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talk:WikiProject U.S. counties/Archive 7 - Knowledge

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234:. This of course isn't the determining factor, but it's important: virtually everyone knows what a ghost town is, but we'd be hard pressed to say exactly what a former settlement is ā€” is it former in the sense that nothing exists, or no population exists, etc.? "Ghost town" works well for the purposes of sorting communities on county templates, and as long as we have no major issues with using that term, it should suffice for the simple purposes of these templates. 31: 135: 253:"former settlements" or even "ghost towns and former settlements". So can we not make that simply change first, now, and do the more arduous work of ferreting the Stockyardses later? And I disagree that if forget about the Stockyardses then "we're left with spots that either have the buildings left (e.g. 265:
for us pull a place name out of GNIS and declare it a "ghost town" when there are no sources calling it that. This is especially true for GNIS entries that it calls "historical", as according the GNIS FAQ, "A feature with '(historical)' following the name no longer exists and is no longer visible on
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Some of the listed counties were simply renamed or transferred between jurisdictions, so the the listings really are former pairs of names. Every listing is marked up with some internal link, so the former names are represented by a mix of redlinks (because three are no articles on counties under
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A major confusing factor here is articles such as Stockyards, which are now part of municipalities (in Stockyards' case, it's Berkeley) and thus fall under the category of pages that generally get merged to their municipalities and never are included in county templates. Let's leave those out of
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Today I began to study the "Remarks" provided in decennial US Census tables of aggregate population by county. Most of the remarks explain establishment of new counties, intercounty transfers of territory, and interstate transfers of counties. Only about 19 mere name changes are remarked in the
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These are good points. I agree entirely that places like Stockyards don't belong in these templates at all. They probably all need a thorough going through, and places such as Stockyards to be removed. But that's a lot of work. Certainly much more labor intensive than changing "ghost towns" to
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made the chances. This was, however, quickly reverted by another editor who, when pressed for an explanation, commented "Nationwide, we use "Ghost towns", but there's nowhere (outside of some California templates) that uses "Former settlements". It's not simply a matter of California internal
271: 261:, whose "precise location is unknown" according to our article, so it's safe to say that is has neither abandoned buildings nor "ruins of still being populated places", and is thus not a ghost town. Seems like blatant 222:) or have ruins of still being populated places. There's nothing of original research or inaccuracy here to argue that abandoned communities (if they're stated as being communities, for which purpose our 361:
their former names) and redirects to the current name. Under Alabama, the first subheading in the list, five out of eight "former counties" are merely former names, according to their one-line entries.
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Apologizes in advance if this has already been discussed or if this is the wrong forum. There's a lot of inconsistency with how formerly inhabited places in California are dealt with by the
270:. Valid features... become historical if they no longer exist." I agree that "virtually everyone knows what a ghost town is", and I think that virtually everyone would agree that 218:
this discussion, since they shouldn't be on these templates at all. When we forget about places like Stockyards, we're left with spots that either have the buildings left (e.g.
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The list of former counties does expressly include name changes and state changes for persistent counties. So the former counties really are former pairs of names. --
131: 354: 305: 93: 138:. Clearly this is not a ghost town, by any stretch of the imagination, and it is not described as such anywhere other than wikipedia, as far as I can tell. 118:
descriptor, most of the places listed as such do not appear to be true ghost towns, by which I mean they don't match description of ghost town given in our
257:) or have ruins of still being populated places." If that were the case, then I'd agree that "ghost towns" is fine. But we're also left with places like 313: 189: 156:
is preferable because it doesn't imply anything about the current state of the location: it may be currently inhabited under a different name, like
114:. Other templates use combinations of the two. So there is this consistency issue. But a bigger problem, IMHO, is that for those navboxes using the 47: 17: 407: 372: 364: 350: 301: 127: 317: 107: 97: 188:
What does this project think? I'll note that this was previously discussed, but with too few participants and no really consensus at
287: 203: 38: 391: 334: 295: 243: 211: 403: 357:. Neither one is claimed by this project or any other. Are they unknown here? Is the practice deprecated? 165: 157: 123: 367:
is emphatically incomplete in the lead sentence and a few lines later with a plea for help. I have added
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I wonder whether mere name changes should be listed as "former counties" together with all the rest.
254: 239: 219: 168:. Only one other editor commented on my proposal, and s/he didn't object, so I went ahead and 266:
the landscape. Examples: a dried up lake, a destroyed building, a hill leveled by mining...
258: 161: 283: 199: 308:. At the moment, the category begins with a headnote (one link blue and one red, today). 177:
is more important than consistency. But I also think that we should probably also change
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consistency, but of nationwide consistency." I would argue that accuracy and avoiding
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Let me solicit comments. I anticipate finding more of these soon, probably today. --
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Template talk:Humboldt County, California#Ghost towns (and former settlements)?
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A ghost town, for example, is not a historical feature if it is still visible
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sources will serve well) are ghost towns. Moreover, we have no article on
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for a brief list of those nineteen, only seven of which are in the
282:, even without an article on the topic, seems much more accurate. 223: 25: 371:, a former name, by editing both the Kentucky grouping at 141:
I proposed standardizing these templates using the term
318:Category:Former settlements in the United States 355:Category:Former counties of the United States 306:Category:Former counties of the United States 8: 314:Category:Ghost towns in the United States 185:on the nav-boxes for other states, too. 160:; there may be nothing there at all like 134:listed in the GNIS database geolocate to 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject U.S. counties 164:; or it may be a true ghost town, like 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 410:that expressly includes name changes. 408:List of former United States counties 373:List of former United States counties 365:List of former United States counties 351:List of former United States counties 302:List of former United States counties 7: 128:Template:Alameda County, California 126:is designated as a "ghost town" on 379:, with references at the latter. 108:Template:Merced County, California 98:Template:Amador County, California 24: 402:(1880, note the early date). See 230:, while we have a decent one on 29: 1: 296:07:18, 28 January 2010 (UTC) 244:06:18, 28 January 2010 (UTC) 212:05:57, 28 January 2010 (UTC) 428: 375:and the lead paragraph at 369:Josh Bell County, Kentucky 94:California county navboxes 345:So-called former counties 392:15:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC) 335:15:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC) 404:User:P64/Counties/Names 300:FYI wikipedia includes 166:Drawbridge, California 158:Stockyards, California 124:Stockyards, California 120:article on the subject 377:Bell County, Kentucky 42:of past discussions. 349:Knowledge includes 152:. I think the term 183:former settlements 154:former settlements 143:former settlements 112:Former settlements 100:refers to them as 291: 280:Former settlement 228:former settlement 207: 198: 175:original research 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 419: 289: 276:Rugg, California 259:Apyu, California 205: 192: 162:Apyu, California 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 427: 426: 422: 421: 420: 418: 417: 416: 347: 294: 210: 122:. For example, 96:. For example, 90: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 425: 423: 415: 414: 411: 346: 343: 342: 341: 340: 339: 338: 337: 323: 322: 321: 286: 278:) is not one. 247: 246: 202: 197:for that link. 89: 86: 83: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 424: 412: 409: 405: 401: 396: 395: 394: 393: 389: 385: 380: 378: 374: 370: 366: 362: 358: 356: 352: 344: 336: 332: 328: 324: 320: 319: 315: 310: 309: 307: 303: 299: 298: 297: 293: 292: 285: 281: 277: 273: 269: 264: 260: 256: 251: 250: 249: 248: 245: 241: 237: 233: 229: 225: 221: 216: 215: 214: 213: 209: 208: 201: 196: 191: 186: 184: 180: 176: 171: 167: 163: 159: 155: 151: 148: 144: 139: 137: 133: 129: 125: 121: 117: 113: 109: 105: 104: 99: 95: 87: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 400:Tenth Census 399: 381: 368: 363: 359: 348: 311: 288: 267: 204: 195:User:Zzyzx11 187: 182: 178: 153: 146: 142: 140: 115: 111: 101: 91: 78: 43: 37: 179:ghost towns 147:ghost towns 145:instead of 132:coordinates 116:Ghost towns 110:calls them 103:Ghost towns 88:Ghost towns 36:This is an 312:See also: 284:Yilloslime 232:ghost town 200:Yilloslime 193:Thanks to 130:, but the 170:WP:BOLDly 79:ArchiveĀ 7 73:ArchiveĀ 6 68:ArchiveĀ 5 60:ArchiveĀ 1 353:and its 304:and its 236:Nyttend 39:archive 106:while 263:WP:OR 255:Bodie 220:Bodie 16:< 388:talk 331:talk 316:and 272:this 240:talk 224:GNIS 150:here 136:here 384:P64 327:P64 181:to 390:) 333:) 242:) 64:ā† 386:( 329:( 290:C 274:( 238:( 206:C 50:.

Index

Knowledge talk:WikiProject U.S. counties
archive
current talk page
ArchiveĀ 1
ArchiveĀ 5
ArchiveĀ 6
ArchiveĀ 7
California county navboxes
Template:Amador County, California
Ghost towns
Template:Merced County, California
article on the subject
Stockyards, California
Template:Alameda County, California
coordinates
here
here
Stockyards, California
Apyu, California
Drawbridge, California
WP:BOLDly
original research
Template talk:Humboldt County, California#Ghost towns (and former settlements)?
User:Zzyzx11
Yilloslime
C
05:57, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
Bodie
GNIS
former settlement

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