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2520:@ Cckerberos -- yes, you acknowledge very clear, objective point-of-facts. This is English Knowledge and anyone can read the linked text in the published version of treaties in English. Also, you acknowledge the other published source support which can be readily verified. In light of what I've already written, it's hard for me to know what else is required. What is to be done when the dispute boils down to research which produces verified facts vs. __________? I'm puzzled by quibbles which marginalize
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1935:, but I am being reverted by three editors, one of whom called me a "loser" in Korean in his edit summary, another who does not give a coherent explanation for his reverts, and the last of whom is blasting me as a "nationalist", without providing evidence, and seems to have admitted on the talk page that he didn't actually read my edit before reverting it. I'm not really sure what's going on here but I welcome other eyes on this article.
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Apparently the name
Tsukamoto Sōichi, NHK's Seoul bureau chief, was found on the membership list of a NK propaganda website. NHK said this was for informational purposes since there were parts of the site that could only be viewed by registered users. Everything I found on this was from about a month
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and tick the box at the end of the page, where it says "Enable VisualEditor (only in the main namespace and the User namespace)". Save the preferences, and then try fixing a few typos or copyediting a few articles by using the new "Edit" tab instead of the section buttons or the old editing window
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with one particular issue: Japanese naming conventions. For example, Ghost in the Shell japanese cover shows as "攻殻機動隊" with "The Ghost in the Shell" under it. And because of this
Ryulong includes "The Ghost in the Shell" alongisde the kanji within the nihongo template. So it looks like Ghost in the
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are explicitly explained with cite support. What part of it did you not understand? The two articles mirror what research finds in unambiguous
English language sources. In other words, why is it necessary to point out that the Japan-US treaty and the Japan-UK treaty were not about rice, not about
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be turned on for new users until common reference styles and citation templates are supported). These more complex features are being worked on, and the code will be updated as things are worked out. Also, right now you can only use it for articles and user pages. When it's deployed in July, the
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About 2,000 editors have tried out this early test version so far, and feedback overall has been positive. Right now, the VisualEditor is available only to registered users who opt-in, and it's a bit slow and limited in features. You can do all the basic things like writing or changing sentences,
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I'm sorry you feel these are quibbles, as they seem quite important to me. A statement that "some
Japanese" used an expression which indirectly shows that those Japanese regarded the Ryūkyū Kingdom as a Shimazu province does not show that Ryūkyū Province existed as a formal government entity from
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Also, if any of you are involved in template maintenance or documentation about how to edit pages, the VisualEditor will require some extra attention. The devs want to incorporate things like citation templates directly into the editor, which means that they need to know what information goes in
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2. I touched on this briefly during the earlier discussion, but it's worth mentioning again as it was the focus of
Japanese Knowledge's decision to delete: there really doesn't seem to be much evidence for the formal existence of a "Ryūkyū Province". Yes, the term appears in the English language
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That's been going on for quite awhile, with an abundance of finger-pointing, arguing, and pouting over who the wokou were, their nationalities, who they attacked, etc. Check out the archives and you will see a stunning cascade of protracted debates. I decided to steer clear because I don't know
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3. Even if the province was established following the Meiji incorporation of
Okinawa into Japan, it seems doubtful that it was a formal province of Japan before that. Some 17th century Japanese colloquially referring to Ryukyu as one the Shimazu provinces isn't much in the way of evidence. In
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A broader range of participants may be needed? With this in mind, we could restore the text which has been removed; and we could add an AfD headnote. As a general rule, the process for starting an AfD discussion begins with creating a venue like this:
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If the
Japanese Knowledge has found no sources that mention the subject, then why should we keep its associated page? We do not have to go through all the hoops to just deal with this one issue, being your refusal to let the page go
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4. It's really hard to search for this, as "Ryūkyū Province" would be written the same way as the "country of Ryūkyū" is. But I can't help feeling that if such a province had existed, it wouldn't be so hard to find evidence of it.
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or not. At the moment, I'm trying to compile a list of books and academic papers that refer to
Manchukuo as a "puppet state". If anyone would like to help with expanding the list, please add a few more sources to the list at
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on the use of official broadcast dates used by
Japanese television stations and other sources versus the actual broadcast dates in articles regarding Japanese TV shows. For reference, the original discussion at WT:ANIME is
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No, the term "edit war" is an inappropriate label here. Please recall that I started this thread. This tends to undercut the rationale for using the derisive term "edit war." More importantly, our movement towards
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1996:) when using nihongo template. I've attempted to explain to the editor that there are no japanese reliable sources (or any source) includes "The Ghost in the Shell" with the kanji unlike previous adaptations
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in which its title is "攻殻機動隊 Ghost in the Shell". I know this sounds difficult to follow. But basically there's no proof that "The Ghost in the Shell" is part of the
Japanese title for the original manga.
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For those of you who haven't noticed, it looks like the TedderBot, which was long out of business, is back and the listing of new articles on Japan has resumed. Finally! Glad to see it back in business.
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What we need to do is compare the utility of having two highly related articles, in this case the Province and Domain, as their histories are concurrent, or separated by only a few years difference.—
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creating or changing section headings, and editing simple bulleted lists. It currently can't either add or remove templates (like fact tags), ref tags, images, categories, or tables (and it will
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to discourage listing non-English names of subjects in the lede sentence of articles, and to encourage moving them to an infobox or footnote. As I understand it, the current practice of
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You've repeatedly edit warred over your preferred two-article system despite people disagreeing with you many times over the course of 2 months. Maybe you should give it a rest.—
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It won't be good if a wrong fact appears on the main page of Knowledge. By my calculations, my hook is due to appear on the main page in less than 11 hours. It is here already:
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which examines the fact that they have no proof that "琉球国" was ever used in Japanese court documents. So stop restoring your content fork based on an ancient misunderstanding.—
2684:. Your edit forces anyone to ask where is this so-called "consensus"? What is is based on? Without more, your revert appears to be based on nothing more than an unexplained
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to include the Japanese name in the lede sentence, so this change may affect a large number of articles under your project. Your comments are welcome on the discussion at
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treaties, but I can't find the corresponding Japanese texts to confirm what the Japanese usage was. I would not be surprised to learn that 藩 was translated as province.
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is designed to let people edit without needing to learn wikitext syntax. The articles will look (nearly) the same in the new edit "window" as when you read them (aka
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However, I am having trouble finding secondary sources in English about this company. Is anyone good at looking for info in Japanese from secondary sources? Thanks
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The "consensus" of published and cited sources is acknowledged, is it not? This tends to undercut the rationale for using the derisive term "content fork".
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There seems to be a lot of stuff on Twitter about NHK somehow spying for the North Koreans, I can't make out what the issue is, has anyone else seen this?--
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There's a very minor problem, but someone who speaks Japanese is needed to assure the administrator that my version of what the source says is correct.
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of the page). See what works and what doesn't. We really need people who will try this out on 10 or 15 pages and then leave a note
1889:(DH Publishing, Inc., ディ・エイチ・パブリシング株式会社), a Japanese company that publishes English language books in the US. One of the sources for
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I changed the notes to Harvard citation. I think I did it correctly, but if anyone has a moment to check, it would be appreciated.
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Knowledge talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Proposal: move most translations and transliterations from lead sentence to footnote
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Is this the wrong venue? Perhaps we will be better able to establish common ground in the context of a wider discussion at
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is unreasonable. In the context created in this venue, your reasoning is heedless. The so-called "consensus" you mention
2650:@ Ryulong -- no, this is not about best guesses. Perhaps it will help you to review the two non-congruent categories -- (a)
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old editor will still be available and, in fact, the old edit window will be the only option for talk pages (I believe that
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rarely see that style used. Personally I remain convinced that nothing has significant benefits over a simple <ref..: -->
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about their experiences, especially if something mission-critical isn't working and doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar.
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When did you make this? The book has "攻殻機動隊 THE GHOST IN THE SHELL" on its cover in Japan. I think that's pretty clear.—
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I am trying to work with you. If I understand correctly, your point of view is consistent with Johannes Rein. (1894).
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Let's try to agree that this discussion thread is not about my opinion or your opinion. Can we start by agreeing that
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in which some argue that the article about the province should not exist. In other words, some argue in effect that
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OK, I've raised it on the talk page. If there's no reply in about a week or when I get round to it, I'll change them.
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which fields. Obviously, the screenshots and instructions for basic editing will need to be completely updated.
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Apparently Benlisquare didn't bother alerting all of the projects listed on that talk page. Here's the message:
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A digest of international law as embodied in diplomatic discussions, treaties and other international agreements
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A digest of international law as embodied in diplomatic discussions, treaties and other international agreements
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that has its japanese title as "Ghost in the Shell/攻殻機動隊" (despite the cover NOT having a "/" on the logo) and
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What appears to be Shinkai Shaw's point-of-view is inconsistent with what research makes plain. For example,
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1. Although I see you've made a number of edits to the two articles, their content is still almost identical.
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If you have questions and can't find a better place to ask them, then please feel free to leave a message on
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2592:. In this old general interest book, for example, the Ryūkyū Islands are described as a principality and a
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contrast, I've never seen Ryūkyū included in any of the Edo period atlases, surveys, etc., that I've seen.
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currently expect to deploy the VisualEditor as the new site-wide default editing system in early July 2013
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The developers are asking editors like you to join the alpha testing for the VisualEditor. Please go to
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style, with the book in plain text at the bottom. If you want to change them raise it on the talk page.
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1967:. Sources are being removed, and unsourced lists of Japanese samurai "culprits" added, over and over.
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In a conventional AfD discussion, it would not be off-topic to cite US Department of State. (1906).
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converted the province article into a redirect. The edit summary which explained this was brief -- "
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1759:. Working Papers in Japanese Studies. Vol. 8. Japanese Studies Center, Monash University, Australia.
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is explicitly recognized in the English language text of treaties in 1894 (a) between Japan and the
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are quite distracting. Can anyone see a good reason for the notes being the way they are? --
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It would be better to focus on the consensus among cited sources rather than other issues.
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I'm afraid they don't have any more of a web presence in Japanese than they do in English.
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They are ghastly, aren't they! But someone did them that way, I think User:Fleetham. You
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Seeing that this does fall under this project's scope I am linking the discussion
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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enough about the subject and the editors involved are bitterly relentless.
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Maybe this venue can generate a wider discussion which leads to consensus?
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If this needs further discussion, then this may be a good venue for it. --
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MOS discussion about removing non-Roman script names from lede sentence
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but you have also been the one person causing this problem since March
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2658:. The distinction is not meaningless. In specific, the two sets of
2406:-- is defined by location. In contrast, Ryūkyū Domain -- like other
2442:. This factor was not considered in the decision-making process at
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2578:. Do you not agree that all Japanese provinces and domains have
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ago and it doesn't seem to have made it to the mainstream media.
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Japanese history distinguishes these closely related articles:
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2851:{{subst:afd2 | pg=Ryūkyū Province | cat=I | text=<br/: -->
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exists. In other words, I see no good reasons for excluding
2392:(1609-1947) has a centuries long history which starts in 1609
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1609 (if you want to argue that the Ryūkyūs were regarded a
2133:(aka Echo) is ultimately supposed to deal with talk pages).
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2557:@ Cckerberos -- Thank you for this helpful clarification.
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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Japan#Ryūkyū province and domain
2933:
Please try again to make your point of view understood at
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Please try again to make your point of view understood at
2266:. Any input is appreciated. Thank you and happy editing.
2164:, and perhaps together we'll be able to figure it out.
1734:, It is distracting. The problem can be solved by using
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is fundamental in the on-going work of our project? --
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just to send it to AFD. Stop disrupting the project.—
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In order to better understand, this may be helpful:
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WP talk:WikiProject Japan#Ryūkyū province and domain
1757:The Image of Christ in the Fiction of Endō Shūsaku
2935:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Ryūkyū Province
2605:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Ryūkyū Province
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2037:WikiProject Hentai a task force? RfC discussion
1963:I requested semi-protection for the article on
3113:There is an ongoing discussion about amending
2402:It matters that Ryūkyū Province -- like other
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2179:Correction: Talk pages are being replaced by
2257:Konnichiwa WikiProject Japan. I have started
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2680:can only be made up of something other than
2571:-- compare Shinkai Shaw's deletion edit at
1680:User talk:Amberrock#DYK for Team Syachihoko
2559:My only concern is that the article about
2138:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
1674:Help with DYK for Team Syachihoko (urgent)
2878:(John Bassett Moore, ed.), Vol. 5, p. 759
2543:province of Japan, that'd be different).
2440:(John Bassett Moore, ed.), Vol. 5, p. 759
2825:You don't need AFD to discuss a merge.—
1885:I am considering writing an article on
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3115:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Lead section
3036:It's currently being disputed whether
2720:And perhaps you should take a look at
1931:I tried to add sources to the article
48:Do not edit the contents of this page.
3077:Please participate if interested. ···
2952:You shouldn't have restored the page
2923:is like a chicken talking to a duck (
2867:despite cited sources in the article
2204:image:Japan Re-entry Permit Cover.png
2155:The old edit window is not going away
1992:Shell (攻殻機動隊 The Ghost in the Shell,
1987:I've been having several issues with
1893:is a book published by this company.
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2410:-- is defined in terms of terms of (
2238:have been nominated for deletion --
2206:has been nominated for deletion --
3047:Talk:Manchukuo#NPOV "puppet state"
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1994:Kokaku Kidotai Gosuto In Za Sheru
2435:US Department of State. (1906).
2259:a discussion at the Village pump
1678:Could someone please come here:
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18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Japan
2288:were discussed and archived at
2253:A discussion on broadcast dates
2199:Japan Re-entry Permit Cover.png
2147:Knowledge:VisualEditor/Feedback
2002:Ghost in the Shell (video game)
1983:How to determine Japanese title
1755:Morton, Leith (November 1994).
2588:Japan: Travels and Researches,
2427:and (b) between Japan and the
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2672:@ Ryulong -- no, your revert
2628:Ansei, these are effectively
1690:Template:Did you know/Queue/2
2747:is not helped by this label.
2489:There are a few issues here:
2047:Knowledge:WikiProject Hentai
1881:Notability of DH Publishing?
1730:As the current article uses
1303:Districts and municipalities
3018:concerning this article --
2865:Category:Provinces of Japan
2652:Category:Provinces of Japan
2573:Template:Japan Old Province
2569:Category:Provinces of Japan
2451::ja:Knowledge:削除依頼/琉球国 (令制)
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2301:Japanese Knowledge deleted
2295:In May 2013, Shinkai Shaw
2276:Ryūkyū province and domain
2045:. The question is should
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1959:23:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
1943:12:36, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
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1832:Morton, 1 <../ref: -->
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3010:FYI, there's a notice at
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1998:Ghost in the Shell (film)
1927:Strange edit war going on
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2771:You started this thread
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2466:23:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
2271:10:19, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
2248:04:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
1384:Royalty & nobility (
1247:Task force talk/archives
2921:Talking past each other
2686:intensity of preference
2216:00:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
2193:14:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
2174:01:08, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
2098:11:47, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
2082:07:28, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
2063:00:58, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
2032:16:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
1975:15:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
1921:08:56, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
1906:00:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
1871:00:56, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
1702:21:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
2600:but not as a province.
2104:VisualEditor is coming
68:
2049:be a taskforce under
1507:Related talk/archives
67:
46:of past discussions.
1745:Aaaaaaaa. Bbbbbbbb.
1639:Search the archives:
2580:inherent notability
1494:Jun 2007 – Sep 2008
77:& archives for
2416:), not land area.
2404:provinces of Japan
1732:Grouping footnotes
1707:Shusaku Endo notes
1432:= joint task force
1322:Military history (
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2268:Narutolovehinata5
2162:my user talk page
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1749:Bibliography
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1713:Shūsaku Endō
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1489:Jan–Jun 2007
1484:Jun–Dec 2006
1479:Feb–May 2006
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2356:ja:琉球国 (令制)
2006:Lucia Black
1898:WhisperToMe
1811:Phoenix7777
1578:Square Enix
1449:All of 2004
1344:Mythology (
40:This is an
3135:. Thanks,
3121:is to use
2545:Cckerberos
2506:Cckerberos
2373:Ryūkyū han
2090:Cckerberos
1951:Boneyard90
1913:Cckerberos
1774:References
1742:(Example)
1370:Politics (
3038:Manchukuo
3006:Manchukuo
2993:Michitaro
2986:TedderBot
1588:Tokusatsu
1422:Transwiki
3119:WP:JAPAN
3064:contribs
3016:WT:CHINA
2666:kokudaka
2654:and (b)
2590:pp. 8-11
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1363:Owarai (
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1972:(tock)
1965:WP:RPP
1940:(tock)
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1799:Morton
1789:, p. 1
1787:Morton
1598:Trains
1277:Cinema
3067:email
2955:again
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2888:Ansei
2812:Ansei
2758:Ansei
2690:Ansei
2609:Ansei
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3141:talk
3061:Talk
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1761:ISBN
1721:talk
1698:talk
1692:. --
1560:Sumo
1290:CJKV
1189:2023
1124:2022
1059:2021
994:2020
929:2019
864:2018
799:2017
734:2016
669:2015
604:2014
539:2013
474:2012
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344:2010
279:2009
214:2008
149:2007
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75:Talk
3080:日本穣
2927:or
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