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1453:. The only real question that we need to answer is what should be the title of this article. That's a simple question, and not malformed. The titles of other articles and the targets of redirects are different matters that can be discussed separately. The only question we really need to answer in this RM is whether the title of this article should be changed or not. If the title "Tiananmen Incident" is ambiguous (or improperly capitalized), that title should be changed. We don't need to decide whether to do a bunch of other things or not before we make that decision. —
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1611:. Tiananmen is an important central place associated with many “incidents”, “incident” being a euphemism that can encompass a huge range of events. The primary distant disambiguation for these incidents, collectively, is the year, and so the year belongs in the title, whether at the front, or parenthetically at the end. The disambiguating reference by day-month is a sign of primary sources very close to the event in time, and the best sources to use for titling are more distant, time and space. —
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1014:) identification of the topic. The current title is too ambiguous – most people would think the term refers to the 1989 incident. "April 5" without a year is too confusing and is misleading since the protest started on April 4 and "Up to two million people may have visited Tiananmen Square on 4 April"). "Incident" is vague and using uppercase for "Incident" is strange. It's better to pick a title that is more consistent with
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the proposed move. A follow-up RfD would probably just involve rehashing a lot of the same evidence of usage which is being discussed here. I would encourage !voters supporting a move to be explicit about what they think should happen to the base name. (If nothing else, it will be helpful to the closer. They have to do
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1431:(which was not raised in the recent RM there). It begs the question as to whether the 1989 event should be titled "Tiananmen Square incident"? This RM is being conducted without explicit notification to that page. For these reason, I would maintain that this RM is malformed and it is too late to remedy these issues.
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I agree. But I think we shouldn't let other questions get too tangled up in the discussion and become something that blocks a decision on the basic question posed by this RM, which is what the title of this one article should be. Calling the RM "malformed" does not help in evaluating the RM proposal,
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rather than being a circular redirect back to this article. The OP offers no evidence for the proposal, only an opinion. The OP has not disclosed the full consequences of the proposed move (intended or implied) and there has been no clarification to the opening question by Colin M that might resolve
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It seems that this event, in 1976, is being conflated with the 1989 incident, at the end of the section headed "The
Incident". At the end of that section the last sentence reads: "Deng Xiaoping was formally stripped of all positions "inside and outside the Party" on 7 April, following this "Tiananmen
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While it could be decided via a separate RfD discussion, I think it would be ideal if this discussion could, in the event that there's consensus for a move, also establish consensus about whether there's a primary topic for
Tiananmen Incident, since it's intimately related to the factors motivating
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This section seems to suggest that (a) the main issue between the Gang of Four and the moderates was ideology, rather than the struggle to succeed Mao; (b) Mao was able to be "consulted;" and (c) that Deng
Xiaoping did not successfully escape and find a base from which to plot his return under the
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is clear that disambiguation is only required when there is actual conflict in article titles. There is no actual conflict and concision is preferred. Guidance is also clear that the apparent conflict in title with one other article should be resolved by a hatnote here (though this needs to be
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but this is a circular redirect back to this article. The issue could potentially be resolved buy correcting the DAB link without a move. Both events are referred to commonly as "Tiananmen Square incident" per
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The merge seems reasonable, but I've reverted your change to the redirect. The title "Tiananmen Square
Incident" is too ambiguous to identify a primary topic. If you disagree, it should probably be taken to
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for "Tiananmen
Incident", a hatnote is not sufficient to fix that problem. If you want to propose to also rename some other article(s), I suggest to submit an RM for the other changes that you propose.
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1530:. Therefore, the extra precision serves no useful purpose. However, if the intention is (or perhaps should be) a number of changes not defined in the OP, then this RM is, in my opinion, malformed.
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support moving this away and converting this into a dab. lots of incidents happened at this place. not all are protests. for example, a recent and notable one occurred in 2013.
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There is no actual article title conflict and no actual redirect conflict at this time. The only remedy required at present is to have the hat note at this article link to
1018:. The English Knowledge (XXG) should use a title that is understandable to English-language readers, and the term used to refer to it in Chinese doesn't matter as much. —
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this. Consequently, editors cannot reasonably make an informed decision that fully considers the implications of the proposed move. There is also the issue of whether
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Please do not move a page while it is subject to a
Requested Move discussion. Once seven days have passed and a consensus is clear, someone will close this discussion.
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personal protection of
General Xu Shiyou, commander of the Guangzhou Military Region but rather was somehow sentenced to house arrest. I believe all three are wrong.
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since this RM is just a proposal to rename this one article, which is not a malformed question at all. Personally, I think the current article title should lead to
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though I don't have any particular preference for the new name. The title "Tiananmen
Incident" is ambiguous and should redirect to a disambiguation page.
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and redirected that title to the 1989 incident. Those two disambiguation pages already had almost the same content, in slightly different form. —
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Not necessarily from the info in the ngram without perusal of the sources. A 1989 hit simply means the source came from 1989; it could have been
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1198:. There is too much nuance to the question. Considering all of these issues, I am quite certain that the matter should first be addressed at
849:; "incident" correctly refers to the 1976 events, but is occasionally used to refer to the 1989 events; if a change is needed, redirect it to
1353:, asserting that the current title is an ambiguous term. What is malformed about that? If the topic of the current article is not a proper
1317:). But I agree with you on the point; I put forth the the ngram link for the information of editors here and not to argue against a move.
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compare the three spellings. They would indicate that "Tiananmen incident" (regardless of spelling) primarily refers to the 1989 event.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Massacre".", where the WP link at the end of the sentence about the 1976 event takes the reader to the WP article on the 1989 incident.
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renaming of this article is needed. If necessary, there could be some secondary RM to consider other candidate titles. —
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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related articles on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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1046:, per AjaxSmack. That would also be OK, but in my opinion, "protest(s)" is a more clear description of the event. —
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The Tian'anmen incident took place in the People's
Republic of China immediately following the April Fifth Movement.
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This event appears to be known in Chinese as the "April 5 Tiananmen Incident" and this could be a better title.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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I agree that it is not malformed. The nominator argued that the present title is ambiguous and advocated
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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And in fact, per 力 below, if we can't agree to use one of my favorite titles, the proposed title
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redirects, it is an issue that can be discussed along with the proper title for this article.
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I don't see why it was immediate following the April Fifth Movement, which took place in 1919.
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User:Fangyuan switched the two digits four and five. It was May the fourth Movement in 1919.
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with a cross-notification here. For these reasons, I would state the this RM is malformed.
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OPPOSE “April 5 Tiananmen Incident”. References using that name already assume the year.
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I don't see anything malformed about this RM. The proposed change is to move one article,
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with the base name, and it's not obvious to me what the "default" fate should even be.)
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I've reverted a premature move of this page per requests by 162 etc. and AjaxSmack at
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The RM does not fully detail and consider the consequences of the proposed move per
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in part. There is no actual article title conflict between this article and the
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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There's a photo in the article ... so why the request for a photo?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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corrected). The proposal as written makes it no easier to find
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This article describes the time, and the location, but not
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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title should redirect to the existing disambiguation page
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On 29 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be
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Start-Class China-related articles of Mid-importance
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1119:(s). "Incident" is more common term in literature.
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949:is the appropriate venue to resolve that. —
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456:. Was it a protest? Was it a celebration? —
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610:Am I reading this correctly?
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50:April 5, 2020
47:
46:April 5, 2010
43:
42:April 5, 2009
39:
38:April 5, 2008
35:
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29:
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491:No consensus
490:
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453:
377:
338:
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283:
243:
178:
138:
132:China portal
82:WikiProjects
31:
1493:BarrelProof
1455:BarrelProof
1429:WP:NPOVNAME
1360:BarrelProof
1286:with square
1184:proper name
1180:WP:NPOVNAME
1070:BarrelProof
1048:BarrelProof
1020:BarrelProof
951:BarrelProof
927:Mx. Granger
908:BarrelProof
878:Mx. Granger
672:move review
495:Vegaswikian
426:—Preceding
384:Fangyuan1st
72:Start-class
36:section on
33:On this day
1673:Categories
1445:This is a
1427:satisfies
1188:This ngram
1168:this ngram
1012:WP:NATURAL
993:(she/they)
979:Jishiboka1
829:a move to
779:Jishiboka1
737:Relisting.
726:Jishiboka1
1627:SmokeyJoe
1613:SmokeyJoe
1553:(powera,
1470:something
1396:AjaxSmack
1323:AjaxSmack
1282:AjaxSmack
1259:AjaxSmack
1246:n An Men"
1172:WP:NCCAPS
1138:AjaxSmack
859:AjaxSmack
787:become a
681:moved to
493:to move.
328:moved to
259:Socialism
250:socialism
206:Socialism
28:Main Page
1449:, not a
1176:MOS:CAPS
1001:Move to
973:WP:RM/TR
937:contribs
888:contribs
814:162 etc.
741:Spekkios
594:RMCD bot
428:unsigned
412:DOR (HK)
1592:per 力.
1474:Colin M
1236:nanmen"
1155:Colin M
1087:Support
810:Comment
797:Colin M
756:Support
553:Colipon
372:Kwantus
286:on the
181:on the
30:in the
1551:User:力
1451:WP:RfD
1114:Oppose
1096:Centre
989:Tamzin
947:WP:RFD
923:WP:RFD
837:Oppose
827:Oppose
704:Vpab15
549:Oppose
536:Hongdx
458:Sladen
78:scale.
48:, and
1594:Srnec
1523:WP:AT
1447:WP:RM
1349:, to
1315:these
1311:about
1196:WP:AT
1102:Right
902:into
612:Wayne
472:Move?
353:Year?
316:moved
154:China
145:China
101:China
1661:talk
1631:talk
1617:talk
1598:talk
1579:talk
1575:RZuo
1536:talk
1497:talk
1478:talk
1459:talk
1437:talk
1364:talk
1358:—
1298:talk
1288:and
1208:talk
1174:and
1099:Left
1074:talk
1066:some
1052:talk
1024:talk
955:talk
931:talk
912:talk
882:talk
818:talk
801:talk
768:talk
745:talk
730:talk
708:talk
644:talk
559:Talk
540:talk
526:talk
499:talk
462:talk
436:talk
416:talk
344:talk
326:was
1240:"Ti
1230:"Ti
1126:or
1042:or
1036:Or
1005:or
986:--
925:. —
876:. —
845:to
791:to
638:. —
424:我
318:to
278:Mid
173:Mid
1675::
1663:)
1633:)
1619:)
1600:)
1581:)
1565:)
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1392:—
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1255:—
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1134:—
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747:)
734:—
720:→
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664:.
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542:)
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516:—
510:→
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464:)
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44:,
40:,
1659:(
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1562:ν
1556:π
1534:(
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1362:(
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1243:e
1233:e
1225:a
1206:(
1106:✉
1072:(
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1022:(
981::
977:@
953:(
934:·
929:(
910:(
885:·
880:(
816:(
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777:@
766:(
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706:(
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697:(
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642:(
561:)
557:(
555:+
538:(
524:(
497:(
460:(
434:(
414:(
342:(
333:.
290:.
185:.
84::
52:.
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