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NRMs, probably makes more sense to do from there than from here. When writing this proposal, I think it was originally similar; just a simple move, no split. Plus, changing the name away from using the word "list" and toward using the legal concept would make the article stronger and less susceptible
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This would also resolve what appears to be long-standing issues about what ought to be included on this page and improve the page's quality. Discussions over the inclusion or exclusion of
Taiwanese organizations has popped up from time to time and the source of a few previous back-and-forths between
636:
Those are great references- thanks much. While not recognized as a mater of politics by the UN, Taiwan is very much a distinct, sovereign nation. While Taiwan, AKA, The
Republic of China, lays claim to the mainland nation of China, that country, AKA, The People's Republic of China, lays claim to
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I also was able to add some readings in the "Further reading" and "External links" sections of the article, and I hope that those references are useful in improving the article in the future. Feel free to add more reliable sources, especially if they are about the article's general topic and not a
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The reason for this proposed split and re-name is seeming lack of clarity on the purpose of this article. Looking at the edit history, the original focus of this article was apparently to discuss and share a list of cults produced by governmental organization(s), not merely reproduce any list of
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I'm a bit alarmed to note that the principle source of the claim that this law was principally enacted to target the Falun Gong seems to come from a
Jerusalem Post article that, in turn, is sole-sourced to faluninfo. I removed the JP citation because, no, we should not be using such a source to
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the PRC's NRM-related policy. As such, this article is going to be shifted away from being a list and toward being a direct discussion of é‚Şć•™, "heterodox teachings" (if a more appropriate translation is found, we can discuss that later). Moving this article is the best way to do this at this
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and have totally restructured the article per that move. This did involve removing most of the article as it existed before, though only some information has been lost (and that information was mostly the names of NRMs that I had not seen on PRC lists). You can see
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specific NRM. Also feel free to add other sections about the use of the term before or after 2000. I am now going to go back through the "what links here" to change how this article is referenced, as the purpose has changed somewhat. Cheers - -
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be included in the title of a
Knowledge article if it is discussing a discernible point of view in an NPOV way -- consensus on the topic of cults is that it is generally inappropriate for Knowledge to designate any group a "cult" out of hand.
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Taiwan. While their political dispute is ongoing, so is the circumstance of separate and sovereign nations. To ascribe that dispute resolved to the favor of one party or the other would be both partisan and counter factual.
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and other articles it would also have to clearly distinguish the legal status of é‚Şć•™ in the ROC and PRC (though again, my understanding is that the ROC has no such designation and therefore that can be easily clarified in the
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center Falun Gong within the context of a broader
Chinese law. FLG is just one of 22 groups identified by the law and we need better sources, by far, than that to say, in wiki voice, that it was enacted to go after them.
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seems like the right place for everything that would be on a list of
Chinese NRMs. Furthermore, I think its more structured format will help with some of the quality issues on the current page. Yes, it should
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I concur, it is my understanding that this page is about religious organisations that are explicitly prohibited at some level in China, and that would be presented by some level of
Chinese government as a
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as opposed to a simple move and edit is to provide a space for an actual list of
Chinese new religious movements, which the article as it stands now appears to be interested in providing. It should be
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I think I actually prefer this suggestion to the split, both because it's relatively easier and because no other country has a
Knowledge article about their specific new religious movements.
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Taiwan is not part of China- it's a separate, sovereign state recognized by the United
Nations. Organizations labeled "cult" by the government of Taiwan do not belong on this list.
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The Scottish people are fed-up with the Brexit bull-shit. The Scots would rather stay in the European Union than to accept the Brexit deal which is negotiated by
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does not maintain a similar official list of cults to the PRC's list -- if it does, discussion of that list would probably be most appropriate to be included on
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I see rather than engaging at talk you just went and reverted. Please reply to this message regarding the Jerusalem Post being used to launder faluninfo.
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I should also note that the characterization of FLG as "A qigong organization" is humorously out of date considering the political activities of
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with a syncretic blend of Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, UFO worship and personality worship centered on Li Hongzhi. They also do qigong.
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They're not scare quotes, it's just a direct quotation. I'll edit the section title to be clearer and avoid the appearance of a POV. - -
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as discussion of Taiwanese culture is generally considered acceptable in articles about Chinese culture generally. As far as I know, the
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1005:. All this sounds good and worthwhile to me, and you seem to have a sensible vision of how to do it. Let me know if I can assist
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at the bottom of the page -- the article intended to discuss this official designation). It was also previously briefly moved to
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830:. I agree that new religious movements of Chinese origin are something completely different, and that we should avoid the world
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This use of scare-quotes in this section can be construed as dismissive and therefore serve as a form of editorialization. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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as standard format for WP articles about Chinese legal concepts seems to be to translate them in lowercase. See eg
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
687:) that actually lists Chinese NRMs is not notable outside of what would be directly discussed in
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probably covers the topic well enough, and if it makes sense to split out an article about
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Clearly there are movements such as Falun Gong would appear on both pages.
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in case rescuing some of that information is of interest in the future.
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as it would likely be limited, with the potential to split it out into
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is already a separate, sovereign state recognized by the United Nations
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or something like this? And disambiguating from the current page?
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editors. These organizations would be correctly listed on
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Start-Class China-related articles of Low-importance
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Jerusalem Post, Falun Gong and Persecution Complexes
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in 2019 in order to copy over some information from
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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834:for NPOV reasons. The suggested name seems fine.
720:cults that happens to be Chinese in origin (see
605:Proposed second Scottish independence referendum
1250:Low-importance New religious movements articles
601:United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758
334:, a project to improve Knowledge's articles on
946:Actually, I think the capitalization would be
923:to shifting back to this state over time. - -
704:I propose that the content of this article be
672:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
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1245:Start-Class New religious movements articles
774:because "cult" is a POV term, and ought to
722:Governmental lists of cults and sects#China
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1151:and the general recognition that FLG is a
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729:People's Republic of China list of cults
710:People's Republic of China list of cults
564:People's Republic of China list of cults
556:Text and/or other creative content from
1095:remove scrare quotes around "dangerous"
785:List of Chinese new religious movements
772:List of Chinese new religious movements
754:State Sponsors of Terrorism (U.S. list)
714:List of Chinese new religious movements
607:as an example, if I am allowed to say "
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956:Socialism with Chinese characteristics
1220:Low-importance China-related articles
852:What about renaming the current page
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559:Governmental lists of cults and sects
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1074:That's a big improvement, well done
691:and/or in the context of an article
663:The following discussion is closed.
492:This article is within the scope of
404:This article is within the scope of
326:This article is within the scope of
211:This article is within the scope of
106:This article is within the scope of
1045:above, I have moved the article to
502:and the subjects encompassed by it.
1215:Start-Class China-related articles
799:if necessary at a later date. - -
431:New religious movements work group
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1047:Heterodox teachings (Chinese law)
948:Heterodox teachings (Chinese law)
894:Heterodox Teachings (Chinese law)
854:Heterodox Teachings (Chinese Law)
679:Heterodox teachings (Chinese law)
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1205:Low-importance politics articles
1028:The discussion above is closed.
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382:This article has been rated as
251:This article has been rated as
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1041:So as per the discussion with
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362:Knowledge:WikiProject Religion
126:Knowledge:WikiProject Politics
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1235:Start-Class Religion articles
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708:into two different articles:
428:This article is supported by
365:Template:WikiProject Religion
225:and see a list of open tasks.
129:Template:WikiProject Politics
120:and see a list of open tasks.
898:Freedom of religion in China
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629:02:36, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
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896:makes sense, though as per
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18:Talk:Chinese lists of cults
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289:New religious movements
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615:Scotland
411:inactive
359:Religion
337:Religion
280:Religion
123:Politics
114:politics
70:Politics
920:Chinese
603:. Take
568:history
386:on the
255:on the
150:on the
992:Yeah,
901:lead).
47:scale.
768:split
706:split
696:time.
693:about
228:China
219:China
175:China
1179:talk
1161:talk
1138:talk
1105:talk
1083:talk
1011:talk
1001:not
870:talk
832:cult
826:and
824:cult
820:cult
816:cult
776:only
643:talk
625:talk
591:talk
348:and
346:good
758:not
731:by
524:???
505:Law
459:Law
378:Low
350:1.0
247:Low
142:Low
1196::
1181:)
1163:)
1140:)
1107:)
1085:)
1013:)
954:,
872:)
716:.
645:)
627:)
613:.
593:)
438:).
287:/
283::
1177:(
1169:@
1159:(
1136:(
1103:(
1081:(
1009:(
990::
986:@
891::
887:@
868:(
641:(
623:(
589:(
532:.
414:.
390:.
259:.
154:.
53:.
20:)
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