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Talk:Caroline Harrison/GA1

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section) on p 156) "She went through White House closets, attic, and basement to uncover the cast off chinaware of past presidential administrations. She researched them and identified the various First Ladies who used them…" (Hendricks p 190) "Caroline had the entire contents of the White House inventoried…anxious that pieces which have historic value or connection with presidential families of the past shall be preserved". (Scherber, who also specifically mentions hiring a curator to preserve the art.) Which to me indicates the inventory was very in-depth. Won't impact approval of the GA if you don't want to add more.
1248:. Foster points out that the kitchens were totally renovated, having been neglected for forty years. Schneider p 151 says they replaced the carpets, drapes, and reupholstered, which is confirmed by the newspaper article. (Note, I think the article would benefit from "beefing up" this section a bit. It isn't required for a GA, but if you wanted to nominate it for FA, I would expect it to be there since it is one of her major accomplishments as first lady.) 1876: 1860: 1837: 1822: 1795: 1775: 1752: 1741: 1720: 1701: 1686: 1671: 1644: 1609: 644:, probably needs clarification. Longo p 96 says Benjamin had to complete a 2-year apprenticeship. Hendricks says he finished that in 1854 (p 187) and then they moved to Indianapolis. Schneider confirms (p 148) that he was admitted to the bar in 1854 and then they moved to Indianapolis. (Year is imperative as article says house burned the "same year" but no year is ever mentioned in the paragraph.) 1888: 1870: 1307: 597: 419: 1882: 42: 1553: 1487: 1470: 1420: 1381: 1360: 1283: 1254: 1216: 1137: 1104: 1073: 1029: 990: 973: 872: 855: 834: 814: 793: 771: 753: 698: 668: 650: 558: 540: 508: 409: 370: 339: 319: 299: 279: 258: 241: 1508: 1186: 890: 463: 191: 1239:
I don't really get a sense from reading the description in the article of how extensive the renovation was. Hendricks p 190 says "She was the first First Lady to refurbish the White House from cellar to attic" The newspaper article above gives details on the stylistic changes she made, as do both the
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Won't impact the approval of the GA, but I don't really see that there is a discrepancy. Back before dirt when I was in uni, I was taught that when current sources contradict sources created at the time on details, the historic sources are used because of the possibility of misinterpretation by later
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It's not the validity of the reference that is the problem, but inconsistency in the citation. Each section of an ISBN number means something, i.e. language, publisher, book title, etc. Some you have cited with the correct sectioning and others as an unbroken string of numbers. There may be a gadget
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Both Watson (p 152) and Hendricks (p 188), state that Caroline returned to Ohio during her first pregnancy. Hendricks says the fire came after Russell's birth, but Moore says the fire happened first (p 8) and because of her need for medical care (confirmed by Watson p 152) she returned to Oxford to
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Hendricks p 186 confirms her legacy for renovations, noting that hers was the first major renovation and that she established separate offices and residential quarters, modernizing the building. Watkins p 156 says hers was "one of the most comprehensive and important restorations of the building".
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I think it would be more logical to start the section with why. One is five sentences in to the section before even arriving at the rodent infestation. Foster says the house was infested with termites and rats and had "serious structural damage" because of rot. Watson (p 154 ) says not only was it
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says women's education was limited in the first half of the 19th century. You should add a citation either to the source I found, or another, and possibly link to ]. Schneider p. 148 confirms both schools were founded by her father (but Moore says p. 4 that he was invited by the founders to become
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It's better. What I see is "inventory of the furniture at the executive mansion, complete with a history of each piece" (Schneider 151) "She conducted the inventory of every room and had many historic objects preserved" (Watson 154; he also lists that as important to her legacy (his title of the
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Among her family, she was known as "Carrie". Her father ensured she received a quality education in contrast to the minimal education that women typically received at the time. She attended two schools that had been founded by her father: a girls' school in Cincinnati and then the Oxford Female
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Caroline continued her education after the war, taking literature and art classes. Her pursuit of literature lead her to establish a literary club in the community to discuss the subject, while her pursuit of art became such that she began featuring her work in art exhibitions. She also took a
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If they delayed marriage to finish their studies, seems weird there is no mention of when that was done. Hendricks p 187 says Benjamin finished in 1852 and she graduated in 1853, but Moore says her diploma was dated 22 June 1852 (p 4) and his graduation occurred on 24 June 1852. (p 5)
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Last sentence, "Other organizations", you have already mentioned the orphans' asylum, so it should be removed, but the source also shows Indianapolis Benevolent Society, Ladies Patriotic Association, and the Ladies Sanitary Committee (in addition to the Home for Friendless Women).
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Again, won't impact GA being approved but 1) it will give Crockett a link to another article when an article about her is written and 2) since she was the principal (in that time that meant head teacher) at OFI under Caroline's dad she probably did know her well. If I can find the
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is not supported by the citation. Source does call her Carrie (p 187) but doesn't indicate if that was in wide use or limited to family. It does confirm her father insisted on her being educated. (also p 187) Foster confirms that was within the family, need to add citation.
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Again, your call and won't effect whether it is approved as a GA, but burying women's experiences and historical limitations is skewing their stories. If you take it to FA, I would expect a the discussion of how unique it was for her to be educated to be part of the
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More to follow, but it's a start. It is obvious from the history that when you started it was in definite need of attention and hardly had any citations. It isn't easy to rework an article in that shape and I appreciate your hard work to improve the article.
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scholars. In this case, the newspaper article is backed up by two RS. The only way that Scherber could arrive at 60K from what I see was to use the annual appropriation for upkeep of approximately 10K (it varied, but was about that amount, for example it was
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infested with pests but the structure and furnishings were all damaged or completely ruined and Schneider p 151 says Caroline thought the condition so bad it was likely to collapse. Scherber says the carpets were threadbare and the furnishings were shabby.
534:, which should be added, but mentions nothing about the secrecy of their relationship. That appears to be confirmed by Longo p 96, but he mentions nothing about sin or rides. Schneider confirms sin, buggy and sleigh rides on p 148. Fix citations please. 501:
Might be good to mention that her father was dismissed from Oxford for his anti-slavery views in 1845 and the family moved to Cincinnati,(Moore, p 2) until 1849, when they moved back to Oxford (Moore, p 4) otherwise it appears she went there on her own.
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Throughout the article, please cite specific page numbers for all book information, so that readers don't have to search the entire source. I've added {{rp|148}} for the first citation, but each multi-page book/article needs that template added.
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Schneider p. 149 says during the war she became a leader with the Patriotic and Sanitary groups which worked to provide care for the wounded and Watson p. 153 says mending uniforms, and gathering food, clothing, and supplies for the soldiers.
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Watson also confirms on 155 that her plans formed the foundation for what eventually became the East and West wings. Both Watkins p 156 and Hendricks p186 confirm the importance of her inventory and preservation of White House artifacts.
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Schneider p 151 says "they put in bathrooms" nothing about additional ones, nor anything about a conservatory; however, Foster notes there was only one bathroom, and a renovation of the conservatory. Please add citation to Foster.
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First sentence is a fairly close paraphrase, perhaps flip her mother and father in the sentence so you can omit "his wife", which makes her seem not a person in her own right. Mary was apparently also a teacher, which seems worth
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Your call about putting it in the body, but if you don't you have to cite the date in the lede. My personal preference, which has nothing to do with anything is to put it in the body and not have citations in the
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I added the city, but I feel that information about how she met a relatively minor figure in her life may be excessively detailed. I did, however, add information from that page about her experience there.
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Schneider p 150 says she was seriously ill in 1886. Do we know from what? Hendricks p. 188 said she had pneumonia, but gives no dates, and also that her hand was crushed by a carriage door but not when.
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That's it from me. Very much enjoyed learning about her and I applaud your efforts to improve the article. Please ping me when you are ready for me to review the answers, as I tend to get really busy.
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Please insert alt text for each image. Not the same as a caption. It should be a description of the image for those who are unable to see it. I've added alt text for the infobox image as an example.
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Johns Hopkins, per Longo page 98 the first one in the “nation”, i.e. it wasn’t the first to accept women globally, but the first one in the US. Please clarify that in the article.
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I noted in her father's article it said he was an abolitionist. In that regard, I discovered that both parents were part of the Underground Railroad, which seems worth mentioning.
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I formatted the ISBNs and added the date of birth to the body, which I think covers the essentials. I also added the corrected dollar amount with an associated inflation value.
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that makes them formatted consistently, but I don't know of one and am not very technical. I just use that tool, so I don't have to manually look up the publishing codes, etc.
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cited to Scherber, I think you need to add that she inventoried the contents of each room in the White House, cataloging art, decorations, and furnishings and recording their
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Great. Thank you so much for working on her. Congrats on the GA. It'll take me a bit to do all the approval stuff, because wp.technology is hard for me, but I'm on it.
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Thank you for the thorough review! I've looked at each of your notes and made the applicable changes where I could. I've replied to a few of them with notes of my own.
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Hendricks p 190 says Congress appropriated $ 35,000. That's a big discrepancy with Scherber’s $ 60,000. I tried to find the actual appropriation bill, but had no luck.
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It's difficult to place these without further sources, which is why it's currently vague in the article. Schneider is the most detailed information I've found on this.
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for posterity.(Henderson p 190)(Schneider p 151) That seems like a massive undertaking and important to the history of the country and her tenure in the White House.
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I see that Schneider p. 150 talks about him going into politics, but not that she became an advisor to him. Watson p 154 confirms that, so you need to add a citation.
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Might also add context to insert that her great-grandfather founded the first Presbyterian Church in the US and established the college which would become Princeton.
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Why is link to Ref #3 missing? You have given other links for Google books, so omission of this one seems odd and forces a reader to go hunting. Please insert link.
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As the lede/info box are summaries, they repeat only information actually already cited in the article. I do not see her birth date given in the text. Please add.
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For now I've removed any mention of the actual dollar amount. I suspect that we're not going to find a single definite answer if there are conflicting sources.
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Thank you for your thorough replies. We're almost there, just a few minor things and possibly some discussion. It has been a pleasure working with you.
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Schneider p 151 confirms the Christmas tree, but mentions nothing about orchids. Hendricks p 191 confirms introduction of orchids. Please add citation.
585:(also known as Bethania Crockett Bishop), who formerly founded a girls' school in Oxford and was a principal at the Oxford Female Institute?(Moore p 5), 919:
It is no wonder she wanted to renovate the White House in its state. I imagine it would have been a major health concern for her. Thanks for checking.
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It is believed that she died as a result of an illness, such as typhoid fever or influenza, affecting her while she suffered from tuberculosis.
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This section is all done except for citing the birth date somewhere in the article, unless you choose to respond to a couple of my queries.
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Not sure if you have the gadget installed that verifies duplicate links, but I get hits on White House and Frances Cleveland. Please fix.
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Hendricks p 192, says death was "attributed to tuberculosis" and complications of "typhoid and/or influenza", not the other way around.
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After their marriage, they stayed at the Harrison family home in North Bend, Ohio until Benjamin began a legal career in Indianapolis
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Benjamin continued to pursue politics after the war, and he would regularly consult Caroline for her opinions on political matters.
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I addressed the issue by removing the reference to women's versus men's education, letting her education stand in its own right.
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I'm not terribly familiar with ISBNs. Is there something specific I need to do for it to be considered a valid reference?
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I would probably add something here about the house that they built and she supervised between 1874 and 1875, because
1131:(Washington DC: White House Historical Association, 2005) at page 153, but I cannot find an accessible copy of that. 515:
I restructured the first two paragraphs of this section a little bit so their moves were presented chronologically.
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for exterior painting in 1890 and 11K in 1891) over their tenure. So 10K x 4 + 24,000 = 64,000, i.e. +/- 60K.
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I think you should probably re-arrange the paragraphs here. After explaining about the groups, I would move
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I don’t see the bit about the architectural plans in Scofield, but it is confirmed in Schneider p 151
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Perhaps it is worth mentioning that the school she taught at was in Carrollton, Kentucky and run by
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perhaps “the Impromptu Club, to read and discuss literature” (Hendricks p 188)( Schneider p. 150)
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Both her daughter and her daughter-in-law helped with the responsibilities of the first lady.
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Perhaps add a citation to confirm he was elected to the Senate in 1880? (Hendricks, p 188)
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next and then move his continuing in politics to a new ¶. Note, she was “led” not “lead”.
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Perhaps mention the architect Frederick D. Owen, and redlink, as he appears to be notable.
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source (p. 265) says it gave her experience she later used in renovating the White House.
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I think you do not mean “exasperated”, irritated, but rather “exacerbated” to make worse.
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tool is helpful, although you may have to convert to 10 and then back to 13.
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is supported by Scofield, but it is in Schneider p.151. Correct citation.
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about Crockett, I may write it myself, but so far no luck in finding them.
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president, so maybe he was the founding president and not a founder?).
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Perhaps insert ({{Inflation|US|35,000|1890|2021|fmt=eq|cursign=$ }})
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Described the fire as happening in the same year as Russell's birth.
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Do we know the name of the girls' school he founded in Cincinnati?
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I added a mention, but I think another source might be necessary.
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position on the board of lady managers of the Garfield Hospital.
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and switched all reference links to archive.org when applicable
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Fix title in Schneider. Ref says Carline, rather than Caroline.
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Thanks for checking. I checked too, but couldn't find anything.
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I'll look at this one. Looking forward to learning about her.
1127:(p 9) says there is a discussion of it in William Seale's 330:
Ref #2 is paywalled. Perhaps change link to open access
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Official portrait, by whom and when was it painted?
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1855:Pass/Fail 1747:(focused) 1566:Checklist 395:Institute 377:as above 144:Reviewer: 71:Templates 62:Reviewing 27:GA Review 1512:Not done 1190:Not done 894:Not done 467:Not done 448:article. 195:Not done 157:contribs 76:Criteria 1850:Overall 1709:copyvio 1633:fiction 272:pp 1, 4 127:history 108:history 94:Article 1964:SusunW 1934:SusunW 1913:SusunW 1899:SusunW 1805:images 1784:stable 1782:It is 1764:policy 1727:It is 1651:It is 1635:, and 1625:layout 1595:It is 1576:review 1446:SusunW 1408:Legacy 1395:SusunW 1294:After 1004:SusunW 944:SusunW 929:SusunW 728:SusunW 713:SusunW 167:SusunW 147:SusunW 1637:lists 1579:(see 627:books 312:p 610 292:p 159 225:lede. 136:Watch 16:< 1968:talk 1952:talk 1938:talk 1921:talk 1903:talk 1711:and 1655:and 1621:lead 1619:for 1585:here 1581:here 1557:Done 1521:talk 1500:This 1491:Done 1474:Done 1450:talk 1433:talk 1424:Done 1399:talk 1385:Done 1364:Done 1319:talk 1287:Done 1267:talk 1258:Done 1242:this 1229:talk 1220:Done 1199:talk 1150:talk 1141:Done 1117:This 1108:Done 1077:Done 1042:talk 1033:Done 1008:talk 994:Done 977:Done 948:talk 933:talk 903:talk 876:Done 859:Done 847:this 838:Done 818:Done 797:Done 775:Done 757:Done 732:talk 717:talk 702:Done 681:talk 672:Done 654:Done 610:talk 591:p 46 587:p 17 571:talk 562:Done 544:Done 521:talk 512:Done 476:talk 431:talk 416:and 413:Done 383:talk 374:Done 352:talk 343:Done 323:Done 303:Done 283:Done 262:Done 245:Done 208:talk 171:talk 151:talk 123:edit 100:edit 1617:MoS 1169:13K 1970:) 1954:) 1940:) 1923:) 1905:) 1885:· 1879:· 1873:· 1857:: 1834:: 1826:b 1819:: 1811:a 1792:: 1786:. 1772:: 1766:. 1749:: 1745:b 1738:: 1734:a 1731:. 1717:: 1705:d 1698:: 1694:OR 1690:c 1683:: 1675:b 1668:: 1664:a 1661:. 1641:: 1631:, 1627:, 1623:, 1613:b 1606:: 1602:a 1599:. 1574:GA 1523:) 1452:) 1435:) 1401:) 1321:) 1269:) 1231:) 1201:) 1152:) 1044:) 1010:) 950:) 935:) 905:) 734:) 719:) 683:) 612:) 573:) 523:) 478:) 433:) 385:) 354:) 210:) 173:) 159:) 125:| 106:| 102:| 1966:( 1950:( 1936:( 1919:( 1901:( 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Index

Talk:Caroline Harrison
Copyvio detector
Authorship
External links
Templates
Criteria
Instructions
Article
edit
visual edit
history
Article talk
edit
history
Watch
SusunW
talk
contribs
13:25, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
SusunW
talk
13:25, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
MOS:LEADNOTUNIQUE
Thebiguglyalien
talk
01:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
pp 1, 4
p 159
p 610

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