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German and
Russian) or accepting Christianity (borrowings from Latin). Latin started to influence Polish in the Middle Ages. When Polish statehood and Christian order were established, the language incorporated religious and liturgical vocabulary, often via Czech and German (e.g. anioł , msza ). Today this influence is limited mainly to scientific jargon. Words of German origin were borrowed particularly in the 19th century as a result of the policy of Germanization. It would be difficult to imagine modern Polish without such obvious lexical calques as czasopismo (magazine, after the German Zeitschrift), dworzec kolejowy (railway station, after Bahnhof) and owiatopoglšd (world view, after Weltanschauung). --
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alternative is that his family at some point abandoned their Polish name, and moreover, that his parents were sufficiently
Germanophile that, without even having German descent, they gave their son a German name in addition, and that Adolf, moreover, was never inclined to have it Polonized. Maybe someone can give me a reason why I'm wrong? -
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You didn't answer my questions: Ponary isn't used in
English for the name of the town ? Are you saying that Paneriai is an English name ? Since you claim that the name should be named after country it is in, then it would follow that it would be German or Polish name depending upon which country
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Ponary isn't used in
English for the name of the town ? Are you saying that Paneriai is an English name ? The name Ponary is used in english publications: deathcamps.org/reinhard/timeline/timelinetab1941.html 4 July: Beginning of mass executions of Jews in Vilnius (Wilna). Until 20 July about 5,000
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Secondly, his name, forename and surname, are German (not just German sounding); and I would suggest the onus (i.e. burden of proof) is on Molobo to prove that he isn't of German descent. The alternative is that his family abandoned their Polish name, and moreover, that his parents were sufficiently
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It usually is. You can only use the historical name when there is an absence of a common
English name, in which case you put the current local name in brackets upon first mention. If you think that the modern English name Paneriai (you have no case for Vilnius) isn't common enough, you have to give
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German forename, German surname, knowledge of the ethnographic situation in modern Polish history, etc. As to the census: Probably both. It doesn't matter though, we don't go trolling through censi in order to find out what to call one town when. That is the name of the town, both in
Lithuanian and
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00:01, 30 January 2006 (UTC) I don't think saying that a guy with a full German name is of German descent is a particularly dangerous guess; and it's certainly not nationalistic. This is a particularly hard notion to swallow if you realize that I myself am in no way German. Do you deny that he's of
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Polish also has many borrowings from other languages, notably from
English, French, German, Latin and Russian. These influences have been caused by various factors ranging from fascination with other cultures (borrowings from French) to historical processes such as the partitions (borrowings from
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Your claims that he was German could be perceived nationalistic because they carry an implicit claim to by of one ethnic group. They are lots of Poles with German names and
Germans with Polish names-for example General Blaskowitz-especially from people coming from areas of Prussia or Poznań.
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I see you're a friendly chap. Please be courteous, because otherwise, I won't bother interacting with you. His name, forename and surname, are German (not just German sounding); and I would suggest the onus (i.e. burden of proof) is on you Molobo to prove that he isn't of German descent. The
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The recent edits of Molobo could be perceived nationalistic, because they carry an implicit claim by one country to another's territory; I may be wrong. However, there is no reason to
Polonize these names. If the massacre is known in English by its Polish name, link the massacre (i.e.
611:- Fascinating. But there were millions of actual Germans in early twentieth century Poland, I'm curious why you think it unlikely. Well, I'll go to the library and find a source that proves it; you better hope it doesn't turn out that he's actually an ethnic German. :) -
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It's hardly just personal opinion. But the fact you're taking it so seriously (combined with your desire to
Polonize the name of a Lithuanian town) makes me think it likely you'd be upset by the discovery. Maybe I'm wrong. But I won't restore
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Germanophile to give their son his German name in addition, and that Adolf, moreover, was never inclined to have it Polonized. Maybe someone can give me a reason why I'm wrong?
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It doesn't matter though, we don't go trolling through censi in order to find out what to call one town when. That is the name of the town, both in Lithuanian and English
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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Your google hits aren't enough-they can speak about different-post-war period. Or do you believe that names should be give according to current location ? --
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Hmm you found the information that German words were borrowed fascinating-and this is rather basic knowledge.Excuse me If I am doubtfull.
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you have to give good reasoning as to why Ponary, rather than Paneriai or Ponaren, is a good historical name for the period in question.
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I don't think descent is that important. He might be German, or Jewish (I saw one page listing him as a Jewish mathematcian). Anyway,
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good reasoning as to why Ponary, rather than Paneriai or Ponaren, is a good historical name for the period in question. -
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Why ? If he was I don't mind. Why should I care ? Just give a source, before pushing forward your personal opinion. --
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23:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC) If you want to be hypercorrect I will give administrative district of Nazi Germany. --
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But the fact you're taking it so seriously (combined with your desire to Polonize the name of a Lithuanian town)
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Less then 5% difference - both names are acceptable. Perhaps you both would like to take a look at
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This is getting tedious. Stop trying to find ways to Polonize the name. The wiki article title is
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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English. It doesn't matter that it was once partly inhabited by Germans or Poles or whoever. -
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I don't know if the town was inhabited by Poles or Lithuanians-do you have cenzus records ? --
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23:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC) Care to give source on your claims that he was German btw ? --
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How can you be sure that he obviously had a German descent if you don't have a source ?
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Claim to territory ? What are you talking about ? You seem to have some strange ideas. --
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00:01, 30 January 2006 (UTC) Please then give a source that he is of German descent. --
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You can only use the historical name when there is an absence of a common English name
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Jews were killed by the Einsatzkommando 9 and Lithuanians at the Ponary Forest. --
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So it seems that the English accepted name for this period is Ponary. --
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you better hope it doesn't turn out that he's actually an ethnic German.
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is he is listed among 'Polish Great Mathematicians'. Is this enough?--
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228 Ponary massacre -wikipedia 216 Paneriai massacre -wikipedia
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knowledge of the ethnographic situation in modern Polish history
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That's for the massacre, not the town, as I already showed. -
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you believe had legal rights over the town at the time. --
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