c is used to mean "circa" then it should not be followed by a dot (e.g. c10,000 men). This is confirmed by the supreme authority on the English

2262:

I'd agree that unless otherwise stated the foot can be assumed to be the international foot. Therefore if you see a conversion to miles, square miles, etc. you should expect that this will be the international version. Given that this is the case, why would we convert to US survey acres, square

1179:

has made quite a major shift in terms of the default main units for non-country-related articles; specifically, that the metric system should generally be used (converted, of course, unless there's consensus not to in scientific articles). This is a change that I thoroughly agree with, and I hope

1009:

changing "around 2000" to "ca. 2000" in most articles. I agree that "ca. 1802" is perfectly okay in any history article, and preferred in many of them. For some people who show up to have their articles reviewed, that's the first time they run into a long list of "you can't do this, you must do

5117:

Actually I was referring to an explicit "+" for the whole number. Entering {{delimitnum|+123}} results in "123" without "+" sign. But I now realise the problem can be circumvented by entering +{{delimitnum|123}}. This trick should be added to the description of the template (whenever it comes to

3781:

OK, I thought just showing the problem with 1.01 would be enough illustration, but apparently not given the above examples. The problem can manifest itself in various ways with any group of three starting with a 0. It doesn't just happen with numbers ending in '1', and it's not just a symptom of

2846:

Note that if this section becomes structurally complex, with many different sub-discussions and threads, I will, where necessary to avoid confusion, take the liberty of rearranging things here after-the-fact (after people have responded). However, I will do so in ways that makes it clear who was

2507:

I'm assuming that PM was referring to the difference between the 1901–1964 definition of a litre as "the space occupied by 1 kg of pure water at the temperature of its maximum density under a pressure of 1 atm," which is approximately 0.001000028 m, and the present (and pre-1901) definition of a

2238:

would be one such article as the square mile used for the area of the U.S. is the square survey mile. With 7 significant figures, that does make a difference in the last two digits. 3,794,066 square survey miles versus 3,794,081 square international miles. There are also a few other articles of

2066:

is certainly not “inerrant” in all respects. Its preferential use of metrics even when the original source did not, however, raises the problem of converting an already converted number. For instance, 45 ft 3 in converts to 13.8 m (rounded), which then converts back to 45 ft 3-5/16 in – over a

1407:

It would be simpler to say "when precision matters, use the units given by the source and add a conversion." (Precision doesn't always matter. If we convert "the fleet was about 400 miles west of Brest" into "The fleet was about 750 km west of Brest" we have not actually lost any precision; the

6846:

handle numbers as words have taken place. The feature is not yet available but it is intended that it will be. I too prefer the third one, which would be how the template would do things when the feature is added. The second is against the guideline which states that parenthetical conversion

5947:

Ugh, what nonsense, I hadn't seen that. I'll put it on my to-do list to move the pages, and if they get moved back, take it to AfD. They won't find a dictionary, manual or guide of any kind that supports that meaning of "1700s". Is there any objection to deleting the sentence above? ("Because

5893:

There are two problems with: "Because expressions like the 1700s are ambiguous (referring to a century or a decade), they are best avoided." The first is that if you can find someone who uses, say, the "late 1700s" to mean 1708, I'll eat my hat. There is no ambiguity. The second is that this

5227:

I posted it over on the sandbox. I doubt that a math-based template can do anything about this one. The upcoming character-based magic word should be able to properly digest it. But just to make sure this issue is dealt with, I notified the developer of the magic word than trailing zeros in the

5824:

is the ease of maintenance provided by having the link, which is traceable. If there is consensus to do this at TfD, with a link to the template, more power to all of you; but it would be simpler to save the template and rewrite it (to, say, include a span id, or a link masked with a space) to

4185:

tempted to just declare that this is good to go but knew we would have been making the judgment based largely on what we see in the sandbox. I knew better than that and added all possible combinations I can think of which might cause rounding errors. I’m glad I did too because two-digit groups

3281:

Indeed. The template sometimes has problems beyond twelve digits—particularly if lots of them are in the integer portion of the signficand, which will be a rare occurance indeed. Still, it is a potential problem and certainly is a legitimate issue to discuss. This was a known inadequacy of the

2808:

Quick update: I don't see any startling disagreement among Lightmouse, Kim Bruning and myself at WP:VPP. Kim believes that, contrary to what I said above, WP:BRD does apply, but on the other hand, "Before you hit submit on any edit (especially a BRD edit), you had better be sure of consensus.

569:

a space (g m) or a centered dot (g·m), not run-together as gm (which may well be what the original poster has seen some manufacturers use; that doesn't mean it is acceptable here). The "gm" combination is especially objectionable because that was an acceptable symbol for grams, before the 1948

273:

Actually, Dan's summary of the Micrometre article isn't quite accurate, it says "Some people (especially in astronomy and the semiconductor industry) use the old name micron and/or the solitary symbol µ (both of which were official between 1879 and 1967) to denote a micrometre." My electronics

2711:

Those are rules of the English language, not rules of the International System of units; note that in the German language, for example, the SI units named after people are capitalized: Henry, Watt, whatever. So are the units not named after people, such as the Meter and Gram: all nouns are

1327:

I'm American, but I'm very comfortable with saying "prefer metric". Every country except the U.S. uses SI units for almost everything (with a few exceptions, as Sept points out), and there are lots of people in the U.S. who prefer metric to U.S. units, because there's so much movement across

2136:

There are a lot of people making changes for one of many wrong reasons; I really wouldn't know. One wrong reason that people don't always realize is a wrong reason is: changing MOSNUM because some new guideline (outside Knowledge (XXG)) came into being just this month. There's no rule that

5078:. In my opinion though, the practice of using the plus sign in front of positive exponents should be generally discouraged by official MOSNUM policy unless it is being used in Knowledge (XXG) articles on advanced mathematical concepts where the distinction must be emphasized for some reason. 3378:

as it works damn nicely there. However, I am rather expert in its use and pay particularly close attention to the numbers when I use the template. It clearly can't be put into the hands of general users until it can reliabily work with ≤12 digits. I know Zocky has put so much work in this

4129:

Starting to look good. My 14 digit example above works as well now. To even improve more on size of numbers, would it be an alternative to split the integer and mantissa part into separate arguments? So the template would be like {{formatnum|integer|mantissa|accuracy|exponent|unit}}.

3089:

and/or are not treated as numeric values when pasted into Excel. Values such as these should be irreversibly “upgraded” via use of {{delimitnum}}. “Irreversibly” means that it is impermissible to convert a value that is delimited with {{delimitnum}} to a simple, non-delimited numeric

1725:

Thanks to Gerry for his lucid explanation, and to PMA for directing me to those articles. The fact that UK units are "on the way out" suggests that we should not have bent to the screeching of British old-timers who insisted on the option for either (first it was more constrained for

1091:

It seems I was too hasty then, so I have reverted the change I made. I have seen both myself, but I still prefer ca. over c. On the other hand I agree with Dan that "around 2000" should also be acceptable. What about a preference for either ca. or about over (say) c. or approx.?

2164:

Should we include any guidance on the difference between these two? Granted, one needs to be doing conversions to 6 or more decimal places before encountering any noticeable differences in the metric conversions, but I can see the rare occasion where it would be significant.

2977:

My main purpose here is to alert you all to this parallel effort (a template vs. a parser function) and to let you know it is now available for use. Perhaps now would be a good time to begin discussing a formal MOSNUM policy regarding the use of the template. I propose the

1865:

We should normally convert to US conventional units (at least once even in the most technical of articles), for the sake of intelligibility; there is really is a large pool of readers whose eyes will glaze over at metric values, and another pool who will have to mentally

1502:

Btw Sept, I do support what you just said. We shouldn't start randomly trashing the accuracy or validity of the sources when U.S. units are used, that's a given. I could only support a "gradual push" towards metric for anything that isn't solidly tied to the U.S. - Dan

3878:

One problem (the spurious 09x) is roundoff error in the math used to separate the digits. The other problems appear to be: two digit groups with "0" (07) are evaluated as 7 rather than 70 (so treated as a single digit), and a first group of 000 loses the decimal point.

4999:

10). I’m sure there are different ways to format scientific notation. However, the way it has been implemented here is a very common and exceedingly professional way to do it; both the NIST and BIPM, for instance, format scientific notation the exact same way (see

2358:

That's probably a good idea; although I expect that the effect of mandating it would be that some good soul will "correct" to ] whichever unit has actually been used. A general caution about measurements with more than five significant figures would be helpful;

2132:

There are a lot of people doing the right thing, namely, changing MOSNUM if they perceive that there's a strong consensus of "best" editors on WP doing something different (not gonna define "best" ... nuh uh ... but I'm talking about hundreds of editors, not a

657:

My recollection is that it was a deliberate (and hopefully informed) decision to use a mid-dot rather than a space. I remember the discussion because my browser didn't display the mid-dot correctly. I will trawl through the archives to see what I can find ...

4186:

following 5 thru 9 still suffer from rounding errors (with trailing “9”s). Three and four-digit groups are all good though! To see what I’m talking about, go to the two-digit groupings section (click the underlined “two” link, above), and search on the value

818:

After I said that, I looked around at abbreviations, and saw that we have 3 different sets of guidelines on abbreviations, with little apparent hope of reaching consensus on many issues. I'm thinking that abbreviations is a subject I'm not ready to tackle.

2680:

SI units named after people are uncapitalised, this could explain your intuition. The unit in question, however, is not SI so whether it is to be capitalised is a matter seperate to the capitalisation of SI units. ... but now you mention Rowlett's site ...

1627:, which I believe was the reason for Tony's post, should we consider fully protecting the MOSNUM to force discussions before changes are made? Tony's right. Many changes are hard to keep track for some of us and this should be a slow-to-change document. 1164:

Hey folks: Greg L drew my attention to MOSNUM, a page I've been playing truant from for some time. I see that it has there have been a lot of changes this month, and I'm charged with producing a summary of substantive changes at the end of each month.

4315:

I had to insert a subsection here because this behaviour is very erratic. I have seen it only happening at the beginning of a section at the beginning of a line with nothing following. Probably not important, but you never know what is lurking behind.

2591:

Returning to the international mile, I said before that a conversion is over the top, but I've changed my mind now. When such high precision is required, a conversion to an unambiguous unit (in this case the square kilometre) is the best solution.

2137:

Knowledge (XXG) style rules have to constantly change; recent changes in usage outside Knowledge (XXG) could always change back, so it pays to be a little conservative rather than forcing article writers and reviewers to learn new rules every month.

2973:

As far as I know, it should be extraordinarily simple to convert articles that use Zocky’s template to one that uses the parser function once it becomes available; perhaps just a global search & replace to exchange a pipe (|) for a colon (:).

1756:

As to Tony’s question, I have to agree that there’s no real substantive change aside from the “all others” point, as noted by MJCdetroit. If I were writing it, though, I’d say that a better approach would be (my substantive changes italicized):

1953:

13.8 m (45 ft 3 in). Seems simple enough. However, if you can't trust your source perhaps you should look for a new source. Keep in mind that the guide does state that the "level of precision" of the converted value is dependant on the source

1434:

U.K. If, for example, the subject of an article is beer, which has no ties to any particular country, and isn't necessarily a scientific article, the first unit of measure should be metric, no matter which variety of English it is written in. --

207:

page 155). Micrometre and, in the USA, micrometer are correct. If you don't like the possible confusion between micrometer the instrument and micrometer the unit, write to your congressman. If you don't have a congressman, you're out of luck.

1521:

So, what should the wording be? I am happy with the current Crissov version; "in general" and "where idiom prefers it" seem to neatly cover PMA's points about the use of such expressions as "the four-minute mile" and "poundcake", doesn't it?

1605:

and when in doubt use metric first. We're already having metric units as the preferred/main unit on the majority of articles because of the way that we set up the MOSNUM. So there really isn't a need for a gradual push—we're already doing

329:. Terms like 'micron', 'Centigrade', and 'degrees Kelvin' were once part of SI, but they are not anymore. The continued use of legacy terms is widespread in all sorts of domains and it should not surprise anyone that this happens in SI too. 1306:

In numismatics, for example, precise values are important, and figures in the same field of study have been reported in grams (normally to one decimal point) and in grains. This may be a reason for inconsistency in detailed articles; but

2813:. More so than with other edits, it's important to have those 4 answers ready, because you're likely to have to answer those questions several times to several different people. :-)". Let's argue it in one place at a time, please, at 5788:

I agree with Lightmouse. There will generally be no point in these links ... just more useless links. On the rare occasion where there may be a point, the year (or month & year) can be linked to directly instead of through the

6325:

assuming that meant 1700-1799. This was a random selection; if there's really any doubt what the result would be if I kept going, then I'll keep going. I'd say we have a problem. I'll come back to this when I have time. - Dan

6342:

than civil. "Jargon" just affects me the way that vandalism affects other people; it feels like someone making unnecessary work and spreading disinformation. I totally approve of the fact that "no jargon" is one of the few

6032:

These pages were thought out and discussed years ago when they were first created and more than once since then. Attempts to change them now are unlikely to achieve consensus. They are good reasons they are the way they are.

5093:

was the time for appearance issues like adding a + in front of positive exponents to be raised so all the others could weigh in on the subject. Does it strike either you or Tony that now is the time to try to change things

4976:

template-based version of {{delimitnum}} won’t be something that can be put into the hands of the general editing community. However, it will only be a short time before one of our behind-the-scenes developers delivers a

1571:

As for the difference between U.S. and U.K. customary units, I'm only familiar wiht the U.S. ones. If confronted with U.K. units, I'll look at the SI conversion; U.K. units are on the way out and are not worth learning.

6679:

What are we going to do about this then - shall we go ahead with the changes? We'd better reach consensus with the Years project people first, though, since they were mostly against the change when I proposed it

2712:

capitalized in German. They should be applied to all units named after people; it doesn't matter if they are SI units or not. It is also the quirkiness of the English rules in which a part of a unit which is an

1795:, which employs metrics preferentially and offers conversions to other systems, I am constantly amazed at the amount of seemingly precise metric values are nothing more than the illusory result of conversions of 4922:

Greg, this looks very promising. Pleasing to see that the MOS requirements for the spacing of the × are observed by the template (although the + sign seems to be squashed, but is of course relatively uncommon).

6398:

Tony just said above (but it might get lost in the soup) "Please go ahead, PMA". I was thinking this discussion was dying out here, I was about to go talk on WT:DAB about creating a disambiguation page for

5576:

Perfect, though I'd like to look at converting manually entered values to use of this new template, which would include a much larger number of instances (and would be substancially harder to do correctly)

6729:

I'd prefer to keep working on style guidelines at the moment, but I'll join in if a discussion starts, please let me know. WP:RM has a backlog; it might be better simply to discuss the problems with the

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request, notifying all the pages, and setting up discussion on one of them. This is controversial — it has been controverted here, but it may prove to be consensus all the same. Let's see what happens.

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is important for qualifying statements that date. Whether the {{update after}} template is a useful way to deal with statements that date is something of a separate issue. The point here is whether ]

2267:

metric, I'd say we can safely ignore the fact that an alternative foot exists and convert to the international units—this will apply to (just about) every article on places outside the US (like Asia).

105: 97: 2207:

I believe the U.S. survey foot is the only foot, beside the international foot, still in use. That said, I think foot means international foot unless stated otherwise, and no guidance is necessary. --

2004:

If the source says "30.48 m (100 ft)", it is perfectly trustworthy; merely unwise. The actual measurement they got was one hundred feet; we should treat it as we would any other sourced assertion of

92: 80: 75: 70: 5654: 548:

Re the micron: The biggest remaining problem on Knowledge (XXG) isn't computer monitors, but rather those editors who insist on using it for wool, and who have even created a separate article at

6407:

without knowing Knowledge (XXG)'s ad-hoc definition are going to mean 1700–1799, and that readers will get disinformation (that 1700–1709 is meant) if they follow the link? Why wouldn't we want

3345:

I believe what was occurring is that previous wonked-out examples (for instance, Woodstone’s examples weren’t parsed as he intended), and your 14-digit values left the template on the fritz.

289:

I agree with Gerry Ashton. There is no need for the word "micron" to appear in any WP articles except those relevant to the history of the term. The modern term is micrometre (symbol μm).

639:

yes, I think it should be interpreted as applying, but it would be even stronger if you could show that that was an informed decision involved in the choice between a space and a middot.

225:

I'm going to take your word for that, Gerry, rather than pulling up a PDF with at least 155 pages, but this is a complete surprise to me. American Heritage does say "no longer in use".

3343:

I can see that the template may be too buggy. I noticed that while in preview mode while making my edits, all my examples were working fine but no longer worked after I saved the page.

2635:

for the first time. The article talks of "1 Erlang" and "2 Erlangs", both of which look odd to me. (I would have intuitively written "1 erlang" and "2 erlang"). What do others think?

1457:

should be used where it is idiomatic; doing otherwise is a violation of our duty to communicate.(So should barrels of petroleum, in any variety of English, and for the same reasons.)

576:

from breaking up, than it is to keep from having a line break between the number and the symbol (the latter is something not in the rules of any measurement standards organization).

6099:

the decade 1700CE-1709CE. For the century CE, see 18th century", as if this were perfectly normal usage. Also, we wouldn't have that outrageous sentence that I want to delete above.

916: 1144:

wrong; it would not even make it ambiguous unless it were so placed that it could mean either in context. There are only 26 letters; many abbreviations will have multiple senses.

3203:

There's a limit to significant digits and precision in WPs math magic words. The example in the documentation works with 13 digits, but too many digits will break the template:

2008:

100 ft. Writing {{convert|30.48|m|ftin|abbr=on}} or 30.48 m (100 ft 0 in) is a misreading; we are not bots, we are editors, and we should not pretend to be as stupid as bots.

7016:

That was my feeling as well — someone changed the former to the latter, and I wanted to make sure that there wasn't some reason for spelling out "dollars" that I was missing. —

490:, use the symbol ‘m/s’, not ‘mps’) or use negative exponents (m·s). There should be no more than one slash per compound unit symbol, e.g. ‘kg/(m·s)’, not ‘kg/m/s’ or ‘kg/m·s’). 4988:

simpler process. I heard yesterday from the developer that the magic word is done but he isn’t happy with the look of the code. “Programmers,” you see; they like tight code.

3975:

Unfortunately, we can't make it character-based with a template, because we don't have the appropriate parser functions. I made a general template for this kind of spacing,

21: 118:

Conversation copied from WP:MoS, and closed there. It is sloppy for me to bring this over here without reading the archives, but I'm pressed for time. There's nothing on

5008:). As you can see, both default to omitting the utterly unnecessary + sign in front of positive base-ten exponents. This reality is acknowledged in Knowledge (XXG)’s own 1730:

been no radical change at all. Please bear in mind that I have to write a summary of changes that have occurred to MOSNUM over April, and I'm not looking forward to it.

1726:

fuddy-duddy-speak, but I see that the circumstances in which it may be used have been broadened in the guideline, sadly). And thanks to MJCD for pointing out that there

6899:

handles words. Even though "5" could be a MoS breach there, the template is so handy that I haven't had the heart to tell anyone at the GA level not to use it. - Dan

2508:

litre as exactly 0.001 m. Of course, if we use pre-1964 sources for extremely accurate measurements (I don't think we do this very often!), this might be an issue. --

2966:). Indeed, the effort was not at all trivial; Zocky invested a great deal of effort to get the template bug free. In fact, I created a special proof-checking sandbox 2932:

The advantage of this template is twofold: values with long strings of digits to the right of the decimal marker will 1) now be delimited with thin gaps (so they are

2558:

Actually, not that uncommon; for one thing, our article oversimplifies: it took a decade or two for the ml and the cc to be accepted again as identical in principle.

2263:

miles, etc.? It will be a concern where the original measurement was in survey miles/acres/etc.—care must be taken in converting to metric. However, in conversions

249: 2936:

easier to parse), and 2) the spaces aren’t characters so the values can be copied and pasted into programs like Excel, where they will be treated as true numbers.

4100:

I've fixed two more bugs - the missing leading 0 in 1.01, and the 099 additions that were caused by rounding errors in the parser functions. Any more problems?

2740:

And note especially that, along with the change from an adjective to a noun, the old "degrees Kelvin" with an uppercase K became "kelvins" with a lowercase k.

5312:

In template "rnd" this can be achieved because the number of digits is an explicit parameter. Requiring that in this case would make the template less usable.−

6559:

My previous proposal (which was rejected by everyone, although judging from the above discussion it would probably get consensus here) was to move pages like

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template nor unified with a non-breaking space and can therefore wrap on either side of its times symbol (×), should be “upgraded” via either 1) the use of

464:. You may also find useful ISO and IEC standards and SI is generally compliant with those. The original query was about paper described as either "80 g/m" 5925:

are currently about decades (i.e. 1700-1709) rather than centuries as I would have expected. I had a protracted discussion about it with the Years folks (

1303:

on a given subject in a given national variety, and add examples. In American scientific articles (with field-dependent exceptions), this would be metric.

229:

and Merriam-Webster say that micron is fine. Scientists and engineers still use the word frequently. I'm fairly sure that a MoS rule that says to avoid

3902:

Thanks Gimmetrow. Hopefully all this will assist Zocky. That is, if he isn’t sick to death of this exceedingly complex template. Are you out there Zocky?

188: 2129:

rather than the rule at the top of every policy and guidelines page: "Before editing this page, please make sure that your revision reflects consensus."

780:

It would not be at all silly for us to require kW·h. That is in use outside Knowledge (XXG). But we, like anyone else, have a right to choose our own

363:

I don't believe that any standard exists for inverting units. It seems that the slash is most common, I'd say just be consistant throughout an article.

858:

the board—but because of a couple of persistent editors, we certainly do need more help in cleaning them up—just Google lbs rugby site:en.wikipedia.org

353:

We don't need to cling to outdated terminology. A foot is a body part but if I mention a 100-foot tram, who's going to think it looks like a centipede?

4057:. That's a good workaround for numbers that need more precision than parser functions can handle, but it's awkward, especially for the powers of ten. 6267:

and year articles, linking correctly through the temlate. Most of the rest are overlinks anyway, and have a dab header to get people to the century.

2313:

While I agree an explicit conversion may be over the top, I think it's important to disambiguate in cases like this to the relevant definition (eg

1206:: many articles in American English should not use metric unless about a scientific subject (where it would be idiomatic). For an obvious example, 1005:

Regarding today's edit recommending "ca.", it's not clear what position it's taking on the phrase "around 2000". I would be very uncomfortable at

1674:

meant is that people who have a long-standing attachment to both systems tend to choose metric, because it's in wider use and it's easier. - Dan

360:

when it comes to kelvin is due to the scale's being absolute but there is still the degree Rankine. The MoS is no place for such details though.

3002:

the integer portions of their significand (the digits to the left of the decimal marker) delimited with commas and the decimal marker must be a

5044:

10. I note however, that the {{e}} template doesn’t properly add spaces on each side of the × sign (see the above-linked NIST site, as well as

1623:

was being stated. I would have reverted all of it if the content had changed without discussion, but the message stayed the same. Speaking of

6851:

does things now but not against the rules as I read them for I'd always taken it that this applied to plain numbers rather than measurements.

1061:

American Heritage says "c. or ca" (no period/full stop on the second). Random FAs and GAs from WP:HISTORY turned up one "c.", no "ca." - Dan

1619:

Crissov's edit just changed the order of what was being stated. Except for taking out an "imperial/" and a heading, he didn't really change

680:

Regarding "trawl through the archives" ... keep on trawling, please, and see my suggestion on indexing all style guidelines talk archives at

6479:, and wouldn't it be helpful, for a while, to have a page that explains the two usages in case people have questions about what's up? - Dan 6994:

I suppose the second one is not wrong, but why would you normally bother? The dollar sign is so recognisable and makes for easier reading.

5417:

has, but lacks the spacing. It does have a few added features, which I think make it better. I am looking at copying the spacing code from

4069:

As for the bugs, the missing . is easy to fix, so I'll go and do that now. I'll also look into the other reported bug and get back to you.

233:

will be widely and forcefully ignored by scientists and engineers, at least in 2008. I agree that micrometre/er is completely fine. - Dan

165: 5871: 5841: 6475:

Even if we want to get rid of it (and I do!), wouldn't it be easier to get consensus for a DAB page than for deleting or re-interpreting

3025:) is “encouraged” and is the “preferred” method for delimiting numeric strings with five or more digits in the fractional portion of the 468:

80 gm. As far as I am aware, both forms are equally valid in official terms and are equally valid in Knowledge (XXG) terms. Toss a coin.

4045: 6656: 6652: 5926: 2954:

What Zocky did is quite an accomplishment because other template authors said a function this complex couldn’t properly be done with a

1038:

I'm not so sure we should prefer "ca." to "c." when the Britannica and Oxford DNB links above do not even list ca. as an abbreviation!

133:

one uses °C and °F for Celsius and Fahrenheit, but just K (not °K) for Kelvin; it's because, unlike the other two, the Kelvin scale is

6182:

We disagree, then, on what is possible English. If I come across a reliable statement on the matter, I'll let you know. Unfortunately

5427:

into val (or just transcluding it). I hope that we can merge the two into one template that covers all requirements for values. Since

5186:

The problem is that in such cases the trailing zeroes are significant. Leaving them out changes the meaning of the accuracy indicator.

2814: 2810: 2763: 7026: 6983: 5704: 714: 6090:←Sept, I trust your judgment, so fill me in; it will save everyone's time. There are three cases here; which are we dealing with? 5970:

Please read the discussion first. These are navigation aids, and it may well be most convenient to have them in the same format as

1408:

guess wasn't that precise to begin with. Even there, leaving the original avoids the possibility of mistaken conversion; these are

58: 27: 17: 3137:, which 1) uses non-Excel-pasteable non-breaking spaces, and 2) also improperly leaves single dangling digits (like this example: 5722:

And such discussions as have occurred have included the argument that this is an easy-to-maintain way to make dated assertions.

4018: 1535:

03:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC) BTW, I'm confused/ignorant about the difference between US and imperial units, and metric and SI. We

685: 5614: 1873:

follow suit. Illusions of precision are bad things. I would therefore add to his proposal, which seems quite sound otherwise:

5635: 5139: 7031: 7007: 6988: 6954: 6912: 6872: 6823: 6801: 6786: 6747: 6716: 6689: 6668: 6638: 6616: 6584: 6534: 6492: 6454: 6424: 6385: 6355: 6335: 6276: 6234: 6195: 6165: 6142: 6111: 6076: 6042: 6013: 5983: 5957: 5938: 5915: 5883: 5856: 5834: 5814: 5782: 5750: 5735: 5716: 5693: 5639: 5589: 5570: 5470: 5369: 5321: 5297: 5257: 5239: 5216: 5197: 5153: 5127: 5110: 5056:

has a “thing” for the unnecessary + sign and doesn’t care if he or she is flouting the BIPM and NIST, they can always code

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is considered the “bible” for information on civil and military aircraft; it’s as trusty a source as there is – of course,

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and you'll see that less than one percent used micron, and in fact most of those were references to Micron (the company).

6908: 6743: 6634: 6488: 6420: 2826: 2795: 2150: 1010:

that, WP:MoS says so", and it's going to cause unhelpful friction to tell them they can't use the phrase "around 2000".

900:. It seems to me that, as a public work of reference, Wiki must follow standard abbreviations and not invent its own. 423: 5906:. Indeed, if the 18th century ran from 1701 to 1800, then how else would one describe the period from 1700 to 1799? 2809:

There's actually 4 questions you need to ask yourself before hitting submit. Here's a current discussion about that:

5447:

is done, maybe we can deprecate one or the other name and get a bot to modify all current use of both {tl|val}} and

977:

shouldn't be allowed for century either as "cent." is a standard ans far a less ambiguous abbreviation for century.

158:

of 80gm, both meaning "80 grams per square metre". Does Knowledge (XXG) have any preference for one or the other?

6940: 6933:

I am keeping track. I'll let you know ... I'll try not forget. I'd always taken it that "5 mile" was acceptable.

6858: 5903: 5800: 5556: 5437:

is still "in production", we can make breaking changes there without having to modify large amounts of pages. Once

5287: 3288:

is likely very representative of the kind of article that will be using this and has encountered no difficulties.

2688: 2274: 1877:

If a quantity is exactly a round number of conventional units, express as such and include a conversion to metric.

1172:

At what point does MOS need to be updated to relect these changes? At the moment, a good housecleaning is in order.

374: 49: 1169:

Towards the end of April, it would be good to know whether the changes are stable in terms of the monthly summary.

187:

I've never seen an authoritative statement about why "degree" was dropped from Kelvin. The change was made by the

6346:

style rules that is picked out for special enforcement; it's evil in effect, even if the intention wasn't. - Dan

4105: 4074: 4040: 896: 6321:

1698 and 1697 use templates that define "1700s" as 1700 to 1709. The other 6 articles all put brackets around

5514: 5401: 4333:

It seems to randomly display as 100,000.000 half the time and as 1.0E+5.000 the other half for me (on Safari).

169: 6625:

Can you point me to any previous discussions, Kotniski (or anyone), other than the link you gave above? - Dan

5948:

expressions like the 1700s are ambiguous (referring to a century or a decade), they are best avoided.") - Dan

5899: 5489: 3846:

bugs don’t end there. I just added a over 200 new progressions to my test sandbox in a special section titled

1707:

describe the respective systems rather well. We don't need to write a guide; we have an encyclopedia to hand.

596: 253: 5163:

I think I found a deadly failure of this concept for the template (using arithetic for formatting). Look at:

154:

of such units? For instance, in stationery shops I've seen good-quality paper as having a weight of "80g/m"

6102:

Once again, someone put on a tinfoil hat and declared him/herself King/Queen of the English Language. - Dan

1935: 6063:

The "years ago" argument doesn't impress me at all. 1700s for a decade is bizarre. It should be addressed.

5700: 5531: 1256:, Anderson's recent modification is in italic below, and Crissov's change is bolded; both are fine by me. 161: 5712: 4353:

I created an Excel spreadsheet to help me identify breaks in the progression. Here is a more concise list:

3388:

do rather well now (at least in "Show preview" mode. I’ll see how they look when I click “Save page” here…

2745: 2725: 2670: 2640: 2597: 2466: 2418: 2325: 2226: 2212: 2194: 1577: 1439: 1097: 959: 905: 866: 789: 722: 663: 644: 628: 581: 507: 419: 332:

This debate started because somebody wanted to know what the current SI units are. The answers are at the

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is rather clearer, and much less tendentious, than Gerry Ashton; we should simply link to it. Similarly,

600: 140:

This section ought to include the rule that, to avoid ambiguity, millionths of a metre (μg) are known as

7022: 6979: 6782: 5021: 2072: 1804: 604: 450: 409: 248:

This is the wrong venue for this discussion. The section in question is simply a summary of what is at

5820:

I disagree with Lightmouse. This is not the place to hold this discussion. The benefit of the template

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does impose a cost-benefit text; go see if those benefits (such as they are) are still felt worth it.

5282:

for example) but if there's a magic word in the works, might we not just be happy to hold our breath?

531:"degrees Kelvin" and °K until 1967. It was also "degrees absolute" (°A) in some of the earlier texts. 6712: 6530: 6381: 6272: 6191: 6138: 5979: 5879: 5852: 5830: 5746: 5731: 5689: 4977: 4011: 3018: 2959: 2771: 2665:

That definition suggests that the unit is an erlang (1 E), with plural two erlangs (2 E). Comments?

2613: 2563: 2368: 2110: 2013: 1967: 1893: 1712: 1654: 1594:

I think that Tony may have gotten the "before" part slightly wrong. The last bullet of his "before"—

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In February, there was a discussion about links to ]. This issue still needs resolving. Guidance at

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responding to what. I think this will be necessary to keep this topic organized and understandable

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In my opinion, numbers should never be truncated. Just use whatever digits the editor supplies. −

3106: 3062: 2406: 2316: 2252: 2171: 983: 256:(other than MOS corrections to the accurate summarization of what is actually said at MOSNUM). — 6517:

We don't need a dab page; we need a dab header. There are only two senses (although in fact our

6125:

Some people (and I am one) find use of the 1700s for the decade natural or at least permissible

5864: 5676: 5647: 3029:(the digits to the right of the decimal marker). The use of {{delimitnum}} delimits values like 2661:

K. Erlang (1878-1929), a Danish mathematician who studied the mathematics of telephone networks.

144:, not as "micrometres" or, worse, "micrometers", because a micrometer is a measuring instrument. 5005: 1772:

except where an original source or custom employs another (which should be converted to metric)

1381:

easy to memorize and agree to about which is better in any given article, when possible. - Dan

5708: 4593:

For convenience, I’ve here provided a triple-view of some of the above. They parse as follows:

2941: 2741: 2721: 2666: 2636: 2593: 2462: 2414: 2321: 2222: 2221:

I see. Thanks for the explanation. Caerwine: is there a particular article you have in mind?

2208: 2190: 1573: 1435: 1093: 955: 901: 862: 785: 718: 659: 640: 624: 577: 503: 438: 290: 275: 209: 6600: 5870:

Please vote to keep, delete or amend 'Knowledge (XXG):As_of' as you think best. Please go to

5670:

The phrase 'As of' followed by a date e.g. ]. Such links simply redirect to the date article.

3650:(I note that no one would use this template to delimit a number that doesn’t need delimiting) 1939: 1784:

except where idiom, custom or original source necessitates other usage (converted to metric).

607:;-) Returning to your point about the space as a separator, MOSNUM is not completely silent: 565:

are both permitted, but g m and gm are not." The latter negative exponent notation requires

7017: 6974: 6904: 6893: 6840: 6797: 6778: 6739: 6630: 6484: 6416: 6351: 6331: 6230: 6161: 6107: 5953: 5911: 5361: 5234: 5211: 5148: 5105: 4981: 4948: 4910: 4578: 4339: 4280: 4198: 3919: 3860: 3770: 3627: 3402: 3361: 3294: 3153: 3022: 2963: 2822: 2791: 2146: 2068: 1946: 1800: 1679: 1508: 1386: 1337: 1066: 1015: 824: 753: 693: 487: 446: 405: 313: 259: 238: 204: 6441:"1700s" meaning a decade is just eccentric. We should dispense with it to avoid confusion. 6343: 6222: 5895: 5350: 3316:

There is still a problem with a single digit in the integer portion: {{delimitnum|1.01}} =

2928:{{ template name | significand–delimiting | uncertainty | base–ten exponent | unit symbol}} 2126: 1450: 1006: 442: 7002: 6818: 6708: 6611: 6526: 6449: 6377: 6268: 6264: 6187: 6134: 6071: 6008: 5975: 5875: 5848: 5826: 5742: 5727: 5685: 4931: 4101: 4070: 4004: 3979: 3110: 3052: 2855: 2767: 2609: 2559: 2364: 2106: 2009: 1956: 1889: 1837: 1738: 1708: 1643: 1547: 1530: 1485: 1458: 1413: 1359: 1312: 1288: 1215: 1188: 1145: 1107: 538: 469: 337: 6703: 859: 462:

the official SI website 'Rules and style conventions for expressing values of quantities'

6973:

Is there a stylistic preference between saying "$ 58 million" or "58 million dollars"? —

3324:. This can be fixed, though, as it's not a fundamental limitation (like 13-14 digits). 3093:

Further,numeric equivalencies that can wrap between the value and its unit symbol (e.g.

6945: 6863: 5805: 5774: 5621: 5561: 5313: 5290: 5249: 5189: 5119: 4993:“Also, as remarked by above by Tony, a leading explicit "+" sign should be maintained” 4961: 4572:

The list goes on but if this all gets fixed, I suspect everything after this will too.

4317: 4216:

for all occurrences of these (in both maroon input values and the black output values):

4131: 3946: 3186: 2693: 2279: 1704: 1214:, not 450 grams. I trust an injunction not to violate idiom will be uncontroversial. 924: 379: 4995:, I assume you mean a default + sign should precede positive base-ten exponents (e.g. 4984:

by the same name. As it will use character-based (not math-based) delimiting, it is a

920: 6847:

should be given using unit symbols/abbreviations (where possible). The first is how

6034: 5707:(now empty, red as I create this link, you can use it to start the talk page) also. 5625: 5604: 5579: 5460: 3014: 2955: 2513: 2248: 2235: 2186: 2167: 979: 592: 549: 5894:

guideline is widely and thoroughly ignored, even in articles that have gone through

5205:

Thanks Woodstone. I’ll copy this to the top of the sandbox to ensure it is noticed.

2854:

I thought everyone would be interested to know that another of our regular editors,

486:

When units are combined by division, use a slash to separate the symbols (e.g., for

6934: 6852: 6572: 6518: 5794: 5550: 5441: 5431: 5391: 5378: 5283: 5276: 3394:

FONT. THERE ARE NO SPACES INSERTED BETWEEN BLANK VERTICAL SEPARATORS (|) OR “PIPES”

2682: 2268: 1136:

I would not recognize it lower case. Even if I am exceptional, this would not make

616: 368: 6260: 3180:

renders to me in IE7 like 1,234,567.765 4321 096 × 10 (with spurious 096 inserted)

2413:, so the reader is none the wiser. There needs to be something more than that. 2363:

has the same problem, since two different values can be found in the literature.

6900: 6793: 6735: 6626: 6480: 6412: 6347: 6327: 6226: 6157: 6103: 5949: 5907: 5229: 5206: 5143: 5100: 5016: 4943: 4905: 4899: 4895: 4891: 4887: 4883: 4573: 4334: 4275: 4213: 4193: 4178: 4174: 4169: 4164: 4160: 3914: 3855: 3847: 3765: 3622: 3397: 3356: 3352: 3351:, it worked great there. I don’t know whether to pull this proposal. Please see 3289: 3148: 3026: 2967: 2818: 2787: 2632: 2625: 2142: 1675: 1504: 1382: 1333: 1062: 1011: 820: 749: 689: 309: 234: 57:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2650: 1869:

I find Askari Mark's comments on Jane's to be depressing, but unsurprising; we

6995: 6950: 6868: 6811: 6604: 6442: 6064: 6001: 5810: 5599:

There's been some debate about the use of comma's to delimit large numbers at

5566: 5293: 5228:

significand shouldn’t be truncated if the uncertainty pipe has a value in it.

5070:, just as can currently be done with the existing {{e}} template. You can put 5025: 4924: 3133:

acceptable (though not ideal) and may be irreversibly upgraded. Articles like

3102: 2951:(throughout, with 2 kB of savings) have both been updated with this template. 2698: 2284: 1830: 1731: 1540: 1523: 1474: 1281: 1207: 1181: 612: 384: 226: 6935: 6853: 6564: 5795: 5773:

add more benefit than the cost imposed on readers. I believe they do not.

5741:

An assertion does not require a link. This statement was made in 2008. See?

5551: 5284: 3134: 3086: 3003: 2920:

to accomplish the exact same thing. This is the issue many of us discussed

2683: 2269: 1600:

For other country-related articles, the main units are metric; for example,

369: 191:. If you want to claim this is why, please supply an authoritative citation. 5272:

It's not impossible to overcome this type of thing with templates (look at

5476:

I'm no bot expert but with a combined total of about a dozen articles ...

3375: 3348: 3284: 3057:

Infurtherance of this policy, the fractional portion of significands may

2947: 2860: 2509: 1888:; a design specification had better be correct to a centimeter, however. 6365: 4212:

That was fast. All those have apparently been fixed. Please now search

1354:

is that it can lead to our taking a source which uses customary units,

402: 5921:

Relevantly or not, I discovered not long ago that WP articles such as

5358:

to read without actually inserting any spaces. But I'm rambling... —

5175:

but with current methods would come out like 1.12(25) (my hard coding)

5089:

and everyone was quite pleased with the proposal. It seems to me that

6364:

Ah, I took the first 50, which have a dozen or less false positives:

4028: 2811:

Wikipedia_talk:Ignore_all_rules#Ignoring_the_rules_v._Ignoring_a_rule

3097:), as well as numeric values expressed in scientific notation (e.g. 1473:

I might feel more kindly towards this post if it did not imply that

460:

The rules and conventions for writing inverted SI units is given at

122:

on MOSNUM, or (other than the following) in recent MoS discussions.

28:

Knowledge (XXG) talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)/Archive 98

6568: 6560: 6476: 6408: 6404: 6400: 6369: 6322: 6218: 6130: 5971: 5922: 4942:

Thanks Tony. I’m not trying to be difficult, but what plus sign?

4623:) ✓ The following are all supposed to end with three-digit groups 2458: 2360: 6120:

I don't know; I wasn't there. But I suggest a fourth possibility:

5345:-spacing in a lot of other cases, and would also obviate all the 5081:

Note that every single aspect of this template was debated for a

623:

I interpret that as ruling out g m. Do you read it differently?

524:

and thus not measured in degrees." That is false on both counts:

6734:

people. I'm pretty sure I can get to this within a week. - Dan

2410: 2240: 4000: 3638:

Zocky, Here’s additional examples, most of which doesn’t work:

717:(and subsequent related discussion) is what I was looking for. 5407:

as it was originally known). It has some of the features that

4890:, which displays all possible variations of numbers ending in 4858:) This one is supposed to end with the four-digit group “5436” 3393:

NOTE: THE BELOW MAROON EXAMPLES USE A MONOSPACED <code: -->

3164:

I tried this out in the sandbox and the first attempt failed:

2885: 1270:

Scientific topics—main units metric (unconverted if consensus)

1246:

Scientific topics—main units metric (unconverted if consensus)

36: 6599:

Might be good; please use en dashes for ranges, not hyphens:

5872:

Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany_for_deletion#Knowledge (XXG):As_of

5842:

Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany_for_deletion#Knowledge (XXG):As_of

2720:

capitalized, as in "degrees Celsius" and "degrees Rankine".

333: 326: 5601:

Template talk:ScientificValue#New_.7B.7Bval.7D.7D_convention

4879:) This one is supposed to end with the two-digit group “21” 2762:

I have raised a MOS policy about policy changes question at

1598:

was never in the guide. It has always been something like:

1132:

In my experience, the standard abbreviation for century is

595:

article. I guess it's just a matter of time before we find

6095:

church bulletin that supports a definition of "1700–1709".

5929:), but couldn't convince anyone that it needed changing.-- 4310:

the above result comes out of {{delimitnum|100000.000001}}

1202:

I hope this reading was not Crissov's intent; it violates

5756:

I tend to agree with Lightmouse that the usefulness of ]

3996: 2924:. In a nutshell though, this template parses as follows: 2758:

Using a policy page as a scratchpad to develop a proposal

1267:

UK-related articles: main units either system (converted)

205:

http://www.bipm.org/utils/common/pdf/si_brochure_8_en.pdf

5699:

Certainly not without any mention of this discussion at

1763:

UK-related articles—main units either system (converted)

1358:, and then adding a conversion back to customary units. 1243:

UK-related articles—main units either system (converted)

1240:

US-related articles—main units US (converted to metrics)

433:

Perhaps, but very rarely anymore. Compare the hits for

6889:

If you're keeping track, Jimp, please let us know when

6217:

formatting. I bet if we look at "what links here" for

5539: 5535: 5527: 5519: 5505: 5501: 5493: 5485: 1952:

to convert it. {{convert|13.8|m|ftin|abbr=on}} --: -->

1934:(or some other source) states that the wingspan of the 1596:

All other articles—main units either system (converted)

1249:

All other articles—main units either system (converted)

1176: 1036: 557:

Thunderbird2 is mostly right, when he says: "Therefore

5927:

Knowledge (XXG) Talk:WikiProject Years#Requested moves

3252:

Woodstone's example has 14 digits. A different issue:

2189:. Is there a reason for singling out the survey foot? 534:

The Rankine scale is an absolute scale, and its units

6403:. Are we agreed that most of the people who link to 919:

apparently used c. as an abbreviation for circa, and

5760:

has not been demonstrated. I would emphasize that,

5549:... it may be easier to convert them over manually. 1770:

topics—main units metric (unconverted if consensus)

927:

seems to use it too. Maybe it's not entirely wrong.

252:, so any issues with its advice should be raised at 6521:seems to have crept to 1700-1799); no need to make 5457:and manually coded values to use the new template? 3141:), would formally be considered as “incorrect” and 1299:If I were doing this from scratch, I would suggest 250:

Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (dates and numbers)

5679:. I welcome comment from anyone that has read the 3347:I can’t defend this behavior. As you can see from 3085:) because such text strings can break at line-end 2880:), which was all just for generating numbers like 1760:US-related articles—US units (converted to metric) 3355:, which really exersized the template (I think). 611:When units are combined by multiplication, use a 6308:Daniel's Cove, Newfoundland and Labrador (links) 5182:(for me now mysteriously looking like 1.012(25)) 3913:Let me know if I can be of further assistance. 3762:(this one doesn’t end with an 01 and does work) 619:, use ‘N·m’, not ‘N m’, ‘Nm’, ‘N-m’ or ‘N•m’). 150:: what is the Knowledge (XXG) standard for the 5099:decision through to completion in good faith. 3051:simultaneously retains their functionality as 1799:values from sources using non-metric systems. 418:Micron is used for dot pitch on LCD displays. 6292:←I hit "500" and got for the last few links: 5620:The claims were confirmed BTW. You can check 4012: 3854:understands templates can discern a pattern. 8: 6758:Numbers as words or numerals when converting 5665:I propose adding the following bullet text: 954:, on the grounds that it is less ambiguous? 6411:to be DAB page to explain what's up? - Dan 5387:Just to add to the conversation, I created 5138:All: I moved the proof-checking sandbox to 3121:if the value has 5+ fractional-side digits. 2409:doesn't help, because it just takes you to 2105:Why is MOSNUM being changed so frequently? 502:are both permitted, but g m and gm are not. 6186:is unlikely to be listed in dictionaries. 5085:time by many users—including Tony—here at 4019: 4005: 3997: 520:Original poster says "the Kelvin scale is 189:General Conference on Weights and Measures 5646:Proposal: Deprecate links to and delete 3945:that would not be a problem in my view. − 3729:(this one doesn’t end with a 1 and works) 3596:{{frac|{{delimitnum|1.602176487||–19|}}}} 1484:; perhaps a distinction may be in order. 5341:this would probably be much better than 2624:Capitalisation and pluralisation of the 1539:need to make these distinctions, do we? 6225:, and this is a clear case, IMO. - Dan 5040:omits the preceding + sign and returns 3037:so they have the following appearance: 325:The primary source for SI units is the 5675:Furthermore, I propose that we delete 3985:, which can be used to space anything: 2914:, and now all editors need to code is 55:Do not edit the contents of this page. 5902:, such as the one I'm reviewing now, 4991:In response to your above statement: 4159:All: I created an all new section of 3101:) that were neither created with the 2864:and saw all my cumbersome code (like 2160:Survey foot versus international foot 7: 5705:Category talk:Redirects from "As of" 4882:Most of this data was discovered at 3061:be delimited using either spaces or 2766:. Feel free to read it and comment. 2457:I don't understand the problem with 18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Manual of Style 5002:NIST:Fundamental Physical Constants 3848:Progressions of features and digits 3443:{{delimitnum|12345.6789012||12|Hz}} 3167:{{delimitnum|1234567.7654321| |12}} 2405:I've just realised that specifying 615:to separate the symbols (e.g., for 5847:Please make your statement there. 5660:In general, do not create links to 5353:proper about the inability to use 3457:{{delimitnum|6.02214179|30|23|kg}} 2922:here at Archive #94 of Talk:MOSNUM 2917:{{delimitnum|6.02246479|30|23|kg}} 1926:Sorry, but I don't agree with the 1879:The wing is 100 ft (30.48 m) long. 1356:doing our own conversion to metric 35: 6659:, are the only ones I know of. -- 6133:. They constructed these tables. 3487:{{delimitnum|1.356392733||50|Hz}} 3429:{{delimitnum|12345.6789012||12|}} 3216:{{delimitnum|1579800.29872801}}: 2185:defines 6 different varieties of 137:and thus not measured in degrees. 5657:already has a bullet list titled 5178:or from the current template as 5172:which should lead to 1.1200(25), 5052:Don’t despair though, if a user 4886:in the newly added section with 3583:{{delimitnum|1579800.298728|||}} 3206:{{delimitnum|1579800.2987281}}: 2125:People are incorrectly applying 1264:—US units (converted to metrics) 482:The relevant MOSNUM text reads: 148:Squared and cubic metric-symbols 40: 6657:discussion closely preceding it 4312:showing to me as 1.0E+5.000001 3069:0.187 985 755 2060:Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft 686:Principle of least astonishment 5863:Vote to keep, delete or amend 5140:User:Greg L/Delimitnum sandbox 5074:in these templates, including 5059:{{delimitnum|1.567892||+9|kg}} 3782:numbers too short to delimit. 3504:{{delimitnum|0.45359237|||kg}} 3047:(making them easier to parse) 3010:. Further now, the use of the 2945:article (first paragraph) and 1776:All other articles—main units 1273:All other articles—main units 356:Yes, that there's no need for 1: 6770:five miles (eight kilometres) 3564:{{delimitnum|6.022461342345}} 3474:{{delimitnum|1579800.298728}} 2970:to assist him in his effort. 2716:derived from a personal name 1701:United States customary units 1697:International system of units 1262:, and where idiom requires it 4600:→ live template return / ( 3415:{{delimitnum|12345.6789012}} 2461:though. What's that about? 950:abbreviation for circa than 6127:in the immediate context of 3238:{{delimitnum|0.29872801}}: 3170:with template functioning: 3145:be irreversibly upgraded. 2649:I found this definition at 1625:a lot of changes this month 591:Thanks Gene, I enjoyed the 435:LCD "dot pitch" 2008 micron 7050: 7032:05:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 7008:08:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 6989:17:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC) 6955:23:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 6913:17:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 6873:18:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 6824:15:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 6802:07:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 6787:07:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 6748:20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 6717:19:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 6690:07:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 6669:07:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 6639:03:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 6617:16:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 6585:16:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 6535:23:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 6493:15:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 6455:03:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 6425:02:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 6386:23:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6356:21:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6336:21:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6277:19:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6235:19:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6196:18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6166:18:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6143:18:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6112:18:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6077:14:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 6043:17:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 6014:02:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 5984:17:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 5958:17:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 5939:09:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 5916:21:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC) 5904:Black Moshannon State Park 5884:16:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC) 5857:08:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC) 5835:19:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 5825:address any reservations. 5815:19:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 5783:17:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 5751:11:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 5736:03:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 5717:23:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 5701:Knowledge (XXG) talk:As of 5694:15:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 5640:05:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 5615:10:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 5322:09:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC) 5298:03:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC) 5258:09:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC) 5240:18:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC) 5217:18:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC) 5198:09:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC) 5154:23:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC) 5128:10:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC) 5111:17:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC) 5087:Archive #94 of Talk:MOSNUM 4970:09:14, 17 March 2008 (UTC) 4954:03:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 4937:02:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 4916:00:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 4584:22:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4345:05:25, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 4326:21:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4286:21:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4204:20:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4140:17:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4109:15:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 4078:14:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3955:13:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3925:04:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3886:02:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3866:02:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3789:01:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3776:00:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3633:23:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3408:21:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3367:23:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3331:23:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3300:23:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3269:23:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3228:{{delimitnum|0.2987281}}: 3195:22:47, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3159:22:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3055:-pasteable numeric values. 2910:So he created a template, 2831:18:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 2800:15:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 2776:11:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 2750:23:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 2730:23:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 2703:16:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2675:16:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2645:16:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2631:I've just encountered the 2618:23:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2602:20:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2568:23:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2518:18:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2471:16:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2423:16:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2373:13:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2330:07:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2289:06:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2258:05:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 2231:20:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2217:19:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2199:19:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2177:19:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2155:18:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2115:17:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 2101:Frequent changes to MOSNUM 2077:04:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 2018:15:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 1970:13:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 1898:13:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 1843:08:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 1809:19:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1744:04:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1717:03:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1684:17:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1657:03:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1582:03:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1553:03:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 1513:22:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1494:18:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1467:18:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1444:17:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1422:18:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1391:17:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1368:17:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1342:17:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1321:17:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1294:15:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1224:15:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1194:09:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1154:15:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1116:15:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1102:06:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1071:04:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1045:04:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 1020:18:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC) 989:17:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC) 964:05:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC) 934:00:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC) 910:21:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 871:13:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 829:13:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 794:13:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 758:16:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 727:15:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 698:15:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 668:14:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 649:14:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 633:15:43, 12 April 2008 (UTC) 586:15:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC) 512:14:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC) 478:08:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC) 455:00:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC) 428:22:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 414:21:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 397:Gerry, re the dropping of 389:18:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 346:17:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 318:15:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC) 299:17:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 284:16:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 268:06:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 5590:17:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 5571:17:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 5471:16:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 5370:01:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 4036: 3832:{{delimitnum|1.000002}}: 3826:{{delimitnum|1.000001}}: 3749:{{delimitnum|0.29872821}} 3733:{{delimitnum|0.29872801}} 3548:{{delimitnum|6.02246134}} 3255:{{delimitnum|1.000001}}: 2608:if that is determinable. 1449:Knowledge (XXG) is still 1177:Crissov's edit on 6 April 897:Oxford English Dictionary 243:20:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 218:17:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 174:17:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 6317:Eliphalet Chapin (links) 5515:Template:ScientificValue 5168:{{delimitnum|1.1200|25}} 5020:articles as well as the 5006:SI Brochure, Section 3.1 4888:3960 possible variations 4165:3960 possible variations 3817:{{delimitnum|1.00102}}: 3808:{{delimitnum|1.00101}}: 3799:{{delimitnum|1.00001}}: 3534:{{delimitnum|6.0224613}} 3320:, {{delimitnum|1.001}}: 2875: 10<sup: --> 682:WT:MoS#Proposal to index 597:micron (paper thickness) 6302:Wilisoni Malani (links) 4602:at time of this posting 3793:{{delimitnum|1.0001}}: 3521:{{delimitnum|6.022461}} 3396:(adviso added later by 3113:template, or 3) use of 2839:{{delimitnum}} template 861:to see how bad it is). 439:LCD "dot pitch" 2008 mm 6792:IMO, the bottom one. 6305:Reiner Protsch (links) 6000:Please go ahead, PMA. 5622:NIST - Grouping Digits 3719:{{delimitnum|1.11232}} 3706:{{delimitnum|1.11231}} 3693:{{delimitnum|1.11201}} 3680:{{delimitnum|1.11001}} 3667:{{delimitnum|1.10001}} 3654:{{delimitnum|1.00001}} 3384:Show below is what it 2958:and really required a 1453:of linguistic reform. 1106:No thanks; see below. 6836:Discussion of having 6314:1697 in music (links) 6311:1698 in music (links) 6263:. The kmajority are 5865:Knowledge (XXG):As_of 5677:Knowledge (XXG):As of 5648:Knowledge (XXG):As of 2991:current MOSNUM policy 1938:is 13.8 metres, then 1602:37 kilometres (23 mi) 1180:that it will remain. 53:of past discussions. 6763:the use words rule. 6296:Castledawson (links) 2968:here on my talk page 2239:large areas such as 1942:that figure and use 1301:whichever is natural 443:LCD "dot pitch" 2008 6368:isn't; the link to 5822:to the encyclopedia 5681:previous discussion 5481:Template:Delimitnum 5011:Scientific notation 3907:*crickets chirping* 3643:{{delimitnum|1.01}} 3107:non-breaking spaces 3063:non-breaking spaces 2782:down to 10 days on 2183:Conversion of units 1641:for work and play.— 1260:US-related articles 1232:My reading is that 601:micron (wavelength) 541:with the symbol °R. 334:official SI website 327:official SI website 6777:Any suggestions? 5840:Discussion now at 5793:set of redirects. 5046:SI Brochure: 5.3.5 5028:templates. Coding 4884:Delimitnum sandbox 4161:Delimitnum sandbox 2867:6.022<span: --> 2407:international mile 942:Can we agree that 605:micron (font size) 203:are obsolete (See 114:Micron, micrometre 7030: 6987: 6949: 6867: 6773:five miles (8 km) 6715: 6653:link I gave above 6533: 6384: 6275: 6194: 6141: 5982: 5833: 5809: 5734: 5565: 4567:0.125624–0.125631 4561:0.125596–0.125603 4543:0.125541–0.125547 4507:0.125431–0.125436 4501:0.125402–0.125408 4495:0.125375–0.125381 4453:0.125263–0.125271 4399:0.125101–0.125104 4270:0.125735–0.125741 4264:0.125629–0.125631 4258:0.125601–0.125603 4181:groupings. I was 4054: 4053: 3911: 2993:, numeric values 2942:Natural logarithm 2908: 2907: 2697: 2616: 2566: 2371: 2283: 2255: 2174: 2120:Possible answers: 2075: 2016: 1896: 1807: 1715: 1492: 1480:be edited to say 1465: 1420: 1366: 1350:One problem with 1319: 1222: 1152: 1114: 986: 889:Circa and century 420:DavidPaulHamilton 401:with Kelvin, see 383: 176: 164:comment added by 111: 110: 65: 64: 59:current talk page 26:(Redirected from 22:Dates and numbers 7041: 7020: 7005: 7000: 6977: 6953: 6948: 6943: 6938: 6898: 6892: 6871: 6866: 6861: 6856: 6850: 6845: 6839: 6821: 6816: 6711: 6614: 6609: 6529: 6452: 6447: 6380: 6299:Caladium (links) 6271: 6190: 6137: 6074: 6069: 6011: 6006: 5978: 5829: 5813: 5808: 5803: 5798: 5730: 5607: 5582: 5569: 5564: 5559: 5554: 5544: 5543: 5510: 5509: 5463: 5456: 5450: 5446: 5440: 5436: 5430: 5426: 5420: 5416: 5410: 5406: 5400: 5396: 5390: 5383: 5377: 5364: 5356: 5344: 5296: 5281: 5275: 5181: 5169: 5118:releasing it). − 5077: 5069: 5067: 5061: 5060: 5043: 5039: 5038: 5033: 5032: 5022:{{SI multiples}} 4998: 4934: 4929: 4878: 4874: 4873: 4870: 4864: 4863: 4857: 4853: 4851: 4845: 4844: 4838: 4834: 4833: 4827: 4826: 4820: 4816: 4815: 4809: 4808: 4802: 4798: 4797: 4791: 4790: 4784: 4780: 4779: 4773: 4772: 4766: 4762: 4761: 4755: 4754: 4748: 4744: 4743: 4737: 4736: 4730: 4726: 4725: 4719: 4718: 4712: 4708: 4707: 4701: 4700: 4694: 4690: 4689: 4683: 4682: 4676: 4672: 4671: 4665: 4664: 4658: 4654: 4653: 4647: 4646: 4640: 4636: 4635: 4629: 4628: 4622: 4618: 4617: 4611: 4610: 4603: 4599: 4598: 4569: 4568: 4563: 4562: 4557: 4556: 4551: 4550: 4545: 4544: 4539: 4538: 4533: 4532: 4527: 4526: 4521: 4520: 4515: 4514: 4509: 4508: 4503: 4502: 4497: 4496: 4491: 4490: 4485: 4484: 4479: 4478: 4473: 4472: 4467: 4466: 4461: 4460: 4455: 4454: 4449: 4448: 4443: 4442: 4437: 4436: 4431: 4430: 4425: 4424: 4419: 4418: 4413: 4412: 4407: 4406: 4401: 4400: 4395: 4394: 4389: 4388: 4383: 4382: 4377: 4376: 4371: 4370: 4365: 4364: 4359: 4358: 4302: 4301: 4272: 4271: 4266: 4265: 4260: 4259: 4254: 4253: 4248: 4247: 4240: 4239: 4234: 4233: 4228: 4227: 4222: 4221: 4191: 4190: 4021: 4014: 4007: 3998: 3984: 3978: 3905: 3838: 3837: 3829: 3823: 3822: 3814: 3813: 3805: 3804: 3796: 3761: 3760: 3757: 3751: 3750: 3745: 3744: 3741: 3735: 3734: 3728: 3727: 3721: 3720: 3715: 3714: 3708: 3707: 3702: 3701: 3695: 3694: 3689: 3688: 3682: 3681: 3676: 3675: 3669: 3668: 3663: 3662: 3656: 3655: 3649: 3645: 3644: 3617: 3616: 3615: 3613: 3610: 3603: 3598: 3597: 3592: 3591: 3585: 3584: 3579: 3578: 3575: 3572: 3566: 3565: 3560: 3559: 3556: 3550: 3549: 3544: 3542: 3536: 3535: 3530: 3529: 3523: 3522: 3517: 3515: 3512: 3506: 3505: 3500: 3498: 3495: 3489: 3488: 3483: 3482: 3476: 3475: 3470: 3468: 3465: 3459: 3458: 3453: 3451: 3445: 3444: 3439: 3437: 3431: 3430: 3425: 3423: 3417: 3416: 3323: 3319: 3258: 3247: 3246: 3243: 3235: 3233: 3225: 3224: 3221: 3213: 3211: 3177: 3175: 3109:, 2) use of the 3079: 3078: 3071: 3070: 3045: 3044: 3035: 3034: 3001: 2919: 2918: 2901: 2899: 2896: 2886: 2879: 2878: 2872: 2869:79</span: --> 2868:464<span: --> 2815:the village pump 2764:the village pump 2701: 2696: 2691: 2686: 2612: 2562: 2367: 2287: 2282: 2277: 2272: 2253: 2251: 2172: 2170: 2071: 2012: 1966: 1963: 1960: 1951: 1945: 1892: 1840: 1835: 1803: 1778:generally metric 1741: 1736: 1711: 1653: 1650: 1647: 1550: 1545: 1533: 1528: 1488: 1461: 1416: 1362: 1315: 1311:may cover this. 1291: 1286: 1275:generally metric 1218: 1191: 1186: 1148: 1110: 984: 982: 488:metre per second 387: 382: 377: 372: 262: 159: 129:doesn't explain 89: 67: 66: 44: 43: 37: 31: 7049: 7048: 7044: 7043: 7042: 7040: 7039: 7038: 7003: 6996: 6971: 6944: 6939: 6896: 6890: 6862: 6857: 6848: 6843: 6837: 6819: 6812: 6760: 6709:Septentrionalis 6612: 6605: 6527:Septentrionalis 6450: 6443: 6378:Septentrionalis 6269:Septentrionalis 6265:List of decades 6188:Septentrionalis 6135:Septentrionalis 6072: 6065: 6009: 6002: 5976:Septentrionalis 5891: 5868: 5827:Septentrionalis 5804: 5799: 5728:Septentrionalis 5651: 5605: 5597: 5594: 5580: 5560: 5555: 5517: 5513: 5483: 5479: 5461: 5454: 5448: 5444: 5438: 5434: 5428: 5424: 5418: 5414: 5408: 5404: 5402:ScientificValue 5398: 5394: 5388: 5385: 5381: 5375: 5360: 5354: 5342: 5334: 5279: 5273: 5179: 5167: 5161: 5136: 5075: 5065: 5063: 5058: 5057: 5041: 5036: 5035: 5030: 5029: 4996: 4978:parser function 4932: 4925: 4876: 4871: 4868: 4866: 4861: 4860: 4855: 4849: 4847: 4842: 4841: 4836: 4831: 4829: 4824: 4823: 4818: 4813: 4811: 4806: 4805: 4800: 4795: 4793: 4788: 4787: 4782: 4777: 4775: 4770: 4769: 4764: 4759: 4757: 4752: 4751: 4746: 4741: 4739: 4734: 4733: 4728: 4723: 4721: 4716: 4715: 4710: 4705: 4703: 4698: 4697: 4692: 4687: 4685: 4680: 4679: 4674: 4669: 4667: 4662: 4661: 4656: 4651: 4649: 4644: 4643: 4638: 4633: 4631: 4626: 4625: 4620: 4615: 4613: 4608: 4607: 4601: 4596: 4595: 4566: 4565: 4560: 4559: 4554: 4553: 4548: 4547: 4542: 4541: 4536: 4535: 4530: 4529: 4524: 4523: 4518: 4517: 4512: 4511: 4506: 4505: 4500: 4499: 4494: 4493: 4488: 4487: 4482: 4481: 4476: 4475: 4470: 4469: 4464: 4463: 4458: 4457: 4452: 4451: 4446: 4445: 4440: 4439: 4434: 4433: 4428: 4427: 4422: 4421: 4416: 4415: 4410: 4409: 4404: 4403: 4398: 4397: 4392: 4391: 4386: 4385: 4380: 4379: 4374: 4373: 4368: 4367: 4362: 4361: 4356: 4355: 4308: 4299: 4297: 4295: 4269: 4268: 4263: 4262: 4257: 4256: 4251: 4250: 4245: 4244: 4237: 4236: 4231: 4230: 4225: 4224: 4219: 4218: 4188: 4187: 4055: 4050: 4032: 4025: 3982: 3976: 3835: 3833: 3827: 3820: 3818: 3811: 3809: 3802: 3800: 3794: 3758: 3755: 3753: 3748: 3747: 3742: 3739: 3737: 3732: 3731: 3725: 3723: 3718: 3717: 3712: 3710: 3705: 3704: 3699: 3697: 3692: 3691: 3686: 3684: 3679: 3678: 3673: 3671: 3666: 3665: 3660: 3658: 3653: 3652: 3647: 3642: 3641: 3611: 3608: 3606: 3605: 3601: 3600: 3595: 3594: 3589: 3587: 3582: 3581: 3576: 3573: 3570: 3568: 3563: 3562: 3557: 3554: 3552: 3547: 3546: 3540: 3538: 3533: 3532: 3527: 3525: 3520: 3519: 3513: 3510: 3508: 3503: 3502: 3496: 3493: 3491: 3486: 3485: 3480: 3478: 3473: 3472: 3466: 3463: 3461: 3456: 3455: 3449: 3447: 3442: 3441: 3435: 3433: 3428: 3427: 3421: 3419: 3414: 3413: 3321: 3317: 3256: 3244: 3241: 3239: 3231: 3229: 3222: 3219: 3217: 3209: 3207: 3173: 3171: 3139:0.187 985 755 2 3076: 3075: 3068: 3067: 3042: 3040: 3032: 3031: 3019:parser function 2999: 2960:parser function 2916: 2915: 2897: 2894: 2892: 2876:23</sup: --> 2874: 2866: 2865: 2841: 2760: 2692: 2687: 2629: 2610:Septentrionalis 2560:Septentrionalis 2365:Septentrionalis 2320:), or similar. 2278: 2273: 2247: 2166: 2162: 2103: 2010:Septentrionalis 1961: 1958: 1955: 1949: 1943: 1890:Septentrionalis 1838: 1831: 1739: 1732: 1709:Septentrionalis 1648: 1645: 1642: 1548: 1541: 1531: 1524: 1486:Septentrionalis 1459:Septentrionalis 1414:Septentrionalis 1360:Septentrionalis 1313:Septentrionalis 1289: 1282: 1216:Septentrionalis 1189: 1182: 1162: 1146:Septentrionalis 1108:Septentrionalis 978: 917:1911 Britannica 891: 539:degrees Rankine 378: 373: 258: 116: 85: 41: 33: 32: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 7047: 7045: 7037: 7036: 7035: 7034: 7011: 7010: 6970: 6967: 6966: 6965: 6964: 6963: 6962: 6961: 6960: 6959: 6958: 6957: 6922: 6921: 6920: 6919: 6918: 6917: 6916: 6915: 6880: 6879: 6878: 6877: 6876: 6875: 6829: 6828: 6827: 6826: 6805: 6804: 6775: 6774: 6771: 6768: 6767:5 miles (8 km) 6759: 6756: 6755: 6754: 6753: 6752: 6751: 6750: 6722: 6721: 6720: 6719: 6693: 6692: 6676: 6675: 6674: 6673: 6672: 6671: 6644: 6643: 6642: 6641: 6620: 6619: 6596: 6595: 6594: 6593: 6592: 6591: 6590: 6589: 6588: 6587: 6571:a redirect to 6548: 6547: 6546: 6545: 6544: 6543: 6542: 6541: 6540: 6539: 6538: 6537: 6504: 6503: 6502: 6501: 6500: 6499: 6498: 6497: 6496: 6495: 6464: 6463: 6462: 6461: 6460: 6459: 6458: 6457: 6432: 6431: 6430: 6429: 6428: 6427: 6391: 6390: 6389: 6388: 6359: 6358: 6319: 6318: 6315: 6312: 6309: 6306: 6303: 6300: 6297: 6290: 6289: 6288: 6287: 6286: 6285: 6284: 6283: 6282: 6281: 6280: 6279: 6246: 6245: 6244: 6243: 6242: 6241: 6240: 6239: 6238: 6237: 6205: 6204: 6203: 6202: 6201: 6200: 6199: 6198: 6173: 6172: 6171: 6170: 6169: 6168: 6148: 6147: 6146: 6145: 6122: 6121: 6115: 6114: 6100: 6096: 6088: 6087: 6086: 6085: 6084: 6083: 6082: 6081: 6080: 6079: 6052: 6051: 6050: 6049: 6048: 6047: 6046: 6045: 6023: 6022: 6021: 6020: 6019: 6018: 6017: 6016: 5991: 5990: 5989: 5988: 5987: 5986: 5963: 5962: 5961: 5960: 5942: 5941: 5900:WP:Peer review 5890: 5887: 5874: 5867: 5861: 5860: 5859: 5845: 5844: 5818: 5817: 5754: 5753: 5720: 5719: 5684: 5673: 5672: 5658: 5650: 5644: 5643: 5642: 5596: 5593: 5577: 5574: 5573: 5547: 5546: 5545: 5511: 5458: 5384: 5373: 5333: 5330: 5329: 5328: 5327: 5326: 5325: 5324: 5305: 5304: 5303: 5302: 5301: 5300: 5265: 5264: 5263: 5262: 5261: 5260: 5243: 5242: 5222: 5221: 5220: 5219: 5187: 5184: 5183: 5176: 5173: 5170: 5160: 5159:Deadly failure 5157: 5135: 5132: 5131: 5130: 5114: 5113: 5080: 5079: 5051: 5050: 5049:equivalencies. 4990: 4989: 4957: 4956: 4920: 4919: 4859: 4840: 4822: 4804: 4786: 4768: 4750: 4732: 4714: 4696: 4678: 4660: 4642: 4624: 4590: 4589: 4587: 4586: 4564: 4558: 4552: 4546: 4540: 4534: 4528: 4522: 4516: 4510: 4504: 4498: 4492: 4486: 4480: 4474: 4468: 4462: 4456: 4450: 4444: 4438: 4432: 4426: 4420: 4414: 4408: 4402: 4396: 4390: 4384: 4378: 4372: 4366: 4360: 4350: 4349: 4348: 4347: 4311: 4307: 4304: 4294: 4291: 4290: 4289: 4267: 4261: 4255: 4249: 4243: 4241: 4235: 4229: 4223: 4209: 4208: 4207: 4206: 4156: 4155: 4149: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4144: 4143: 4142: 4120: 4119: 4118: 4117: 4116: 4115: 4114: 4113: 4112: 4111: 4106:picture popups 4089: 4088: 4087: 4086: 4085: 4084: 4083: 4082: 4081: 4080: 4075:picture popups 4052: 4051: 4049: 4048: 4043: 4037: 4034: 4033: 4026: 4024: 4023: 4016: 4009: 4001: 3995: 3994: 3993: 3992: 3991: 3990: 3989: 3988: 3987: 3986: 3964: 3963: 3962: 3961: 3960: 3959: 3958: 3957: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3932: 3931: 3930: 3929: 3928: 3910: 3909: 3904: 3903: 3893: 3892: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3871: 3870: 3869: 3868: 3840: 3839: 3830: 3824: 3815: 3806: 3797: 3791: 3746: 3730: 3716: 3703: 3690: 3677: 3664: 3651: 3636: 3635: 3618: 3593: 3580: 3561: 3545: 3531: 3518: 3501: 3484: 3471: 3454: 3440: 3426: 3390: 3389: 3381: 3380: 3370: 3369: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3307: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3302: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3236: 3226: 3214: 3198: 3197: 3183: 3182: 3181: 3178: 3168: 3130: 3129: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3125: 3123: 3119:exclusively so 3115:{{delimitnum}} 3012:{{delimitnum}} 2987: 2986: 2980: 2979: 2912:{{delimitnum}} 2906: 2905: 2902: 2890: 2883: 2871:(30)  2870:</span: --> 2852: 2851: 2840: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2803: 2802: 2759: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2706: 2705: 2663: 2662: 2651:Rowlett's site 2628: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2589: 2588: 2587: 2586: 2585: 2584: 2583: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2578: 2577: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2571: 2570: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2529: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2488: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2440: 2439: 2438: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2432: 2431: 2430: 2429: 2428: 2427: 2426: 2425: 2388: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2379: 2378: 2377: 2376: 2375: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2335: 2334: 2333: 2332: 2300: 2299: 2298: 2297: 2296: 2295: 2294: 2293: 2292: 2291: 2202: 2201: 2161: 2158: 2139: 2138: 2134: 2130: 2122: 2121: 2102: 2099: 2098: 2097: 2096: 2095: 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2086: 2085: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2081: 2080: 2079: 2037: 2036: 2035: 2034: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2026: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2020: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1972: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1900: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1867: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1849: 1848: 1847: 1846: 1845: 1825:Seems good to 1816: 1815: 1814: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1774: 1764: 1761: 1749: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1720: 1719: 1705:Imperial units 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1659: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1612: 1611: 1610: 1609: 1608: 1607: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1566: 1565: 1564: 1563: 1556: 1555: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1515: 1497: 1496: 1470: 1469: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1428: 1427: 1426: 1425: 1424: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1373: 1372: 1371: 1370: 1345: 1344: 1329: 1324: 1323: 1304: 1279: 1278: 1271: 1268: 1265: 1251: 1250: 1247: 1244: 1241: 1231: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1197: 1196: 1173: 1170: 1161: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1029: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 996: 995: 994: 993: 992: 991: 969: 968: 967: 966: 937: 936: 894:language, the 890: 887: 886: 885: 884: 883: 882: 881: 880: 879: 878: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 842: 841: 840: 839: 838: 837: 836: 835: 834: 833: 832: 831: 805: 804: 803: 802: 801: 800: 799: 798: 797: 796: 769: 768: 767: 766: 765: 764: 763: 762: 761: 760: 736: 735: 734: 733: 732: 731: 730: 729: 705: 704: 703: 702: 701: 700: 673: 672: 671: 670: 652: 651: 621: 620: 589: 588: 572: 571: 554: 553: 545: 544: 543: 542: 532: 518: 492: 491: 458: 457: 392: 391: 366: 365: 364: 361: 354: 323: 322: 321: 320: 302: 301: 271: 270: 223: 222: 221: 220: 195: 194: 193: 192: 178: 177: 166:217.171.129.75 145: 138: 115: 112: 109: 108: 103: 100: 95: 90: 83: 78: 73: 63: 62: 45: 34: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 7046: 7033: 7028: 7024: 7019: 7015: 7014: 7013: 7012: 7009: 7006: 7001: 6999: 6993: 6992: 6991: 6990: 6985: 6981: 6976: 6968: 6956: 6952: 6947: 6942: 6937: 6932: 6931: 6930: 6929: 6928: 6927: 6926: 6925: 6924: 6923: 6914: 6910: 6906: 6902: 6895: 6888: 6887: 6886: 6885: 6884: 6883: 6882: 6881: 6874: 6870: 6865: 6860: 6855: 6842: 6835: 6834: 6833: 6832: 6831: 6830: 6825: 6822: 6817: 6815: 6809: 6808: 6807: 6806: 6803: 6799: 6795: 6791: 6790: 6789: 6788: 6784: 6780: 6772: 6769: 6766: 6765: 6764: 6757: 6749: 6745: 6741: 6737: 6733: 6728: 6727: 6726: 6725: 6724: 6723: 6718: 6714: 6710: 6705: 6701: 6697: 6696: 6695: 6694: 6691: 6687: 6683: 6678: 6677: 6670: 6666: 6662: 6658: 6654: 6650: 6649: 6648: 6647: 6646: 6645: 6640: 6636: 6632: 6628: 6624: 6623: 6622: 6621: 6618: 6615: 6610: 6608: 6602: 6598: 6597: 6586: 6582: 6578: 6574: 6570: 6566: 6562: 6558: 6557: 6556: 6555: 6554: 6553: 6552: 6551: 6550: 6549: 6536: 6532: 6528: 6525:click twice. 6524: 6520: 6516: 6515: 6514: 6513: 6512: 6511: 6510: 6509: 6508: 6507: 6506: 6505: 6494: 6490: 6486: 6482: 6478: 6474: 6473: 6472: 6471: 6470: 6469: 6468: 6467: 6466: 6465: 6456: 6453: 6448: 6446: 6440: 6439: 6438: 6437: 6436: 6435: 6434: 6433: 6426: 6422: 6418: 6414: 6410: 6406: 6402: 6397: 6396: 6395: 6394: 6393: 6392: 6387: 6383: 6379: 6375: 6372:is masked by 6371: 6367: 6363: 6362: 6361: 6360: 6357: 6353: 6349: 6345: 6340: 6339: 6338: 6337: 6333: 6329: 6324: 6316: 6313: 6310: 6307: 6304: 6301: 6298: 6295: 6294: 6293: 6278: 6274: 6270: 6266: 6262: 6258: 6257: 6256: 6255: 6254: 6253: 6252: 6251: 6250: 6249: 6248: 6247: 6236: 6232: 6228: 6224: 6220: 6215: 6214: 6213: 6212: 6211: 6210: 6209: 6208: 6207: 6206: 6197: 6193: 6189: 6185: 6181: 6180: 6179: 6178: 6177: 6176: 6175: 6174: 6167: 6163: 6159: 6154: 6153: 6152: 6151: 6150: 6149: 6144: 6140: 6136: 6132: 6128: 6124: 6123: 6119: 6118: 6117: 6116: 6113: 6109: 6105: 6101: 6097: 6093: 6092: 6091: 6078: 6075: 6070: 6068: 6062: 6061: 6060: 6059: 6058: 6057: 6056: 6055: 6054: 6053: 6044: 6040: 6036: 6031: 6030: 6029: 6028: 6027: 6026: 6025: 6024: 6015: 6012: 6007: 6005: 5999: 5998: 5997: 5996: 5995: 5994: 5993: 5992: 5985: 5981: 5977: 5973: 5969: 5968: 5967: 5966: 5965: 5964: 5959: 5955: 5951: 5946: 5945: 5944: 5943: 5940: 5936: 5932: 5928: 5924: 5920: 5919: 5918: 5917: 5913: 5909: 5905: 5901: 5897: 5888: 5886: 5885: 5881: 5877: 5873: 5866: 5862: 5858: 5854: 5850: 5846: 5843: 5839: 5838: 5837: 5836: 5832: 5828: 5823: 5816: 5812: 5807: 5802: 5797: 5792: 5787: 5786: 5785: 5784: 5780: 5776: 5772: 5767: 5763: 5762:to the reader 5759: 5752: 5748: 5744: 5740: 5739: 5738: 5737: 5733: 5729: 5725: 5718: 5714: 5710: 5706: 5702: 5698: 5697: 5696: 5695: 5691: 5687: 5682: 5678: 5671: 5668: 5667: 5666: 5663: 5661: 5656: 5649: 5645: 5641: 5637: 5634: 5631: 5627: 5623: 5619: 5618: 5617: 5616: 5612: 5608: 5602: 5592: 5591: 5587: 5583: 5572: 5568: 5563: 5558: 5553: 5548: 5541: 5537: 5533: 5529: 5525: 5521: 5516: 5512: 5507: 5503: 5499: 5495: 5491: 5487: 5482: 5478: 5477: 5475: 5474: 5473: 5472: 5468: 5464: 5453: 5443: 5433: 5423: 5413: 5403: 5393: 5380: 5374: 5372: 5371: 5368: 5365: 5363: 5352: 5348: 5338: 5331: 5323: 5319: 5315: 5311: 5310: 5309: 5308: 5307: 5306: 5299: 5295: 5292: 5289: 5286: 5278: 5271: 5270: 5269: 5268: 5267: 5266: 5259: 5255: 5251: 5247: 5246: 5245: 5244: 5241: 5238: 5236: 5231: 5226: 5225: 5224: 5223: 5218: 5215: 5213: 5208: 5204: 5203: 5202: 5201: 5200: 5199: 5195: 5191: 5177: 5174: 5171: 5166: 5165: 5164: 5158: 5156: 5155: 5152: 5150: 5145: 5141: 5134:Sandbox moved 5133: 5129: 5125: 5121: 5116: 5115: 5112: 5109: 5107: 5102: 5097: 5092: 5088: 5084: 5076:2.468 × 10 kg 5073: 5055: 5047: 5037:{{subst:e|9}} 5027: 5023: 5019: 5018: 5013: 5012: 5007: 5003: 4994: 4987: 4983: 4979: 4974: 4973: 4972: 4971: 4967: 4963: 4955: 4952: 4950: 4945: 4941: 4940: 4939: 4938: 4935: 4930: 4928: 4918: 4917: 4914: 4912: 4907: 4903: 4901: 4897: 4893: 4889: 4885: 4880: 4877:0.298 728 209 4856:0.123 543 599 4605: 4592: 4591: 4588: 4585: 4582: 4580: 4575: 4570: 4352: 4351: 4346: 4343: 4341: 4336: 4332: 4331: 4330: 4329: 4328: 4327: 4323: 4319: 4313: 4305: 4303: 4293:Section start 4292: 4288: 4287: 4284: 4282: 4277: 4273: 4215: 4211: 4210: 4205: 4202: 4200: 4195: 4184: 4180: 4176: 4172: 4171: 4166: 4162: 4158: 4157: 4154: 4151: 4150: 4141: 4137: 4133: 4128: 4127: 4126: 4125: 4124: 4123: 4122: 4121: 4110: 4107: 4103: 4099: 4098: 4097: 4096: 4095: 4094: 4093: 4092: 4091: 4090: 4079: 4076: 4072: 4068: 4067: 4066: 4065: 4064: 4063: 4062: 4061: 4060: 4059: 4058: 4047: 4044: 4042: 4039: 4038: 4035: 4031: 4030: 4022: 4017: 4015: 4010: 4008: 4003: 4002: 3999: 3981: 3974: 3973: 3972: 3971: 3970: 3969: 3968: 3967: 3966: 3965: 3956: 3952: 3948: 3943: 3942: 3941: 3940: 3939: 3938: 3937: 3936: 3927: 3926: 3923: 3921: 3916: 3908: 3901: 3900: 3899: 3898: 3897: 3896: 3895: 3894: 3887: 3884: 3883: 3877: 3876: 3875: 3874: 3873: 3872: 3867: 3864: 3862: 3857: 3853: 3849: 3844: 3843: 3842: 3841: 3831: 3825: 3816: 3807: 3798: 3792: 3790: 3787: 3786: 3780: 3779: 3778: 3777: 3774: 3772: 3767: 3763: 3639: 3634: 3631: 3629: 3624: 3621: 3620: 3619: 3588:1,579,800.298 3479:1,579,800.298 3411: 3409: 3406: 3404: 3399: 3395: 3387: 3383: 3382: 3377: 3372: 3371: 3368: 3365: 3363: 3358: 3354: 3350: 3346: 3342: 3341: 3332: 3329: 3328: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3311: 3310: 3309: 3308: 3301: 3298: 3296: 3291: 3287: 3286: 3280: 3279: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3275: 3270: 3267: 3266: 3262: 3254: 3253: 3251: 3237: 3227: 3218:1,579,800.298 3215: 3208:1,579,800.298 3205: 3204: 3202: 3201: 3200: 3199: 3196: 3192: 3188: 3184: 3179: 3172:1,234,567.765 3169: 3166: 3165: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3157: 3155: 3150: 3146: 3144: 3140: 3136: 3124: 3122: 3120: 3116: 3112: 3108: 3104: 3100: 3096: 3091: 3088: 3084: 3083:0.187 985 755 3080: 3077:0.187 985 755 3072: 3065:(e.g. coding 3064: 3060: 3054: 3050: 3046: 3036: 3028: 3024: 3020: 3016: 3013: 3009: 3005: 2998: 2997: 2992: 2988: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2981: 2975: 2971: 2969: 2965: 2961: 2957: 2952: 2950: 2949: 2944: 2943: 2937: 2935: 2930: 2929: 2925: 2923: 2913: 2891: 2887: 2884: 2881: 2863: 2862: 2857: 2850: 2848: 2843: 2842: 2838: 2832: 2828: 2824: 2820: 2816: 2812: 2807: 2806: 2805: 2804: 2801: 2797: 2793: 2789: 2785: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2773: 2769: 2765: 2757: 2751: 2747: 2743: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2731: 2727: 2723: 2719: 2715: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2707: 2704: 2700: 2695: 2690: 2685: 2679: 2678: 2677: 2676: 2672: 2668: 2659: 2656: 2655: 2654: 2652: 2647: 2646: 2642: 2638: 2634: 2627: 2623: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2569: 2565: 2561: 2557: 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2549: 2548: 2547: 2546: 2545: 2544: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2506: 2505: 2504: 2503: 2502: 2501: 2500: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2472: 2468: 2464: 2460: 2456: 2455: 2454: 2453: 2452: 2451: 2450: 2449: 2448: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2424: 2420: 2416: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2403: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2399: 2398: 2397: 2396: 2395: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2374: 2370: 2366: 2362: 2357: 2356: 2355: 2354: 2353: 2352: 2351: 2350: 2349: 2348: 2347: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2331: 2327: 2323: 2319: 2318: 2315:3,794,081 sq 2312: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2308: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2301: 2290: 2286: 2281: 2276: 2271: 2266: 2261: 2260: 2259: 2256: 2254:Caer’s whines 2250: 2246: 2242: 2237: 2236:United States 2234: 2233: 2232: 2228: 2224: 2220: 2219: 2218: 2214: 2210: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2203: 2200: 2196: 2192: 2188: 2184: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2178: 2175: 2173:Caer’s whines 2169: 2159: 2157: 2156: 2152: 2148: 2144: 2135: 2131: 2128: 2124: 2123: 2119: 2118: 2117: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2100: 2078: 2074: 2070: 2065: 2061: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2053: 2052: 2051: 2050: 2049: 2048: 2047: 2046: 2045: 2044: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2019: 2015: 2011: 2007: 2003: 2002: 2001: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1995: 1994: 1993: 1992: 1991: 1990: 1989: 1988: 1987: 1986: 1971: 1968: 1965: 1964: 1948: 1941: 1937: 1933: 1929: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1921: 1920: 1919: 1918: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1913: 1912: 1899: 1895: 1891: 1887: 1883: 1878: 1875: 1874: 1872: 1868: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1859: 1858: 1857: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1844: 1841: 1836: 1834: 1828: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1798: 1797:round numbers 1794: 1789: 1785: 1782: 1779: 1775: 1773: 1769: 1768:and technical 1765: 1762: 1759: 1758: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1745: 1742: 1737: 1735: 1729: 1724: 1723: 1722: 1721: 1718: 1714: 1710: 1706: 1702: 1698: 1695: 1694: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1672: 1671: 1670: 1669: 1668: 1667: 1666: 1665: 1658: 1655: 1652: 1651: 1639: 1638: 1637: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1614: 1613: 1604: 1601: 1597: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1590: 1589: 1588: 1583: 1579: 1575: 1570: 1569: 1568: 1567: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1554: 1551: 1546: 1544: 1538: 1534: 1529: 1527: 1520: 1519: 1514: 1510: 1506: 1501: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1479: 1476: 1472: 1471: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1456: 1452: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1441: 1437: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1411: 1406: 1405: 1404: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1399: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1369: 1365: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1352:prefer metric 1349: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1343: 1339: 1335: 1330: 1326: 1325: 1322: 1318: 1314: 1310: 1305: 1302: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1292: 1287: 1285: 1276: 1272: 1269: 1266: 1263: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1255: 1248: 1245: 1242: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1235: 1225: 1221: 1217: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1195: 1192: 1187: 1185: 1178: 1174: 1171: 1168: 1167: 1166: 1159: 1155: 1151: 1147: 1143: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1130: 1117: 1113: 1109: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1099: 1095: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1072: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1046: 1043: 1042: 1037: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1021: 1017: 1013: 1008: 1004: 1003: 1002: 1001: 1000: 999: 998: 997: 990: 987: 985:Caer’s whines 981: 975: 974: 973: 972: 971: 970: 965: 961: 957: 953: 949: 945: 941: 940: 939: 938: 935: 932: 931: 926: 922: 918: 914: 913: 912: 911: 907: 903: 899: 898: 888: 872: 868: 864: 860: 856: 855: 854: 853: 852: 851: 850: 849: 848: 847: 846: 845: 844: 843: 830: 826: 822: 817: 816: 815: 814: 813: 812: 811: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 795: 791: 787: 783: 779: 778: 777: 776: 775: 774: 773: 772: 771: 770: 759: 755: 751: 746: 745: 744: 743: 742: 741: 740: 739: 738: 737: 728: 724: 720: 716: 713: 712: 711: 710: 709: 708: 707: 706: 699: 695: 691: 687: 683: 679: 678: 677: 676: 675: 674: 669: 665: 661: 656: 655: 654: 653: 650: 646: 642: 637: 636: 635: 634: 630: 626: 618: 614: 610: 609: 608: 606: 602: 598: 594: 593:micron (wool) 587: 583: 579: 574: 573: 568: 564: 560: 556: 555: 551: 550:Micron (wool) 547: 546: 540: 537: 533: 530: 526: 525: 523: 519: 516: 515: 514: 513: 509: 505: 501: 497: 489: 485: 484: 483: 480: 479: 475: 471: 467: 463: 456: 452: 448: 444: 440: 436: 432: 431: 430: 429: 425: 421: 416: 415: 411: 407: 404: 400: 396: 390: 386: 381: 376: 371: 367: 362: 359: 355: 352: 351: 350: 349: 348: 347: 343: 339: 335: 330: 328: 319: 315: 311: 306: 305: 304: 303: 300: 296: 292: 288: 287: 286: 285: 281: 277: 269: 266: 263: 261: 255: 251: 247: 246: 245: 244: 240: 236: 232: 228: 219: 215: 211: 206: 202: 199: 198: 197: 196: 190: 186: 183: 182: 181:My comments: 180: 179: 175: 171: 167: 163: 157: 153: 149: 146: 143: 139: 136: 132: 128: 125: 124: 123: 121: 113: 107: 104: 101: 99: 96: 94: 91: 88: 84: 82: 79: 77: 74: 72: 69: 68: 60: 56: 52: 51: 46: 39: 38: 29: 23: 19: 6997: 6972: 6813: 6776: 6761: 6731: 6699: 6606: 6573:18th century 6522: 6519:18th century 6444: 6373: 6320: 6291: 6183: 6126: 6089: 6066: 6003: 5892: 5869: 5821: 5819: 5790: 5770: 5765: 5761: 5757: 5755: 5721: 5709:Gene Nygaard 5674: 5669: 5664: 5659: 5652: 5632: 5598: 5575: 5386: 5366: 5359: 5355:  5349:ing over at 5346: 5339: 5335: 5233: 5210: 5185: 5162: 5147: 5137: 5104: 5095: 5090: 5082: 5071: 5053: 5015: 5009: 4992: 4985: 4958: 4947: 4926: 4921: 4909: 4904: 4881: 4606: 4594: 4577: 4571: 4354: 4338: 4314: 4309: 4296: 4279: 4274: 4217: 4197: 4182: 4168: 4153:(unindented) 4152: 4056: 4027: 3918: 3912: 3906: 3881: 3859: 3851: 3784: 3769: 3764: 3640: 3637: 3626: 3469:(30) × 10 kg 3412: 3401: 3392: 3391: 3385: 3360: 3353:this sandbox 3344: 3326: 3293: 3283: 3264: 3152: 3147: 3142: 3138: 3131: 3118: 3098: 3094: 3092: 3082: 3074: 3066: 3058: 3056: 3048: 3038: 3030: 3007: 2995: 2994: 2976: 2972: 2953: 2946: 2940: 2938: 2933: 2931: 2927: 2926: 2909: 2900:(30) × 10 kg 2882: 2877: kg 2859: 2853: 2845: 2844: 2761: 2742:Gene Nygaard 2722:Gene Nygaard 2717: 2713: 2667:Thunderbird2 2664: 2657: 2648: 2637:Thunderbird2 2630: 2594:Thunderbird2 2590: 2463:Thunderbird2 2415:Thunderbird2 2322:Thunderbird2 2314: 2264: 2244: 2223:Thunderbird2 2209:Gerry Ashton 2191:Thunderbird2 2163: 2140: 2104: 2063: 2059: 2058:MJCdetroit, 2005: 1957: 1931: 1927: 1885: 1884:Or possibly 1876: 1870: 1832: 1826: 1796: 1792: 1783: 1780: 1777: 1771: 1767: 1733: 1727: 1644: 1624: 1620: 1603: 1599: 1595: 1574:Gerry Ashton 1542: 1536: 1525: 1481: 1477: 1454: 1451:not a school 1436:Gerry Ashton 1432: 1409: 1355: 1351: 1308: 1300: 1283: 1280: 1274: 1261: 1253: 1252: 1236:the change: 1233: 1230: 1211: 1183: 1163: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1094:Thunderbird2 1040: 956:Thunderbird2 951: 947: 943: 929: 902:EraNavigator 895: 892: 863:Gene Nygaard 786:Gene Nygaard 781: 719:Thunderbird2 660:Thunderbird2 641:Gene Nygaard 625:Thunderbird2 622: 617:newton metre 590: 578:Gene Nygaard 566: 562: 558: 535: 528: 521: 517:My two cents 504:Thunderbird2 499: 495: 493: 481: 465: 459: 417: 398: 395:Temperature: 394: 393: 357: 331: 324: 291:Thunderbird2 276:Gerry Ashton 272: 264: 257: 230: 224: 210:Gerry Ashton 200: 185:Temperatures 184: 155: 151: 147: 141: 134: 130: 127:Temperatures 126: 119: 117: 86: 54: 48: 7018:Josiah Rowe 6975:Josiah Rowe 6849:{{convert}} 6779:MortimerCat 6567:, and make 5724:WP:Overlink 5655:wp:overlink 5362:SMcCandlish 5017:SI Prefixes 4306:Section end 4298:100,000.000 3081:to produce 3033:6.022461342 3027:significand 2633:Erlang unit 2626:Erlang unit 2069:Askari Mark 1801:Askari Mark 1781:(converted) 1766:Scientific 1277:(converted) 1210:should use 1175:I see that 782:house style 447:LeadSongDog 406:LeadSongDog 260:SMcCandlish 160:—Preceding 106:Archive 105 98:Archive 100 47:This is an 6713:PMAnderson 6702:to make a 6655:, and the 6531:PMAnderson 6382:PMAnderson 6273:PMAnderson 6192:PMAnderson 6139:PMAnderson 5980:PMAnderson 5876:Lightmouse 5849:Lightmouse 5831:PMAnderson 5743:Lightmouse 5732:PMAnderson 5686:Lightmouse 5452:delimitnum 5422:delimitnum 5412:delimitnum 5343:  5332:Consensus? 5062:to obtain 4982:magic word 4902:groupings. 4900:four-digit 4862:0.29872821 4179:four-digit 4046:Soundtrack 4041:Characters 3448:12,345.678 3434:12,345.678 3420:12,345.678 3374:use it in 3111:{{nowrap}} 3099:15.25 × 10 3087:word wraps 3023:magic word 3006:(.), e.g. 2978:following: 2964:magic word 2768:Lightmouse 2658:erlang (E) 2614:PMAnderson 2564:PMAnderson 2369:PMAnderson 2107:Lightmouse 2014:PMAnderson 1930:part. 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Knowledge (XXG)

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