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1413:. For a profession academic organization it is awkward for them to make a low-level mistake like this. We cannot use this kind of disinformation map as it is not only an insult on the ten lost lives in the storm (if the wind were developing that way there was no point professional experienced nomads couldn't handle it) but an insult on the sands as well (the Central gobi in Ejin Banner/Gansu doesn't have as much free sands to feed this. These mighty sands can only come from a free-dune deserts rather than gobis).
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even if we assume bad faith on
Sputnik I don't think it makes sense to assume Sputnik makes rumor on the Russian embassy, not to mention that whatever disinformation Sputnik might had before could it be as bad as the above NASA disinformation? I think it's better to add that source as we are only using the words of Russian embassy to say North Korea is also a part of the affected area. --
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RM notice at the top. There's unanimous agreement the original title was too narrow, and apparent agreement on the current title. The RM should be closed for the time being imo, but I'm not going to do that myself. Until someone comes along and actually disputes the title (and afaics, nobody disputes the title) I don't see an issue here.
732:, where few damage has been done. The current title is based on several western media holding Sinocentric viewpoints and does not respect those who passed away in the sandstorm enough. With referring to Mongolian and Chinese media we can get a more globalized view but right now the title should be changed. Nomads' lives matter. --
1247:, is only part of Ireland and Macedonia, the FYROM, is only part of Macedonia. However, in English, most people don't care anything outside Europe plus the five eyes and lacks a globalized world view for articles like this. One English candidate might be "2021 Gobi sandstorm" but that's also problematic, because
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The move is perfectly normal on current events, especially when there's an apparent consensus. Sticking a RM onto a brand new page where the creator hastily chose a title that was appropriate at time of creation and there's apparent agreement on a new name isn't useful and just means there's a sticky
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may effectively cover
Mongolia, China and Korea so is also an option (much better than "North China"), although a lot of people may forgot Mongolia to be an East Asian country - it's like if a typhoon hits both Guam and Taiwan we can call it an East Asian typhoon as both islands are technically part
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in discussions about the fate of drafts I've accepted. At the time of acceptance I went with the obvious title as presented to me. The actual eventual title is immaterial because redirects are created on move or can be created today from whichever title to whichever title. So the references are the
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According to
Sputnik, Russian embassy said that North Korea banned diplomats from entering Pyongyang that day due to the sandstorm. There seems to be an ongoing dispute between Englishpedia and Sputnik yet I forgot where to check the current policy of English Knowledge (XXG) (there was a page), but
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I also don't understand why people put the
Mongolian nomad lives in sideline, as if people in China and Korea eating some sands if more crucial than 10 lost lives? I'll reorganized this article in a sandstorm developement order before it get POV again. Based on the wind direction, the sandstrom has
1220:
Most people won't be sure about the exact boundary of the
Mongolian Plateau, but most knows "Mongolian" points to an area on the north of Beijing, south of Siberia and east of Central Asia - thus acquiring a more accurate idea of the major affected area of Mongolia, Inner Mongolia and adjacent area
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Cite 3 is the NPR source which doesn't say "Mongolian
Plateau". East Asia is recognisable to most people. "Mongolian Plateau" is not. It's probably the most technically accurate descriptor, but it's not recognisable (+ the sources focus on the effects and affected locations, not the origin much).
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it comes from the desert steppe in the
Mongolian Plateau. The two contradictory claim is against each other and at most one can be real. The latter is confirmed by international wind data (can be accessed from zoom.earth, etc.), and gave a lot of details how it was developed; while the former is
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in the same way. We are facing a field almost untouched by
English media - most of which cover only a part of this sandstorm (say, North China, South Korea, Mongolia, etc.) so unless we want to split this article into three (or more) there's no established usage to refer. By the way I said "East
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The title has been moved back to where it was when this request was begun. At least one editor has noted that "East Asia" is too broad a concept for the area covered by the sandstorm. That is precisely why these move requests, once opened, should stay open for at least the minimum time, so all
1107:" also includes southern part of P. R. China, Taiwan and Japan, but the sandstorm only affects Northern part of China, Mongolia and a small part of Korea. It's still only a small part of East Asia. Is there a better title so that readers won't be misled to feel the whole China have sandstorm?
728:– The sandstorm primarily hit the nomad area in the Mongolian Plateau (Mongolia and Inner Mongolia) where 10 people died in Mongolia and still 11 missing after more than one day, plus several cities completely shut down in Inner Mongolia. From northwest to southeast it eventually reach the
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led by overpastorialism in
Southeast Mongolia. All Chinese cities issued an orange alert either lies in the Plateau (Hohhot, for example) or adjacent to it (Beijing, Yulin, Yinchuan, Zhangjiakou/Halgan are all towns serving agriculture-nomad trades). The core of
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is my very first article I created on August 2019; albeit without submitting my draft for reviewing process). So I will rename it, but the problem is I do not know how to close this discussion so I will allow any of you to rename this article to
792:- Being the creator of this article, yes its true actually that it is not just China or Beijing that was just happened. To be honest, I'm not a professional article writer I just made my first article after a short reviewing process (actually
826:, and also moving, these should only happen after the formal seven days have elapsed. The close should be performed by anyone not involved. While I only reviewed the draft I am sufficiently involved to recuse myself from closing it.
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confirmed by no data and provides no detail. Are we going to trust one with no detail confirmed by nobody instead of one with all detail confirmed by all data and call any supporter of the latter "original research"? --
1051:, As it says in the banner on the top of the article, please do not move the article until the discussion is closed. I can't be bothered to revert your move, performed while the discussion was one a very few hours old.
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Semi bold move, but I've moved it to that title since to move to a broader title seems to be agreed upon, with 3 editors supporting the above title, and it doesn't make sense to stick with a title nobody wants.
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thing. What you have done might even be correct, but there is insufficient consensus for it and it was never urgent in the first place. You coudl simply have used the title you chose as a redirect here.
1484:. Unless there's some kind of source disputing it as problematic, or some correction is issued saying there's a problem, I don't really think it can be discounted on the basis of original research.
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There is nothing urgent about this, nothing is ever that urgent on
Knowledge (XXG). Let it run, take more opinions, improve the article and references, and watch the discussion with interest.
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which effectively covers both Mongolias, Beijing, Yinchuan, etc. but I doubt whether our readers have ideas where Inner Asia is - Mongolian Plateau, a.k.a. is more geographically relevant.
1255:" the English concept of "Gobi Desert" doesn't exist - gobi can either refer to a specific kinds of desert with few sands or as a proper noun refer to a much narrower geographic area. --
1188:
Asia" is definitely better than "North China" before and I personally have no problem with your provisional move of this article (except that an adjective form "Asian" is preferred). --
89:. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
1251:, as a Mongolian word, is used by few Mongols (for example people in Ulaanbaatar who are far away from the desert) to refer to deserts in general, while Mongols living close to the "
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Of course the satellite image was real (I never said it wasn't). The problematic one is the arrow. NASA claimed it "appears to originate from the Taklamakan Desert", while Xinhua
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Saying that the sandstorm occurred in E Asia doesn't say/imply that it affected that whole region. The current name incorrectly portrays it as having only affected N China.
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editors who want to can either support or oppose the request. Under such controversy as noted above, this request should stay open for at least seven days.
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and Korea doesn't suffer as much as those cities, except that they also eat some sands and perhaps getting better soil. A relevant topic might be
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There's not much to say, the event affected more than just North China or the Mongolian Plateau. I think a speedy move would be appropriate.
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P.S. To be honest it's much easier to name it in Chinese, as everyone is clear that Mongolia, the state, is only part of Mongolia, just like
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to pass through North Korea to reach South Korea, but before we have sources I have no problem leaving North Korea blank for now or not. --
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Had the IP user not put the requested move process into motion I would not be commenting upon your move, but they did. It is not a
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Ok. So we wait for until a week, let them speak about more opinions, statements, and requests... (Sorry i m not a professional)
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Cite 3 has been changed later to cite 4 when a new cite 2 inserted. It's here: finance.eastmoney.com/a/202103161845756827.html
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NASA has issued no corrections still and states the image is acquired from their satellite. The same map is used by other
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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key. I would expect more comprehensive referencing over the next short period together with some development the article
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As the reviewer who accepted the draft I support whichever title is supported by references. I also tend to remain
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Move to 2021 China and Mongolia sandstorm, because it's not limited to N China, nor to the Mongolian Plateau.
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867:, All folk here are volunteers, my friend. We wait for the end of the period, and consensus will prevail.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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because it contains very bad disinformation. The arrow marked were basically perpendicular to the
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and related subjects on Knowledge (XXG). To participate, help improve this article or visit the
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Please feel free to readd it if correct annotations are added and misinformation is removed. --
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And we shouldn't stick with a title nobody wants for the sake of process, either.
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As you can see, below, it is already getting complex with suggested new titles.
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The result of the move request was: Consensus for "2021 East Asia sandstorm"
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Well, NASA seems like an RS to me. I guess you can ask at
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correct sandstorm develop direction and the wind direction
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without necessity of point out where Inner Mongolia is. --
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For your first point, Mongolian Plateau is per source
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Mongolian Plateau isn't used by any sources and fails
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Stub-Class China-related articles of Low-importance
1526:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones
1078:We don't run processes for the sake of processes.
99:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Articles for creation
750:it's not just North China where this happened.
1407:File:East Asia sandstorm NASA (annotated).jpg
801:and then this discussion is over after that.
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1183:. For your second point "East Asia" fails
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1567:end date. when will this storm ends?
1181:2021_North_China_sandstorm#cite_note-3
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1596:AfC submissions by date/15 March 2021
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943:It also seems to be in S Korea now:
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268:This article is supported by
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129:on 15 March 2021 by reviewer
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580:
579:
577:Low‑importance
571:
559:
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555:
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551:Low-importance
541:
531:
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523:Low-importance
519:
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494:
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439:
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1185:WP:COMMONNAME
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1160:
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1128:
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1123:
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607:
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581:
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569:
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552:
549:(assessed as
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997:
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948:
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823:
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757:
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522:
476:Project Talk
454:project page
447:
441:
370:
326:
320:
269:
247:
207:
201:China portal
137:
105:AfC articles
91:project page
84:
40:WikiProjects
1548:North Korea
1313:Jim Michael
1253:Gobi Desert
976:Jim Michael
970:That makes
941:Jim Michael
924:Jim Michael
794:Polar Storm
681:move review
1585:Categories
1140:Inner Asia
775:Joseph2302
481:Assessment
337:discussion
126:this draft
30:Stub-class
1144:East Asia
1105:East Asia
1366:Vanilla
1280:Comment.
869:WP:ANRFC
848:Timtrent
141:contribs
131:Timtrent
1371:Wizard
1110:Sun8908
1101:Comment
903:neutral
899:Comment
748:Support
643:on the
611:Mongols
574:Mongols
525:on the
498:Weather
486:A-Class
449:weather
398:Weather
373:on the
250:on the
169:History
1507:claims
1478:WP:RSP
1439:desert
1067:Faddle
1062:Fiddle
1056:WP:IAR
998:Joseph
991:using
949:Joseph
914:Faddle
909:Fiddle
882:Faddle
877:Fiddle
839:Faddle
834:Fiddle
788:, and
785:Faddle
780:Fiddle
753:Joseph
708:buidhe
602:Mongol
491:Alerts
36:scale.
1038:::::(
1008:talk)
959:talk)
763:talk)
346:Korea
328:Korea
299:Korea
223:China
214:China
164:China
1573:talk
1559:talk
1534:talk
1516:talk
1490:talk
1467:talk
1452:talk
1427:gobi
1317:talk
1261:talk
1249:gobi
1227:talk
1209:talk
1194:talk
1171:talk
1153:talk
1116:Talk
1086:talk
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1025:talk
1003:2302
980:talk
954:2302
928:talk
856:talk
807:talk
773:per
758:2302
738:talk
135:talk
1341:ed.
1295:ed.
1103:- "
635:Low
517:Low
365:Low
242:Low
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1376:đź’™
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