Talk:Chinese guardian lions

1104:)" was left by me earlier when i was not signed in, on present visit I notice that all the above buddhist and India connection to imperial lions has been censored and edited out of the article, this connection has to be reinserted and editors need to research this and provide authoritative sources for the same: In India Statues of stone Lions were commonly used outside royal palace entrances, temple entrances and entrances to buddhist monasteries from ancient times; when buddhist monks travelled to and from india back to China they tried to introduce the culture of stone lion statues guarding entrances in China but as local sculptors in China had never seen a Lion before hence they used local dogs as references to make stone lions of China in those days. Cultural depictions of Lions in China are directly related to buddhist monks who brought it from India, in India the the traditional name for Lion in 1224:"Not all lions used as symbols in China were guardian lions. Straight-haired standing lions carved on panels can be seen at the Siling Tomb of the Ming emperor Chongzhen, and the males and the females have prominent moustaches! Similar straight-haired lions can be seen on the bases of steles at Kong Miao, and at Dong Yue Miao. There are also straight-haired lions on the panels of the main gate of the tomb of the eunuch Tian Yi, as well as on steles devoted to him. None of these lions have curly hair, have a dog-collar or bauble, or hold a ball or a cub under their paw. These straight-haired lions are real lions as perceived by the Chinese, and are symbols of courage and power. They are not connected to Buddha in any way. " 1883:

believed that the Chow Chow breed of Chinese dogs is one of the native dogs used as the original model for the creation of Chinese guardian lions in ancient China when no one had ever seen a real Asiatic lion before which were however quite common in neighboring India") it is imperative that you cite it with something substantial such as an academic paper to supports the position. As well, it is very bad form to create your content through your own assumption and only then try to find references that agree with your position to support the content (example: "PLEASE HELP FIND REFERENCES TO BETTER THE ARTICLE").

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descriptions. It was also during this time that Buddhism and its symbols (along with the lion) entered into China, likely reinforcing the significance of the animal. Furthermore, it is unclear if the Chinese placed lions in front of buildings due to the Indian temples, but the fact remains that almost all the ancient Central Asian kingdoms and empires used lions in similar manners. It is inaccurate to state that the guardian lions were learned from India, since it may have been natively invented or learned from any of the Parthia, Sogdiana, Samarkand, or Yuezhi cultures.

1752:", they are just closely related actual living Dog Breeds from ancient China on whom the ancient Chinese Sculptures of that time had based the Lion statues on, as no one in China had ever seen a real lion before in those times. Hence as the ICON of "Chinese guardian lions" were created by sculptures in ancient China, these ancient Chinese Dog breeds in return came to resemble them closely hence these live dog breeds are known as "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs" as they resembel Chinese guardian lions as sculptures based the lion statues on dog models. 1072:", they are just closely related actual living Dog Breeds from ancient China on whom the ancient Chinese Sculptures of that time had based the Lion statues on, as no one in China had ever seen a real lion before in those times. Hence as the ICON of "Chinese guardian lions" were created by sculptures in ancient China, these ancient Chinese Dog breeds in return came to resemble them closely hence these live dog breeds are known as "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs" as they resembel Chinese guardian lions as sculptures based the lion statues on dog models. 271: 1736:

nor any sculptor in whole of China had ever seen a real lion before as they did not occur at all in China, Chinese sculptures modeled their own Chinese lion statues after the stories that came from India with traveling monks using Chinese Dogs as a model. But the resulting statues crafted by sculptures in ancient China took the shape of a Lion which was quite different from a real lion, sort of a lion-dog hybrid as Chinese sculptures used local dogs as models, never the less these statues became an Icon and came to be called as

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71: 53: 261: 240: 172: 151: 22: 431: 413: 441: 81: 345: 1852:. Hearing the stories carried there by Buddhist monks traveling from India the Chinese sculptors modeled statues of Fu or Foo lions, the lions of Buddha after these native dogs as they had never seen a real lion before and created an icon of an animal never before seen in China, the Chinese guardian lions which in turn came to resemble dogs. Thus 1188:. Hearing the stories carried there by Buddhist monks traveling from India the Chinese sculptors modeled statues of Fu or Foo lions, the lions of Buddha after these native dogs as they had never seen a real lion before and created an icon of an animal never before seen in China, the Chinese guardian lions which in turn came to resemble dogs. Thus 363: 791:"Stone lion" and "guardian lion" are clearly different concepts: one is a subset of another. If you want to focus only on stone lions, that's fine - cut out all the stuff about bronze lions and remove the pics with bronze lions, and dump that in a separate article called "Chinese lion totem" or something. As the article stands, it 1741:

and "LIONS of Buddha" to "DOGS of Buddha", from "Stone LIONS" to "Stone DOGS" in the article on Chinese guardian lions. Because of this misinformation contained in this often vandalized article, several websites around the world-wide-web are calling these lions by the name of Foo or Fu Dogs it seems or stone dogs etc..

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the sentence claiming that "Foo Lion" is the common term in most Western languages (I assume this originally said "Dog,") -- the Knowledge entry on this in most of the other languages refers to these as "Dogs" (Perros de Fu, Lejonhund, Cans de Fu, etc.), and the "Foo Dog" disambiguation page says this as well.

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There is no doubt that Lions are not native to Ancient China, but live and pelt specimens of lions have been introduced to China as rare imperial gifts during the Han dynasty from Central Asia and Persia. Due to their rarity and significance, their figures and likenesses have been recorded in textual

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were common in India then, which at that time no one had ever seen in ancient China of those days) and in front of palaces of kings in India, the people of China where Buddhism was spread by traveling monks from India wanted to make statues of those lions for similar purposes in China but no body and

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article page is getting vandalized regularly over the last many months by people spreading false information about them and insisting on calling "Lions" by the name of "DOG" they replace the word "Lion" in the article to "DOG", Chinese guardian lions are statues of "LIONS" (Not DOGS and Nor LION DOGS

1252:) with Chinese depictions of the lion. It seems quite plausible to me that classical Indian depictions of the lion were copied inaccurately in earlier times in China, and these images gradually evolved to become the more familiar shapes seen in China today. In any case, reliable sources are needed. -- 1055:

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Making and shipping of these stone lions is a big industry in China as Chinese houses, buildings, restaurants etc. around the world like to install these stone lions in front of their entrances. It seems these "stone lions" are being called and misrepresented as "stone dogs" by marketers in the west

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Neo jay commented that the Chinese wikipedia article is "石狮子". Not to disparage the quality of the Chinese article too much, its subject does not correlate well with the subject of this article. This article is about guardian lions (the form or motif), not about its particular manifestation in stone

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still considered guardian spirits etc. in modern China of today, these statues are representations of Lions and very different from dogs. These statues are called Lions and are not called Dogs; but various wikipedia editors are repeatedly changing the text from "Foo or Fu LIONS" to "Foo or Fu DOGS"

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I've re-inserted two references to the term "Foo Dogs," since that's what these are commonly known as in the West (Not "Foo Lions" as someone seems to have changed it to). Acknowledged, it's obviously incorrect, but it should be noted that this incorrect name is still common -- in particular, note

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Why can "imperial" lions refer to lions in non-imperial lions? I really have no opinion on that one and feel free to chop off the "imperial" - but imperial here can refer to the connotation of the imagery rather than the actual placement of the actual statue. Can a "Chinese flag" displayed outside

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article page. This article should be locked and editors should be asked to research more and cite sources. It looks like that Commercial website owners selling these stone lions in the west are fraudulently calling them "stone Dogs" instead of "stone LIONS" to make them more appealing to increase

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My parents once told me that the stone ball found in the lions' mouth was for good luck. Essentially, people would roll it around and after enough time, it would erode and fall out. If it fell out when you rolled it, that was extremely good luck. It's a good factoid to put in this article, but I

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All of the closely related and resembling breeds are known as LION (Fu or Foo) DOGS. The above page mentions it is cross of a Chow Chow already mentioned in the article, outside china breeders maybe trying to attract too much attention to their dog by naming their breed as foo dog but the fact

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While it has undoubtedly taken much time for you to write the above paragraph, the fact remains that it does not belong in wikipedia since much of the content is original research as well as unfounded assumptions. For a paragraph which contains so many assertions of causations (example: "It is

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It seems that the gender of the Japanese Koma dogs is probably reversed (although) I am not sure? Please since the article says that hte male dog is inhaling life and the femal dog is exhaling death...but, one dog has its mouth closed. So I am not sure how it can be inhaling or exhaling. I am

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guarding temples and palaces in India not stone Dogs as someone has inserted incorrectly in this article. Hearing stories from monks about Indian lions the ancient Chinese sculptors used local Chinese dogs to sculpt Chinese version of the lion as no one in China had ever seen a real lion

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Can anyone elaborate on incarnations of the lions in earlier (pre-Yuan) dynasties? When I visited the Miaoying Temple, the lions were small more svelte, almost leopard-like. The male, with ball also seems to be on a right looking out from the building. I have a fairly decent picture.

1588:– This already has a name in Chinese, meaning "stone lion", so why give it a very generic English name instead like "Chinese guardian lions"? While Tóngshī is also used for bronze versions, clearly the stone versions are most well known. I also support the potential alternate move to 1504:

The Chinese male and female are denoted by the ball and cub, as stated in the article, however the symbolism should read that the ball under the male's paw represents power and unity of the empire(China), while the female's cub represents prosperity and the

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Also, the comments about mouths being open is again a Japanese theme. Japanese "shishi" dogs denote male and female by one with an open mouth and one with a closed mouth. I believe the Female has the closed mouth, in order to hold in the family fortune.

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I don't see why "Guardian lions" redirect here, when there are many western style lion statue pairs to the entrances of buildings and other places, possibly originating from western heraldry, and there should very well be an article on examples of such.

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I removed the "citation needed" and the word "高麗犬" from the paragraph "In Japan", Etymology. "狛" and "高麗" are absolutely the same words which has the same meanings and the same pronunciations. You can see the fact on Japanese Wiktionary if you know

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but Just LIONS) called Foo or Fu lions, meaning lions of Buddha. When Buddhist monks brought stories to ancient China from India that statues of stone lions were commonly seen outside Buddhist temple and monastery entrances in India (As real wild

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This article makes veiled attempts to claim that lions or images of lions found in various foreign countries (India, Russia, Japan etc.) are in fact Chinese guardian lions. However, no reliable sources have been provided, and this seems to be

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For these reasons, I have again removed this paragraph and again gone in the direction of making this article more a disambiguation page, which directs the readers to other articles better suited to detail the topics of their interests. --

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their sales in the west, these business owners should not be allowed to vandalize this article to mean DOG Statues and spread misinformation to make their products (stone lion statues) more appealing to the customers in western cultures.

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But today "高麗" is obsolete way of writing. I couldn't find a dictionary which has the convination of kanji "高麗犬", that is, they all have adopted only "狛犬" today. Though it's easy to speculate formerly "Komainu" was also written as "高麗犬".

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The couple erroneous facts in this article appear to be from mixing the Chinese details with the Japanese and Koren details. There is nothing "dog like" about the Chinese lions, however the Japanese counterpart is distincly dog like.

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The male is actually on the left and the female is on the right from the dwelling and from the lion's point of view. The article is written from an external perspective of someone viewing the structure being protected by the lions.

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2)It is always a pair of lions now and the Imperial guarding lions are a definite pair not a single lion, a male and a female, hence the title can not be Singular, hence the title with "lions" not "Lion".

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over redirect: because they are widely used at the entrances of major Buddhist Temples (origin), buildings, businesses, supermarkets, Chinatowns all over the world including Royal palaces in China.

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over redirect: as replicas are found and used all over the world where Chinese people have immigrated and settled specially in local Chinatowns etc. Plenty are found in Toronto, Canada for example.

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to make them more appealing in the western countries due to their consumerist economy and to increase their sales of stone lions crafted in China are being marketed in the west as stone Dogs.

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to make them more appealing in the western countries due to their consumerist economy and to increase their sales of stone lions crafted in China are being marketed in the west as stone Dogs.

714:, there is no reason why the Chinese name should be "stone lion". In Chinese, you would call the sclupture by its material - 石狮，铁狮，铜狮 (stone lion, iron lion, bronze lion) as appropriate. -- 1848:. At the time stories reached China that Buddhist temples and monasteries in India were being guarded by the traditional stone lions found in front of Buddhist temples and palaces in 1184:. At the time stories reached China that Buddhist temples and monasteries in India were being guarded by the traditional stone lions found in front of Buddhist temples and palaces in 1248:

I think we need better sources for the claim that Chinese guardian lions are depictions of dogs. There are clear resemblances between classical depictions of the lion in India (e.g.

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There is an actual breed of dog called a Fu Dog, Or Chinese Foo Dog. I wish this article would expand on this. Lion Dogs are NOT the same as the breed Fu Dog.

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sculpted into a lion shape". The two articles do not correspond well. Unless the subject of this article is similarly restricted to stone sculptures

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Seriously, I keep getting the most random messages saying I've been vandalising! If I want to edit things, I log the hell in! I have an account!

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Does Harry Dresden's dog Mouse not count because it's actually a dog? He's a Foo Dog, and is specifically supposed to be magical and from Tibet.

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China still be called a "Chinese flag"? I don't see why not. And the same goes for the Imperial eagle, double-headed eagle, dragon or lion. --

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1) These particular ones are Specific to China and their appearance is very specefic to China, and other types exist in India and elsewhere

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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Looks like someone did a bad move of the content from there to here. Probably should fix the edit history record at some point. —

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If it rolls out while you are rolling it, you're most likely to get fined for damaging public property. Not good luck! 8-) --

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sculpture form. By contrast, the Chinese Knowledge article has the following definitional sentence "石狮子就是雕刻成狮子形状的石头" -- "

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at all and the English term (having nothing to do with their Chinese name or intention) is in fact often "foo dog". —

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it shouldn't include the (unsourced and biased) term "miscalled". The simple fact is that the things don't look like

1808:) refers to any of the following closely related dog breeds originating in ancient China which came to resemble the 1144:) refers to any of the following closely related Dog breeds originating in ancient China which came to resemble the 860:

and removed the content that I merged from Shishi. I changed the lead section to that the imperial guardian lion is

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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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and any of the other following closely related Dog breeds originating in ancient China came to resemble the

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and any of the other following closely related Dog breeds originating in ancient China came to resemble the

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A Chinese told me that the female lion is in fact nurturing her cub by her left paw. Could someone verify.

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Can someone stick up a redirection page under the title "Fu Lion". I would, but my Wiki-Fu is not best.

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Moved following POV comment from the article and listed here for record and further research etc.:-

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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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breed of Chinese dogs is one of the native dogs used as the original model for the creation of

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breed of Chinese dogs is one of the native dogs used as the original model for the creation of

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Moved above POV comment from the article and listed here for record and further research etc.

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remains that all resembling and related dog breeds originating in China are called foo dogs.

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Chinese guardian lions are Foo or Fu LIONS not DOGS as being persistently vandalized on the

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Chinese guardian lions are Foo or Fu LIONS not DOGS as being persistently vandalized on the

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are Foo Lions or Fu Lions and Buddha's Lions NOT Foo Dogs NOR Fu Dogs and NOT Buddha's Dogs

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Its Foo Lions or Fu Lions and Buddha's Lions NOT Foo Dogs NOR Fu Dogs and NOT Buddha's Dogs

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Moved Article Title from "Imperial guardian lion" to "Imperial guardian lions of China"

747:...lion". The lions can also be placed in temples or at the home of the wealthy. If the 741:. I have added the reference to the article. And I doubt why this article is titled as " 531:

The reference to African lions seems wrong. Lions are also found in Asia (e.g., India).

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then.......... even though Asiatic / Indian lions were common in India then across the

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Why can't "stone lions" refer to non-stone lions? Um. Because they are not stone lions.

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Last edited at 22:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 11:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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which were modeled after them and hence these dog breeds came to be called

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which were modeled after them and hence these dog breeds came to be called

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Had to Move Article Title again from "Chinese imperial guardian lions" to

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In English language the current title is much more recognisable than

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Moved Article Title again from "Imperial guardian lions of China" to

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as one of its other names. I have provided highly a reliable source

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lion can also refer to the lions at non-imperial places, why can't

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We are not discussing the title of this article, but only whether

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It's not vandalism. They look like dogs. They get called dogs. —

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it should be bolded as a common alt name for the article and

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this

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Maybe I should make myself clear again I have noticed that

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Maybe I should make myself clear again I have noticed that

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Imperial guardian lions of China is appropriate because:

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Kindly find correct references and list them here, Thanks

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in the lead section. Thank you for your understanding. --

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lion also refer to the non-stone lions? Please note that

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Thanks - I agree with the distinction you have made. --

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before which were however quite common in neighboring

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before which were however quite common in neighboring

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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Start-Class China-related articles of Mid-importance

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http://www.dooziedog.com/dog_breeds/chinese_foo_dog/

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You're right that the term should be mentioned, but

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does in fact mean "happiness" or "good fortune". --

1867:PLEASE HELP FIND REFERENCES TO BETTER THE ARTICLE 1840:in ancient China when no one had ever seen a real 1659:. No further edits should be made to this section. 1176:in ancient China when no one had ever seen a real 132:This article has not yet received a rating on the 1328:Is the Chinese stone lion based on the Chow Chow? 830:. I think that it's enough to justify mentioning 737:. It clearly says that Lion of Fo is also called 1401: 1860:modeled after them and were henceforth called 1488:, and are posted here for posterity. Following 1196:modeled after them and were henceforth called 505:is Chinese for 'happiness', but the entry for 1482:The comment(s) below were originally left at 8: 852:After reconsidering your opinion, I changed 605:Gender Reversed? Inhaling Japanese Koma Dog? 509:doesn't indicate that. Can someone verify? 19: 1522:The following is a closed discussion of a 407: 339: 234: 145: 47: 1976:Unknown-importance Architecture articles 1791:Pasting the Intro/first para for record: 1463:. Should these references be deleted? - 1293:Considering that your ISP appears to be 619:can't seem to find a citation anywhere. 409: 341: 236: 177:This article falls within the scope of 147: 49: 1996:Mid-importance China-related articles 870:. Hope this is OK for you. Thanks. -- 7: 1592:, but the current name is ungainly. 1541:The result of the move request was: 1485:Talk:Chinese guardian lions/Comments 452:This article is within the scope of 368:This article is within the scope of 282:This article is within the scope of 92:This article is within the scope of 1267:How many people have my IP address? 926:Traveling Buddhist monks saw stone 769:as its names, but does not mention 38:It is of interest to the following 1991:Start-Class China-related articles 112:Knowledge:WikiProject Architecture 14: 1971:Start-Class Architecture articles 1490:several discussions in past years 1125:Intro of the separate article on 1000:"Chinese imperial guardian lions" 472:Knowledge:WikiProject Visual arts 191:for more details on the projects. 115:Template:WikiProject Architecture 2026:WikiProject Visual arts articles 2021:Start-Class visual arts articles 1986:Low-importance Buddhism articles 930:guarding temples and palaces in 475:Template:WikiProject Visual arts 439: 429: 411: 361: 343: 269: 259: 238: 170: 149: 79: 69: 51: 20: 1326:Related discussion on a Forum: 388:Knowledge:WikiProject Sculpture 322:This article has been rated as 217:This article has been rated as 2016:WikiProject Sculpture articles 2011:Start-Class sculpture articles 1940:02:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC) 1625:seems to be much more common. 1515:Requested move 22 October 2019 1447:23:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC) 1362:13:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC) 649:03:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC) 391:Template:WikiProject Sculpture 197:Knowledge:WikiProject Buddhism 1: 1981:Start-Class Buddhism articles 1785:12:35, 26 February 2023 (UTC) 1711:12:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC) 1689:12:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC) 1473:10:24, 25 November 2015 (UTC) 1342:00:07, 29 November 2009 (UTC) 1262:05:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 691:01:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC) 664:02:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC) 501:There's a sentence that says 466:and see a list of open tasks. 382:and see a list of open tasks. 296:and see a list of open tasks. 200:Template:WikiProject Buddhism 106:and see a list of open tasks. 1956:09:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC) 1905:22:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 1877:05:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC) 1770:04:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC) 1748:As for "real LION DOGS" or " 1635:14:06, 24 October 2019 (UTC) 1606:05:39, 22 October 2019 (UTC) 1561:10:53, 30 October 2019 (UTC) 1389:11:19, 20 January 2019 (UTC) 1315:23:21, 9 February 2009 (UTC) 1239:09:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC) 1212:09:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC) 1092:04:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC) 1068:As for "real LION DOGS" or " 526:07:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC) 1287:21:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 820:should be mentioned in its 577:17:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC) 539:13:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC) 302:Knowledge:WikiProject China 2042: 2006:WikiProject China articles 1832:. It is believed that the 1665:If this ever opens again, 1168:. It is believed that the 906:"Guardian lions" redirect. 880:10:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC) 844:07:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC) 812:00:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 783:07:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 724:05:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 328:project's importance scale 305:Template:WikiProject China 223:project's importance scale 134:project's importance scale 1497: 1416:09:06, 13 July 2014 (UTC) 1034:08:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 1014:07:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 994:10:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC) 962:10:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC) 938:Buddhist monks saw stone 592:16:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC) 513:04:18, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC) 424: 356: 321: 254: 216: 165: 131: 64: 46: 1911:Fu or Foo Dog as a breed 1649:Please do not modify it. 1529:Please do not modify it. 1120:07:29, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1020:"Chinese guardian lions" 95:WikiProject Architecture 1582:Shishi (disambiguation) 921:09:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 898:02:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC) 827:Encyclopædia Britannica 758:Encyclopædia Britannica 735:Encyclopædia Britannica 729:Please see the article 614:Stone ball in the mouth 455:WikiProject Visual arts 1858:Chinese guardian lions 1838:Chinese guardian lions 1810:Chinese guardian lions 1757:Chinese guardian lions 1738:Chinese guardian lions 1728:Chinese guardian lions 1717:Chinese guardian lions 1669:. "Stone lion" is far 1568:Chinese guardian lions 1395:removed the word "高麗犬" 1194:Chinese guardian lions 1174:Chinese guardian lions 1152:. Fu or Foo refers to 1146:Chinese guardian lions 1077:Chinese guardian lions 1058:Chinese guardian lions 1048:Chinese guardian lions 771:imperial guardian lion 308:China-related articles 28:This article is rated 371:WikiProject Sculpture 118:Architecture articles 1108:is 'Sinh or Singh". 1096:Above comment by: " 856:back to a main page 478:visual arts articles 180:WikiProject Buddhism 967:Moved Article Title 858:Shishi (stone lion) 87:Architecture portal 1478:Assessment comment 1454:Foreign references 1408:Akiyama(tentative) 1295:Cox Communications 947:(mountain range). 761:at least mentions 447:Visual arts portal 394:sculpture articles 34:content assessment 1930:comment added by 1603: 1551: 1548:non-admin closure 1509: 1508: 1450: 1433:comment added by 1312: 1277:comment added by 1106:Sanskrit language 693: 681:comment added by 646: 574: 494: 493: 490: 489: 486: 485: 406: 405: 402: 401: 338: 337: 334: 333: 285:WikiProject China 233: 232: 229: 228: 203:Buddhism articles 144: 143: 140: 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