974:"Fatherhood", said historian Roderick J. Barman, "gave the emperor the emotional security and the self-confidence so conspicuously missing during his childhood and adolescence." Pedro II found it easier to break out of his social isolation, and he became more open, impartial, and polite. His new confidence and openness allowed him to establish his authority as monarch and take "full control of his life and of the government". Parenthood also produced a marked improvement in his relationship with his wife, Teresa Cristina, whom he had only married in the interests of the empire. The marriage thereafter became a happy one, aided by her faithful dedication, his development of a more stable and mature character, and their growing mutual domestic interests and affection.
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expanded the lead a bit to include the significance of his birth and early death to Brazil. I've also corrected the 2 mistakes you spotted, as I am almost certain that they are typing errors. Even if they are in the sources, the original language isn't
English, and so should be corrected. Finally, I've reworded so that the "successor had to be a man" quote from Barman is no longer needed (and hopefully the reason is more easily understood by readers). I appreciate your having taken the time to review and draw attention to these issues.
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sources and are supported by inline citations where appropriate" and "It follows the style guidelines, including the provision of ... consistent citations: where required by criterion 1c, consistently formatted inline citations using either footnotes ... or
Harvard referencing ..." Such claims ought to have had inline citations, they ought to have come from multiple sources, and this never should've been promoted without them.
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fostered a closer and happier relationship between his parents, who had not married for love". In general, the article says far too much about the psychological impact of this child in
Knowledge (XXG)'s voice; and it's doubtful whether some of these claims are relevant for an encyclopedia even with attribution.
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that more than one citation be used for one paragraph (technically, even a citation a paragraph isn't required, but FA standards are higher than that). You have shown a distinct lack of understanding of
Knowledge (XXG) policy and guidelines, and an unwillingness to show how this is not comprehensive
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That was, however, what the article claimed just a few hours ago, and it's the exact same bit as has been in the article for at least the three-plus years since the point where it was promoted to FA ... a period of time in which you yourself made 23 edits to the article, so you seem to be just a bit
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please give solid examples (say, has someone other than Barman discussed Afonso in detail, perhaps offering opinions which differ from Barman's), rather than simply " I want ... more". "I want more" is not evidence of a lack of comprehensiveness, but rather another way of saying "I don't like it". —
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has again blanked the last 2 sentences of the lead on the rationale that the material is "not backed up in body". Actually the information is indeed in the Legacy section and relevant. I would appreciate a more detailed reason, based in references, as to why the blanked sentences should be left out
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is a good choice to learn more about it. The deaths of Afonso and his brother Pedro explain why the
Emperor Pedro II saw no reason to perpetuate the monarchy. About the source provided, Dr Roderick J Barman is regarded as the authoritative scholar on all matters regarding Pedro II and the Brazilian
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editors" means nothing: no-one opposed and articles are continually put on the front page with one or two (or none, if selected by one of the TFA co-ords). If you don't like that TFA is selected on such a thin consensus, please do join in the selection and consensus building process for future TFAs
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But leaving that aside, and that it's startlingly short for a FA, the article makes a number of unsourced assertions. Beyond that, the highly speculative "Legacy" section -- pinning the downfall of the
Brazilian Empire solely on this child's death -- comes from just a single source, and I'd rather
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I had forgotten to add the wikiproject Brazil template in this article and I also added its classification as "good article". I don't know if that is allowed or if an article has to be reviewed by the nobility group and the wikiproject Brazil separatedly. If that's case, I'm sorry. Revert it, then.
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That is a fine question. Afonso was not included among the members of the order. There is also a painting of his mother from the same period where she is also using a sash of the order, even though she was not a member. Pedro II's sister
Francisca also has a painting wearing the sash, although she
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Thanks, Crisco 1492, for letting me know of this discussion/ Nowhere does the article claims that the monarchy in Brazil fell because of the death of a child. Many are the reasons: military insubordination, growing desire for a republican dictatorship among military, opposition to a woman reigning
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Seconded. I came here with the same reaction. The lead, for instance, is not a summary of the body and makes several claims without any references/attribution like "With the birth of his child, the insecure and shy 19-year-old
Emperor Pedro II became more mature and outgoing. Afonso's arrival also
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Emperor at the age of 5 and declared of age and fit to begin ruling at 14, Pedro II had been an awkward and shy adolescent, suspicious of everyone around him. He was thrust into a thankless and burdensome role as the national symbol for a country that had almost disintegrated during his childhood,
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It is a short article, even because there is not too much to say about the Prince, since he died early. An article does not need to be long to be nominated, but is of great help. Trying to eliminate red links would contribute to evaluate the article, as well as some more details of his childhood.
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They were provided, in the version promoted. There was a minor mishap in that the lead sentences were not removed when the contextual information in the body was removed. If you think this is not comprehensive (i.e. that there is more about Afonso that has been written and could be included) then
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I'm quite familiar with the FA criteria, thank you, and I want rather more in a FA than "He was born, he died," which is why stubs aren't elevated to FA status. While you have those criteria in mind, perhaps you could review the bits which say "Claims are verifiable against high-quality reliable
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about that issue? I personally don't mind the contextual information (i.e. the way things were when this was promoted). @Ravenswing: Length is not a criterion for featured status. Comprehensiveness is. 6k for someone whose biography is essentially "He was born, he died" is not unthinkable. Please
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Thanks to both of you for taking a look at the article. The red links seem to be to persons for whom we can hope that articles may eventually be provided. I have no problem with removing any red link which highlights a person which is likely to never be covered by
Knowledge (XXG), however. I have
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I didn't remove the two last sentences in the lead, but two other sentences. Those two sentences are based on a section that was later removed, see the section named "Removed section" just above here. Also, see previous discussing in this section where there is consensus that those two sentences
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want more sources backing up assertions of that magnitude ... at least in a FA. Respecting that this is a Daily FA is the only reason I don't slap a few tags on the article, but it needs a good bit of work for FA status, or else ought to be promptly downgraded to a "B" or "C" article.
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disingenuous about it. As far as your implication that Dr. Barman is such an unimpeachable authority on the
Brazilian monarchy that anything he says about it should be accepted as fact, terrific: what other authorities say that he is, that being one of the explicit measures of a
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Yes, the info in the lead should hav been removed when the additional information was taken out, but someone didn't: simple as that. The blurb reflects the lead, which is common practice, which is why it was repeated. To answer other points, "the support of just
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of the assertions in the lead, which were substantively unchanged between then and the one I trimmed a couple hours ago. The "Impact of his birth on Pedro II" and "Legacy" sections, each with several similarly highly subjective claims, were both sources
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It's not acceptable for so many such assertions to come from just a single source, however unimpeachable ... yet quite a few articles relating to Brazil in the imperial period (including several FA articles) rely quite heavily on this one book
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I see. A section was removed in December 2011, three months after it was promoted to FA. But then the claims of course should have been taken out of the lead, as well. And they shouldn't have been in the blurb on the front page today.
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As far as Crisco 1492's claim that the article was promoted with those claims having inline citations, it's plain he didn't check before he made it. The version that was promoted is linked above, and the lead
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during his childhood had created in Pedro II a fear of abandonment and a terror of becoming attached to anyone. The birth of his first son gave him a sense of purpose and belonging that had long been missing.
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wasn't a member as well. The Southern Cross is used in Brazil as a synonym for the country itself. Perhaps the Imperial Family used the sash with some similar purpose. This is merely a guessing, though. --
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825:"still half incomprehensible, the which increases their charm." Can you double check that that part of the quote is right? The doesn't seem needed, but maybe it's just a translation modification.
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828:"durin five hours on the 4th of last month" you mean during? Since this and the above are quotes, I can't tell if the typos are actually how they're written in the quote.
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879:(pp.23-24), that's how it is written the sentence "still half incomprehensible, the which increases their charm." About the rest, Astynax fixed everything. Regards, --
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Thanks Lecen. So, unless a RS actually claims this is the sash of the Order itself, perhaps the caption(s) should describe it as "a Southern Cross sash" or similar?
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The lead image claims to show subject with sash of the Order of the Southern Cross, yet this is not mentioned in the Honors section. Explanation? user:davidships
583:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
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Those claims were sourced in the article at its promotion. The relevant section was later removed (you can see it pasted into a talk page section above this one).
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I'm not sure why this wasn't noted at FAR (maybe the standards were more lax back in 2011), but there are no references here. Even a single reference, such as in
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Ravenswing, do you realize that you're being overly aggressive? Why don't you lower you tone? This is a just an article. It's not a life or death situation. --
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Aside from the notes above, the article is pretty good. While short, there's no way around that given the short life. Anyway, here's a couple things to fix:
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The lead should at least have a couple sentences on his birth or death. No need for it to be lengthened a lot but two sentences nonetheless feels short.
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I'm sorry, DrKiernan, but I'm looking at the article version on the edit just before the FA star was added -- interestingly enough, that version was
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by providing evidence that verifiable and pertinent information is lacking. If you feel strongly about this, feel free to bring the article through
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notes that text is often cited in the body and not the lead (and this is acceptable, except in extraordinary cases), and there is no requirement in
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Raven, do you have any evidence someone aside from Barman has discussed Afonso in any detail? One takes what one can get. —
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831:"To be viable his successor had to be a man" Add who stated this. Having just that as a whole sentence in itself feels odd.
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This is far more appropriate in the article regarding Pedro II, not the Prince himseld. I'm going to use this text on
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The article definitely looks better now after the changes, and since all were fixed I will pass this article as a GA.
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This is mostly nitpicking, granted. I'll put the article on hold and will pass it when these issues are addressed.
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monarchy. If anyone here has sources that have different views, please show them so we discuss the matter. --
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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As mentioned in my last edit summary and above, the material in the lead section is later referenced.
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wracked by a long series of widespread provincial rebellions. The death of his parents and his sister
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You mean that nowhere did the article claim that the monarchy fell because of the death of a child
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The two paragraphs of the "Legacy" section has but a single citation at the end of each one.
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Knowledge (XXG):Today's featured article/requests/Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil
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I apologize for my confusion of your edit with the previous reversion.
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From what I can see, this got to be a DFA with the support of just
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How in the merry hell did this get to be a Daily Featured Article?
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
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531:Mid-importance
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234:June 11, 2022
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144:April 2, 2010
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1490:— Preceding
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278:WikiProjects
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175:Not promoted
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163:July 4, 2011
149:
92:please do so
81:
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27:
1392:Crisco 1492
1362:Ravenswing
1299:Crisco 1492
1282:Ravenswing
1219:Crisco 1492
1182:Crisco 1492
1170:Ravenswing
1086:Ravenswing
1030:Barman 1999
1011:Barman 1999
989:Barman 1999
787:transcluded
28:written in
1586:Categories
1535:Davidships
1505:Davidships
681:Disability
676:discussion
644:Disability
216:column on
83:identified
1469:• Astynax
1445:• Astynax
1114:DrKiernan
1032:, p. 126.
1013:, p. 109.
991:, p. 111.
898:Wizardman
865:• Astynax
840:Wizardman
803:Reviewer:
779:GA Review
736:Archive 1
357:Biography
297:Biography
206:Main Page
1565:howcheng
1492:unsigned
1455:Iselilja
1440:Iselilja
1262:SchroCat
1129:Iselilja
1100:Iselilja
806:Tonyjeff
721:Archives
268:FA-class
194:Promoted
43:traveled
1383:WP:CITE
1379:WP:LEAD
1258:WP:TFAR
764:90 days
505:on the
420:History
208:in the
134:Process
39:defense
1388:WP:FAR
478:Brazil
465:Brazil
415:Brazil
274:scale.
232:, and
156:Listed
137:Result
1521:Lecen
1410:Lecen
1323:Lecen
1210:Lecen
1143:yours
968:Paula
948:Lecen
924:Lecen
881:Lecen
858:Fixes
789:from
729:Index
76:is a
35:color
1572:chat
1539:talk
1525:talk
1509:talk
1500:talk
1459:talk
1414:talk
1396:talk
1327:talk
1303:talk
1266:talk
1223:talk
1217:. —
1186:talk
1133:talk
1118:talk
1104:talk
1060:talk
1047:TFAR
1036:help
1017:help
995:help
952:talk
946:. --
928:talk
885:talk
877:here
810:talk
467:and
346:and
131:Date
1256:at
1253:two
1150:any
1075:two
497:Mid
1588::
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1054:--
1003:^
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557::
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418::
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300::
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1574:}
1570:{
1561:—
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57:.
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