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rest of the belligerents because it was never allied with UNITA and the FNLA, or supported by their respective allies, 2) removed Brazil, Belarus, and the
Russian Federation because these countries sold the MPLA regime arms but were never directly allied with it in the same way the Soviet Union and Cuba were, 3) added dates to the FNLA, the People's Republic of China, and South Africa to indicate when they ceased to be actors in the war, 4) added the ANC, Namibia, and the ex-Katangese gendarmes/FNLC to the infobox as active belligerents with plenty of ample sourcing, and 5) added North Korea as a supporting party with two additional primary sources.
1178:"Here come Europe's Cubans," headlined "Time" in 1980 about alleged military operations of the GDR in Africa. Two years later, Die Welt reported that "Honecker's Africa Corps" was already 30,000 strong. This colonial-historical allusion had been invented by the "Spiegel", but in 1980 it counted only 2720 military advisers of the GDR in Africa, while the "SĂĽddeutsche Zeitung" suspected two years earlier 3500 GDR paratroopers in Angola and referred to an English newspaper. She thus earned herself a denial by GDR Foreign Minister Oskar Fischer: "Something that is untrue does not become more true even through repetition.""
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refernces to sensationalist headlines (often in the context of talking about them being untrue, such as the currently used source), which detail any (thens of) thousands strong legions of East German combat troops. Since the article also clearly states that the DDR advisors did not participate in combat missions, Honecker can also not be listed as a commander in the conflict.
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The source you linked says that 2 years before 1980 (1978) some rag talked about how another rag claiming (made up) that 3,500 german paratroopers (combat troops) fought in Angola. 2 years later (1980) yet a third rag had inflated this to even 30,000. Luckily the esteemed tagesspiegel informs us that
1120:
No, it does not. It first talks about the myth of "DDR Afrika Korps" and says that Die Welt/Spiegel invented "30,000 strong legion" while SĂĽddeutsche
Zeitung "suspected" a "3,500 strong legion" by referring to some claim from a British paper. Neither of these are true and the Tagesspiel article uses
1086:
Even the article from
Tagesspiegel used as source for the involvment of "3,500 DDR paratroopers" in the infobox only talks about how this was a fake story. DDR only supplied some advisors and pilots to Angola (as the aforementioned source even says!) There were no DDR combat troops and Honecker was
899:
With regards to the belligerents, the current infobox is a horrific quagmire of unsourced, dubious, and invisible information that's been commented out. I went over all the sources and listed belligerents and revised that particular section, fixing a few problems such as: 1) separated FLEC from the
1216:
Can a proper historical book about the
Angolan Civil War be found which talks about the thousands of DDR troops participating in the war today? No. Because this exists only in unfounded claims from the 1980's and in an article which references those fakes of the 1980's. The article is not a source
1355:
What does this even mean? The DDR's support for MPLA might well be mentioned in any book about the war, but that would be in relation to the ~2,700 personnel they sent to Angola and other
African coutntries and not the any fictitous "thousands strong combat units", which only exists in the a few
1278:
Thats trying to "prove a negative". The point was that no such book exists since thre were no such thing happening. No book will talk about the DDR legion just as no book will talk about the 50,000 strong Korean expeditionary force in the
Angolan Civil War. Rather than trying proving a negative,
1181:
The article then goes on to talk about the kernel of truth behind these claims; the DDR's actual involmvent in Angola by way of disguised transport pilots, "development workers", and arms dealing. There exists no academic or historical sources, even after the end of the DDR, other than vague
1213:
And the minister is not the one trusted, but rather the fact that 40 years from then, after the end of the East German state, we now know that the claims made in those non-academic, non-historical magazines at the time were exaggerated fakes (again, as the article from the tagesspiel talks
1217:
for claiming that 3,500 paratroopers participated. That is only listed as an example of the fakes in
Western media that the Minister denied before going on to say this denial was a bit hypocritical since there actually were some advisors and disguised pilots there.
960:
Namibia was under the administration of South Africa until the South
African Border War, i think the map should reflect this because its independence was directly connected to the Angolan civil war. Maybe color it light blue and add a note in the image description.
1121:
both as the examples of the myth of the "Honecker's Afrika Korps" in Angola. The second paragraph of the article talks about the reality of DDR support: non-combat support like transport pilots, "development workers", and arms dealing .
1060:
It says that China ceased supporting UNITA in
October 1975. The war started in November of that year. If UNITA was not supported by the PRC by a month before the war even started, should it even be included?
2003:"Interesting aspects of the South African Bushwar / Border War – A Site about the South African Bushwar / Border War (Grensoorlog of Bosoorlog in Afrikaans)/ Total cummulative SADF casualties table"
2026:
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The body mentions that the
Republic of the Congo under Lissouba provided UNITA with bases in the ROC until the Angolan invasion, however the ROC is not mentioned in the infobox.
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So you have a english newspaper saying that there's 3,500 and and you have a German Foreign Minister saying that it's not true. Why trust the Minister more than the newspaper?
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The story of thousands of East German troops in Angola is a false and extremely exaggerated story circulated in western media in the 80's and the mind of boomers today.
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The Tagesspiegel source says the 30,000 are fake and the 3,500 are assumed (source was a english newspaper, don't know which one.) Honecker was the
328:
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Again, the source you used talk about how this was invented. Why are you ignoring this? It even gives you the real numbers of 2,720 personell in
1279:
where is the historical/academic proof detailing this legion? Of course there is none, because the fictious DDR legion did not exist in reality.
1273:
Can a proper historical book about the Angolan Civil War be found which talks about the thousands of DDR troops participating in the war today?
1238:
Can a proper historical book about the Angolan Civil War be found which talks about the thousands of DDR troops participating in the war today?
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The paper than you dont even know? A paper that is even unmentioned in the article since their old allegations were not even real anyway?
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in 1980 the DDR had only 2,720 advisors/instructors/pilots in all of Africa and that the DDR did not undertake any combat operations.
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To tell you the thruth: If you give me just one source that says it's a myth i'll agree with you and we can drop this issue.
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I think this proposed revision of the infobox is more concise and more accurate than what's currently on the page. --
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160:, leader of UNITA, killed in 2002; UNITA abandoned armed struggle and participated in electoral politics.
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Participation of UNITA and FNLA, as political parties, in the new political system, from 1991/92 onwards.
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Republic of the Congo (Brazzaville) involvement in the the war mentioned in the body but not the infobox
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Shubin, Vladimir; Shubin, Gennady; Blanch, Hedelberto (2015). Liebenberg, Ian; Risquet, Jorge (eds.).
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Try "Geheime Solidarität : Militärbeziehungen und Militärhilfen der DDR in die Dritte Welt"
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The new infobox is going up. Anybody has any objections, feel free to discuss them here. --
1833:
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Political terrorism: a new guide to actors, concepts, data bases, theories and literature
1371:
1981:"Soviet Union and Russia lost 25,000 military men in foreign countries – English Pravda"
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also played a part in awakening the Angolan people to an autonomous life as a nation.
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The Last Hot Battle of the Cold War: South Africa vs. Cuba in the Angolan Civil War
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The Last Hot Battle of the Cold War: South Africa vs. Cuba in the Angolan Civil War
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I don't want one that talks about the DDR, but one that doesn't. You talked about
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don't consider them reliable, but that doesn't mean anything on Knowledge (XXG).
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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The article is not a source for claiming that 3,500 paratroopers participated.
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It is necessary to add more content in the description of the political party
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Fitzsimmons, Scott (November 2012). "Executive Outcomes Defeats UNITA".
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The Diplomacy of Liberation: The Foreign Relations of the ANC Since 1960
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If you give me just one source that says it's a myth i'll agree with you
1245:
If you give me just one source that says it's a myth i'll agree with you
1860:"Soviet Union and Russia lost 25,000 military men in foreign countries"
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headlines from 40 years ago (as the Tagesspiegel article explains...)
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https://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/honeckers-afrika-korps-2282446.html
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1775:(Third ed.). Durban: Just Done Productions Publishing. pp. 102–106.
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Soviet Strategy in Southern Africa: Gorbachev's Pragmatic Approach
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I don't want one that talks about the DDR, but one that doesn't.
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1727:. New Brunswick: Transaction Publishers. pp. 207–214, 239–245.
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tags on this page, but the references will not show without a
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since they were the first parties in Angola together with the
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1936:(illustrated ed.). Oxford: Casemate Publishers. pp. 164–171.
1652:. New Haven, Connecticut: Yale University Press. pp. 42–46.
614:
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Transition towards a multiparty political system in 1991/92.
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Angola – Independence Struggle, Civil War, and Intervention
1302:
Again, the source you used talk about how this was invented
1725:
A Political History of the Civil War in Angola: 1974-1990
1674:
Israel/Palestine and the Politics of a Two-State Solution
1575:
My Enemy's Enemy: Proxy Warfare in International Politics
1540:
Soviet policy and practice toward Third World conflicts
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at that time and says they were not involved in combat.
1836:(in Spanish). CubaMatinal.com. Retrieved 9 March 2013.
1275:
If you have one that can be used as a source, link it.
1240:
If you have one that can be used as a source, link it.
1676:. Jefferson: McFarland & Company Inc. pp. 94–99.
1312:proper historical book about the Angolan Civil War
1628:. Stanford: Hoover Institution Press. pp. 41–57.
1087:not a leader/commander in the Angolan civil war.
1650:Southern Africa: Old Treacheries and New Deceits
1604:. Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. p. 151, 233.
1480:. London: Tauris Academic Studies. pp. 202–207.
1454:The Hot "Cold War": The USSR in Southern Africa
1348:Its even used as source in the article already.
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1577:. Brighton: Sussex Academic Press. pp. 65–79.
8:
151:Dissolution of the armed forces of the FNLA.
1542:. Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield. p. 87.
1105:, the leader of East Germany at the time.
1056:Chinese support of UNITA (or lack thereof)
1000:
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145:Withdrawal of all foreign forces in 1989.
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163:Resistance of FLEC continued to this day
114:(26Â years, 4Â months, 3Â weeks and 3Â days)
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1538:Wolfe, Thomas; Hosmer, Stephen (1983).
1456:. London: Pluto Press. pp. 92–93, 249.
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1958:Bush Wars: The Road to Cuito Cuanavale
1700:. Stellenbosch: Sun Press. pp. 86–87.
1452:Shubin, Vladimir Gennadyevich (2008).
1308:No book will talk about the DDR legion
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1983:. English.pravda.ru. 15 February 2011
1858:Andrei Mikhailov (15 February 2011).
1827:"La Guerras Secretas de Fidel Castro"
1447:
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1318:some rag talked about how another rag
7:
2013:
1503:Mercenaries in Asymmetric Conflicts
1342:And you don't have a different one?
1326:I hope that doesn't sound too harsh
1304:And you don't have a different one?
1283:But it says that there is a source.
1234:But it says that there is a source.
1751:. Casemate Publishers. pp. 66–68.
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1698:A Far-Away War: Angola, 1975-1989
1602:Angola: A Modern Military History
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1881:Irving Louis Horowitz (1995).
1723:James III, W. Martin (2011) .
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990:16:39, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
1:
1747:Polack, Peter (13 Dec 2013).
1416:08:29, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
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1103:Chairman of the State Council
1885:Cuban Communism, 8th Edition
1672:Mitchell, Thomas G. (2013).
1516:10.1017/CBO9781139208727.006
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1115:13:32, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
1097:12:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
1846:Africa South of Sahara 2004
1771:Steenkamp, Willem (2006) .
1071:18:31, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
893:Over 500,000 civilians dead
709:40,000 (1976)–70,000 (1987)
141:People's Republic of Angola
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1508:Cambridge University Press
1137:Neither of these are true
950:13:53, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
924:23:30, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
671:Balthazar Johannes Vorster
467:People's Republic of China
1600:Weigert, Stephen (2011).
1076:"Honecker's Afrika Korps"
1015:06:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
999:The end of the cold war
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1624:Vanneman, Peter (1990).
1573:Hughes, Geraint (2014).
1374:to get this sorted out.
963:RocketsFallOnRocketFalls
629:Demosthenes Chilingutila
2019:<ref group=note: -->
1832:18 January 2012 at the
971:02:32, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
522:José Eduardo dos Santos
2023:{{reflist|group=note}}
1932:Polack, Peter (2013).
1648:Chan, Stephen (2012).
1476:Thomas, Scott (1995).
956:Add Namibia on the map
769:65,000 (1990, highest)
497:Commanders and leaders
135:MPLA victory by 1992.
18:Talk:Angolan Civil War
1320:This just shows that
982:ProculusOfAlbingaunum
814:Casualties and losses
75:Latest on the infobox
42:of past discussions.
1176:(Machine translated)
801:South African troops
729:35,000–37,000 (1982)
1862:. English pravda.ru
1795:Saul David (2009).
1143:for this statement?
683:Pieter Willem Botha
661:Luiz Ranque Franque
588:Valentin Varennikov
2025:template (see the
1961:. Books.google.com
884:2,038 dead (whole
789:4,000–7,000 (1976)
242:Executive Outcomes
1781:978-1-920169-00-8
1733:978-1-4128-1506-2
1682:978-0-7864-7597-1
1462:978-0-7453-2472-2
1370:I've requested a
1243:As I said before:
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30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
2043:
2041:
2012:
2009:
2008:
1994:
1972:
1948:
1942:978-1612001951
1941:
1924:
1912:
1900:
1889:. Google Books
1873:
1850:
1838:
1814:
1803:. Google Books
1787:
1780:
1763:
1756:
1739:
1732:
1712:
1706:978-1920689728
1705:
1688:
1681:
1664:
1658:978-0300184280
1657:
1640:
1634:978-0817989026
1633:
1616:
1610:978-0230117778
1609:
1589:
1583:978-1845196271
1582:
1554:
1548:978-0669060546
1547:
1530:
1523:
1492:
1486:978-1850439936
1485:
1468:
1461:
1440:
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1431:
1430:
1429:
1428:
1427:
1426:
1425:
1424:
1423:
1422:
1421:
1420:
1419:
1418:
1353:
1349:
1346:
1343:
1315:
1314:, show me one.
1305:
1284:
1280:
1276:
1269:
1262:
1241:
1235:
1215:
1212:
1209:
1188:
1187:
1186:
1185:
1184:
1183:
1180:
1175:
1171:
1161:
1160:
1159:
1158:
1144:
1085:
1077:
1074:
1057:
1054:
1022:
1019:
996:
993:
977:
974:
957:
954:
953:
952:
895:
894:
890:
889:
875:
864:
851:
841:
839:
830:
816:
815:
811:
810:
809:
808:
791:
790:
787:
771:
770:
753:
752:
751:
734:
733:
730:
714:
713:
712:130,000 (2001)
710:
692:
691:
687:
686:
674:
662:
653:
651:Holden Roberto
642:
640:Alberto Vinama
631:
620:
601:
590:
579:
568:
557:
555:AntĂłnio Franca
546:
535:
524:
513:
510:Agostinho Neto
499:
498:
494:
493:
491:
490:
475:
473:
472:
457:
442:
438:
422:
421:
420:
419:
418:
403:
388:
371:
356:
354:
352:
351:
347:
335:
331:
319:
315:
303:
299:
283:
282:
281:
279:
278:
263:
248:
244:
239:
224:
209:
194:
179:
176:
175:
171:
170:
167:
166:
165:
164:
161:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
132:
128:
127:
122:
120:
116:
115:
113:
110:
102:
101:
93:
92:
84:
83:
76:
73:
70:
69:
62:
52:
51:
34:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2042:
2033:
2028:
2004:
1998:
1995:
1982:
1976:
1973:
1960:
1959:
1952:
1949:
1944:
1939:
1935:
1928:
1925:
1921:
1916:
1913:
1909:
1904:
1901:
1888:
1887:
1884:
1877:
1874:
1861:
1854:
1851:
1847:
1842:
1839:
1835:
1831:
1828:
1823:
1821:
1819:
1815:
1802:
1801:
1798:
1791:
1788:
1783:
1778:
1774:
1773:Borderstrike!
1767:
1764:
1759:
1757:9781612001951
1754:
1750:
1743:
1740:
1735:
1730:
1726:
1719:
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1713:
1708:
1703:
1699:
1692:
1689:
1684:
1679:
1675:
1668:
1665:
1660:
1655:
1651:
1644:
1641:
1636:
1631:
1627:
1620:
1617:
1612:
1607:
1603:
1596:
1594:
1590:
1585:
1580:
1576:
1569:
1567:
1565:
1563:
1561:
1559:
1555:
1550:
1545:
1541:
1534:
1531:
1526:
1524:9781107026919
1521:
1517:
1513:
1509:
1505:
1504:
1496:
1493:
1488:
1483:
1479:
1472:
1469:
1464:
1459:
1455:
1448:
1446:
1442:
1417:
1413:
1409:
1405:
1401:
1400:
1399:
1395:
1391:
1387:
1386:
1385:
1381:
1377:
1373:
1372:third-opinion
1369:
1368:
1367:
1363:
1359:
1354:
1350:
1347:
1344:
1340:
1339:
1338:
1334:
1330:
1323:
1316:
1306:
1300:
1299:
1298:
1294:
1290:
1285:
1281:
1277:
1274:
1270:
1267:
1266:all of Africa
1263:
1259:
1258:
1257:
1253:
1249:
1242:
1236:
1230:
1229:
1228:
1224:
1220:
1210:
1208:
1204:
1200:
1196:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1191:
1190:
1189:
1179:
1174:
1170:
1167:
1166:
1165:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1157:
1153:
1149:
1145:
1142:
1134:
1133:
1132:
1128:
1124:
1119:
1118:
1117:
1116:
1112:
1108:
1104:
1099:
1098:
1094:
1090:
1083:
1073:
1072:
1068:
1064:
1055:
1053:
1052:
1048:
1044:
1040:
1036:
1032:
1028:
1020:
1018:
1016:
1012:
1008:
1004:
994:
992:
991:
987:
983:
975:
973:
972:
968:
964:
955:
951:
948:
945:
943:
942:
936:
935:
928:
927:
926:
925:
922:
919:
917:
916:
910:
909:
901:
891:
887:
881:
876:
874:
863:
852:
847:
842:
835:
829:
818:
817:
812:
807:20,000 (1976)
806:
805:
804:
802:
797:
788:
786:22,000 (1975)
785:
784:
783:
782:
768:
767:
766:
765:
754:
749:
748:
747:
745:
744:Soviet troops
740:
732:60,000 (1988)
731:
728:
727:
726:
725:
724:Cuban troops:
720:
711:
708:
707:
706:
705:
694:
693:
688:
684:
679:
672:
667:
652:
641:
630:
619:
617:
612:
611:Jonas Savimbi
602:
600:
589:
584:
578:
577:Vasily Petrov
573:
567:
562:
556:
545:
534:
523:
511:
501:
500:
495:
489:
488:
477:
476:
468:
458:
453:
443:
437:
436:United States
427:
414:
404:
399:
389:
384:
383:
372:
370:
369:
358:
357:
355:
346:
336:
330:
320:
314:
304:
298:
288:
274:
264:
259:
249:
243:
240:
235:
225:
220:
210:
205:
195:
193:
192:
181:
180:
178:
177:
172:
162:
159:
158:Jonas Savimbi
156:
153:
150:
147:
144:
142:
138:
137:
136:
133:
130:
129:
125:
121:
118:
117:
111:
108:
107:
103:
99:
94:
90:
85:
80:
74:
67:
63:
61:
58:
57:
49:
45:
41:
40:
35:
28:
27:
19:
2015:Cite error:
2011:
1997:
1985:. Retrieved
1975:
1963:. Retrieved
1957:
1951:
1933:
1927:
1919:
1915:
1903:
1891:. Retrieved
1886:
1883:
1876:
1864:. Retrieved
1853:
1845:
1841:
1805:. Retrieved
1800:
1797:
1790:
1772:
1766:
1748:
1742:
1724:
1697:
1691:
1673:
1667:
1649:
1643:
1625:
1619:
1601:
1574:
1539:
1533:
1502:
1495:
1477:
1471:
1453:
1272:
1265:
1177:
1100:
1079:
1059:
1038:
1034:
1030:
1026:
1024:
1001:— Preceding
998:
979:
959:
940:
939:
933:
932:
914:
913:
907:
906:
902:
898:
872:
861:
853:
840:15,000 total
827:
819:
800:
792:
780:
772:
763:
755:
743:
735:
723:
715:
704:MPLA troops:
703:
695:
615:
566:Fidel Castro
544:Iko Carreira
478:
398:South Africa
373:
359:
313:East Germany
297:Soviet Union
182:
174:Belligerents
134:
91:(until 1991)
87:Part of the
65:
43:
37:
1408:1AmNobody24
1402:Still open
1376:1AmNobody24
1329:1AmNobody24
1248:1AmNobody24
1199:1AmNobody24
1169:1AmNobody24
1148:1AmNobody24
1107:1AmNobody24
1082:1AmNobody24
1007:105.0.1.140
685:(1978–1989)
673:(1975–1978)
512:(1975–1979)
440:(1975–1991)
401:(1975–1991)
386:(1975–1978)
345:North Korea
333:(1975–1991)
317:(1975–1989)
301:(1975–1991)
261:(1975–2001)
36:This is an
2017:There are
1510:. p. 167.
886:Border War
599:Sam Nujoma
533:LĂşcio Lara
329:Yugoslavia
2027:help page
1987:18 August
1965:18 August
1866:18 August
1214:about...)
850:54 killed
276:(2001–02)
246:(1993–95)
237:(1975–91)
222:(1975–91)
207:(1975–91)
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1848:, p. 66.
1830:Archived
1043:Aginacio
1003:unsigned
690:Strength
119:Location
89:Cold War
1893:9 March
1807:9 March
1063:Genabab
995:History
888:figure)
873:Unknown
862:Unknown
828:Unknown
455:(1970s)
452:Morocco
349:(1980s)
273:Namibia
39:archive
1388:Well?
1139:" Any
1037:. The
947:(talk)
921:(talk)
470:(1975)
416:(1975)
131:Result
124:Angola
1351:: -->
1341:: -->
1282:: -->
1271:: -->
1260:: -->
1141:Proof
1035:UNITA
934:Katan
908:Katan
413:Zaire
368:UNITA
219:SWAPO
16:<
1989:2013
1967:2013
1938:ISBN
1895:2013
1868:2013
1809:2013
1777:ISBN
1753:ISBN
1729:ISBN
1702:ISBN
1678:ISBN
1654:ISBN
1630:ISBN
1606:ISBN
1579:ISBN
1544:ISBN
1520:ISBN
1482:ISBN
1458:ISBN
1412:talk
1404:here
1394:talk
1380:talk
1362:talk
1333:talk
1293:talk
1252:talk
1223:talk
1203:talk
1152:talk
1127:talk
1111:talk
1093:talk
1067:talk
1047:talk
1039:FNLA
1033:and
1031:MPLA
1027:FNLA
1021:FNLA
1011:talk
986:talk
967:talk
941:gais
915:gais
487:FLEC
382:FNLA
258:FLNC
204:Cuba
191:MPLA
109:Date
1799:War
1512:doi
1322:you
234:ANC
2029:).
1817:^
1715:^
1592:^
1557:^
1518:.
1506:.
1444:^
1414:)
1406:.
1396:)
1382:)
1364:)
1335:)
1295:)
1254:)
1225:)
1205:)
1154:)
1129:)
1113:)
1095:)
1069:)
1049:)
1013:)
988:)
969:)
803::
746::
2005:.
1991:.
1969:.
1945:.
1922:.
1897:.
1870:.
1811:.
1784:.
1760:.
1736:.
1709:.
1685:.
1661:.
1637:.
1613:.
1586:.
1551:.
1527:.
1514::
1489:.
1465:.
1410:(
1392:(
1378:(
1360:(
1331:(
1291:(
1250:(
1221:(
1201:(
1150:(
1135:"
1125:(
1109:(
1091:(
1080:@
1065:(
1045:(
1009:(
984:(
965:(
616:â€
50:.
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