1185:. And yet the rule of thumb would be to follow what a preponderance of reliable sources call it. In English or Portuguese. Are the news sources using word O Globo or something similarly reliable? Yet I haven't seen the designation in English-language media, not that I have looked very hard, and not that the US news cycle doesn't have a really short attention span. Is Torres still in the US, and is he fighting extradition? If the answers are yes and yes, I think that hearing is likely to get covered. Maybe we can see what it gets called then. I will look into this a little later today. One thing English-language media
1744:. The sources provided in reply to my comment don't seem to be enough...none of the sources seems to directly name the attack "the Three Powers Plaza attack". We should be seeing more English and potentially non-English sources use the name "Three Powers Plaza attack" or "January 8", and not just in Europe or Brazil: US media, Indian sources like the Hindustan Times, Australian news, etc. I'm not saying that the move can't happen in the future if we all rally around that name the same way that January 6 came to be, but it's simply too early to tell what name it should be deemed by.
1151:). Is a matter of time to see if anyone else will be charged or even convicted by the same thing and considering the delicate nature of the event, I'm not sure if the Wiki (be English or Portuguese versions) should follow what the media is saying (I have seen the terms "terrorismo" or "tentativa de golpe" being used here in Brazil) or if is better to wait for the trials and convictions (specially if the investigations shows, without a doubt, that it had been planned by people in position of power among politicians and the armed forces).
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ultimately happen after this, and
Knowledge isn't the place to speculate about it (see WP:CRYSTALBALL). But even with what we already know, being that Lula is in power now, and Bolsonaro isn't, it already contrasts from the Reichstag. Hitler, at the time of the Reichstag fire, was Chancellor of the Reich. So I don't see how, after a further investigation, this could merit inclusion into this article's See Also section.
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1720:
its "Three Powers Plaza" attack, not "Three Powers attack", also, these three () mention that the attack happened in the three powers plaza, not only the congress, i know that most people arent familiar with the name, but we can just make the current article name redirect to the new one, Three Powers
812:
I just commented on this point in the "Different name" section. Bottom line, not enough use of the term in reliable sources yet. If that starts to change we can reconsider. I say this even though I myself used the term, and believe that that is what this was. But it isn't my opinion that counts here.
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Knowledge doesn't like to get ahead of the facts, and probably will consider that it's too soon until such time as there is a conviction. I was just trying to break up the logjam of ideas on the article title. So coming back to that, I like "attack" best of the other ideas, and there might even be a
1084:
I personally suspect it *was* a coup and it *was* planned, but my suspicions are not what counts here. Since I'm the one that raised this question of a coup d'état a few sections up, I want to emphasize that I do *not* think that we should be using the phrase just yet. I just think it's something to
661:
I am sure the copyright issues are getting worked out at
Wikimedia Commons if somebody is responding to these notices. I'm not. But the last I one I looked at was saying that TV Brasil's use policy was in fact essentially a Creative Commons license equivalent. But I'm not keeping track of the images
1309:
Mind you I agree that it still a little early to use the term. I wouldn't even be discussing it if it weren't that we still need a better article title. I hear you on headquarters. The problem I have with that is that it sounds like one building. I thought of "government buildings" but that doesn't
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should we make arrests its own section in aftermath? Because there have been a few high profile arrests such as
Anderson Torres (the former public security chief of Brasilia) and the former commander of the military police. Also the sheer number of arrests related to this (1500 at the time of this
1490:
I would agree with Snoopy here. The
Reichstag fire is still a case of "no one know who did it". Plus, we know what happened after the Reichstag fire: the Nazis took power. We also (sort of) know what happened after January 6: Trump and the rioters got investigated to death. We don't know what will
1767:
We could maybe hold out this for some time, until it starts to be used more widely by media outside of Brazil, but, as of right now, almost every single media in Brazil calls it "Invasão da Praça dos Três
Poderes" (Invasion of the Three Powers Plaza) ou "8 de Janeiro" (January 8), reason why the
1823:
Most readers will be more familiar with "Brazilian
Congress" than "Three Powers Plaza" as the location of the event, especially given media reporting of the incident in English language media. Additionally I think it makes more sense for the year to be present in the title, similar to other such
1787:
I do not like the
January 8 part of the name. People called the Capitol attack the January 6 capitol attack because that IS their common name. People aren't calling this the January 8 blank attack. Your argument of "we might as well change the capitol attack article to 2021 United States Capitol
764:
There are evidences, such as: 1. the invasion was facilitated by some police officers; 2. the army denied and stopped the police to dismantle the camp in the front of headquarters few days earlier; 3. there are suspicious movements ignoring threats in the day before the invasion; Anderson Torres
642:
I know that they can see it here, i just felt the need to comment, i know it is a bot from wikimedia commons, also, we did credit them i think, someone has contacted their representative to see if their images are licensed anyways, so we should hold from any decisions to delete or keep until the
1180:
That sounds a little like a single building. But it isn't all that different from my current proposal. I could support "2022 attack on the
Brazilian federal government." What's the purpose of "headquarters"? To make it clear that this is a physical attack maybe? Knowledge is very hesitant about
1802:
Its the common name here in Brazil, it may become so in other media in the future, but, as of right now, other RS aren't even talking about the attack, some even forgot about it (reason why this article lost activity), that's why the name is not being used (even though most newspapers here are
1089:
is probably keeping closer watch on this than I am, given my very rough grasp of
Portuguese, so if he says nobody's been charged with that crime yet, he is no doubt right about that, and yes, that would make this too soon, for sure, and it probably will be too soon even once somebody has been
1633:
By the way, i opened this as the last discussion showed a pretty much even split of supports and oppose, with most of those opposing suggesting the use of a
English name version, so, we can rename the page and make it so the other name proposals (like the current name, plus a few others like
785:
predicts the crime of coup d'état ("Attempting to depose, by means of violence or grave threat, the legitimately constituted government"). I'd say to wait and see if the people who took part/invested in the event will be charged for this crime. If yes, I would suggest to move the article to
225:
If you do Ctrl + F for "January 6" you won't see it but if you do Ctrl + F for "6 January" you will. "6 January", altho inconsistent with the article name for "January 6 United States Capitol attack" is internally consistent with the date scheme that this article employees..
1310:
make it clear that these are *the* buildings that are the seat of power, not just random archive buildings or warehouses for surplus military inventory or whatever. Maybe just [[2023 Attack on the Brazilian government"? Apart from that I am currently out of suggestions.
1121:"2023 attack on the Brazilian government" maybe? I don't think anyone has proposed that one yet. I am not going to get my adrenaline up over the article title in any event, but I agree that all three branches of the government were attacked, not just the Congress. HtH
1860:
January 8 2023, in line with the capitol attack article, if we are going to do the way you want, we might as well change the capitol attack article to 2021 United States Capitol attack, plus, three powers plaza is the place where the 3 attacked buildings are located.
1272:
Right, on O Globo I realize that. I was asking if the Brazilian news sources using "coup" are sources that are that good. The Guardian source I labelled "Never mind" above is a gol-star reliable source on en.wikipedia, and it uses the word in the headline.
1104:
consensus for it. Attack on what, is the question. I agree that Congress too is wrong, and also that nobody outside Brazil has ever heard of that plaza. I hadn't, and I did a lot of work on the article on the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff, and with
737:
Actually, no, it was not. A couple of hundred inbred buffalo-hat-wearing goofballs breaking into Congress is in no way related to a massive amount of support the opposition has here - this is a real insurrection/rebellion, with the possibility of
813:
My best current suggestion for the article name today is "2023 attack on the Brazilian government" since Congress is wrong (it was more than Congress) and I question whether anyone outside Brazil would recognize the name of the plaza.
699:
I don't think we actually know that yet. Crystal ball, as I said. Just something to keep in mind if we are still looking for consensus in a week or so, when I suspect they will be starting to charge someone with pretty much this.
1406:
By hundreds you mean over a thousand? plus the fact that trump knew that the people there were armed and heading for the capitol? yes, it was a coup attempt, even if they were all "stupid nutjobs" (which, well, they were).
341:, where we split off a long section of repetitive quotes expressing disapproval. I am here to tell you that this was very tedious to edit and update, and probably to read. However, I don't have a better suggestion
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Your proposal will be challenged very quickly as the failed proposals during the previous move to have Portuguese language in the title are working to rename this location to make a stronger case for take two.
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Ok this is ridiculous, Agencia Brasil says that anyone can use the files as long as they credit it, and its properly credited in wikimedia, can people stop marking every image they see about this as copyvio?
297:
I think we should split the reactions off into a separate article as its cumbersome and takes up a good portion of the article. The focus here should be about the event itself and not the reactions. -
360:– I don't see how this article needs more than just a summary of the most important reactions. The reactions that notable yet not relevant to the full picture should be split into their own article.
682:
Do most mainstream media and reliable sources describe this event as a coup attempt? If yes, I will add it to the appropriate list articles and templates. If not, then I will remove the category.
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attack" makes no sense because not only is it the common name but there was an entire move request that changed the article's name from the 2021 capitol attack to the january 6 capitol attack.
101:, maybe a page for Storming of Political Offices due to Perceived Electoral Fraud (or something less verbose)? I don't know it it warrants a direct link on the Jan 6th page. CyanCat8991
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1461:
I wouldnt really say that it is related, mainly because the reichstag fire may have been done by the nazis themselves, it also wasnt an protest/riot at the region, but an arson case.
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was an arson attack against the German parliament. Therefore, I consider it a related topic, considering that the invasion of the Brazilian Congress is considered by many an attack.
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My point is that most people will not know where Three Powers Plaza is. The Capitol attack should indeed probably have the year in it, but it does have the country. --
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making the split article because it's taking up a lot of space on the article and would benefit from being more in depth on another article. Would also help remove any
467:; not only do I personally support it, but it also looks to be a near-unanimous case of consensus after 30 days. I think we're ready to get to work on splitting this.
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1618:– the national congress wasnt the only building affected by the invasion, the supreme court building and the planalto palace were also invaded during the attack
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They are attacks commanded by different people but on See Also i think it could be added the January 6 United States Capitol attack wikipedia article about it
1238:, one of the oldest media group in Brazil (imagine something like BBC or CNN) and probably one of the more influential/powerful media group in Latin America.
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on Operation Car Wash and all of the many followup operations, so I am probably more familiar with Brazil than 90% of English-language Knowledge editors.
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Apparently, those involved in the attack used this phrase (and other code words) to refer to their plans on social media without arousing suspicion. See
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I support splitting the reactions into a new article. It has been done before on many other articles before because it got too long on the main article.
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Can you provide an RS which lists the attack as "the Three Powers attack"? Knowledge is intended to reflect society's wishes, not decide it for them.
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the Reichstag fire from the "See also" section, with the apparent explanation that it is unrelated. Maybe the heading is not self-evident but the
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my intention is to make it clear that those aren't any regular offices buildings, but the bases of the 3 branches of the Brazilian government.
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1842:. More obvious title. January 8 when? Where is Three Powers Plaza? And note that an RM for the renaming of the latter is also underway. --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
1721:
Plaza is more accurate, as, like i said, the attack was against 3 buildings there, not only the congress, the current name ommits that.
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by the way, I haven't marked any image as anything, and I don't think anyone else has either. This is a bot run from Wikimedia Commons.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/14/key-bolsonaro-ally-arrested-on-return-to-brazil-over-alleged-coup-attempt-anderson-torres
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1740:, as a COMMONNAME doesn't seem to have been established unanimously. It took a while for January 6 to become the COMMONNAME of the
1642:, etc) redirect to this page, as i find my proposal the most accurate one (reason provided above), and has a title similar to the
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There you go, I see you commented on the page. It may be as simple as needing to credit them, which it doesn't look like we did.
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this takes a really big chunk of the article, so it really should be split, with only the more important reactions shown here.
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is the plaza where the 3 buildings (National Congress, Supreme Federal Court and Planalto Palace) are located, that's why.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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i think, not "coup attempt", even if the mob did want a coup, it wasnt an organized one, so it wouldn't really classify.
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864:. Definitely deserves a mention. It’s similar to the way some people in the USA have recently been using the words “
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Actually, you're right, we do give credit. Anyway, it looks like yours answers might clear this up. Glad to see it.
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is worth reading in this regard. At the end, this has been very similar to the US Congress storming. --
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on, among other things, "violent abolition of the democratic rule of law" and "coup d'état" attempt (
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predicts the crime of coup d'état, but we have to wait and see if someone is charged for this crime.
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portuguese version of the article is named like that, but if everyone here wants to wait, so be it.
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The Capitol attack is already linked in the article, that's why it's not in the "See Also" section.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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a couple of hundred nutjobs acting rashly/stupidly/hopelessly at the Capitol building is no 'coup'
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The See also section is further not a place to list all tangentially related historical events.
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for the 2425121541541th time, it is already linked in the article, no need to add to see also.
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I tend to agree. But didn't I see that Anderson Torres was in the US? Was I wrong about that?
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I believe this should be named as 2023 Brazilian coup attempt, as it is very similar to the
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Many sources are saying that it relates to the January 6th United States Capital Attack.
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Maybe "2023 attack on the Brazilian Federal Government Headquarters" could work?
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They can't hear you when you post here. Click the link and go to the discussion
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
1998:"'They were in ecstasy': how Bolsonaro mob's orgy of violence rocked Brasília"
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The events have similar characteristics. However, they are not connected.
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I think that this can be related to January 6 United States Capitol attack
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Since you sent me some questions on the talk page, I'm replying there!
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Artworks damaged, destroyed or stolen in the 2023 Brasilia attacks
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Artworks damaged, destroyed or stolen in the 2023 Brasilia attacks
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Invasão de 8 de janeiro - visão ampla da rampa do Congresso.jpg
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1646:(invasion/attack with many similarities to this one here).
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Look at the first sentence of the Background section. ---
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Reactions to the 2023 invasion of the Brazilian Congress
1973:"How the situation in Brazil boiled over into violence"
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could fit then, anything but the current article name.
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travelled to the same city in Florida as Bolsonaro; --
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Note that Three Powers Plaza has now been renamed to
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however, I would like to mention the experience with
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post) is important enough to deserve a section imo.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
94:While the characterization is supported by some .3
1341:2023 Storming of the Brazilian government complex
840:I strongly suggest at least two more like this.
790:" (but this discussion is still in the future).
546:Invasão de 8 de janeiro - rampa do Congresso.jpg
541:Invasão de 8 de janeiro - estragos no Senado.jpg
994:Invasões na Esplanada dos Ministérios (DF).webm
999:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
1181:"terrorism" and probably also would be about
261:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
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508:(possible rename required for consistency?)
1640:2023 Storming of the Praça dos Três Poderes
1364:I'd propose "2023 Brazil's capital attack"
1561:The following is a closed discussion of a
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1803:already calling the event "January 8")
504:Page watchers may want to help improve
1644:January 6 United States Capitol attack
1135:I did some research and it seems that
1042:January 6 United States Capitol attack
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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1580:The result of the move request was:
1520:The name is not Three Powers Plaza.
252:The following discussion is closed.
1616:January 8 Three Powers Plaza attack
1211:- I see the answers are no and no.
18:Talk:2023 Brazilian Congress attack
183:2023 Brasilia Plaza/plaza storming
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1742:2021 United States Capitol attack
1024:2021 American coup d'état attempt
834:I'm just going to put this here:
2026:The discussion above is closed.
491:The discussion above is closed.
358:Support making a sum-style split
339:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine
29:
788:2023 Brazil coup d'état attempt
1612:2023 Brazilian Congress attack
1554:Requested move 3 February 2023
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1921:10:48, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
1606:02:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
942:thanks for the clarification
868:”, Big Igloo, Big Luau, etc.
269:after 30 days of discussion.
1996:Phillips, Tom (2023-01-09).
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1516:Rename building per WP:RS
1344:? "Attack" works, too.
1284:44, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
962:A good video timeline by
2028:Please do not modify it.
1568:Please do not modify it.
493:Please do not modify it.
255:Please do not modify it.
179:User:Tise exists (cool)
1909:Praça dos Três Poderes
1479:‡ El cid, el campeador
1040:The article's name is
383:on the main article.
42:of past discussions.
1891:2023 Brasilia Attack
1636:2023 Brasília Attack
918:According to Reuters
1141:Alexandre de Moraes
127:Roman Reigns Fanboy
1536:Three Powers Plaza
1005:Community Tech bot
662:or their licenses.
558:Community Tech bot
267:Consensus to split
192:Tise exists (cool)
1590:
1587:non-admin closure
1358:
643:answer is given.
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186:— Preceding
182:
181:What about,
177:
97:
78:
65:
43:
37:
1952:Le Monde.fr
1821:Weak oppose
1573:move review
1368:fgnievinski
1236:Grupo Globo
1234:is part of
1183:coup d'etat
684:StellarHalo
511:Thanks! ---
385:Paul Vaurie
362:DecafPotato
265:There is a
103:CyanCat8991
36:This is an
2014:2023-02-08
1982:2023-02-08
1958:2023-02-08
1935:References
1913:Necrothesp
1895:SnoopyBird
1877:Necrothesp
1863:SnoopyBird
1844:Necrothesp
1826:aismallard
1805:SnoopyBird
1770:SnoopyBird
1723:SnoopyBird
1680:SnoopyBird
1648:SnoopyBird
1620:SnoopyBird
1582:not moved.
1540:SnoopyBird
1463:SnoopyBird
1409:SnoopyBird
1209:Never mind
1046:SnoopyBird
890:Roboprince
738:"success."
719:NoonIcarus
645:SnoopyBird
574:SnoopyBird
450:SnoopyBird
228:TerraFrost
113:SnoopyBird
81:Goliv04053
2009:0261-3077
1447:Thinker78
922:Cullen328
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1824:events.
1755:userpage
1747:Invading
1708:userpage
1700:Invading
1602:contribs
1502:userpage
1494:Invading
1436:removing
1312:Elinruby
1275:Elinruby
1213:Elinruby
1195:Elinruby
1189:done, a
1123:Elinruby
1106:Mathglot
1090:charged.
944:Elinruby
905:Elinruby
866:Boogaloo
844:Elinruby
815:Elinruby
702:Elinruby
664:Elinruby
630:Elinruby
616:Elinruby
602:Elinruby
588:Elinruby
478:userpage
470:Invading
381:WP:UNDUE
343:Elinruby
280:userpage
272:Invading
200:contribs
188:unsigned
169:Talk:キュウ
98:outlets
1785:Comment
1750:Invader
1703:Invader
1695:Comment
1661:Comment
1497:Invader
1232:O Globo
1226:On the
883:Arrests
767:Ciao 90
715:WP:COUP
473:Invader
465:Support
446:Support
417:as per
415:Support
402:Cwater1
398:Support
377:Support
275:Invader
212:Cwater1
39:archive
1889:Maybe
1840:Oppose
1738:Oppose
1678:What?
1453:(talk)
1145:page 3
419:WEIGHT
165:KyuuA4
1911:. --
16:<
2006:ISSN
1917:talk
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1372:talk
1354:uest
1330:talk
1316:talk
1281:) 15
1279:talk
1244:talk
1217:talk
1199:talk
1187:have
1160:talk
1127:talk
1068:talk
1058:The
1050:talk
1031:talk
1009:talk
976:talk
948:talk
926:talk
909:talk
894:talk
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848:talk
819:talk
796:talk
781:The
771:talk
752:talk
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706:talk
688:talk
668:talk
649:talk
634:talk
620:talk
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578:talk
562:talk
521:Talk
482:talk
454:talk
435:uest
423:NPOV
421:and
406:talk
389:talk
366:talk
347:talk
322:Talk
303:talk
284:talk
232:talk
216:talk
196:talk
149:Talk
131:talk
117:talk
85:talk
1191:lot
1003:. —
2004:.
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50:.
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