Talk:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt

2477:

focus on how to tell this story in an objective, NPOV manner, it will be overlooked. Don't be concerned about the meaning of individual words. Avoid speculation on why people did what they did. Ultimately, as a Canadian I think Hitler and the Nazis were responsible for this event. I think most English speakers will see the violence in the same way: the Nazis used old hatreds to turn people against each other. The occupation force decided who would be the perpetrators and who would be the victims. I hope that helps a little; any editor may feel free to invite me back via my talk page (or mention my username) if you think my input would be useful. I may not be able to help too much and I may take some time to respond, but I remain willing to comment. I hope you can understand that I think this article should focus on the horrific fact that ordinary people killed, and were killed, because of their religion or ethnicity. That is the "never again" message that gives meaning to WWII in the modern world.

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synthesize support for this claim. And, if it needs to be said, you again cited sources with egregious unreliability problems. You're implying that I'm assuming bad faith yet you're still not showing any evidence that you've actually read these sources for what they want to say, and that you've given any thought to the preponderance of reliable sources about this specific period overall, which would enable everyone else to believe you that you've made the right call by picking that phrasing, and that the phrasing is in line with the article title policy. I'm not assuming, or assuming bad faith; based on the information provided, I'm assessing a lack of adherence to the policies. --

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the "Đurđevdan uprising" part of that phrase, and ignored the "of the Sana peasants" part. I know the shorter phrase has a better ring to it, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that we can just do away with the remainder. Likewise, I know that seeing a secondary source refer to a primary source looks good, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should use the latter ourselves indiscriminately. Overall, it is you who appear to have entirely sidestepped the spirit of my good-faith criticism and instead posted what is essentially an ad hominem rant. I'm not sure you realize just how far off all this anger is from the decorum prescribed by

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still one work by him, and one work published by a Yugoslav Army institution in 1992. You don't think we should aim to find something better than a foreign-language work published in a time and place that was embroiled in a war at the time? I've already spelled out the concern regarding the Municipality of Oštra Luka paper, I won't waste any more effort on that. Regarding Lukač, that's clearly another Army work, though from a different time - a time with much more socialist lingo for one thing... it says:

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a country", and of revolt is "to fight in a violent way against the rule of a leader or government". My preference would therefore be with revolt rather than uprising, as this wasn't an attempt to change the govt, it was an spontaneous response against persecution by local thugs. Such a title places the topic in time and place and specifies the type of event. The current title doesn't do the first two things at all, and as I have pointed out a couple of times already,

296: 275: 695: 1942:. The location is a bit fuzzy, because the revolt happened in nearby villages, but even the various inadequate Serbian sources advocated earlier generally align it with the terms Sana/sanski, so it may be good enough, especially if we focus the article more on the resulting massacre and the hanging in the center of the town. The villages of Tramošnja and Kijevo appear to be 5 and 10 km southwest of the city, respectively. -- 191: 170: 748: 711: 201: 563: 306: 678: 2307:

possible to conjecture that, had they had some more success in their fight against this terror, we would have seen this documented in more history works and described in terms that more closely match the definition of an uprising. But, that did not happen, and instead this is remembered because of the egregious mass murder, followed by even more mass murder three months later. --

33: 635: 613: 1836:, rather than attempt to draw conclusions from the discussion. Please note that, although I feel there are grounds for legitimate concern about the article, I do not feel that I have enough information to allege any actual wrongdoing on the part of contributors to the article, and none should be imputed. I will post a further message in the near future. 1454:

streljano. Radi zastrašivanja naroda leševi streljanih su obešeni po drveću u parku, u Sanskom Mostu. 62 Ovim do tada najmasovnijim zločinom u Bos. krajini, Nemci su upotrebili jednu od istrebljivačkih metoda koje su već ranije počeli isprobavati u Srbiji i Sloveniji i dali očigledan primer ustašama kako treba sprovoditi akciju uništenja našeg naroda. 63

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Ustaše so that they could bring the Germans in and start the mass murder of Serbs. *gasp* Regardless of the quality of this source, one thing seems clear - the end result is what really matters most in all of the sources about this - the gruesome mass murder of 27 civilians. I'll see if I can try to refocus the article accordingly. --

2472:: It's clear from the conflict on this talk page that this event is controversial even today. It's also clear that everyone involved wants this story to be told. From a global perspective, so many horrific things happened in the war that only the very worst atrocities in the Balkans have been documented in English. But 624: 602: 591: 2100:

There is no consensus here. You know very well that this discussion is continuation of rename/delete campaign of articles that I recently created. This campaign is pursued by you and Joy. You Peacemaker67 dedicated most of your wikipedia life to punish me because I wrote a negative review (completely

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would be an appropriate descriptive title in English with sufficient scope to cover what was a spontaneous revolt in response to persecution, as well as the resultant massacre. The Merriam Webster definition of uprising is "a usually violent effort by many people to change the government or leader of

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Ad, your comment wasn't ignored, I simply had another few data point to convey in addition to my earlier comments. Had I wanted to respond specifically to that comment, I would have done so. The general sourcing problems stand, and that comment actually helps illustrate my point - you underlined only

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compilation we also have referenced. Yet, Sofija Praća-Veljović is a "retired teacher, Belgrade", and the English in that document is really shoddy. But that's not the weird part - the weird part is that this source actually discusses how this was a staged, fake uprising that was made up by the local

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I note, without surprise but with some resignation, that you have completely failed to address my concerns about the article title. This was not a controversial move. I've said the title has no basis whatsoever in English and have provided evidence for my contention. You haven't provided any evidence

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Thanks for the c/e Myrtle. The editor responsible is currently on a T-BAN for this subject and can't respond, but I can say that I have asked for them to provide translations of quotes in Cyrillic elsewhere (rather than editors having to rely on Google Translate), and they basically refused. I think

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No, I didn't say that. I said they (Ustaše and whatnot) committed war crimes, these crimes logically led to a backlash, and then they pumped up the backlash as an uprising in order to get the Germans to get in there, which logically led to confrontations and German casualties, which in turn led to a

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Replying also to the distinction between uprising and revolt - yes, that is my understanding of dictionaries as well, the word uprising connotes a much more organized, directed effort to do something, but this was civilians scrambling to fight for their lives against an invading military force. It's

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Introduction: Somewhere in the introduction, but not necessarily in the first paragraph, you should include the number of casualties in each side in the fighting and the number of casualties in the reprisal action. (By casualties I mean people killed, people wounded, and people captured.) Discussion

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From reading through the discussions, looking through the sources and doing a bit of research of my own, I have come to a conclusion that there are reasons to be concerned about this article, which **may** incorporate a revisionist or fringe historical narrative. I intend to bring the article to the

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Ad, you still seem to be blithely unaware of the simple fact that whatever you can Google isn't automatically the best and the authoritative collection of reliable sources about a topic. Yes, it's not false that there's a work of Petranović out there that mentions this phrase. At the same time, it's

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an article out of a variety of conflicting and/or dubious claims. The title is not in concert with naming conventions, indeed it doesn't fit into the spirit of the "use English" guideline, simply because "Đurđevdan" is not an English word. If there was a clear consensus in reliable sources that this

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against war crimes of an occupying force, followed immediately by a series of even worse war crimes by the same force? I suppose I can see the rationale in trying to paint these events as an uprising - to provide a kind of a memorial to those peasants who acted bravely in the face of glaring mortal

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Ali u nekim krajevima gde nije bilo komunista, niti simpatizera Partije, srpsko stanovništvo nije se pridržavalo ove taktike već su grupe seljaka ili pojedinci pokušavali da se suprotstave ustaškim nasiljima. Tako je grupa seljaka iz sela Srpsko Kijevo, jugoistočno od Sanskog Mosta, 6. maja pružila

2504:

Hi there, I recently made a copy-edit for this article. The non-English portions were of some concern to me as they might not be very helpful for someone who only speaks English. I checked at the Tea House to ask an experienced editor and it was suggested I leave it intact. I notice another editor

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I don't think Joy has over-stepped the mark, the tags are appropriate. The Dodik source (for example) is of some considerable concern, as the main elements of the "uprising" and consequences are sourced from it alone. Joy hasn't cherry-picked it (he has questioned another source), Dodik is the key

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events of this nature can and should be documented in Knowledge. This one is particularly important because it is a very early event in the Axis occupation of the Balkans. I am concerned that conflict about how to tell this story might lead to the story not being told. That is, unless the editors

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and stop with your attempts to sidetrack this discussion. Look at the title of this section. It says "uprising", with quotation marks. Its better to stay focused to the subject of discussion here. You objected to the term uprising, contrary to multiple sources cited in this article which directly

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Ustaški stožer u Banjaluci odlučio je da ovo okupljanje srpskih seljaka iskoristi kao povod za šire akcije protiv srpskog naroda na ovom terenu i uopšte u Bosanskoj krajini. Lansirane su vesti da se okupljaju ogromne „četničke snage", koje ugrožavaju ustašku vlast i prete i samom okupatoru, a sve

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This level of discussion is descending into wikilawyering again. I think I've actually responded to each of your three questions earlier, but you've apparently failed to listen. You're still picking apart sources from snippets, and even taking pieces from phrases and sentences in order to try to

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would be best here, especially as Đurđevdan is pretty much unknown in English, and the notable subject here is not the supposed "uprising" (which appears to have been Serb villagers spontaneously defending themselves from attacks by the Ustase using whatever was at hand), but the response, which

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I sincerely apologize if I did not notice your straightforward replies to my questions above in the huge walls of text you wrote to complain about me and my conduct. The further discussion might further increase this wall of text and might discourage participation of uninitiated readers in this

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Neprijatelj je centar pobune — zaselak Sjenokose u selu Srpskom Kijevu — potpuno spalio, pohvatao u obližnjim selima oko 450 Srba, između kojih je odabrao 100 i zadržao, a ostali su privremeno pušteni kućama. Iz ove grupe talaca izdvojeno je 9. maja 27 muškaraca, uglavnom iz zaseoka Vidovići, i

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I haven't heard of this event before now. From a local perspective it is a very important part of history, but the horrible truth is that, from a global perspective, it's one of thousands of such events that occurred during WWII. That does not mean it doesn't belong in Knowledge), as the event

1982:

The chronological order matters, but it's not the end-all of history articles. Besides, when we know from sources that the uprising was directly incited by war crimes done for the purpose of being able to engage in a massacre, then it's incongruous to focus on the uprising as the main topic.

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I'm requesting comment from other editors with regard to what should be the title and scope of this article. We've had a rather unproductive series of discussions on this talk page, and I'd appreciate a few fresh pairs of eyes. I'd like to know if people who read history books about WWII in

1251:

I'm not really advancing a position that this shouldn't be called "Đurđevdan uprising", I'm simply saying that if we want to claim so, the article needs to cite those reliable sources that claim that instead. Sources that are unreliable shouldn't be used in the article at all; we shouldn't

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Article: Here you should include the events leading up to the event, starting with the beginning of the Axis occupation and leading up to how exactly the Muslim Ustaše "desecrated" the holiday. Include something here about the importance of the holiday and how it is celebrated. The

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The weak consensus (at the moment) of this RfC appears to be that this article's scope should include the persecution, revolt and massacre. When this RfC closes, someone will probably submit a RM to move it to the best descriptive title for the agreed scope. We'll see. Until then.

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municipality. We really need to find better sources than that. Mojzes' book says the pictures of the mass murder victims were distributed widely, so there must be some reliable, third-party sources out there that describe this that will allow us to properly reference this.

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It can happen that an otherwise notable topic has not yet received much attention in the English-speaking world, so that there are too few English sources to constitute an established usage. Very low Google counts can but need not be indicative of this. If this happens,

2011:

This uprising was certainly not incited by subsequent massacre of 27 people, nor there is any logic to name it after it. If some editor believe that the title of this article should be renamed please initiate regular RM discussion. That was already advised to Joy twice

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might be appropriate. But even before we go there, the word "Uprising" needs to be lower case, as there clearly is no source in English that treats this as a proper noun. I'm pre-emptively moving it to lower case while we discuss what to do about the title in general.

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If you insist on your position please be so kind to follow wikipedia rules and initiate WP:RM. Any further can only create huge walls of text that will drive away any outside editors who would otherwise be willing to participate in the renaming discussion. All the

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Ah, of course it is "allowed". Who are you, the talk page police? You clearly misunderstood my comment, so I clarified it. I really wish you would actually try to address the issue of the title and sourcing instead of rabbiting on about inconsequential stuff.

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Yugoslavia remember hearing about this revolt as such, about the resulting massacre (whether as a consequence of the revolt or as such), and whatever other aspect of this story seems relevant to the title and scope of the article. Thanks in advance. --

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is expected in all processes of Knowledge, including content discussion, the dispute process and all other functions of the community. No doubt you know this is one of many articles I recently created that you and Peacemaker67 tried to rename or

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has turned the non-English portions into question marks. (Hi there, waving). Is there a way to make the quotes a bit better? Perhaps 'someone' with both languages could translate them? I would try but I would likely muck it up. Cheers, Myrtle.

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Mesec dana od izbijanja aprilskog rata i 18 dana od kapitulacionog akta došlo je do sukoba srpskih seljaka iz okoline Sanskog Mosta, sela Kijevo i Tramošnja 6, 7. i 8. maja 1941. godine, poznatog kao Đurđevdanski ustanak sanskih seljaka.

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Looking at the sourcing here, it looks like another hodgepodge created by trawling Google search results. I've tried to do some more of that to see how the sources actually call this, and found these events discussed in much more detail in

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Otpor proslavljanju Đurđevdana u selima kod Sanskog Mosta prerastao je u oružani sukog Srba i ustaša, a u gušenju pobune uključile su se i nemačke trupe. Usledio je masovni zločin u Sanskom Mostu i vešanje streljanih Srba u parku ovog

790:. There is nothing controversial about that. Of course, once a couple of days have elapsed and it is reasonably clear whether you have any evidence at all for the article title, I will decide whether to submit a RM for a change to a 1886:

This event will be viewed, for most readers of the English article, more as part of WWII than as part of the ethnic and religious conflict that has been ongoing in the Balkans for centuries. The article should reflect that, if you

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We already had this question on our Talk pages - abruptly ending the RfC in favor of RM doesn't seem helpful to me. Nevertheless, a month will have passed in ten minutes from now, curiously enough, so we might as well proceed.

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is a uniquely Serbian custom which should be mentioned briefly in the article. (I wasn't aware of it until now, and it's very interesting.) Include the religion of each group the first time you mention it, but otherwise use it

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source used in this article for the events that are the subject of the article. There is a spelling error in the title of the book! As I pointed out early on, the title doesn't exist in English, which I proved above. Given

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article. Otherwise readers will not know, just from the title, that the event occurred in the Balkans. I know this is far from a perfect solution, because the area was not called Bosnia in 1941 (among other things).

1572: 2067:. If move is contested the only way is to initiate WP:RM. There are plenty of sources which support term uprising. That is why I am opposed to your proposal. If you insist on it please initiate WP:RM. -- 863:

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3. Oružani sukob koji se dogodio između Srba u Selima Tramošnja, Kozica i Tomina 6, 7. i 8. maja 1941. godine sa hrvatskim ustašama, koje su u pomoć pozvale nemačke snage, nije poprimio karakter ustanka.

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When I pointed to another source which is also used in the article that emphasizes that this event is known as "Đurđevdan uprising" and when I explained there are more sources which support this name,

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Proof reading should be done by a native English speaker, as there are some issues with grammar, particularly the use of 'a' and 'the'; this is commonly seen in translations from Slavic languages).

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is unjustified. You took the above part out of the context and brought it here to mislead the uninitiated readers that I presented the above sources to argue with about the title of the article.--

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IOW this Drago Njegovan doesn't think this was an uprising, rather an "armed conflict", a "revolt", followed by a "mass crime". They also don't name the event after Đurđevdan like we do. --

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a local forest ranger who was member of Ustaše, intentionally wounded himself and reported to Ustaše authorities in Sanski Most that he was attacked and wounded by Serb peasants

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Whatever. I did not "follow" Joy here, as you have claimed. Mine was the first comment on this talk page, I have it watchlisted because it is related to Yugoslavia in WWII.

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to challenge that. All I have done is adjust the completely inappropriate title, that makes it appear this term has some basis as a proper noun, and bring it into line with

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First paragraph: The first paragraph should include the actual date, the English name for the holiday (St. George's Day), the two parties/forces involved, and the location.

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Yes, you ignored my comment because you did not respond to it and continued to present only those sources that do not mention the existing title to advance your position.

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Other than minor corrections for insignificant typographical errors made before other editors reply, changes should be noted to avoid misrepresenting the original post.

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No. There are more than dozen sources which directly support term "uprising". They are not written by Ustaše and whatnot. They are written by contemporary scholars.--

1938:

The month is necessary because there were other massacres in the same location in the same year, the Serbian Knowledge mentions August 1941 "Sanski Most massacre" at

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compilation looks like a really biased primary source, given that it seems to be a collection of works by refugees or at least meant for refugees, published by the

2463:: The article title should use a place name familiar to English speakers. "May 1941 uprising in northwest Bosnia" is a possibility; it uses the description in the 2884: 2762: 2758: 2744: 2642: 2638: 2624: 543: 1914:

As another English-speaking editor noted in the first comment on the talk page, there's no common English title for the event. We can come up with a variety of

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danger. But, that's not really an encyclopedic endeavor, because a sober, generic assessment of these events is that it was really a massacre of civilians. --

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justified) based on your request at WikiProject Serbia. Joy wants to punish me because I pointed to misuse of his admin tools which led to his recent block.

1843:. Editors involved here should feel free to comment there, including by telling me that I have misunderstood the whole thing, if that is appropriate. Thanks. 743:

This is getting quite tiresome, Antidiskriminator. Yet another new article with an inappropriate title. This title does not apparently exist in English, per

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resulted in 27 civilians being killed and hung in the streets and park of Sanski Most. I suggest a useful NDESC might be "May 1941 Sanski Most killings".

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We're talking past each other again, and I see no reason to believe that I'm causing the disconnect. Ad, you added sentences into the article saying

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You should really stop going in circles and not listening to others and initiate WP:RM process if you think you have valid arguments for renaming.--

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Just as I was thinking we were making a modicum of progress here, you go back to this conspiracy theory nonsense. *shakes head in disbelief* --

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Besides, Branko Petranović doesn't consistently refer to this event as an uprising, either. In a (probably illegally scanned, but hey) book at

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This event has not received much attention in the English-speaking world. Per source I presented, this event is known as Đurđevdan uprising.--

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and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

1055:

Once again, you fail to comprehend English. Perhaps I was not explicit enough for you. I have amended my comment to clarify what I meant.

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Instead to reply to my above good faith question, you presented part of my comment on your talkpage taken out of the context. Here is

899:, Paul Mojzes, 2011, which in turn references Praća-Veljović, “Genocide in Sanski Most,” pp. 75–82, that might in turn be part of the 223: 2839: 2740:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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Govoreći o programskoj orijentaciji NDH, Viktor Gutić, ustaški povjerenik i stožernik u Banjaluci, u svom govoru u Sanskom Mostu ...

328: 2191: 2181: 2854: 411: 385: 1619:су успјели потиснути усташе, које су у паници побјегле у Кијево и Сански Мост тражећи помоћ од њемачког гарнизона из Приједора" 1257:

imported title was also used in English sources, that would be fine, but I don't see anything approaching such an assessment. --

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So, at this point, I honestly have to ask you - did you even read this document? Do you not see how this was not an organized

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Again, this is an important event and, while the above may seem overly critical, the community can make this article better.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140714223718/http://kons.gov.ba/main.php?id_struct=50&lang=4&action=view&id=1832

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140714223718/http://kons.gov.ba/main.php?id_struct=50&lang=4&action=view&id=1832

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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although article does cite reliable source (Petranović) which emphasizes that this event is known as "Đurđevdan uprising"?

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One of the sources used in this article (disregarding for a moment that it as such needs to be analyzed) says explicitly:

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of why this happened should be left until later; the intro should include just the objective facts about what took place.

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I contested your move and explained you why. Please revert yourself and initiate RM if you still believe you are right.--

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This PROD of the article about the largest and the most elite military unit of Mihailović's Chetniks by Peacemaker67 (

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The article is well researched, but in some places it is too detailed. How do we know for sure it was 38 grenades?

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Please don't misinterpret my comments. You put "follow" under quotation as if I used that term, which I did not.--

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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You rushed to join Joy without carefully reading this discussion. Joy cherry picked Drago Njegovan, not Šušnjar.

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otpor ustašama koji su počeli da vređaju verske običaje kod Srba i da ometaju krsnu slavu kod nekih seljaka.

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How can you say Petranović doesn't consistently refer to this event if he did not mention it in another work?

2796: 2712: 2676: 2596: 514:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a 84: 63: 1647:

1941. u historijinaroda Bosne i Hercegovine: Naučni skup, održan u Drvaru od 7. do 9. oktobra 1971. godine

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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No, (with respect to Ed) that is unnecessary, the purpose of the RfC is to establish consensus on title

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Also, anybody can see that two of you are involved in this dispute and that you were recently blocked (

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the article does cite reliable source which emphasizes that this event is known as "Đurđevdan uprising"

1284:

he quotes Gutić's infamous speech, but there's no mention of any of these uprising circumstances, just

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massacre in retribution. That's I believe what's in two of those sources that we discussed earlier. --

1288:. Again it seems that these war crimes and a pattern of persecution that is the notable topic here. -- 2605:

http://www.webcitation.org/5kwrEj3LA?url=http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577939_7/Croatia.html

1524:, but that's orthogonal to my argument. No policy is telling anyone to make these kinds of errors. -- 2560:

for you replies. Let's leave it be for the time being then. Kind regards and happy editing, Myrtle.

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No. Its not whatever. Please be more careful in future not to violate wikipedia talkpage guidelines.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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if we want to claim so, the article needs to cite those reliable sources that claim that instead.

1103: 1033:(German for German politicians, Turkish for Turkish rivers, Portuguese for Brazilian towns etc.). 2765:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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This is not the first time you complain that some "title doesn't exist in English". Please read

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You first cherry-picked one source that says this event did not gain characteristics of uprising

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You haven't presented any convention violated by the current article title, which is based on

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you ignored my comment and pointed to work of Mojzes which discuss this event in more details

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Title: Are there other alternative names that could be considered as a title or redirect?

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List of articles I recently created that Joy and Peacemaker67 tried to rename or delete

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

2667:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about

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I'm not really advancing a position that this shouldn't be called "Đurđevdan uprising"

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follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about

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No uninvolved editors participated in this discussion and supported your position.

2103:

No uninvolved editors participated in this discussion and supported your position.

2038:, which we appear to be working towards. It is not just about a move. In my view, 1956:

The massacre, described in the aftermath section, happened after this uprising. --

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Government of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Commission to Preserve National Monuments

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http://kons.gov.ba/main.php?id_struct=50&lang=4&action=view&id=1832

2725:

http://kons.gov.ba/main.php?id_struct=50&lang=4&action=view&id=1832

710: 2753:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2633:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1597:

Most of the activists from the right bank of the Sana River and the Đurđevdan

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aimed at destroying or taking over the position of an established authority

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Use of google to find online sources is certainly not contrary to policy

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Balkan Genocides: Holocaust and Ethnic Cleansing in the Twentieth Century

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discussion. Therefore I will not insist on your replies. All the best.--

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radi opravdanja akcija koje su bile u planu i pripremi protiv Srba. 60

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There is no consensus here which can serve as basis for RM request. --

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certainly is notable. So would be any revolt or reprisal in that war.

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of my edit in which I explain you why your accusation that I created

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For the third time, please reply to my above good faith questions:

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There are many other sources using the same name for this event. --

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if he did not mention this event in another work you brought here?

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Knowledge:Administrators'_noticeboard#Durdevdan_uprising_article

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then you noticed that Mojzes which relies on compilation Šušnjar

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Looking at your comment here, it looks like another hodgepodge:

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I already explained you that your accusations that I created

1317:" - How can you say this after my repeated explanations that 2615:

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577939_7/Croatia.html

2609:

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577939_7/Croatia.html

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does fit into the spirit of the "use English" guideline. --

1330:"there's no mention of any of these uprising circumstances" 2715:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Please stop going in circles and not listening to others.

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If Šušnjar was unreliable I doubt Mojzes would use it.

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Podgrmeč u NOB.: Podgrmeč do ustanka i u ustanku 1941

1560:"Petranović doesn't consistently refer to this event" 1365:

Antidiskriminator later posted this to my talk page:

1326:"Petranović doesn't consistently refer to this event" 574:

This article has been checked against the following

323:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 218:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2757:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2637:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2063:Incorrect. The title of article about Đurđevdan is 1069:

No. You changed the comment after I replied to it (

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I expected you. Another source used in the article:

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I politely ask you to please remove it. 8: 2890:Start-Class Balkan military history articles 2835:All WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina pages 2360:Speaking of "creating a false narrative"... 1631:. Vojnoizdavaćki i Novinski Centar. p. 178. 1203:"the shorter phrase has a better ring to it" 861:. Vojnoizdavaćki i Novinski Centar. p. 178. 127:Knowledge:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina 2895:Balkan military history task force articles 1379:. Vojnoizdavaćki i Novinski Centar. p. 178. 963:"looks like a really biased primary source" 919:It should be noted that the aforementioned 130:Template:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina 2382:. If this doesn't indicate conspiracy (an 2207:SS Polizei-Selbstschutz-Regiment Sandschak 2168: 656: 570: 462: 374: 269: 164: 58: 2703:I have just modified 2 external links on 2587:I have just modified 2 external links on 2500:Quotes and words which are not in English 2274:) is probably enough for sanctioning him. 2197:June 1941 uprising in eastern Herzegovina 1628:Srbija u drugom svetskom ratu: 1939-1945 1376:Srbija u drugom svetskom ratu: 1939-1945 858:Srbija u drugom svetskom ratu: 1939-1945 508:This article is within the scope of the 2825:C-Class Bosnia and Herzegovina articles 2386:conspiracy), I don't know what does. -- 2171: 1652:Neprijateljsko reagovanje i odmazda na 464: 376: 271: 166: 60: 30: 2696:External links modified (January 2018) 1675: 1671: 1660: 528:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history 518:. To use this banner, please see the 2885:Start-Class military history articles 1640:Đurđev, Branislav; Antonić, Zdravko; 531:Template:WikiProject Military history 7: 1826:This is not a conventional RfC close 1815:The following discussion is closed. 703:European military history task force 317:This article is within the scope of 212:This article is within the scope of 49:It is of interest to the following 2875:Low-importance Yugoslavia articles 2047:is completely unknown in English. 1342:as per above presented quote from 686:Balkan military history task force 114:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina 25: 2910:Start-Class World War II articles 2707:. Please take a moment to review 2591:. Please take a moment to review 2915:World War II task force articles 2491:The discussion above is closed. 1613:. Vojnoizdavački zavod. p. 447. 1474:, but rather a desperate act of 1381:which is available online here ( 633: 622: 611: 600: 589: 501: 466: 425:Knowledge:WikiProject Yugoslavia 399: 378: 304: 294: 273: 199: 189: 168: 93: 83: 62: 31: 2880:WikiProject Yugoslavia articles 2845:Mid-importance Croatia articles 2613:Corrected formatting/usage for 1688:Hadžimuhamedović, Amra (2003). 1205:, why did you tag the article? 961:then you complain that Šušnjar 548:This article has been rated as 445:This article has been rated as 428:Template:WikiProject Yugoslavia 357:This article has been rated as 252:This article has been rated as 147:This article has been rated as 133:Bosnia and Herzegovina articles 2860:Low-importance Serbia articles 2182:Lim-Sandžak Chetnik Detachment 1918:-abiding titles, for example: 1420:. Vojnoizdavački Zavod. p. 60. 1282:http://znaci.net/zb/4_25_1.pdf 1: 2850:All WikiProject Croatia pages 2570:06:37, 10 November 2015 (UTC) 1932:May 1941 Sanski Most massacre 1922:May 1941 Sanski Most uprising 1586:. Opština Oštra Luka. p. 58. 1543:Template:Cleanup-articletitle 1395:. Opština Oštra Luka. p. 58. 1308:Template:Cleanup-articletitle 1209:says this tag should be used 1207:Template:Cleanup-articletitle 331:and see a list of open tasks. 232:Knowledge:WikiProject Croatia 226:and see a list of open tasks. 101:Bosnia and Herzegovina portal 2811:01:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC) 2548:23:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC) 2533:23:54, 9 November 2015 (UTC) 2522:Knowledge:WikiProject Serbia 2515:20:40, 9 November 2015 (UTC) 2192:German–Partisan negotiations 511:Military history WikiProject 337:Knowledge:WikiProject Serbia 235:Template:WikiProject Croatia 2870:C-Class Yugoslavia articles 2865:WikiProject Serbia articles 2705:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 2589:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 2232:Anti-Serb riots in Sarajevo 2227:Leftist errors (Yugoslavia) 2040:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 1927:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 1625:Petranović, Branko (1992). 1422:which is available online ( 1417:Ustanak u Bosanskoj krajini 1406:which is available online ( 1373:Petranović, Branko (1992). 855:Petranović, Branko (1992). 407:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 340:Template:WikiProject Serbia 108:May 1941 Sanski Most revolt 2931: 2774:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2700:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2654:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2584:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2222:Skanderbeg (military unit) 1725:" about this event(!?). -- 1650:. Veselin Masleša. p. 75. 594:Referencing and citation: 451:project's importance scale 363:project's importance scale 258:project's importance scale 153:project's importance scale 2217:Montenegrin National Army 1940:sr:Масакр у Санском Мосту 1906:18:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC) 1808:00:48, 26 July 2014 (UTC) 1221:, as I explained above.-- 1073:). That is not allowed.-- 973:Please revert yourself.-- 717: 701: 684: 655: 547: 534:military history articles 496: 444: 394: 356: 289: 251: 184: 146: 78: 57: 2840:C-Class Croatia articles 2691:17:05, 6 June 2017 (UTC) 2493:Please do not modify it. 2487:05:37, 9 July 2014 (UTC) 2431:18:28, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2416:18:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2396:18:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2370:09:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2356:09:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2340:08:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2317:08:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2294:21:21, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2129:18:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2115:08:59, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2092:07:42, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2077:07:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2057:02:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 2030:18:09, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 2007:16:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 1993:12:25, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 1966:11:53, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 1952:11:39, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 1858:20:38, 6 June 2014 (UTC) 1817:Please do not modify it. 1777:13:03, 8 June 2014 (UTC) 1762:12:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) 1735:08:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC) 1534:06:50, 8 June 2014 (UTC) 1512:11:49, 7 June 2014 (UTC) 1489:11:38, 7 June 2014 (UTC) 1360:12:53, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 1298:09:37, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 1267:09:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 1231:23:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1194:19:39, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1151:09:57, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1134:08:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1120:08:07, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1098:08:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1083:07:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1065:06:51, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1049:06:18, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 1007:04:30, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 983:23:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 942:22:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 914:22:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 885:22:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 844:22:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 2855:C-Class Serbia articles 2580:External links modified 992:, I would think that a 804:21:11, 5 May 2014 (UTC) 781:19:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC) 766:03:00, 5 May 2014 (UTC) 719:World War II task force 660:Associated task forces: 605:Coverage and accuracy: 409:is within the scope of 18:Talk:Đurđevdan uprising 2212:Sandžak Muslim militia 1997:Joy is wise; I agree. 1845: 1715:advised to initiate RM 1607:Bokan, Branko (1972). 1580:Šućur, Krstan (2011). 1328:and then you say that 714: 698: 681: 638:Supporting materials: 566: 412:WikiProject Yugoslavia 124:Bosnia and Herzegovina 119:Bosnia and Herzegovina 70:Bosnia and Herzegovina 39:This article is rated 2187:Battle for Novi Pazar 1414:Lukač, Dušan (1967). 1389:Dodik, Petar (2011). 713: 697: 680: 565: 2755:regular verification 2635:regular verification 1461:Đurđevdanski ustanak 866:Đurđevdanski ustanak 2745:After February 2018 2625:After February 2018 1791:Title and scope RfC 1459:(BTW no mention of 627:Grammar and style: 580:for B-class status: 431:Yugoslavia articles 215:WikiProject Croatia 2799:InternetArchiveBot 2750:InternetArchiveBot 2679:InternetArchiveBot 2630:InternetArchiveBot 2202:Đurđevdan uprising 1818: 1713:Although you were 1670:Unknown parameter 1551:Why did you write 1369:Take for example: 1306:- Why did you put 1213:Naming conventions 929:Srpski Sanski Most 794:title or similar. 715: 699: 682: 567: 516:list of open tasks 320:WikiProject Serbia 45:content assessment 2775: 2655: 2520:Maybe someone at 2408:Antidiskriminator 2348:Antidiskriminator 2286:Antidiskriminator 2239: 2238: 2107:Antidiskriminator 2069:Antidiskriminator 2022:Antidiskriminator 1958:Antidiskriminator 1816: 1769:Antidiskriminator 1727:Antidiskriminator 1592:978-99938-41-08-1 1504:Antidiskriminator 1463:in there AFAICT) 1401:978-99938-41-08-1 1352:Antidiskriminator 1223:Antidiskriminator 1143:Antidiskriminator 1112:Antidiskriminator 1075:Antidiskriminator 1041:Antidiskriminator 975:Antidiskriminator 877:Antidiskriminator 773:Antidiskriminator 736: 735: 732: 731: 728: 727: 724: 723: 651: 650: 629:criterion not met 607:criterion not met 596:criterion not met 552:on the project's 520:full instructions 461: 460: 457: 456: 373: 372: 369: 368: 268: 267: 264: 263: 163: 162: 159: 158: 16:(Redirected from 2922: 2809: 2800: 2773: 2772: 2751: 2689: 2680: 2653: 2652: 2631: 2169: 1723:remember hearing 1708: 1699: 1697: 1683: 1677: 1673: 1668: 1666: 1658: 1636: 1621: 1603: 1558:Why did you say 1541:Why did you put 1421: 1405: 1380: 1102:No its not. 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1842: 1837: 1835: 1832:attention of 1829: 1827: 1820: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1790: 1778: 1774: 1770: 1765: 1764: 1763: 1759: 1755: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1743: 1736: 1732: 1728: 1724: 1720: 1716: 1712: 1707: 1705: 1702:To quell the 1691: 1685: 1681: 1664: 1657: 1655: 1649: 1648: 1643: 1642:Redžić, Enver 1638: 1635: 1630: 1629: 1623: 1620: 1618: 1612: 1611: 1605: 1602: 1600: 1594: 1589: 1585: 1584: 1578: 1577: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1561: 1557: 1554: 1550: 1548: 1544: 1540: 1539: 1537: 1536: 1535: 1531: 1527: 1523: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1513: 1509: 1505: 1501: 1497: 1493: 1492: 1491: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1477: 1473: 1469: 1464: 1462: 1455: 1451: 1449: 1445: 1443: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1428: 1425: 1419: 1418: 1412: 1409: 1403: 1398: 1394: 1393: 1387: 1384: 1378: 1377: 1371: 1370: 1368: 1367: 1366: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1349: 1345: 1341: 1337: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1309: 1305: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1295: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1255: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1232: 1228: 1224: 1220: 1216: 1214: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1191: 1187: 1183: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1173: 1152: 1148: 1144: 1140: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1131: 1127: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1109: 1105: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1095: 1091: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1080: 1076: 1072: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1062: 1058: 1054: 1053: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1032: 1026: 1025: 1023: 1019: 1016: 1013: 1012: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1004: 1000: 995: 991: 986: 985: 984: 980: 976: 972: 967: 964: 960: 957: 954: 951: 948: 947: 945: 944: 943: 939: 935: 930: 926: 922: 921:Šušnjar 1941. 918: 917: 916: 915: 911: 907: 902: 901:Šušnjar 1941. 898: 894: 886: 882: 878: 874: 873: 869: 867: 860: 859: 853: 852: 848: 847: 846: 845: 841: 837: 830: 826: 825: 822: 819: 818: 817: 811: 805: 801: 797: 793: 789: 784: 783: 782: 778: 774: 770: 769: 768: 767: 763: 759: 754: 750: 746: 738: 720: 712: 708: 707: 704: 696: 692: 691: 687: 679: 675: 674: 671: 669: 664: 663: 658: 654: 647: 645: 640:criterion met 632: 621: 618:criterion met 610: 599: 588: 587: 586: 585: 582: 579: 578: 572: 569: 564: 560: 559: 555: 554:quality scale 551: 545: 542: 541: 538: 521: 517: 513: 512: 507: 504: 500: 499: 495: 488: 484: 480: 475: 472: 469: 465: 452: 448: 442: 439: 438: 435: 418: 414: 413: 408: 405: 402: 398: 397: 393: 387: 384: 381: 377: 364: 360: 354: 351: 350: 347: 330: 326: 322: 321: 313: 312:Serbia portal 302: 300: 297: 293: 292: 288: 282: 279: 276: 272: 259: 255: 249: 246: 245: 242: 225: 221: 217: 216: 208: 197: 195: 192: 188: 187: 183: 177: 174: 171: 167: 154: 150: 144: 141: 140: 137: 120: 116: 115: 110: 109: 102: 91: 89: 86: 82: 81: 77: 71: 68: 65: 61: 56: 52: 46: 38: 34: 29: 28: 19: 2797: 2794: 2769:source check 2748: 2742: 2739: 2702: 2699: 2677: 2674: 2649:source check 2628: 2622: 2619: 2586: 2583: 2558:Peacemaker67 2540:Peacemaker67 2530: 2525: 2503: 2492: 2473: 2469: 2460: 2459: 2402: 2383: 2379: 2375: 2366:send... over 2362:Peacemaker67 2281: 2269: 2102: 2088:send... over 2084:Peacemaker67 2053:send... over 2049:Peacemaker67 2044: 2035: 1846: 1838: 1830: 1825: 1824: 1814: 1722: 1703: 1701: 1694:. 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