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of inclusion as a "national" to require at least three chapters, even if one or more had closed. As I tend to be a
Knowledge Inclusionist around here, as opposed to Deletionist, I'm supportive of including the small or dormant groups as notable - following the updated inclusion rules of course. A topic our Project will have to address is the puffery and peacock language that fills the articles for the Divine Nine. They rarely get a significant cleanup, leading to a misperception of heightened importance for these organizations or an unfair and perhaps unearned assessment of the quality of the articles (leading to Featured Article (FA) candidates, Good Article (GA) candidates, etc.) whereas the NIC and NPC group articles are scrutinized and clipped far more aggressively. Another topic we should address is to help readers understand which type of honor society it is they are dealing with. One of the multi-discipline societies? A single discipline, independent group? A captive honor society, like the one owned by the association of insurance agents, and used as a funnel for employees? Or one of the high-cost, for-profit honor societies that may be a not-for-profit, but which clearly pays big salaries to its founder and directors. Lots to do.
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https://www.nli.org.il/ar/newspapers/?a=is&oid=cgs19400411-01&type=staticpdf&submitted=1&e=-------ar-20--1--img-txIN%7CtxTI--------------1&g-recaptcha-response=03AGdBq25ScOclKrZAQS4iXqQa72nindEgAhvn0Hh8U89RaJMWD4AtTzFu92XfpLGC7Bnr4gji4NZJ638vaK6EYsOsLD1GVBJiRciX9OaskAujDrFT4j9U9bdQJhNsWUBmckc474ndWJbzflSvVbIKZ_loVvwGbX2iBcmTRG0fSWi_UvSQcjXg7EAkn_y0qmt6CooP8IQ27RvXiWlN4eYWP9y-4rM4LYZEtDST059eE5gW-KHQRd2H86VVEIvlkKgQQ62Tti-cFsYfvTV9mmFb7n2rdSatOBxKQodL-TyqTsjywMY47z87Ods_5XOgEwJD0q7F7JGko3GfcTrfLxY_8eOgq3i31w27nq7gRXXG0jcskCaAjk9ivGGimhREpohRoV_aCdq6B5BUoQU8fKKaDyAVnBVCnaLq8Qzc9qPDHkx3rn3G6s3raydsMAVD9kE66pLltdqpfm3o0tNyeda3raopdyipta6kTg
369:. Those chapter list tables will continue to be a focus, with further attention to the to-do list. Where I can, I now add an 80px, tightly cropped member badge to the infobox, color if possible. That size appears to pass review. I've only had a couple of the many graphics I've uploaded turned back because of size. They seem to be acceptable if I keep them under 60KB. As for new pages, I plan to write the Clovia page next. For the Project, I would like to offer further guidance for newer editors, to list for them what other maintenance or development projects they might take on. Your list of missing infoboxes helped me, for example.
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all those missing graphics and to create the infoboxes I did. Normally, this WP work is an evening project, when everyone has gone to sleep, meaning that it's more of a part time thing for me. But it remains a labor of love: I had several great uncles who were
Freemasons and fraternity men. I followed in their footsteps, joining several organizations (APO, Phi Sig, the Masons and their related groups, and several honor societies), and from one uncle's treasure trove of books and memorabilia I inherited a love of the 1920s. All that has sparked my continued interest in researching these groups, many of which date to that period.
627:, as I mull these these options over. First, that we cannot place everything into body text or table text, and that casual researchers who aren't as picky as I am (maybe you, too, in that club), will find the bread crumb trail triggered by seeing the national letters alone, enough to spark them to read the references and notes. But I also note that where there is an open question or ambiguity, like for the SUNY Buffalo or Columbia chapters of BST, by promoting the issue to the visible table notes these fields may elicit answers from other readers.
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their home country. (The list of country flags doesn't surprise me, Alpha Kappa Rho is also one of the more numerous in the
Philippines. Whenever I curse not being able to get up to date information on Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines, I have to remind myself that they are one of the better documented. (Glitches in membership records during the Marcos years not withstanding.) Frankly working on active fraternities and sororities in the Philippines can be tougher than working on groups in the USA that have been inactive for 50 years!
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304:) Looks like the UofIll site doesn't understand the chapters ending in Omega are graduate chapters, so some tweeking is needed. I've taken the info from the UofIll side and will build an excel spreadsheet from that and then automate the creation of the FratChapter template lines. The Graduate chapters will need to go into a separate list generated from the national chapter-locator.
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589:, I think the table for the second incarnation should include the Theta Xi chapter that they became. (Possibly the first table as well). The list of Theta Xi chapters on the Theta Xi website makes it quite clear (they are all down at the bottom since they all start with Kappa). Let me know if you want to, if you want me to or if you don't think it is a good idea.
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rule of thumb, versus my (as an outsider) choosing how they ought to be labeled. --Thus naming conventions can get messy. But people are messy. Sigh. I don't know that a DAB is needed, but if these groups maintain usage of their GLO names I certainly support making those the primary name of the article, and using REDIRECTs for names like <lang: -->
728:. As for the pin image, no worries if it is copyrighted. Knowledge carves out the right to show a smaller version of an image to be used as the corporate identifier. When I have both a crest and a pin, the pin is OK, if shown in smaller format, as long as it is discussed in the body text. One of the yearbooks might have a more accurate founding date.
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where they haven't yet been written, and in the same way, moving some of the notes to the EFN template.) Big picture, I'm pleased with this page, though it still has holes. --The lack of consistent source material has left it worse than most, with some missing dates and missing chapters. I am glad to see you found an additional possible chapter at
329:(yes, that is one obnoxiously long URL). Chapter names seem to be like some of the other legal groups. I have seen both Brandeis (the founding chapter), Judah Benjamin and Cordozo. But from the page at U of Miami, it looks like they changed to greek letters. What I've found has mostly been chapters around Chicago, U of Miami and George Washington.
2027:. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Knowledge. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Knowledge (see
1756:. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Knowledge. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Knowledge (see
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Filipinos, why would a native society in Malta of all places adopt Alpha Kappa Rho? The entire national is less than 50 years old. I call it utter shenanigans. If I'm wrong, maybe my holding the line on this will force them to create a website for their 20,000 chapters and 5M members. Methinks the whole thing is absurd.
277:, I'm inclined to believe it exists. Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines has an Alumni Association in Milan, Italy that has existed since 2006. Filipino expats end up *everywhere*. I also think 20,000 is wrong, but I wouldn't bat an eye at 1,000. The primary question is how to count the equivalent of "Alumni Associations".
620:. I'm also intrigued by the placement of several foreign chapters. There may be an interesting story there, from their national publication, perhaps? I noted that the third iteration may have 30 or more chapters, but these may be legacy claims of the non-merged chapters that were actually dormant. Dunno...
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I think I've decided on my "next", Sigma Omega Psi. Merged with AEPi in 1940 with only 3 new chapters but had at least a dozen. However AEPI also absorbed one into the AEPi Alpha and considers several charterings to be restarts of Sigma Omega Psi chapters. Never made the main listing areas in Baird's
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As for the notes, my only real problem was the combination of refs and notes. And I decided a long time ago that your feeling on GLO articles especially ones that have gone under is closer to the way that you did the original document at U of
Minnesota. Someday, someone may force us to pare the notes
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Yes, Painful. I've read other issues, some even later. I'm glad these three got the care they did. Have fun with Clovia. My two that I intend to complete by the end of
January are the IOta Phi Theta chapter list and piecing together everything for Nu Beta Epsilon. Are you in a job is normally busy in
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I have made a list through the years complete with school, when they existed, what they became and what the pin looked like if possible ranging from a
Chemistry Honorary in North Dakota to an African American Beautician and Barber group. U of Illinois wasn't in my list, was on the wikipedia page for
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These three (German, French and
Spanish) seem to operate within their own bubbles, with little crossover to other GLOs. Did you check how they answer their phone? Do they start by calling themselves the German National Honor Society? or as Delta Phi Alpha? I fall back to self-determination as my
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Honor society can get confusing.) In addition, for the various "levels", a page about a specific honor society should only link to those at the same "level" or the same language, so for example, a page about the High School honorary in
Spanish should only link to other High School honoraries and to
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I don't mind either way. I like the formatting of this article slightly better, and was looking for consensus on this matter. Yes, certainly: I agree we ought to list the successor chapter name within the merged fraternity. To your point, the longer notes field where the new chapter name is listed
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it does seem valuable that we identify them and support maintenance (and inclusion in the
Watchlist) in order to distinguish which ones are which. That's one reason I'm so pleased with the addition of an Affiliation parameter. Baird's had it right, by the 8th or 10th edition or so, to set the bar
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I am a consultant, with a normal workload of three, 3-month-duration, focused projects a year. I could pursue more, expanding my team, and am shifting a bit to offer a set of services learned over the past year. It just happened that I had some free time over the past couple of months to research
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I don't believe it either, but 1,000 chapters wouldn't surprise me. Alpha Phi Omega of the
Philippines has over 300 chapters and about 300 Alumni Associations. and some of the GLOs in the Philippines operate like the USA NPHC fraternities and sororities and have full non-collegiate chapters outside
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and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion
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of a sputtering regional fraternity. Moving on to the predecessor of the Beta Kappa chapter, while the Archive doesn't specifically call out that the earlier APO was a local, it does indicate that that group formed in 1920, fully five years before the formation of the national service fraternity,
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of the table? Or is a mention of the chapter name enough, where relegated to the footnotes like they are, here? I agree, too, that once we decide, we ought to adjust the other national organizations similarly. (This could become a year-long project in itself, updating list pages and adding them
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are so painful to read. Did you see the ads, requesting funds for "distressed relatives" in Poland, Lithuania, and other places? Already, word was leaking out of German atrocities. Already, writers were noting the propaganda, meant to inflame anti-Semitism. But these poor souls didn't know the
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They claim a chapter in Malta. Good grief, that would be the tiniest of fractions, global travelers, no, ex-pats who reside in Malta, themselves the tiniest fraction of the law school grads who are themselves a fraction of the student bodies of a couple of Philippine universities. If not native
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At University of Minnesota, I presume. Yeah, more GLOs in 1925 than in 1975, I think. I was actually hoping the guy who was changing the Iota Phi Theta alumni would stay around. But I think the articles covered by WP:FRAT are strong than they were a few years ago. Now if we could just manage to
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It had been some time, but looks like that information came from the Baird's Archive, the "inactive men's groups" document. I was able to trace a second group that merged into the Beta Kappa chapter just prior to the Theta Chi merger, and have corrected this in the reference note, where I had
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for more information on this user right and under what circumstances it is okay to move files. When you move a file please remember to update any links to the new name as well! If you do not want the file mover right anymore, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Thank you, and happy editing!
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I tend to update these, but as they all work without specific spacing it is more of a convenience for editors, versus a burning issue. I therefore wouldn't waste time making a category for these. As they crop up and as I have time, I adjust them. I also move params up and down, so there is
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Nope, to get a list of *every* time Alpha Phi Omega was used as the name of a Greek Letter Organizations. I would like to write him to *correct* the entry. I found an issue of the Daily Illini showing *clearly* that the predecessor of Beta Kappa was Delta Phi Omega, *not* Alpha Phi Omega.
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Let me know if you want be to figure out a search for all of those usages of Infobox Fraternity that *don't* have the equal signs all in the same column. I *think* if there are less than 4 spaces between the type and the equal sign after it, then it can't line up with the equal sign for
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I'm not sure whether it makes it that much wider, in the second table, one entry goes on to the second line, Trine. I'm not sure that changing them from HT to AB of HT (don't feel like typing greek letters here) would make the boxes overall taller or wider, but Alpha Beta of HT probably
1039:, is noted with a predecessor group called Alpha Phi Omega dating to 1920. It also has a reference, their inline reference #7, which notes its absorption of a chapter of Delta Alpha Epsilon. If you search for the entry for Delta Alpha Epsilon you will note this was the
357:, I will be sporadically active here, as I've got a busy season for work fast approaching. With your help I was able to identify and update many articles that needed infoboxes, and some of these need chapter list tables. I'm pleased with the most recent three,
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Carroll Lurdling would likely have additional material on this, that didn't make it into the archive. I have his email address, and could inquire on your behalf. Is your interest to clarify whether there was a relationship with the larger service fraternity?
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Given that the page has been created and deleted *five* times, I've talked to an admin about creating it for the Law fraternity, I indicated that I would create it in my sandbox and let another member of the WP:FRAT take a look. Note, he asked me to use the
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I defer to you. My list at the U of MN is a starting point, as an (ahem) comprehensive list, though if there were a similar page of Illinois or Columbia GLOs it might even be longer. We might also start working through the list of dormant groups in Baird's.
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Yep. I hold out hope that we will gather more volunteers. This is the reason I leave all those To Do pages, with instructions or suggestions for article improvements. Sort of a bread crumb strategy, to coax casual readers to do more.
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As for the holes. I know this one has lots. And I'd love to have a fraternity magazine. I dropped an email to U of Tasmania in Hobart, there do appear to be a few cases where the school is referred to as U of Hobart, so that might solve
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I am motivated to write or improve pages for all of these legitimate societies which serve collegiate populations. Thriving or small, it doesn't matter. I've less concern for high school and non-collegiate societies, but yet for
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could be helpful, but it widens the table somewhat - I don't know if that becomes a problem on smaller tablets or screens as I use two widescreen desk monitors when working on these. When I experimented with the formatting for
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If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these media fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on
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Nope, went through the 1920s Illios. There is a "Delta Phi Omega" that appears to disappear where Beta Kappa comes on campus, but no "Alpha Phi Omega". I'm going to see if I can find the school newspaper from that
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Looks like the list from the UofIll site is a good start for an Iota Phi Theta list *and* unlike every other NPHC group I've seen, the National website has most if not all of the information on where chapters are.
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as a guide. I realized that I'm the original creator for four out of the eight groups there. I really wonder sometimes what percentage of Greek Letter Organization pages that you or I are the original authors.Β :)
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would be a good place to start as well, but it appears they won't know who owns the copyright for the pin image.Β :( Feel free to create the page if you want, but I'll try to put stuff in over the next copy of
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of that small fraternity, which at one point had four chapters. That absorption came about the same year of the national merger into Theta Chi, for Beta Kappa as a national. Do I misunderstand your query?
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Misread the entry. Note, I went to the 1922 Illio yearbook and didn't see any sign (Did see a chapter page for the Ku Klux Klan, made up of those from Social Fraternities, like a Fraternity honor society)
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Beta Kappa (I go through and look for unlinked Alpha Phi Omega on Knowledge) and I wanted to understand why. Answer appears to be that the archive has it wrong. (and for the school they are actually at!).
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What was the source for all of the information on where the chapters came from in the list, there are a lot of notes, but I couldn't find any indication on source. I'm specifically looking for where the
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and 12 years before expansion to the Illinois campus. So it was by inference that I determined the prior Illinois group was a local chapter. A scan of Illinois yearbooks may elicit more information.
1416:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?search=fraternity+insource%3A%2F%7C+%2Atype+%7B0%2C3%7D%3D%2F+insource%3A%2Fbox+%5BfF%5Drat%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1
1080:, who is quite knowledgeable about the history of that national. He joined in the 1990s, but that group remains a solid chapter, and is quite proud of their history as a former national fraternity.
1662:; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Knowledge. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:
611:(versus ALT and BST) I added additional detail in the footnotes to make the information more clear. Would researchers or readers be put off by not having the eventual chapter listed in the
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consistency. Users of the Visual Editor don't care, but I use courier standard spacing and the regular editing window, so it is glaring to me. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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but had quite a few chapters listed (though different in different editions and no chapter chartering dates. Actually pretty annoying that only 1914 is listed as a founding date.
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Yep. I'm working on a new section for the F&S project Talk page, a working (expanding) list of all the missing or substandard chapter lists. Almost done with the first pass.
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including talking to their national president. I know that they want to keep the article under that name, but I've really been thinking of changing *that* to a dab page like
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I agree that we need new blood. I often (now) patrol the edit list, and offer recommendations and thanks. We could still use a couple more strong volunteers.
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Periodically I find groups that are listed on your F&S at University of Minnesota. A list of Phi Alpha Tau through Pi is in the 1934 Emersonian.
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https://idnc.library.illinois.edu/?a=d&d=DIL19251024.2.86&srpos=16&e=-------en-20-DIL-1-byDA.rev-img-txIN-%22Delta+Phi+Omega%22---------
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I happened to find one on a UNC Pi Lamb chapter website. Must have been from an earlier history. It matches the crests you found, but is in color.
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how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the
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the first part of the year? I'm not sure who else does significant work across the Greek Letter Organizations, but we certainly need new blood.
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I think you are confusing Alpha Kappa Rho with a group like Sigma Rho. Alpha Kappa Rho is *not* restricted to law school graduates. And given
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Thank you. I read the article, finding it on p.11. It will be valuable proof of notability for a Knowledge article. Papers like the
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as a redirect to the section and then add that to the list of chapters category as well as to where you are adding in the articles.
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https://archive.org/details/LETTERTOMRHENRYMROSENWALDFROMALLENWDULLES80B01676R0038001800301/page/n1/mode/2up?q=%22Beta+Sigma+Tau%22
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several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the
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https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.32106019794517&view=1up&seq=248&skin=2021&q1=%22Beta%20Sigma%20Tau%22
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NP. I'm not convinced it will find the all, but a start. Wish there was a tool to help, but I don't think VE or AWB will do so.
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Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media item by finding freely licensed media of the same subject,
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to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war.
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I'll send your reference, and request a correction. They'll file it until the next time they open that document.
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any other Spanish Language honoraries regardless of Level. (I'm quite willing to move this disucussion to WP:FRAT)
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One of these days I have *got* to move some of this page into an archive. Once I take the time to figure that out.
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Thank you very much. I added this as a reference, for future capture in a WP article about the fraternity.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=University_of_Pittsburgh&diff=1233191263&oldid=1232429521
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I can't find anything in a quick google search on the group, is that what you meant to add?
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requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license
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Overall, yes, I agree with you: the pages supported by our Project are much improved.
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That sheet has a listing for Beta Kappa, where that fraternity's Illinois chapter,
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Hi Jax MN! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of
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tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with
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is therefore a temporary improvement, and should be updated per your suggestion.
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That may have been due to publication timing. Check the 1923 or 1924 books.
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If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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mistakenly thought it was merely another local. Rather, it was the
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chapter at U of Illinois came from a group called Alpha Phi Omega.
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Coincidentally, I have a friend who is an alumnus of Beta Kappa's
676:
List of fraternities and sororities at the University of Minnesota
1597:
Consistent with style and structure of other similar articles in
193:
For your tireless contributions to Fraternity/Sorority articles.
1878:
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Yes, at the U of MN. You graduated from Carnegie Mellon, right?
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If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review
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is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All
1333:, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:
2005:
Orphaned non-free image File:The logo of Upsilon Phi Delta.jpg
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For finding the source for Sigma Mu Delta that we both missed
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18:
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So which group (and I'm fine with one off of the unlinked at
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disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.
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with a short explanation of why the file is not replaceable.
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I took a look at that sheet and don't see anything related (
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the original replaceable non-free use template, replacing
1650:. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of
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down. Until that point, I do find them quite interesting.
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List of fraternities and sororities at Cornell University
1973:
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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the
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justify all of the NALFO and APIDA groups having pages.
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Got curious, the following is probably a good start
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http://www.sigmagammaepsilon.com/f11webchapterlist.pdf
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for thankless work creating a number of chapter lists
1715:. If you have any questions, please ask them at the
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https://iotaphitheta.org/iotaphitheta/chapter-locator
1749:
File:The hall of the Euphemian Literary Society.png
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File:The hall of the Euphemian Literary Society.png
1606:
16:Jax_MN's Talk page -- thank you for your feedback.
2038:will be deleted after seven days, as described in
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1605:To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with
832:National Honor Society and National <lang: -->
813:National Honor Society vs. National <lang: -->
726:Baird's Archive, document showing Sigma Omega Psi
906:, thanks for catching that. Typo. I fixed it.
1595:
1577:I have sent you a note about a page you started
1485:
2040:section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion
2034:Note that any non-free images not used in any
1769:section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion
1763:Note that any non-free images not used in any
1509:section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion
349:horror that would unfold within a year or two.
1011:https://uofi.app.box.com/v/inactive-glos-mens
8:
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275:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS-rJ9oIbJI
877:List of social fraternities and sororities
75:
1489:the guide to writing your first article
2020:File:The logo of Upsilon Phi Delta.jpg
1581:Hi Jax MN. Thank you for your work on
92:for dedication and endurance building
1521:what is generally accepted as notable
7:
1971:Hello Jax MN. Your account has been
1674:Di-replaceable non-free use disputed
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706:https://www.aepibama.org/our-history
187:The Turning Knowledge Green Barnstar
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1537:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
1494:You may want to consider using the
1380:ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
1583:List of Phi Delta Epsilon chapters
1072:at Hamline University, now called
14:
1925:. Please adjust course promptly.
1615:tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
1886:. If you are unable to agree at
1862:
1656:first non-free content criterion
1593:and left the following comment:
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939:The Fraternity/Sorority Barnstar
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853:It is probably better to create
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86:The Fraternity/Sorority Barnstar
76:
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1435:and submit your choices on the
363:Phi Kappa (Catholic fraternity)
2052:18:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
1717:Media copyright questions page
1329:performed by you, on the page
1:
2029:our policy for non-free media
2000:19:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
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1758:our policy for non-free media
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1414:Knowledge arbitration process
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810:French National Honor Society
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1917:Even more concerning is the
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724:Here's the Archive page.
581:Just because we did so on
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1781:17:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
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1505:Honor Society Caucus
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1873:edit warring policy
922:You made my weekend
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485:Sigma Gamma Epsilon
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1422:topic bans
1365:. Thanks,
1361:, you can
972:Beta Kappa
965:Beta Kappa
359:Beta Kappa
203:FormalDude
1979:filemover
1884:consensus
1858:July 2024
1708:this link
1418:site bans
1327:this edit
1321:. I have
1074:Theta Chi
678:is next?
613:body text
42:Archive 1
2036:articles
1996:contribs
1791:founded.
1765:articles
1339:bare URL
346:Sentinel
143:DOCUMENT
116:barnstar
30:Archives
1974:granted
1620:Klbrain
1587:Klbrain
1564:~/talk/
1445:NoACEMM
952:Rublamb
551:@Naraht
99:Unician
1947:Naraht
1927:VQuakr
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1840:Naraht
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1793:Naraht
1666:Go to
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1235:Naraht
1233:Thanx.
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365:, and
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1977:the "
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646:that.
570:Cool!
157:ERROR
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