Knowledge

talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/March 2012 - Knowledge

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65: 3526:| ?in addition to your materials? | completed and handed over on the 19th day of the tenth month of Angen 2 (1176) | great Busshi Kōkei's | true apprentice, Unkei". Could someone please correct this - in particular I don't really get the functioning of 承 (1st line 3rd character); the whole of the third line 已上御身料也; the significance/cation of the calendrical marker 申丙, which I have omitted; and also a translation I've found of the last two lines says Kokei's true apprentice, great busshi Unkei - ie. Great Busshi - of Kokei | the true apprentice - Unkei; is this to be preferred to great busshi Kokei's true apprentice Unkei? Thanks a lot, 35: 2827:
the country. Is she notable? J.Wiki has a whole Momoe template, and information on even her lamest outputs. E.Wiki has an article which was mostly just fan babblign until recently. But with the weight of Oda Mari behind using "Yamaguchi", I suppose I will just have to revert it back to this naming, because there is no point arguing on and on. Let's put it back to Yamaguchi and maybe I will add a note about her usually being called Momoe.
2806:. But our article name is Hirohito because that's the most common name in en speaking countries. If Momoe is as widely used as Hirohito in en, it would be acceptable. Actually it is not. It is meaningless to compare what name other WPs use. At the same time, the most common name is not necessarily appropriate to use in encyclopedia. I think Fergie is the most commonly used name in en, but it is a nickname and our article 2998: 2992: 2552:: The article used "Momoe" consistently from when it was created until quite recently when Hoary changed it to "Yamaguchi". I am sure Hoary's edits were in good faith, but I don't think Hoary was much aware of her until editing the article. I think most people who know of this person's career would automatically use the name "Momoe" for her. Japanese Knowledge also uses her first name. 3353:
More colloquially in ja, I'd say "Ann wa anata/you no koto/about (o), baka/fool datte ittetayo/said". I use "anata" for you. But it is replaceable. It depends on what you directly call Bob as there are many ways to say "you" in ja like "kimi", "omae", "anta", etc. Boneyard90, it's more natural to use
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I don't know anything about Akina Nakamori, so I cannot say how she is usually referred to, but I notice that the Japanese Knowledge also calls her "Nakamori". I don't think the blood type argument invalidates the point that this performer (Momoe) is universally referred to by her first name. Even if
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Perhaps we can assume good faith in the creation of this article: Kagohara is definitely a neighborhood within Kumagaya (there is a Kagohara Minami just south of Kagohara Station). But there is no Kagohara City 籠原市 as cited in the article. Unless there is significant reason to have an article on what
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I have never offered what Japanese wikipedia uses as an argument for what to call her. I just pointed this out as one example of the fact she is universally called by her first name. One huge problem with this article is that the subject is one of the most famous people in Japan, yet unknown outside
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of the kana articles (the only ones that haven't been hit are ゐ, ゑ, and ン), revert them on sight (it's a good excuse to break out the mass rollback feature) and report them to AIV, or if you're an admin give an extended block to the IP on sight. Last time this IP added these examples no one noticed
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Yes, that's right. Well, my resident native informant is now watching a DVD and so I don't want to bother her with questions, but in the meantime my non-native intuition is that the Japanese equivalent of "Ann says 'He is stupid'", where "he" is the current addressee, is possible, but that it would
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I'm not sure whether this is sarcasm, but that would be an error. Tomokazu Miura is often referred to as Tomokazu when in combination with Momoe, but he isn't usually referred to as Tomokazu outside that context, so there is no special reason to call him by his first name rather than his last name.
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Well, when I came to do it, I couldn't find anything meaningful to say about Japanese that wouldn't seem like getting bogged down within what is actually a very general and loosely worded section (which doesn't mention any other languages explicitly either). If anyone can do better, please have a
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Once again thanks for everyone's efforts. My conclusion (I don't know if you agree) is that the statement in the article that "the speaker is free to change the pronoun or..." is oversimplified and misleading, as it implies that Japanese has pronouns that funtion more or less the same as typical
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There is no issue of whether she can pronounce the letter "l". Her name includes some kind of /r/. Narrowly, it's likely to be , but it could well be something else. She chooses to have it written as "l". It's a matter of orthography, not pronunciation. (Of academic interest only: If speakers of
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Some of you may recall an issue with an IP adding bizarre examples to kana articles some months ago. Just an FYI, he's still at it intermittently from other IPs now (I blocked his base IP for a year in December). If you see an IP adding Super Mario characters or other video game references as
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It's ridiculous. If some plutocrats have parked their yachts at marina the other side of the Pacific and an unusually large wave bashes them against each other or the jetty, little wonder if the insurance company is billed over $ 100,000. But meanwhile, dozens of Japanese towns and suburbs (or
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I'm not sure if that's it... See, the TF:Mythology has a category that collects all the Mythology articles, and TF:Food & Drink has one, and I think Tokyo. The TF:Military History does, but that's because it's part of WP:Mil History, not WP:Japan. The others don't or I can't find them. I'm
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The reason they don't point to any categories is because they don't exist. If you create the categories or find ones which already exist, point them out on the talk page of the template and adjustments can be made to the template to include them. As others have mentioned, they just need to be
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Looking forward to that article. I checked the few sources I have but unfortunately there is nothing about that sculpture. BTW, thanks for yesterday's/today's images. Too bad there isn't enough space to use all of them in the tables. But now that you started to write articles about all NT
3147:, which shows that the population trend of Chiba has reversed and is now falling. A search in asahi.com for 千葉 and 地震 together should provide more data. But I lack the time and energy to pursue this. Meanwhile, no WP policy bars ridiculousness. If somebody wants to create a list showing 3178:
I take this to mean that if someone says "I'm hungry", and I want to report that fact, I can either say (in Japanese) "He says he's hungry" or "He says I'm hungry" (meaning the same in both cases). Is this right? Can someone provide an example of this in Japanese? Thanks for any help,
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Do you have an example of "Yamaguchi"? Perhaps in an obituary she would be referred to as "Yamaguchi", but I suspect that even an obituary would refer to her as "Momoe", or maybe "Yamaguchi Momoe", or "Miura Momoe" (her actual name), but calling her "Yamaguchi" seems too weird to me.
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Victor Yus has a legitimate question about Japanese in order to improve an article, and very reasonably supposes that informed and helpful people might be found hereabouts. (Me, I'd like to be helpful, but my advice is probably not worth much.) Is there some problem? --
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To Victor, Japanese also makes more common use of names in conversation, rather than pronouns, even when talking to someone. Pronouns carry different feelings (polite, casual, intimate). Names are neutral. So in your example, you might say to Bob, "Ann says Bob is
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Danger: Non-native speaking. Please wait for Oda Mari or similar to speak up. In the meantime, yes, either is possible, but either would be very strained. In Japanese the subject or topic is normally dropped when pragmatically inferrable. English:
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Update; the kana vandal made another raid last night, which I've cleaned up from; all the IPs were on the 198.228.201.0/24 range, which I've blocked for 31 hours. Keep an eye out for that range and other AT&T ranges in the future.
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Like sections within the same article? That seems reasonable, as there are only two other countries, and Indonesia has only one listing (I think). Maybe "Japan" and "Other". But surely not a separate article for the other
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by way of an example. I'll also mention the general pro-drop case as Hoary suggested. That seems to be as much as I can do; if any of you guys feel like adding a section on indirect speech in Japanese any time, either in
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from "Akina" to "Nakamori".) I'm willing to believe that there's some good reason why this encyclopedia should call her "Momoe", but this wouldn't be its use by ja:WP. (I regret my low regard for ja:WP, but when
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Well, for an encyclopedia to call her "Momoe" seems too weird to me (and I think to Oda Mari as well); this kind of rhetoric will take us nowhere. I see no reason why an example of 山口 need be produced, but
1378: 2620:, he's once called 木村拓哉, several times called 木村, but in the headline called キムタク. But a simple solution: That we should ignore all this, unless somebody really does go by just one name, such as Madonna, 1256: 3518:); I have found a transcription: 運慶承 安元元年十一月廿四日始之 | 給料物上品八丈絹肆拾参疋也 | 已上御身料也 | 奉渡安元弐申丙十月十九日 | 大仏師康慶 | 実弟子運慶 and have attempted a translation: "Unkei ?notes?: begun on the 24th day of the eleventh month of 3431:
English-language pronouns, which appears not to be the case. I'm going to try editing it to just say that some languages don't have comparable pronoun systems, and give a link to the pronouns section of
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needed? Let's say Ann (talking about Bob) says "He's stupid". Presumably if I want to report this single statement to Bob, I can't tell him "Ann says (he's) stupid", I would have to say "Ann says
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There seems to be no awareness here of the notion that the pronoun is superfluous in many languages. You don't have to venture to such exotic (?) languages as Japanese to find this: the pronoun
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52 images? I'd fancy that. I noticed that for some (groups of) sculptures you created separate categories, which I think is a very good idea, particularly if there is more than one image.
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so I can include more of the things specifically about wagasa which I'm interested in. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any references about keeping a sword up the handled.
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and her death news, she has been calling Houston. I don't call her Momoe nor Momoe chan, I call her Yamaguchi Momoe. Off the topic though, don't you have a loading problem? See
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I agree with Hoary. It's not encyclopedic to use Momoe. Waido show, tabloids, and fans/fan sites may use Momoe, but I don't think major news papers/programs use it. Think about
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I gave it a copyediting whack, but probably could use another set of eyes. The most obvious deficiency is the lack of sources sources, if anyone has anything on the subject.
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template. If there are categories that exist, but the template isn't supporting them, just post on the talk page of the template and they can be fixed from there. ···
64: 3541:承 is comply or accept (an order of the statue). 已上御身料也 is That's all for the payment of the statue. It's 丙申/heishin/へいしん, not 申丙, and it's a stem-branch cycle. See 1937:. In the second set of results, there's a listing for 籠原駅, a JR station there, but the text says that it's in Kumagaya. So to that end, I'd support the redirect. — 3143:"cities", as we're supposed to call them) were seriously damaged, if not dramatically enough to register in anglophone infotainment. There's a big hint of this in 1581: 3027:
I added some rather nice creative commons licenced pictures to the article but in the end that whole page is a bit horrible so I decided to start my own article
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I was aware of her, actually. (Off the top of my head: She's from the Pink Lady period, predating Matsuda Seiko and Nakamori Akina. And yes, I also perpetrated
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Redirected to Kumagaya. The article was created over two years ago by a user with no other contributions, so I don't see much point in trying to contact them.
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English pronounce it as "l", they'll mispronounce it; if they pronounce it as any of the normal realizations of English /r/, they'll also mispronounce it.) --
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It was said above that "Kagohara is definitely a neighborhood within Kumagaya", which would seem to make it a valid redirect. You're welcome to take it to
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Can we divide this into sections by country? It doesn't seem right to equate mere property damage in the US with the astounding loss of lives in Japan.--
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was a town (白河町) before it became a city, but that is in Fukushima Prefecture. I would recommend PRODing as a hoax and removing the entry from the
2531:", etc, and (to my mind) rightly so. ("Madonna" is a slightly different matter, and I don't want to get into the matter of Icelandic names, etc.) 1900:
I couldn't see why anyone would object, except maybe the article's creator. Couldn't hurt to check with him/her and ask if he plans to expand it.
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than is plain "Yamaguchi", and thus finds "Yamaguchi" intolerable. And finds permission in the relevant guideline to disobey the intolerable.
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recent version, by someone with fluency in Japanese and experience dealing with editor-made translations at Knowledge. Thanks for your time.
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As I said I have no idea what Akina Nakamori is called, I do not know anything about her, but the very article you point to has a head line
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a category, but how do articles of Japanese Food & Drink Task Force, or Mythology, when tagged, get moved to the appropriate category?
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All would certainly be lovely, if time-consuming; now have a great full set of bosatsu on clouds from 1926 if you fancy sharing the load!
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Another dubious article: no sources or geodata, and I can't find any such town on the Japanese Knowledge. Is this an actual town or not?
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The wikiproject banner needs switches activated to enable categorization for the TFs, and the categories themselves have to be created.
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looking at . Look at the "sub-categories". There's only three. What do we have to do to get all of the task forces organized like that?
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Me, I'd agree with the first half of the first assertion above but would rule it irrelevant. Knowledge talks of "Presley", "Monroe", "
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Ah, you are absolutely correct, I did not know what switches were in this context. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
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Hello, I'm preparing a page on Unkei's NT sculpture of Dainichi Nyorai; on the pedestal there is an inscription (image may be found
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Here I am. Hoary is correct. There's nothing wrong his post...No, I found one. "'s" in "Why's" is not needed. I guess it's typo.
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has an excessive list of celebrities and fictional characters listed as Hafu with no sources should they be removed. Secondly
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Is this a legitimate article or a hoax? There is no entry on the Japanese Knowledge for 籠原市 and the coordinates given are for
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I take your word for it; my knowledge of Japanese (or other) celebs is sketchy. But yes, Matsuyama. He seems to be a chum of
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is, um, a quotative complementizer, perhaps -- sorry, no time to think about this right now; I'll be back after dinner. --
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you google for something about her quilt exhibits, as a woman in her fifties, she is still referred to as "Momoe-chan".
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That's a good point that should be mentioned. But to return to Japanese, what if we have a situation where the pronoun
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Why redirect? I disagree with it as there has never been such a city. Redirect is misleading. Just simply delete it.
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Is there any way we can create a category listing sub-categories of articles divided by task force, like does for
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IMO, this RM raises questions far beyond the issue of whether a star of Japanese hardcore can pronounce the letter
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Since you don't seem to know what "switches" are, you're going to have to learn template coding first, so go to
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until another editor had edited most of the individual kana pages, and it was a nightmare to clean them all up.
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I first asked for citations and then (tried to) remove the above incredible statement from an article called
3176:"However, in Japanese, among other languages, the speaker is free to change the pronoun or leave it as is." 2807: 2404: 2374: 2224: 2176: 3239:
However, in Japanese, among other languages, the speaker is free to change the pronoun or leave it as is.
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Thank you for agreeing to use "Yamaguchi". Yes, it's worth saying that she's often called "Momoe". --
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be as marked as the English is (note the internal single question marks, for special intonation). --
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The discussion could benefit from a review of the accuracy of these translations as it appeared in
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Not so simple. I looked in asahi.com. My sample is tiny and very likely unrepresentative, but in
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re stupid", right? Or does Japanese have a different way of handling situations like this?--
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who are noted for making Hafus fashionable does anyone have additional information on them?
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Comment/judgment/vote by editors with knowledge of ja and Japan are needed. Thank you.
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In case you don't know the usual name for Tomokazu Miura is "Momoe-chan no danna san".
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Strange that the article was suddenly created as recently as March 2011. A search on
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Hi, this AfD about a form of Japanese poetry could use expert attention. Thanks,
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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1 (1175) | for payment of forty-three lengths of superior quality silk from
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Another editor judges plain "Momoe" a hugely more popular name in Japan for
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and read the documentation concerning templates. Read the documentation for
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Looks just like one of the hundreds, maybe thousands of stubs I've assessed.
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for each claim that a place lost $ 100,000 or one human life, why not? --
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What's his problem? Why's he moaning all the time? / He says he's hungry.
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needs quite a bit of work, if anyone at Wikiproject Japan is interested.
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That's great, thanks a lot for the corrections and the v.helpful links,
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It seems I'm a bit late but here is a relevant guideline for the topic,
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What Japanese call her is irrelevant here as this is en WP. How about
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CNN just posted an article about radiation and food safety in Japan.
2675:'s an article that calls him 松山 in the text but 千春 in the title. -- 2480:
accused of "disruptive editing" and told that I would "be reported"
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Knowledge:Miscellany for deletion/User:BradTraylor/Battle of Imizu
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I didn't know he was asking the question to improve the article.
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I went over to the Japanese Wiki, searched, and found nothing:
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What's his problem? Why's moaning all the time? / Says hungry.
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For what it's worth, there's no Japanese Wiki equivalent. —
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Gogyōka (2nd nomination)
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The idiomatic Japanese equivalent is rather closer to:
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There are two articles I feel need sorting the article
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Yes, my English is collapsing, sorry. But back to the
2197:"Switches"... So I guess I just don't get an answer. 2885:
Knowledge:Manual of Style/Biographies#Subsequent use
3126:Yep, "Japan" and "Other countries" gets my vote. — 2470:"National Masturbation day is celebrated in Japan" 1973:Oh, gotcha, the Ja-language Knowledge. I misread. 2411:. But today there is no place called just "白川". 2407:. The kanji is wrong. It's 白川, not 白河. See also 2373:turns up no hits for "白河町", although there is a 3444:or both, that would undoubtedly be excellent.-- 3382:What is this question doing on this talk page? 2312:Source about radiation and food safety in Japan 3108:That's what I meant, sorry if I was unclear.-- 1915:. There are many more one-sentence articles. 1819:is only a neighborhood, it should be deleted. 8: 2663:Yes, you're right. Should WP then talk in 2322:Tokyo food radiation safety: It's personal 3007:more detailed page on prefectural website 1799:. Perhaps a locality of some sort around 3480:There's been a recent discussion at the 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3484:of the article for the Internet meme 2742:WP:VPT#is it me or is wiki very slow? 7: 3645:Japan-related articles by importance 3001:. In Kagoshima there's apparently a 1679:examples for kana pronunciations in 2320:McFarland, Saga and Sarah Spaeth. " 3543:Chinese calendar#Stem-branch cycle 3203:(And now Mari can correct me!) -- 2708:, who's commonly called Muneo. -- 2667:about "Tomokazu"? Hmm, apropos of 2579:by saying 血液型 A型, I tune out.) -- 28: 1728:, or should she be Sola Aoi? See 2996: 2990: 2928:on "oil paper umbrella in Japan" 1704:The Blade of the Northern Lights 1686:The Blade of the Northern Lights 33: 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Japan 3486:All your base are belong to us 3291:Anata-ga baka da to An-wa itta 2963:Thanks for your editing work. 2499:Talk:National Masturbation Day 1: 1696:03:34, 29 February 2012 (UTC) 3650:WikiProject Japan taskforces 3029:User:JoshuSasori/Work/Wagasa 1303:Districts and municipalities 2371:Japan Post's zipcode finder 3666: 3622:12:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 3608:07:05, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 3594:20:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC) 3579:19:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC) 3565:18:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC) 3536:15:17, 30 March 2012 (UTC) 3505:11:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC) 3476:Translation review request 3470:18:08, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3454:17:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3421:11:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3407:11:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3392:07:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3366:14:26, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3349:13:11, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3334:11:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3319:11:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3277:07:04, 28 March 2012 (UTC) 3255:15:44, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3229:15:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3213:14:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3189:14:30, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3161:14:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3135:16:14, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 3118:11:55, 27 March 2012 (UTC) 3102:16:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 3086:13:38, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 3065:09:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 3041:15:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 3019:08:51, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 2973:07:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 2955:06:04, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 2940:04:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 2917:17:47, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2892:05:56, 26 March 2012 (UTC) 2878:01:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC) 2837:00:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC) 2822:15:30, 24 March 2012 (UTC) 2790:13:13, 24 March 2012 (UTC) 2771:01:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC) 2756:17:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2732:15:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2718:14:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2700:14:13, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2685:13:35, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2659:13:23, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2638:12:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2604:09:06, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2589:08:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2562:08:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2544:06:57, 23 March 2012 (UTC) 2510:13:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC) 2492:13:20, 21 March 2012 (UTC) 2465:13:59, 18 March 2012 (UTC) 2435:14:34, 15 March 2012 (UTC) 2395:13:02, 15 March 2012 (UTC) 2364:18:53, 14 March 2012 (UTC) 2343:15:48, 11 March 2012 (UTC) 2294:18:17, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2263:06:48, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2229:06:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2207:05:57, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2181:05:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2159:23:05, 11 March 2012 (UTC) 2140:22:49, 11 March 2012 (UTC) 2099:18:19, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 2055:18:51, 14 March 2012 (UTC) 2037:05:21, 12 March 2012 (UTC) 2021:17:32, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1983:16:46, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1949:14:59, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1925:14:52, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1882:14:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1852:02:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1836:01:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC) 1391:Science & technology ( 2476:National Masturbation Day 2443:Hafus and the Golden Half 2077:Task Force Categorization 2045:if you disagree, though. 1813:22:32, 9 March 2012 (UTC) 1780:02:29, 8 March 2012 (UTC) 1761:02:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC) 1742:01:21, 5 March 2012 (UTC) 1714:20:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC) 1674:The kana vandal returneth 3600:Maculosae tegmine lyncis 3571:Maculosae tegmine lyncis 3528:Maculosae tegmine lyncis 3011:Maculosae tegmine lyncis 2624:, or (Japanese example) 1384:Royalty & nobility ( 1247:Task force talk/archives 3289:fool COPULA. Secondly, 2995:and Hiroshige/Van Gogh 2497:I've left a comment at 2385:disambiguation page. -- 3237:article. It tells us: 3145:this asahi.com article 2808:Sarah, Duchess of York 2405:Kita-Shirakawa Station 2104:It has to do with the 2085:? I understand how to 68: 3245:in (say) Italian. -- 2575:pays its respects to 2217:template:WPBannerMeta 1507:Related talk/archives 67: 46:of past discussions. 2377:in Gifu Prefecture. 1639:Search the archives: 2516:Yamaguchi or Momoe? 1724:Should 蒼井そら remain 1494:Jun 2007 – Sep 2008 77:& archives for 3584:sculptures... ;-) 3516:on temple web site 3174:article, it says: 2985:Plundering ja:wp, 2780:'s one anyway. -- 1432:= joint task force 1322:Military history ( 69: 3563: 3364: 3293:(or similar): You 3285:(or similar): Bob 3227: 3166:Language question 3149:reliable evidence 3063: 3003:kasayaki light up 2922:Japanese umbrella 2915: 2820: 2754: 2669:Chiharu Matsuyama 2433: 2403:and there is the 2401:Shiroishi, Miyagi 2349:Shirakawa, Miyagi 2330:. 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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Japan
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