1584:), and this needs to be made clear in order to convey why opposition is protesting against Shahbag. 3) A legal issues section discussing the legal issues about which the parties are fighting is crucial for this article: Shahbag is demanding outright conviction and capital punishment from a trial (can protesters demand conviction or a particular sentence from a court?) that has already been declared unfair by international media and organizations due to inequality between the number of witnesses that the prosecution and defense can present (unlimited for prosecution, max. 6 for defence), prosecution's use of hearsay evidence, leaked Skype conference revealing government manipulation of the trial process, the abduction of defense witnesses by law enforcers, and conviction without proof of direct participation (i.e. personally undertaking or ordering the acts of murder or rape. One was rather found guilty of “complicity” in or “abetting” an offence, “accompany the gang to the crime site having rifle in hand” or facilitating mass murder and rape by being “present” at the scene) (References: Wall Street Journal:
1613:) 5) The above list of references is not exhaustive. So what we get is that pro-government/pro-Shahbag editors are twisting facts either w/o references or at times using some domestic or non-reputable Indian yellow journalism as references and reverting edits with significant international references to world's major media reports that would be considered acceptable by all. I urgently draw the attention of Knowledge (XXG) admins to consider this major and ongoing vandalism regarding a very sensitive current issue. Empty comments such as we want peace and that the opposition is criminal, or photographs of government activists from around the world should not be used to establish an important article in Knowledge (XXG). (
1649:
section...'. When you perform a 'Ctrl+C' and 'Ctrl+V', please be careful whether it is relevant to an article or not. Where did you find 'opposition to pro-government
Shahbag protest'? The violent protest by Jamaat-e-Islami activists were against the Sayeedi verdict - and they did a great deal of violence (especially attacking the minorities in Bangladesh) to be criticized by the media. You are talking about world media, even today there was a press release by Amnesty where they criticized Jamaat-e-Islami for their violent attacks on Hindu minority
1572:
major international reports and neutral local news are missing from references. I will demonstrate this point by point: 1) The protests center on a 9 month long genocide in 1971 which includes atrocities committed by both warring sides but major casualties having been from the
Bangladeshi side. The present article claims the total number to be 3 million, but internationally the accepted figure that is officially used (established at a conference of the US Department of State) is +/- 3 lakhs (References:
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1216:, since the Bangaldeshi government or Police has nothing to gain by starting a 'riot'. It is obvious from the media coverage and news reports that who are the victims (the minorities, the government offices, police posts, mukti-juddho sangsads) and who are the attackers (the Jamaat-Shibir activists). So, Rossi101, please refrain yourself from diverting the article into a different direction by falsifying the contents.
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verdict, while people from the masses are taking to arms because of rumors (Sayeedi's face on the moon) or religious intolerance (like violence against Hindu families). But, they still are part of the general time-frame and context and are interlinked and overlapping set of events, thus they need one article to capture the subject.
1362:
If needed, separate articles on separate parts of the whole is always possible. And, each of the three individual articles mentioned can be
Wikilinked to each other for better access to related information. Let's remember, related information is not limited to these three articles alone. For example,
1571:
The neutrality of this article is seriously contested. See the talk page of the existing article. As I have said the article is asserting points w/o references or at best using domestic pro-government/pro-Shahbag yellow journalism as references to create a pro-government slant in the article, while
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4) The issue was already settled in the TALK page of the existing article and it was decided that the original article would be renamed to "2013 Bangladesh
Protests". The motive of creating this page is to belittle the counter government protests as part of the bigger scene while the pro-government
891:
The title '2013 Bangladesh riot' is too general to infer anything at all. The riot or violence started right after the
Sayeedi verdict given by ICT - and the term ICT is explained in the article. Even if you change the title, you should keep the current contents, since it is now well referenced and
1358:
For the title change proposal, we must consider the facts that not all of the riots, while interlinked and overlapping on top of being part of the general context, are about ICT or verdict of even a person. One party is instigating riots against government treatment of rioters, another against the
1648:
Dear
Shamelessshahbag, when you talk about neutrality of an article, please be more specific. Where did you find these topics in the current article?? :'protests center on a 9 month long genocide in 1971', 'The article gives the impression that all war criminals are being tried', 'A legal issues
933:
First of all, the article was considered for deletion since there are other articles in
Knowledge (XXG) regarding the similar ongoing events in Bangladesh. Secondly, I am not the only editor who raised concern about the POV of your original article and the title of the article. I have put a title
1604:
4) The article does not mention of "Mass killings" suffered by the opposition to pro-government
Shahbag protest due to indiscriminate firing by police (AL Jazeera, Human Rights Watch), where opposition protests should have been countered in ways that are internationally acceptable (Human Rights
970:: Please suggest a new title for the article, since '2013 Bangladesh riots' is very general and it may indicate that a communal riot is going on, which in fact, is not true - the minorities (Hindus) have been attacked by the Jamaat Shibir activists which is one sided violence, not 'riots'.
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discussion topic in the talk page, where you did not talk at all until now. (I have put several warning messages in your talk page which you disregarded by the way) And there are other editors who thought that '2013 Bangladesh violence after ICT verdict' is a better choice than yours.
948:
Even after several warnings, reports you are still persistently changing the title and the contents. You can see that all the editors are trying their best to make it a better article, still you are stubborn on your cause. Please do not revert again until your case has been solved:
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Rossi101, can you explain how does 'civil killing' by police raise a 'religious conflict' as a 'side effect'? 2013 Bangladesh riot is a violence due to the aftermath of the
Sayeedi verdict. So, please do not change the title without the 'consensus' of the editors.
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From these links you can see that all violence are started just around the verdict. So, I think it will be better if we create an article, which will contain all these violence committed by Jamaat, which will include a large section about attack on Hindu
756:
Jayantanath, Thanks for your opinion. If you search
Bangladeshi newspapers since november of last year, you will see only minority Hindu people, but also police, general people, blogger, journalists were killed by Jamaat. Here I provide some news links-
840:
The 'ICT' is not a clear term to be used in title. The term 'riot' has been widely used in media more than of 'violence' to explain the matter. And, there have been more than one verdicts, that's why using 'verdict' relates to indefiniteness. So,
824:
regarding changing the title, yet he/she is persistently changing the title and reverting the contents to a previous biased version. Please discuss here and raise valid points about the title and the contents before blindly reverting the article.
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The Shahbagh protest is a different matter from the riot. The riot has not been occurred in Shahbag. Still the Shahbag protest is running without any disturbance. The riot is a separate matter from Shahbag occurred in elsewhere throughout
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protest centered at Shahbag to be worthy of having an independent article. (For evidence see how the creator of this page uses the word "riot" to describe the bigger issue of which the opposition protest would be the significant part).
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that the title of that article will be changed to reflect the opposing protests that international media considers to be part of a single political turmoil in 2013. It is then pointless to open similar articles such as
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3) International entities and media such as UN, Human Rights Watch, Al Jazeera, The Economist, BBC, CNN are reporting on both the pro-government and counter-government protests as a part of the same political turmoil
541:
I have added a neutrality tag in the article since the article is terribly biased. It is not the Police force of Bangladesh, but the Jamaat Shibir who are responsible for the mayhem and riots (Please see CNN report
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Totally agree with Freemesm, since the government deployed police to save the common people from the riots/ violence by Jamaat-Shibir and their allies, not for starting riots. It does not make sense to term it as
1095:
covers both the attacks on minority and other violence committed by Jamaat-Shibir as well as the clashes between the Jamaat activists and Police which has received the highest media coverage. The article
1580:) 2) The article gives the impression that all war criminals are being tried where only a few top leaders of opposition parties have been actually accused (All Reports, Local/International, example
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1) The Shahbag (pro-government) protest and counter protests are part of the same political turmoil in Bangladesh and cannot be separated superficially just to satisfy one side or the other
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The riot primarily was a protest against the government, not a religious conflict. When the police started civil killing, it raised religious conflict as a side effect. I think the the
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This article is a completely falsified and biased story of the actual events. The Jamaat and Shibir activists are responsible for countrywide mayhem. Just look at these references:
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as they were also reaction to the sentences and they also occured at the same time. These are interconnected incidents that have the same roots and they sould all be merged.
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The local media houses publishing news have been highly monitored by the government. So, please provide reference links of unbiased news from international media sources. --
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I do agree with you. We can list all the violence by Jamaat-e-Islami acitvists here and what were the consequences after police tried to defend the government properties.
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
545:). Hence, the article should be modified and the violence by Jamaat Shibir on the minorities, government offices, police posts, and common people should be included.
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1386:. It would give perspective and depth to the info presented in this article. If you do agree I would execute the merge later today. 09:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
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not biased - because Jamaat Shibir is the one who are creating violence, and the casualties are due to their clashes with the law enforcement forces.
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1541:, then there's no way it is going to get speedily deleted. And, if you want to get it deleted, please, use Knowledge (XXG) policies, not anyone's
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I have changed the title since the current title is misleading and very general. Please raise your concern regarding the title in this section.
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http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/2013/03/03/234-Bangladesh-FM-condemns-Jamaat-e-Islami-attacks-on-minority-Hindus-in-Bangladesh.html
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1196:, which is totally false. Police does not start any riot. I am requesting him/her not to bias this article by providing false information.--
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2) The protest and counter protests hinge around the same issues and context and any separation of them will be difficult and superficial
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persecution of Hindus and riots instigated by Islamic extremists are have other articles to be linked with this article and others.
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4. The 2013 protest started for the death sentence of some public figures. But the riot started after announcing one's sentence. --
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5) The pro-government (pro-Shahbag) editors are opening one article after another to achieve the aforementioned purpose. See also
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But will support a merger of 2013 Bangladesh riot to 2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence, which is already being discussed above.
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There are no counter protests to the Shahbag protest. Name one protest that specifically is protests against the Shahbag protest.
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1. The riot has started after announcement of the death sentence of a public figure, not directly related to attacking minority.
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Please stop claiming blogs and op-eds as "references". The writeup you link to is one Mahin Khan's opinion, not a fact. --
713:, because Bangladeshi Hindu minority is the main target of the attacks described in the article and in reliable sources. --
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/11-years-after-riots-a-cameo-from-gulberg-society/article4471703.ece
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5igO8eStVzdkrEb_5uMDpgiijDLIQ?docId=97935361c4fd4508a571780b03b5378b
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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1725:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for
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Decide what you want. A title change? A neutral article? Or a deletion? Looks like you are just venting here.
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/six-killed-in-fresh-bangladeshi-riots/article4471543.ece
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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is a easier to explain all of the conflicts and counter conflicts. Additionally, none of the wikipedia
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http://www.daily-sun.com/details_yes_09-11-2012_Jamaat-desperately-on-the-offensive_314_1_1_1_7.html
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and you are a new account who just happened by then? On a new article created a few hours ago? Read
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http://dawn.com/2013/02/28/twenty-one-killed-in-bangladesh-after-jamaat-leader-ordered-hanged/
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http://en.wikipedia.org/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)#cite_note-The_Economist-63
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I think they can be merged in that they were both in reaction to the trials and sentences of
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merged with this one, the attacks on the Hindu community was definitely part of the riots! --
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2. Protest in 2013 Bangladesh started from February 5, but the riot started from February 28.
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2. Primarily, it was a protest against the death sentence; became riot at clash with police.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)#cite_note-HRW_Retrial-66
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have reported that the police been firing on non-violent protesters since the ICT verdict.
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Expand the article should have more issues that were not covered in 2013. Suggested name:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)#cite_note-Wright-65
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I have added some new sections in the article for better arrangements. Thanks. .....
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http://en.wikipedia.org/International_Crimes_Tribunal_(Bangladesh)#cite_note-Adams-9)
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didn't send me(article creator) any notice about the title discussion at start. And,
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The local media houses publishing news have been highly monitored by the government
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http://www.niticentral.com/2013/03/03/hindus-under-attack-in-bangladesh-51684.html
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http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/03/01/bangladesh-end-violence-over-war-crimes-trials
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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
1652:. So, talk rationally and to the point. Don't complain like an adolescent boy.
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and they occured at the same time. Furthermore, I would say the same about the
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5. Shahabag Protest and 2013 Bangladesh riot is totally different Occurrence.
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http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2013/03/2013347575585654.html
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The inclusion of an independent article on Knowledge (XXG) is decided by its
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All the change I see as needed is changing the title from "riot" to "riots".
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10868607
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What should be the best title for this situation? The title proposed merge
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/bangladesh-soldiers-death-toll
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http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/03/02/minorities-resent-jamaat-attacks
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http://en.wikipedia.org/1971_Bangladesh_genocide#cite_note-USSD2005-06-31
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http://newagebd.com/detail.php?date=2012-11-14&nid=30049#.UPkaYfKTJbw
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It's not really as black and white as that...sources such as Al Jazeera
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In my opinion this article can be merged with the broad article titled
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Until some real issue emerges, this discussion needs to stay closed.
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Can we extend it with those violence occurred in the end of 2012?--
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should be merged with this one, or at least be linked in some way.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/1971_Bangladesh_genocide#cite_note-dawn-32
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=257274
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=259962
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=271244
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=270925
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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2013/03/2013334365986195.html
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Please, be factual and rational. This is an encyclopedia, not a
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doesn't need a separate article, hence it should be merged with
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is true in situation, because after and before ICT verdict only
1772:"At least 32 dead as Bangladesh Islamists demand blasphemy law"
1745:"At least 32 dead as Bangladesh Islamists demand blasphemy law"
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Can you lead us to the discussion where it is being "decided"?
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for a merger, since this one covers a broader range of topics.
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=44790
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=43709
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=45165
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redirected the article without any title discussion notice. --
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http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/28/world/asia/bangladesh-riots/
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http://www.thedailystar.net/beta/online/2013/03/04/24051.html
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And, when really was it "settled"? Who settled it, and how?
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
1537:. If it has happened and if it was mentioned as such by
1274:- Any reference supporting this ludicrous statement? --
1192:‎Rossi101 trying to present the whole circumstances as
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http://thenewnationbd.com/newsdetails.aspx?newsid=59383
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The neutrality of this article is seriously contested
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Should be deleted. This one is totally biased crap.--
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should be merged with the primary matter of article
140:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
871:I am redirecting the article to it's primary title
285:Extend, add an infobox and a map of New Eskaton to
999:3. The riot resulted attacks on minority groups.
908:I am participating in the discussion lately, as
691:Deadly riots follow Bangladesh death sentence
8:
1715:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting
1410:It is being decided in the original article
1130:2013 Bangladesh violence after ICT verdict:
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843:2013 Bangladesh violence after ICT verdict:
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1355:way too specific to be even considered.
1343:(the category already has 51 articles).
330:1. Protest and riot are not same things.
238:History of Bangladesh after independence
1481:This article should be speedily deleted
855:articles has been entitled in such way
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1124:I do agree that we need to merge both
154:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Bangladesh
41:on 3 March 2013 (UTC). The result of
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134:This article is within the scope of
1780:. Agence France-Presse. May 6, 2013
1337:2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence
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711:2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence
595:2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence
489:2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence
483:2013 Bangladesh Anti-Hindu violence
77:It is of interest to the following
1822:Mid-importance Bangladesh articles
1753:. Agence France-Presse. 6 May 2013
465:and I can show plenty of others.
261:back to FA as it was demoted (see
250:back to FA as it was demoted (see
191:WikiProject Bangladesh To-do list:
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820:I do not see any comment here by
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875:till the discussion finished. --
845:is not a proper title. Instead,
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1827:WikiProject Bangladesh articles
174:This article has been rated as
157:Template:WikiProject Bangladesh
37:This article was nominated for
709:Yes, I too support merging to
1:
1175:10:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
340:is very much associated with
148:and see a list of open tasks.
1803:00:55, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
1733:Reference named "Islamists":
620:Some more news continue....
231:Climate change in Bangladesh
1817:C-Class Bangladesh articles
1740:2013 Shapla Square protests
1335:There is nothing to merge.
733:I guess, the current title
413:I know, again read WP:MEAT
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1701:17:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
689:Just watch the CNN report
603:Bangladesh Jamaat-e-Islami
398:6 I am from 25 June 2011 .
282:Make a MRT line 3 article.
180:project's importance scale
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426:21:30, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
408:21:29, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
394:21:20, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
376:21:18, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
361:20:40, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
224:Bangladesh Liberation War
186:
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18:Talk:2013 Bangladesh riot
1723:2013 Bangladesh violence
1713:I check pages listed in
1708:2013 Bangladesh violence
1501:2013 Bangladesh protests
1417:2013 Bangladesh Protests
1382:which is different from
1380:2013 Bangladesh protests
601:attacked by so- called
348:is a countrywide matter.
338:2013 Bangladesh protests
317:2013 Bangladesh protests
233:, it needs a lot of work
1706:Orphaned references in
1405:) 15:51, 6 March 2013
1339:is part of articles on
1006:So I think the article
1456:Delwar Hossain Sayeedi
1290:Yes. Sure. Here is it
1163:2013 Bangladesh unrest
1010:should be merged with
137:WikiProject Bangladesh
67:This article is rated
1464:2013 Shahbag protests
1412:2012 Shahbag protests
1384:2013 Shahbag protests
1353:2013 Shahbag protests
1345:2013 Bangladesh riots
1341:Persecution of Hindus
863:is better title than
737:would be fine having
71:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1605:Watch) (References:
1600:Human Rights Watch:
1421:2013 Bangladesh riot
1150:Exactly my point! --
1056:2013 Bangladesh riot
1012:2013 Bangladesh riot
873:2013 Bangladesh riot
861:2013 Bangladesh riot
847:2013 Bangladesh riot
735:2013 Bangladesh riot
346:2013 Bangladesh riot
321:2013 Bangladesh riot
315:The mentioned pages
1719:orphaned references
1687:Adding new sections
1592:Human Rights Watch
275:Take a look at the
222:Add more images to
160:Bangladesh articles
1767:Diganta Television
1460:Abdul Quader Molla
605:party supporters.
560:Changing the title
310:Contested deletion
277:requested articles
73:content assessment
1407:
1393:comment added by
323:are not the same.
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701:Jayanta Nath
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79:WikiProjects
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1218:Pratanu.roy
1214:Police Riot
1194:Police Riot
1186:Police Riot
1138:Pratanu.roy
1076:Pratanu.roy
972:Pratanu.roy
953:Pratanu.roy
936:Pratanu.roy
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910:Pratanu.roy
894:Pratanu.roy
827:Pratanu.roy
715:VejvanÄŤickĂ˝
566:Pratanu.roy
547:Pratanu.roy
507:Pratanu.roy
467:Pratanu.roy
437:Bangladesh.
287:New Eskaton
240:, it needs
1811:Categories
1535:notability
1091:The title
344:, but the
263:discussion
252:discussion
248:Bangladesh
151:Bangladesh
142:Bangladesh
98:Bangladesh
1795:AnomieBOT
1347:is about
1267:Rossi101
1251:Reference
1070:Rossi101
887:Rossi101
236:Clean up
229:Clean up
47:Snow Keep
1403:contribs
1391:unsigned
1306:Rossi101
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1198:Freemesm
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581:Freemesm
521:Freemesm
493:utcursch
363:Rossi101
353:Rossi101
270:Bengalis
268:Improve
257:Improve
246:Improve
39:deletion
1693:Onimesh
1525:soapbox
1351:. And,
1188:Concern
1122:Support
1089:Support
383:WP:MEAT
342:Shahbag
205:history
178:on the
69:C-class
1784:19 May
1757:19 May
1671:Aditya
1634:Aditya
1609:&
1576:&
1551:Aditya
1441:Aditya
1369:Aditya
1153:Zayeem
1107:Zayeem
1030:Oppose
744:Zayeem
75:scale.
1765:From
1738:From
1315:Ragib
1276:Ragib
986:Merge
968:Title
449:Hasan
410:Msfz
215:purge
210:watch
1786:2013
1777:DAWN
1759:2013
1750:DAWN
1727:this
1697:talk
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1458:and
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1423:]. (
1399:talk
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1294:. --
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1128:and
1104:. --
1080:talk
1064:talk
1058:. --
1038:talk
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852:riot
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378:Msfz
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368:Msfz
357:talk
319:and
242:NPOV
200:edit
45:was
1419:or
415:FYI
336:3.
170:Mid
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