Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football/Players/Archive 2

326:. That doesn't necessarily make them examples of best practice WP:FOOTY-wise. And improving Knowledge is a gradual process: nothing happens overnight. As to row-by-row referencing, people seem to be going over to doing that. It's easier for the curious reader to tell which reference applies to which set of stats: we shouldn't expect them to search through a row of refs at the top of the article if they want to verify a particular stat. And from a wishful-thinking point of view, if the anon editors who do most of the updating on stats tables get used to the idea of inline sources, they 35: 2861: 2895: 2988:

in a way of describing "major" competitions. My idea is that the list gives a reader nice overview of how a player performed at international events, and that describing "major" events is quite easy in football. At international level we have youth, friendly, qualifying and "major" competitions where

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While in most of articles about football players performing at international level, we can find "international statistics" section with apps and goals scored in particular years, I've been always missing a section where I could read how a player performed during international events. For that purpose

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The discussion focussed on the columns, inclusion criteria with only scant attention paid to the issue of chronology as I'd suspect it was largely overlooked by editors as it wasn't overtly signposted that that was the intention. On that basis I think a clarification of consensus would be helpful on

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I don't believe I have 'taken personal offence' or questioned that you 'dared' to change something, merely questioned the logic of your position and the MOS, and stated my belief that it is confusing and a poor reader experience, consensus or no. Having read the previous discussion now I think the

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I'm attempting to add annotated historical content to the Owen Hargreaves article about the controversy caused in Canada by his decision to play for the English national team. My edits are continuously deleted by a User PeeJay2K3 without putting up any proof that the controversy is untrue. How do I

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I agree with you that Soccerway would be better than Soccerbase . I make no comment on the reliability of Scccerbase except to state that it is a betting site, and that is why it is questionable. I do not believe that it is proper to put such a link in the template, especially when there are other

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Thank you very much for setting out such a constructive set of questions. Not sure whether I should format my replies like this, or intersperse them with the questions. If people think interspersed would be better, please feel free to reformat, and copy my sig up to each reply, or ask me to do it,

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7. Assuming the club season article would be independently notable, i.e. club playing in a top or fully professional league, then definitely club season. It's considerably more likely to be relevant to the player, and by extension to the reader looking at the table and wanting further information,

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above re good articles and gradual improvement. It's "unnecessary" to include a stats table at all. If we're including one, it makes sense to include information helpful to the reader. The informative notes below the tables are a fairly recent introduction, and are being gradually adopted. cheers,

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I support Struway2's proposal. We don't need a link to Soccerbase or any of the other possible links embedded in the template as if it's the prime source of all wisdom. We have Premier League, BBC Sports, Transfermarkt, Soccerway, Soccerbase and no doubt others that I am not aware of. All of them

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section, explicitly noted as source(s) for infobox statistics, it's not something we should be encouraging. Better to include generic ideas of what might be relevant: "link to player's personal website", "link to profile on current club's website", "link to full details of international career",

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stats site at all. It's a leftover from the time when an external link to an appropriate stats site was considered sufficient for sourcing the player's infobox stats. Although many editors still think it's OK to do it that way, rather than either having a row-by-row-sourced career stats table or

308:... Instead, they mostly just have 1-3 references at the top and I personally think that looks much cleaner. So what you are saying does not seem to be coherent. Maybe most of the articles in the 'good articles' list should be removed from the list based on what you said.-- 2600:. We know the reason you hate Soccerbase is that it sticks to the British practice of using feet & inches and stones & pounds, as well as metric conversions, for player statistics; whilst your favoured premier league site atypically uses metric units only. 1919:

2. Do we need to add multiple 'Total' rows if a player has 2 or more spells at one club? For example, if the player has 2 spells at a club, should the second 'Total' be the sum of the first 'Total' and the second one? What if they have 3 spells at the same

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At the moment the template contains a link to Soccerbase. This is inappropriate because the website is a betting agency and the link amounts to free advertising. It would be better to replace this with a link to Premier League, which is the official body.

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Bit late, but I would say like Messi now, i.e. medaltemplates as well, but only for national teams. It should only be for competitions where a gold, silver and bronze medal is awarded, really. But other national team competitions is fine as well maybe? –

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2. If they're physically adjacent in the table, e.g. a loan immediately above a permanent spell, I'd have just one total row for the lot. If they're physically separate, I'd have separate, independent totals rows, i.e. the second/third totals would

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I put some work to edit some articles I follow and created extra sections called "international events". It's based on a template used by NHL ice hockey players. I made that edit for 6 articles, here is the example of such a list for created for

1964:; if there are multiple rowspanned columns, particularly if the player has had a long career with several years at each of several clubs and changes of division don't coincide with changes of club, the eyeline goes up and down like a 3105:

don't read rows with rowspanned cells properly, if that's still the case. It might well not be. Perhaps someone who supports this change could get confirmation from the accessibility project as to whether it's OK or not, then

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for players playing solely in England, or National Cup and {generic) League Cup for players playing in several countries. Whatever's appropriate. As with the European or Other columns, we can always add footnotes if

2715:: Just to clarify that although the passing observer might infer a causal relationship from the wording "Removed the link to the betting site following Struway2's suggestion", I'm sure you didn't mean to imply one. 3129:

Secondary question here. If we should not be using rowspanning to put multiple years in the same division/league, should we be rowpanning the club name? Wouldn't that cause the same problem for the screen readers?

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and removed the 4 soccerbase references while keeping the source for the one FA Trophy game he played. However, my edits were reverted by the administrator. So, should we have a source for every season? Thanks.

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organisations that could be used in its place, including BBC Sport, Premier League and perhaps Soccerway. (Soccerway does carry betting advertisements, but it is not a betting site as Soccerbase appears to be

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has a long career, played in many different leagues and cups and the way his table is formatted allows me to see what I need quickly. This is the standard we should be reaching to achieve in my opinion.

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can't cope with rowspans after the first column, so mislead their users; don't know if that's still the case, but assuming it is, we shouldn't be recommending a structure that some users can't access.

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But it seems like few of the 'good articles' have that kind of information in them. Is it that they should not be considered as 'good articles' or it is just unnecessary to include that information?--

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9. Where should we include competitions like the FA Community Shield (1 round), the Spanish Super Cup (2 rounds), FIFA Club World Cup, UEFA Super Cup, and DFB-Ligapokal (abandoned)? 'Cup' or 'Other'?

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It appears that assists/clean sheets are not included in the template table. Does it mean that we need to help remove the assists and clean sheets columns in all of the football player articles?--

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more likely to update with reference to that source, rather than just ignoring some number in square brackets miles above the row they're updating. If there's a particular reliable source that

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From the discussion above, and the recent change reverted by myself as without consensus, it's clear that many people prefer not to repeat the division name on every row. However, what we

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From the discussion above, and the recent change reverted by myself as without consensus, it's clear that many people prefer not to repeat the division name on every row. However, what we

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matter of chronology was glossed over anyway - the only mention of it was you saying it should be one way and Struway disagreeing. On that basis I think it's worth discussing more fully.

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matter of chronology was glossed over anyway - the only mention of it was you saying it should be one way and Struway disagreeing. On that basis I think it's worth discussing more fully.

2038:. I like your approach. Can I just give a visual example of a career stats table, which I think is perfect and should be the template for ALL player articles that include a stats table.. 3247:

Why has this example table been "adopted"? Should I have revert the edit immediately, instead of asking for the reasons, especially since the edit was made by a long-time contributor to

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Why has this example table been "adopted"? Should I have revert the edit immediately, instead of asking for the reasons, especially since the edit was made by a long-time contributor to

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as an example, it looks much cleaner and much easier for readers to see that he's only been playing in the Premier League since his third season at Man Utd because we used merged cells.

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Alright. Thanks so much for answering! I am sorry but I do have a couple more questions regarding the stats table. Please refer to tables I posted in the Assists/Clean sheets section.

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article does? I removed the note because no other articles do that but it was put back by the administrator. So do we need to do the same for every other applicable article? Thanks.--

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Yes is the short answer. If a player plays in many European competitions over his career, it's important to be able to see quickly what they were involved in that season.

3265:...um, maybe because that is what was agreed at the discussion I have linked above? Just because you disagree with the consensus does not make the consensus incorrect. 2371:...um, maybe because that is what was agreed at the discussion I have linked above? Just because you disagree with the consensus does not make the consensus incorrect. 1930:

7. What should the seasons link to? For example, should we link 2000–01 to 2000–01 Premier League or 2000–01 Template United F.C. season? What if none of the two exist?

2627:. This is the first of three edits made under that name as I write. The other two were to create a user page and user talk. I think that this is a sockpuppet account. 3154:

consensus that says that players' stats tables should be grouped by club instead of listing them chronologically? I seem to have completely missed this discussion. --

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consensus that says that players' stats tables should be grouped by club instead of listing them chronologically? I seem to have completely missed this discussion. --

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If goals and appearances are unknown for a player due to lack of sources, what is the appropriate way of displaying the lack of information in the infobox? --

3251:? To say it clearly, I don't agree to your edit and prefer the chronological order. The whole way of pushing this issue without clear consensus annoys me. -- 2357:? To say it clearly, I don't agree to your edit and prefer the chronological order. The whole way of pushing this issue without clear consensus annoys me. -- 2118:

3. & 8. I prefer merged cells. It's then easier to see (especially if the player has a long spell in one league) that it was each season the same league.

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with a "honours" section, other pages like this "MoS"-page got the honours listed in the infobox using the |medaltemplate= parameter, while some pages like

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I think that could better represent their achieved stats besides the number of appearances they've made and their goals (even if they're not a striker)

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I think that could better represent their achieved stats besides the number of appearances they've made and their goals (even if they're not a striker)

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By all means feel free to start a fresh discussion - but until consensus changes (if/when), please do not edit against it just because you disagree.

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By all means feel free to start a fresh discussion - but until consensus changes (if/when), please do not edit against it just because you disagree.

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have their strengths and their weaknesses and arbitrarily singling out just one of them to put in the template doesn't seem to me to be warranted.

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1. Is a 'Total' row needed if the player has only played for the club for one season (e.g. one-year loan spell)? What if it is the current season?

2089:, but when I removed the assists columns in Cesc Fabregas, it was considered as nonconstructive and my edits were undone. So, what should we do? 2833: 3398: 3341: 3060: 2504: 2447: 1932:

8. Should season cells be merged if the player played at 2 or more clubs in one season? If so, what if they played in different leagues?

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This has been already been discussed a lot of times with no changes in the consensus. I think the latest discussions can be found

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This has been already been discussed a lot of times with no changes in the consensus. I think the latest discussions can be found

2491:- Goal keepers and defenders should have the number of clean sheets they've made listed beside the number of goals they've scored 2012:(instead of zeroes) when the club didn't play in the relevant competition while the player was registered with them: e.g., as at 1675: 1635: 1593: 1516: 1479: 1442: 1405: 1368: 1328: 1288: 1249: 1050: 1007: 959: 870: 827: 784: 741: 698: 655: 612: 564: 159: 2085:

10. It seems that people do not agree on whether or not assists/clean sheets should be removed. Assists are not included in

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article does? Or should we simply replace it by one single reference that includes all of the stats? I added this ESPN page

2567:, and the Premier League website only covers Premier League games (unsurprisingly...). A better site would be Soccerway. 466:

If that's the case, then why my edits to Cesc Fabregas were undone? I removed the assists cells based on what you said.--

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Could you please help improve the template I provided for Cesc Fabregas and migrate it to the actual article? Thanks.--

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What is the best way of listing honours? The most normal thing to do, as far as I can see, is the way it's done in

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verify every (or nearly every) entry in the stats table, it does no harm to repeat the link on each row. cheers,

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5. That layout, like the rest of the page, only gives a rough idea. Most editors would separate "Cup" into

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football#Group season in statistics tables by club or list them chronologically

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football#Group season in statistics tables by club or list them chronologically

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and all.But how it is possible?Division should be like English first division,French second division etc.

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My apologies if my edit summary was misleading. I am glad that you have made your changes so promptly.

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has the honours listed both ways. Should we adjust this MoS-page, or is this the right way to do it? --

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The 'example' table - which has now been adopted - clearly has it grouped by team and not by season.

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The 'example' table - which has now been adopted - clearly has it grouped by team and not by season.

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I would support removing one specific link. As a side note Transfermarkt is not a reliable source.

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be used for pushing your views on how the UK should be forced into using the metric system alone

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Is it necessary to add a note that states what European competition a player played in like the

3186:- and as an FYI, this fresh discussion has spun out of Bladeboy taking personal offence when I 2292:- and as an FYI, this fresh discussion has spun out of Bladeboy taking personal offence when I 3426: 3349: 3293: 3279: 3266: 3256: 3236: 3222: 3211: 3195: 3170: 3159: 3045: 2727:

with suggestions as to what sort of link might be appropriate, and will now proceed to do so.

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4. Only necessary if the player (or at least the club) took part in a continental competition.

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6. The situation where cup or other is not applicable is not demonstrated in the template.

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Is it necessary to provide a reference to every single season in the stats table like the

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football#Creating international events statistic section

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than the league season. If a notable club season doesn't exist, still link to it.

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Suggestion: Extra stats for players other than listing down their number of goals

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Suggestion: Extra stats for players other than listing down their number of goals

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Please give me idea if a layout of such lists could exist for football players.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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4. Whatever's appropriate. Most players don't play in continental competition.

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FWIW I don't think these kind of stats tables should be added, per NOTSTATS.

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include divisions and season references in the career stats table, such as

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plus the Summer Olympic Games tournament being all official events under

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Only major international events including the Olympic Games with U23 team

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5. How are we supposed to indicate what cups the player has played for?

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3. Shouldn't the league cells/rows be merged if it's the same league?

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http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/150844/carl-jenkinson?cc=5901#ui-tabs-1

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4. Shouldn't the template include a Continental(e.g. Europe) column?

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who believes that there is no need for such lists and that it's a

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Thank you! I strongly agree with you on merged cells. Let's take

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Same here - It makes no sense for it not to be chronological.

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Same here - It makes no sense for it not to be chronological.

29: 3110:, the change could be proposed and discussed here. Thanks, 3019:

not many editors follow this subsection, I would recommend

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Another thing some editors do is to format a cell pair as

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In the career stats table in the Division cell we write

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Don't think the template should include a link to any

2061:... a perfect example for European competition stats. 480:

I included the old version and the new version below.

210:In such cases I leave the goals and apps empty. -- 2130:For the others I agree with the answers above. -- 3146:Group stats by club or list them chronologically 2778: 2252:Group stats by club or list them chronologically 1960:3. No. It's easier for a sighted reader to read 2757:Creating international events statistic section 449:Assists and Clean Sheets should be removed per 322:"Good articles" have to pass a specific set of 2780: 2647:having one or more general references, in the 406: 266:, so this is what we should be adhering to. 8: 2980:All the edits has been however reverted by 2087:Chris Burke (footballer)#Career statistics 2014:Chris Burke (footballer)#Career statistics 1587: 1243: 953: 558: 1990:6. See 5. Omit whatever's inappropriate. 1913:Stats table template needs to be updated 1884: 1882: 1880: 1180: 492: 280:But over 90% of the articles listed as ' 3436: 1787: 3085:Division column: to repeat name or not 2212:Division column: to repeat name or not 1843: 1841: 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1957:include figures from previous spells. 1828: 1826: 1824: 1822: 1820: 1818: 1816: 1814: 1812: 7: 3097:by recommending a style that fails 2224:by recommending a style that fails 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football 3059:This discussion has been moved to 28: 2721:removing a link to a betting site 254:Every season needs its own cite, 94:Honours-section / Medal templates 3093:do here is override Knowledge's 2893: 2859: 2563:No - Soccerbase is considered a 2220:do here is override Knowledge's 175:. But please sign your edits. -- 33: 3340:I started a discussion over at 3150:Hi, can anyone point me to the 2446:I started a discussion over at 2256:Hi, can anyone point me to the 3001:or respective confederations. 2752:13:55, 10 September 2014 (UTC) 2737:13:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC) 2706:12:30, 10 September 2014 (UTC) 2696:I have now removed that link. 2173:20:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2140:18:07, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2103:17:17, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2071:10:30, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2053:10:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2029:10:07, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 2002:the club season isn't notable. 1944:04:04, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 1908:16:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 476:16:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 462:00:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 444:23:12, 10 September 2013 (UTC) 420:09:02, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 401:00:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 387:00:39, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 372:23:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC) 354:Note for European competitions 344:08:57, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 318:00:44, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 276:00:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC) 249:23:22, 10 September 2013 (UTC) 1: 3194:more into line with our MOS. 3140:14:11, 27 February 2023 (UTC) 3120:16:07, 26 December 2013 (UTC) 3008:21:54 (CET), 14 October 2015 2993:, continental championships, 2691:15:44, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 2678:13:27, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 2662:08:30, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 2637:06:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 2618:21:17, 3 September 2014 (UTC) 2591:06:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 2575:12:31, 3 September 2014 (UTC) 2558:12:27, 3 September 2014 (UTC) 2300:more into line with our MOS. 2247:16:07, 26 December 2013 (UTC) 171:You may open a discussion at 3344:. Let's see what happens. -- 3080:19:20, 16 October 2015 (UTC) 3052:17:11, 16 October 2015 (UTC) 3040:15:03, 16 October 2015 (UTC) 2725:replacing all specific links 2450:. Let's see what happens. -- 2207:06:16, 22 October 2013 (UTC) 3354:10:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC) 3300:13:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3288:13:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3273:12:53, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3261:12:29, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3243:11:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3231:11:32, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3216:11:20, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3202:11:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 3179:12:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC) 3164:14:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC) 2596:We won't fall for that one 2460:10:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC) 2406:13:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2394:13:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2379:12:53, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2367:12:29, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2349:11:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2337:11:32, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2322:11:20, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2308:11:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 2285:12:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC) 2270:14:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC) 116:14:46, 6 October 2012 (UTC) 3472: 3431:10:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 3407:10:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 2537:10:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 2513:10:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 1749: 1714: 1552: 1541: 1504: 1467: 1430: 1393: 1276: 1203: 1200: 1195: 1192: 1189: 1186: 1183: 1133: 1092: 963: 912: 568: 512: 507: 504: 501: 498: 495: 407:#Citation for stats table 220:18:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 205:17:07, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 3063:. Please comment there. 2623:I am very suspicious of 2185:Division in career stats 1177:Fabregas new stats table 226:Citation for stats table 185:19:20, 9 July 2013 (UTC) 164:16:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC) 132:23:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC) 2995:FIFA Confederations Cup 2723:: you did. I suggested 3278:this specific issue. 2384:this specific issue. 1949:1. Not in my opinion. 1834:UEFA Champions League 191:Appearances and goals 46:of past discussions. 3192:this mess of a table 2770:International events 2298:this mess of a table 430:Assists/Clean sheets 3453:FA Community Shield 2034:Very well answered 2005:8. No. See 3 and 7. 1890:Supercopa de España 1873:FIFA Club World Cup 1849:FA Community Shield 2877:Confederations Cup 2652:whatever. cheers, 2019:whatever. cheers, 124:Terje Christiansen 3397:comment added by 2978: 2977: 2713:your edit summary 2602:Knowledge should 2503:comment added by 1996:redlinks are good 1784: 1783: 1174: 1173: 167: 150:comment added by 91: 90: 58: 57: 52:current talk page 3463: 3456: 3441: 3409: 3018: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2779: 2719:never suggested 2515: 2127:10. Remove both. 2011: 1892: 1886: 1875: 1869: 1863: 1857: 1851: 1845: 1836: 1830: 1807: 1792: 1181: 493: 324:WP-wide criteria 166: 144: 72: 60: 59: 37: 36: 30: 3471: 3470: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3462: 3461: 3460: 3459: 3442: 3438: 3392: 3380: 3148: 3095:Manual of Style 3087: 3012: 2894: 2892: 2860: 2858: 2839:Summer Olympics 2772: 2759: 2565:reliable source 2545: 2543:Soccerbase link 2498: 2486: 2254: 2222:Manual of Style 2214: 2187: 2009: 1915: 1896: 1895: 1887: 1878: 1870: 1866: 1859:Appearances in 1858: 1854: 1847:Appearances in 1846: 1839: 1832:Appearances in 1831: 1810: 1793: 1789: 1521:Premier League 1484:Premier League 1447:Premier League 1410:Premier League 1373:Premier League 1333:Premier League 1293:Premier League 1179: 432: 356: 306:Dennis Bergkamp 298:Mario Balotelli 228: 193: 145: 140: 138:Owen Hargreaves 96: 68: 34: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 3469: 3467: 3458: 3457: 3435: 3434: 3433: 3382:It's simple: 3379: 3376: 3375: 3374: 3373: 3372: 3371: 3370: 3369: 3368: 3367: 3366: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3311: 3310: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3302: 3147: 3144: 3143: 3142: 3103:screen readers 3086: 3083: 3057: 3056: 3055: 3054: 2991:FIFA World Cup 2976: 2975: 2973: 2970: 2967: 2964: 2959: 2954: 2948: 2947: 2938: 2935: 2932: 2929: 2924: 2919: 2913: 2912: 2899: 2890: 2887: 2884: 2879: 2874: 2868: 2867: 2865: 2856: 2853: 2850: 2841: 2836: 2830: 2829: 2827: 2824: 2821: 2818: 2813: 2808: 2802: 2801: 2798: 2795: 2792: 2789: 2786: 2783: 2771: 2768: 2758: 2755: 2740: 2739: 2694: 2693: 2665: 2664: 2621: 2620: 2578: 2577: 2544: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2488:It's simple: 2485: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2467: 2466: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2425: 2424: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2417: 2416: 2415: 2414: 2413: 2412: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2408: 2253: 2250: 2230:screen readers 2213: 2210: 2191:Premier League 2186: 2183: 2182: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2178: 2177: 2176: 2175: 2161: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2128: 2125: 2122: 2119: 2116: 2108: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2091: 2090: 2083: 2082: 2079: 2078: 2075: 2074: 2073: 2006: 2003: 1991: 1988: 1976: 1973: 1970:screen readers 1958: 1950: 1933: 1931: 1929: 1927: 1925: 1923: 1921: 1918: 1914: 1911: 1894: 1893: 1876: 1864: 1861:UEFA Super Cup 1852: 1837: 1808: 1786: 1785: 1782: 1781: 1778: 1775: 1772: 1769: 1766: 1763: 1760: 1757: 1754: 1751: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1740: 1737: 1734: 1731: 1728: 1725: 1722: 1719: 1716: 1712: 1711: 1708: 1705: 1702: 1699: 1696: 1693: 1690: 1687: 1684: 1681: 1678: 1672: 1671: 1668: 1665: 1662: 1659: 1656: 1653: 1650: 1647: 1644: 1641: 1638: 1632: 1631: 1628: 1625: 1622: 1619: 1616: 1613: 1610: 1607: 1604: 1601: 1596: 1591: 1585: 1584: 1581: 1578: 1575: 1572: 1569: 1566: 1563: 1560: 1557: 1554: 1550: 1549: 1546: 1543: 1540: 1537: 1534: 1531: 1528: 1525: 1522: 1519: 1513: 1512: 1509: 1506: 1503: 1500: 1497: 1494: 1491: 1488: 1485: 1482: 1476: 1475: 1472: 1469: 1466: 1463: 1460: 1457: 1454: 1451: 1448: 1445: 1439: 1438: 1435: 1432: 1429: 1426: 1423: 1420: 1417: 1414: 1411: 1408: 1402: 1401: 1398: 1395: 1392: 1389: 1386: 1383: 1380: 1377: 1374: 1371: 1365: 1364: 1361: 1358: 1355: 1352: 1349: 1346: 1343: 1340: 1337: 1334: 1331: 1325: 1324: 1321: 1318: 1315: 1312: 1309: 1306: 1303: 1300: 1297: 1294: 1291: 1285: 1284: 1281: 1278: 1275: 1272: 1269: 1266: 1263: 1260: 1257: 1255:Premier League 1252: 1247: 1241: 1240: 1237: 1234: 1231: 1228: 1225: 1222: 1219: 1216: 1213: 1210: 1206: 1205: 1202: 1199: 1194: 1191: 1188: 1185: 1178: 1175: 1172: 1171: 1168: 1165: 1162: 1159: 1156: 1153: 1150: 1147: 1144: 1141: 1138: 1135: 1131: 1130: 1127: 1124: 1121: 1118: 1115: 1112: 1109: 1106: 1103: 1100: 1097: 1094: 1090: 1089: 1086: 1083: 1080: 1077: 1074: 1071: 1068: 1065: 1062: 1059: 1056: 1053: 1047: 1046: 1043: 1040: 1037: 1034: 1031: 1028: 1025: 1022: 1019: 1016: 1013: 1010: 1004: 1003: 1000: 997: 994: 991: 988: 985: 982: 979: 976: 973: 970: 967: 962: 957: 951: 950: 947: 944: 941: 938: 935: 932: 929: 926: 923: 920: 917: 914: 910: 909: 906: 903: 900: 897: 894: 891: 888: 885: 882: 879: 876: 873: 867: 866: 863: 860: 857: 854: 851: 848: 845: 842: 839: 836: 833: 830: 824: 823: 820: 817: 814: 811: 808: 805: 802: 799: 796: 793: 790: 787: 781: 780: 777: 774: 771: 768: 765: 762: 759: 756: 753: 750: 747: 744: 738: 737: 734: 731: 728: 725: 722: 719: 716: 713: 710: 707: 704: 701: 695: 694: 691: 688: 685: 682: 679: 676: 673: 670: 667: 664: 661: 658: 652: 651: 648: 645: 642: 639: 636: 633: 630: 627: 624: 621: 618: 615: 609: 608: 605: 602: 599: 596: 593: 590: 587: 584: 581: 578: 575: 572: 570:Premier League 567: 562: 556: 555: 552: 549: 546: 543: 540: 537: 534: 531: 528: 525: 522: 519: 515: 514: 511: 506: 503: 500: 497: 486: 485: 484: 483: 482: 481: 431: 428: 427: 426: 425: 424: 423: 422: 360:Carl Jenkinson 355: 352: 351: 350: 349: 348: 347: 346: 232:Carl Jenkinson 227: 224: 223: 222: 192: 189: 188: 187: 139: 136: 135: 134: 95: 92: 89: 88: 83: 78: 73: 66: 56: 55: 38: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3468: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3440: 3437: 3432: 3428: 3424: 3420: 3416: 3412: 3411: 3410: 3408: 3404: 3400: 3399:120.28.125.33 3396: 3389: 3386: 3383: 3377: 3355: 3351: 3347: 3343: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3332: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3324: 3323: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3301: 3298: 3295: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3285: 3281: 3276: 3275: 3274: 3271: 3268: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3258: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3245: 3244: 3241: 3238: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3228: 3224: 3219: 3218: 3217: 3213: 3209: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3200: 3197: 3193: 3189: 3185: 3182: 3181: 3180: 3176: 3172: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3161: 3157: 3153: 3145: 3141: 3137: 3133: 3128: 3124: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3117: 3113: 3109: 3104: 3100: 3096: 3092: 3084: 3082: 3081: 3078: 3077: 3076: 3072: 3071: 3068: 3062: 3053: 3050: 3047: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3038: 3037: 3036: 3032: 3031: 3028: 3022: 3016: 3011: 3010: 3009: 3007: 3002: 3000: 2996: 2992: 2987: 2983: 2974: 2971: 2968: 2965: 2963: 2960: 2958: 2955: 2953: 2950: 2949: 2946: 2942: 2939: 2936: 2933: 2930: 2928: 2925: 2923: 2920: 2918: 2915: 2914: 2911: 2907: 2903: 2900: 2891: 2888: 2885: 2883: 2880: 2878: 2875: 2873: 2870: 2869: 2866: 2857: 2854: 2851: 2849: 2845: 2842: 2840: 2837: 2835: 2832: 2831: 2828: 2825: 2822: 2819: 2817: 2814: 2812: 2809: 2807: 2804: 2803: 2799: 2796: 2793: 2790: 2787: 2784: 2781: 2777: 2776: 2769: 2767: 2765: 2756: 2754: 2753: 2749: 2745: 2744:Michael Glass 2738: 2734: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2714: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2707: 2703: 2699: 2698:Michael Glass 2692: 2689: 2686: 2682: 2681: 2680: 2679: 2675: 2671: 2670:Michael Glass 2663: 2659: 2655: 2650: 2645: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2634: 2630: 2629:Michael Glass 2626: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2607: 2605: 2599: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2588: 2584: 2583:Michael Glass 2576: 2573: 2570: 2566: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2559: 2555: 2551: 2550:Michael Glass 2542: 2538: 2534: 2530: 2526: 2522: 2518: 2517: 2516: 2514: 2510: 2506: 2505:120.28.125.33 2502: 2495: 2492: 2489: 2483: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2440: 2439: 2438: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2432: 2431: 2430: 2429: 2428: 2427: 2426: 2407: 2404: 2401: 2397: 2396: 2395: 2391: 2387: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2377: 2374: 2370: 2369: 2368: 2364: 2360: 2356: 2352: 2351: 2350: 2347: 2344: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2334: 2330: 2325: 2324: 2323: 2319: 2315: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2306: 2303: 2299: 2295: 2291: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2282: 2278: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2271: 2267: 2263: 2259: 2251: 2249: 2248: 2244: 2240: 2236: 2231: 2227: 2223: 2219: 2211: 2209: 2208: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2192: 2184: 2174: 2170: 2166: 2162: 2159: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2151: 2150: 2149: 2148: 2141: 2137: 2133: 2129: 2126: 2123: 2120: 2117: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2092: 2088: 2084: 2080: 2076: 2072: 2068: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2050: 2046: 2041: 2037: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2026: 2022: 2015: 2010:colspan="2"|— 2007: 2004: 2001: 1997: 1992: 1989: 1985: 1981: 1977: 1974: 1971: 1967: 1963: 1959: 1956: 1951: 1948: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1941: 1937: 1912: 1910: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1891: 1885: 1883: 1881: 1877: 1874: 1868: 1865: 1862: 1856: 1853: 1850: 1844: 1842: 1838: 1835: 1829: 1827: 1825: 1823: 1821: 1819: 1817: 1815: 1813: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1791: 1788: 1779: 1776: 1773: 1770: 1767: 1764: 1761: 1758: 1755: 1752: 1750:Career total 1748: 1744: 1741: 1738: 1735: 1732: 1729: 1726: 1723: 1720: 1717: 1713: 1709: 1706: 1703: 1700: 1697: 1694: 1691: 1688: 1685: 1682: 1679: 1677: 1674: 1673: 1669: 1666: 1663: 1660: 1657: 1654: 1651: 1648: 1645: 1642: 1639: 1637: 1634: 1633: 1629: 1626: 1623: 1620: 1617: 1614: 1611: 1608: 1605: 1602: 1600: 1597: 1595: 1592: 1590: 1586: 1582: 1579: 1576: 1573: 1570: 1567: 1564: 1561: 1558: 1555: 1551: 1547: 1544: 1538: 1535: 1532: 1529: 1526: 1523: 1520: 1518: 1515: 1514: 1510: 1507: 1501: 1498: 1495: 1492: 1489: 1486: 1483: 1481: 1478: 1477: 1473: 1470: 1464: 1461: 1458: 1455: 1452: 1449: 1446: 1444: 1441: 1440: 1436: 1433: 1427: 1424: 1421: 1418: 1415: 1412: 1409: 1407: 1404: 1403: 1399: 1396: 1390: 1387: 1384: 1381: 1378: 1375: 1372: 1370: 1367: 1366: 1362: 1359: 1356: 1353: 1350: 1347: 1344: 1341: 1338: 1335: 1332: 1330: 1327: 1326: 1322: 1319: 1316: 1313: 1310: 1307: 1304: 1301: 1298: 1295: 1292: 1290: 1287: 1286: 1282: 1279: 1273: 1270: 1267: 1264: 1261: 1258: 1256: 1253: 1251: 1248: 1246: 1242: 1238: 1235: 1232: 1229: 1226: 1223: 1220: 1217: 1214: 1211: 1208: 1207: 1198: 1182: 1176: 1169: 1166: 1163: 1160: 1157: 1154: 1151: 1148: 1145: 1142: 1139: 1136: 1134:Career total 1132: 1128: 1125: 1122: 1119: 1116: 1113: 1110: 1107: 1104: 1101: 1098: 1095: 1091: 1087: 1084: 1081: 1078: 1075: 1072: 1069: 1066: 1063: 1060: 1057: 1054: 1052: 1049: 1048: 1044: 1041: 1038: 1035: 1032: 1029: 1026: 1023: 1020: 1017: 1014: 1011: 1009: 1006: 1005: 1001: 998: 995: 992: 989: 986: 983: 980: 977: 974: 971: 968: 966: 961: 958: 956: 952: 948: 945: 942: 939: 936: 933: 930: 927: 924: 921: 918: 915: 911: 907: 904: 901: 898: 895: 892: 889: 886: 883: 880: 877: 874: 872: 869: 868: 864: 861: 858: 855: 852: 849: 846: 843: 840: 837: 834: 831: 829: 826: 825: 821: 818: 815: 812: 809: 806: 803: 800: 797: 794: 791: 788: 786: 783: 782: 778: 775: 772: 769: 766: 763: 760: 757: 754: 751: 748: 745: 743: 740: 739: 735: 732: 729: 726: 723: 720: 717: 714: 711: 708: 705: 702: 700: 697: 696: 692: 689: 686: 683: 680: 677: 674: 671: 668: 665: 662: 659: 657: 654: 653: 649: 646: 643: 640: 637: 634: 631: 628: 625: 622: 619: 616: 614: 611: 610: 606: 603: 600: 597: 594: 591: 588: 585: 582: 579: 576: 573: 571: 566: 563: 561: 557: 553: 550: 547: 544: 541: 538: 535: 532: 529: 526: 523: 520: 517: 516: 510: 494: 491: 490: 479: 478: 477: 473: 469: 465: 464: 463: 459: 455: 452: 448: 447: 446: 445: 441: 437: 429: 421: 417: 413: 408: 404: 403: 402: 398: 394: 390: 389: 388: 384: 380: 376: 375: 374: 373: 369: 365: 361: 353: 345: 341: 337: 333: 329: 325: 321: 320: 319: 315: 311: 307: 303: 299: 295: 291: 287: 283: 282:good articles 279: 278: 277: 273: 269: 265: 261: 257: 256:good articles 253: 252: 251: 250: 246: 242: 237: 233: 225: 221: 217: 213: 209: 208: 207: 206: 202: 198: 190: 186: 182: 178: 174: 170: 169: 168: 165: 161: 157: 153: 149: 137: 133: 129: 125: 120: 119: 118: 117: 113: 109: 105: 101: 93: 87: 84: 82: 79: 77: 74: 71: 67: 65: 62: 61: 53: 49: 45: 44: 39: 32: 31: 23: 19: 3439: 3393:— Preceding 3390: 3387: 3384: 3381: 3280:Bladeboy1889 3223:Bladeboy1889 3187: 3171:Bladeboy1889 3149: 3107: 3090: 3088: 3074: 3069: 3066: 3064: 3058: 3034: 3029: 3026: 3024: 3003: 2989:we have got 2979: 2957:Copa América 2811:Copa América 2774: 2773: 2760: 2741: 2724: 2720: 2716: 2695: 2666: 2648: 2643: 2622: 2603: 2579: 2546: 2499:— Preceding 2496: 2493: 2490: 2487: 2386:Bladeboy1889 2329:Bladeboy1889 2293: 2277:Bladeboy1889 2255: 2234: 2217: 2215: 2188: 2017: 1999: 1962:along a line 1961: 1954: 1916: 1897: 1888:Appearances 1871:Appearances 1867: 1855: 1804:Copa del Rey 1790: 488: 487: 433: 357: 331: 327: 229: 194: 146:— Preceding 141: 104:Lionel Messi 100:Wayne Rooney 97: 69: 47: 41: 2941:Bronze Boot 2910:Bronze Shoe 2902:Golden Ball 2800:Individual 2115:My 2 cents: 2059:Chris Burke 2057:I just saw 489:Old Version 302:Joey Barton 294:Micky Adams 286:Xabi Alonso 260:Luke Foster 40:This is an 3449:League Cup 3206:Thanks! -- 2945:Dream Team 2906:Dream Team 2649:References 2644:particular 2312:Thanks! -- 2158:Ryan Giggs 2040:Matt Green 1987:necessary. 1984:League Cup 1800:League Cup 264:Lee Hughes 143:escalate? 3443:Includes 3099:WP:ACCESS 2922:World Cup 2816:Argentina 2226:WP:ACCESS 2195:Liga BBVA 2124:9. Other. 2093:Thanks!-- 1794:Includes 1589:Barcelona 1209:Division 955:Barcelona 518:Division 86:Archive 5 81:Archive 4 76:Archive 3 70:Archive 2 64:Archive 1 3395:unsigned 3249:WP:FOOTY 3190:convert 3152:WT:FOOTY 3132:Demt1298 3127:Struway2 3112:Struway2 3108:if it is 3101:because 3021:WT:FOOTY 2729:Struway2 2717:Struway2 2654:Struway2 2501:unsigned 2355:WP:FOOTY 2296:convert 2258:WT:FOOTY 2239:Struway2 2235:if it is 2228:because 2165:Miunouta 2095:Miunouta 2036:Struway2 2021:Struway2 1936:Miunouta 1900:Miunouta 1806:matches. 1680:La Liga 1640:La Liga 554:Assists 545:Assists 536:Assists 527:Assists 468:Miunouta 451:WP:FOOTY 436:Miunouta 412:Struway2 393:Miunouta 364:Miunouta 336:Struway2 310:Miunouta 290:Ben Amos 241:Miunouta 173:WT:FOOTY 160:contribs 152:LilOwens 148:unsigned 108:Mentoz86 20:‎ | 3423:Jaellee 3346:Jaellee 3297:Snowman 3270:Snowman 3253:Jaellee 3240:Snowman 3208:Jaellee 3199:Snowman 3156:Jaellee 3049:Snowman 2848:England 2797:Result 2688:Snowman 2625:Baaarny 2610:Baaarny 2598:Michael 2572:Snowman 2529:Jaellee 2452:Jaellee 2403:Snowman 2376:Snowman 2359:Jaellee 2346:Snowman 2314:Jaellee 2305:Snowman 2262:Jaellee 2132:Jaellee 2000:only if 1676:2013–14 1636:2012–13 1599:La Liga 1594:2011–12 1517:2010–11 1480:2009–10 1443:2008–09 1406:2007–08 1369:2006–07 1329:2005–06 1289:2004–05 1250:2003–04 1245:Arsenal 1190:League 1187:Season 1051:2013–14 1008:2012–13 965:La Liga 960:2011–12 871:2010–11 828:2009–10 785:2008–09 742:2007–08 699:2006–07 656:2005–06 613:2004–05 565:2003–04 560:Arsenal 502:League 499:Season 212:Jaellee 177:Jaellee 43:archive 22:Players 3445:FA Cup 3075:(talk) 3035:(talk) 3015:Ksihoo 3006:Ksihoo 2982:Qed237 2927:Brazil 2882:Brazil 2844:London 2794:Goals 2788:Place 2785:Event 2764:Neymar 2063:JMHamo 2045:JMHamo 1980:FA Cup 1796:FA Cup 1715:Total 1553:Total 1239:Goals 1233:Goals 1227:Goals 1221:Goals 1215:Goals 1204:Total 1201:Other 1197:Europe 1093:Total 913:Total 551:Goals 542:Goals 533:Goals 524:Goals 513:Total 509:Europe 454:JMHamo 379:JMHamo 328:may be 268:JMHamo 197:MicroX 3294:Giant 3267:Giant 3237:Giant 3196:Giant 3188:dared 3184:Voila 3091:can't 3046:Giant 2962:Chile 2791:Apps 2782:Year 2685:Giant 2569:Giant 2400:Giant 2373:Giant 2343:Giant 2302:Giant 2294:dared 2290:Voila 2218:can't 2199:RRD13 1966:yo-yo 1920:club? 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