Talk:Air France Flight 447/Archive 1

3670:

other communication equipment active. In addition, there could have been specific communication equipment failures within the cockpit as a result of turbulence and wires inadvertently being torn in which the pilots tried to communicate but were unable. The basic assumption here is that a supercell within the tropical convergence was responsible for the automated repair request message being sent, which included a report on an electical failure and cabin depressurization. Those two simultaneous occurrences are unlikely over a region of highly disturbed air by random chance. Since the message is therefore the most likely consequence of spurious system damage, (i.e. the automated repair request system is still active) then one cannot speculate as to which systems were made disfunctional and which system were not. The issue becomes a matter of which communications systems can be confirmed to have sent the messages, simple as that.

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appears to have travelled on her Irish passport (and she doesn't necessarily have to have a British one). Changing the UK to Great Britain would be OR, as we don't know that those listed as British did come from the mainland. The converse of the previous example could have occured, with someone from Northern Ireland travelling on a British passport. Until we know more, we have to assume that an reference to a UK national includes the possibility that they're from Northern Ireland. -

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cross the Atlantic. The turbulences experienced by this other flight must have occured above the Brazilian ground, which is a completely different climate than the middle of the ocean. Henceforth, it seems highly irrelevant. Furthermore, no sources claims a link between the twwo incidents yet. Find me a newspaper that talks about a serious hypothesis linking the two events and I would find it a bit more relevant.

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Early newspaper reports mentioned "text messages", and many people assumed this meant text messages from cell phones. More detailed phrasing indicates these were messages which the plane automatically sent; the crew can probably type messages through the system (they often use it to send messages to the airline) but there is no mention that they used this method. --

2811:; but the BBC map makes it clear that the last contact with the plane was at an unknown location, whereas this map clearly puts a red dot on the location, which is incorrect. Also labeling it "Unknown location" is confusing — a red dot is indicating an unknown location? The BBC map meant to say that the last transmission was received from an unknown location. 683: 699: 5043:. She was born in Spain, had Argentinian parents and therefore had double citizenship, Spanish and Argentinian. She was living in France though. This contradicts the official list from Air France, where crew-members only are French and Brazilian. My guess would be that there she was counted as French. Should we correct the nationality list accordingly? -- 1219: 4531:

normal communication on entering Dakar-controlled airspace was not picked up (and so presumably not sent, for whatever reason). We know that the plane was far out over the Atlantic Ocean when the last communication was received. We know that there has been no signal from, or sighting of, liferafts, despite the surveillance operation.

3891:

I suggest we perform a cleanup of the passenger details. Unless a passenger was clearly notable by wikipedia standards, there is no reason to have personal info like names, age, occupation etc. The fact that a newspaper provided this info does not automatically make it encyclopedic material. This way

3463:

Do you really believe that they sent text messages from the middle of nowhere when the cell tower range is at maximum 70 Km (45 miles)? and even if that was true, "I love you" and "I'm afraid" seem pretty vague and common kind of messages that don't need an emergency to be motivated. dose not seem to

3206:

Yeah, but how would that be significant enough that there should be a photo? Should there be a photo of the White House at the Iraq & Afghanistan war articles because that is where the orders came from? I don't think that the destination of the ACARS report is really that significant to warrant a

2429:

I think Dar88's point was more along the lines that the person from Northern Ireland could concievably count as both, given that anyone born in Northen Ireland is (subject to certain conditions) entitled to citizenship and therefore a passport from both the UK and the Republic. In this case the woman

1901:

The current article says "Although the nationalities of the passengers have not yet been released, most of them are assumed to be French, German and Brazilian" right below an unsourced table indicating the nationality of all the passengers. Either we don't know the nationalities and the table should

4616:

You're missing the point. By using present tense, the article indicates that the plane is still flying (which is impossible). Since the plane went missing yesterday, and the most recent information we have about the flight was from the past (i.e. yesterday), past tense is more correct. Remember, the

3595:

I just read that link. It's an experimental service operating on a single A318 in service over Europe. It has no relationship with the facts under discussion. Much more likely, on an intercontinental A330 the personal entertainment system could offer a SMS/email capability, but AFAIK Air France does

2354:

The BBC has stated 5 British citizens were on board and another source has stated 3 Irish passengers (one of whom was from Belfast). As Belfast is in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) shouldn't this passenger be listed as British, or does the figure of 5 already include here. Could anyone clear this

5082:

It responds for me. It seems due to heavy web traffic to the site, they have put up a simple home page to direct viewers to English and French information about this flight. If you want the "regular" site, look on the lower left section of the box. (Assuming, of course, that you get anything at all

4833:

I don't think we should give to much speculation to the fate of the crew until a more certain conclusion is reached. There is bound to be an official announcment by government or airline officials at some point in the near future as to the officially accepted conclusion of the situation. My primary

3669:

Lots of speculation here and concretized thinking, and while wiki is not the place to speculate, it is possible that the pilots could have been incapacitated, for example, flying into a hailstorm with baseball sized hail could have taken out the pilots or the pilots communication equipment and left

3547:

Speaking purely from a Knowledge (XXG) point of view I don't think it is appropriate to have the mention of the text message simply from the reports of one newspaper. The overwhelming majority of the world's media says nothing about this text message at this point and Knowledge (XXG) should reflect

2767:

Fair enough, Brazil is a Europe-sized country, but even so if indeed two such incidents occurred in Europe, with two A330 aircraft, one of wich leading to catastrofic consequences and the other to a near-crash, that would be highly relevant and notable nevertheless, even if they took place hundreds

2744:

I don't think this information is relevant. Yes, that's two incident in Brazil, but Brazil is the size of Europe, it is an enormous country. Air France 447 disappeared in the middle of the Atlantic, while the other incident happenned in a flight coming from Miami - which, I guess, didn't lead it to

3740:

As the article currently reflects, automated ACARS messages were sent by the plane. These are text messages which usually merely tell the maintenance staff that something needs to be looked at, such as the circuit breaker for the coffemaker opening, or the entertainment system rebooting itself.

3684:

All of the passage above still does not explain how a cellphone could possibly transmit from the middle of the Atlantic. We are not speculating about the automatic transmissions, which were confirmed instead. BTW: I moved and indented the message so to clarify sequence of posts, undo if you don't

1464:

According to an Air France statement, the aircraft crossed through a "thunderous zone with strong turbulence". May I point out that it is getting close to the hurricane season in the United States so is there any indication of what the weather was in the southern side of the Atlantic in the early

5346:

French Knowledge (XXG) on this same page says: S'il s'avérait que ce vol se soit écrasé il s'agirait de la plus grande catastrophe aérienne connue par une compagnie aérienne française. (If it should turn out that this flight should have failed, it would be the largest catastrophe ever known by a

2578:

The ACARS system sends radio transmisions with data about the flight such as: altitude, engine speed, fuel flow, current speed, and several (real time) parameters related to the particular flight... In this case the ACARS is probably transmitting the data via a HF radio since the flight involves

4725:

You seemingly don't get the point. Every day there is an AF 447 flight. On that specific night (May 31st to June 1st), the aircraft (F-GZCP) flew into some problems, and on June 1st, the record was removed. We are discussing on the destiny of F-GZCP and its crew and passengers. Tonight, ANOTHER

4530:

Incorrect. we know a lot more than that. We know that it only had fuel (plus a normal safety allowance) to get from Rio to Paris. We know that that fuel must have run out more than 24 hours ago. We know that it was not detected on any radars on the African side of the Atlantic. We know that the

4173:

I left them cause I assume we could find reliable sources documenting their notability, even if they have no article at the moment. However this is just an assumption and things being so hectic at the moment, I don't have time for further research, it's quite possible that they are not notable.

4061:

We have already two confirmed cases of dual passport holders, one the brazilian heir and the other a woman. The solution by Sigge365 to add these discrepancies as numbers in parentheses looks ok to me, I have also added a footnote explaining this. I suggest we keep it this way, unless of course

3792:

The article and statement I have just referred to are both about text messages to family members and are not related to the ACARS messages. (I'm not aware of any dispute about those... sorry, I suspect this section of the talk page may have become unclear now the disputed portion of the article

2039:

They are both correct. If you look more closely at the first reference on airfleets.net it shows you both dates. Aircraft first flew on 25/02/2005 - but an aircraft's first flight is part of the manufacturing process. The source also notes that the aircraft was delivered to Air France on

4834:

point was that since the primary events of this article are now days old, much of the article should be converted from present tense to past tense - not in the sense that we implying they people are dead, but in the sense we are implying the events are not happening at this moment. —

2129:

Air France est en mesure de confirmer les nationalités des passagers qui se trouvaient à bord du vol AF 447 du 31 mai 2009, disparu entre Rio de Janeiro et Paris-Charles de Gaulle. Cette liste a été constituée sur la base des informations fournies par les autorités brésiliennes.

4232:

This is in the "Reaction and search" section. Maybe it should say "en route to the suspected crash site" or something like that, but I'm not sure what's the best way to go. I don't think it is known where (if) the plane hit the water, and if so whether it did so in one piece.

4146:

Further to that... are the execs and conductor mentioned noteworthy either? They don't have their own wikis, so presumably they should come down too? -or is this just because wiki coverage of those areas isn't as complete as it might be for a famous composer in the EU or US?

2972:

Whoever removed that, THANK YOU. It was insensitive and frankly, stupid to put it there. To the person who wrote that, could you please consider what you type? Hundreds of people are mourning right now and desperate for information, please do not add irrelevant information.

4730:

a scheduled flight. It is scheduled today, and it will be scheduled tomorrow. On June 1st, one specific instance of the AF 447 flight, operated by F-GZCP, encountered the problems we are discussing. Is it clearer? I don't know how to say this in yet another way, I'm sorry.

4458:

Exactly. More to the point, we do not know the present state of the passengers or crew, and Knowledge (XXG) deals with facts that have already happened. Present tense is frowned on, as it becomes non-present event very quickly. Past tense is pragmatic, and reflects what we

1417:

The flight captain had a record of 11,000 flight hours and had already flown 1,700 hours on Airbus A330/A340s. Of the two first officers, one had flown 3,000 flight hours (800 of which on the Airbus A330/A340) and the other 6,600 (2,600 on the Airbus A330/A340</quote:

2284:

That's been done, and then I bunched the countries with 1 passenger only together as one table line to make the table shorter - though it messes up the sorting mechanisms a bit. Then, someone bunched the 2's, the 3's, the 9's... I think this overdoing it. What's the best

323:

What if the sources are themselves speculating? I could draw a similarity between this and the Qantas Learmonth incident in 2008, also involving an a330, thankfully the pilots regained control. But I can't suggest this connection because a news wire has not speculated?

4000:

I'm not doubting the Ministry, these are probably cases of dual nationality. We still have to stick to the official Air France list. I'm trying to figure out a better solution, but we definitely cannot have more people on the list than there were actually on the plane.

3640:

Definitely agree. A cellphone could not transmit from there, and in a turbulence and an emergency the passenger entertainment systems would be the first ones to go, along with any SMS or email sending capabilities. If it's not an hoax, it will be heavily reported soon.

3364:

I think you misunderstand. Including the image is potentially okay provided there are no copyright issues and it actually show something useful, but using the image as reference to describe the weather conditions or discussing the conditions shown in the image is not.

3907:

Agree. I already stated that in an edit couple of hours earlier where I removed one of the passenger details (which was placed back soon again by others). Otherwise where to stop? I understand that for relatives every person is important but this is an encyclopedia.

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It's true that the registration should redirect here. But the point is that it's sloppy journalism to equate the flight number with the aircraft that happened to be operating the flight on a particular occasion. The media get it wrong all the time; why should we?

1333:

I think you are right in saying that there were a total of 12 crew, "3 cockpit and 9 cabin crew". I don't see anywhere written that there were 3 technicians aboard, though I did hear Dutch television mention the technicians. Perhaps they got it from this article?

4745:

And this goes directly to my point. Some number of editors here are assuming that 447 does not exist as a route any more. Why that assumption is being made I do not know, but perhaps it is because it isn't listed on the US version of the site. However, the

3166:

The Air France control center received the reports from the AF 447 aircraft systems (the automatic signals to the operations center sent by the A330's on-board computer) - Since the HQ is at CDG airport, I'm assuming that the operations center is in the

2393:

Air France said they had 3 Irish on the flight. Any citizen of Northern Ireland can have an Irish or British passport, Air France gets the nationality of each passenger by their passport. So I think the Northern Irish passenger used an Irish passport.

3015:

Yes. But I see "United Kingdom", "Wales", and "Northern Ireland" all listed. When I last checked, Wales and Northern Ireland were parts of the United Kingdom. If for some reason Wales and NI deserve listing separately, then so do England and Scotland.

2545:

Does anyone have information on the system that was used to report data back to Air France regarding the condition of the aircraft? I've never heard of a plane doing this before—only after-the-fact black box data—so I figure it merits a mention.

1954:

Hungarian media told there were no Hungarian passengers on the plane despite the fact web sources claim there were names on the list that seemed to be Hungarian but their owners may not have Hungarian citizenship. Somebody, any comments, facts?

2408:

Yes, I am presuming that the term 'Irish' being used refers to anyone from the island of Ireland and 'British' as anyone from 'Great Britain', if so UK should be changed to Great Britain in this article shouldn't it as both sources

1917:

Or we know some of their nationalities, and they haven't been released officially. As it's an Air France jet going from Brazil to France... it should be easy to source the assumption that most people would be French or Brazilian.

4255:

I agree, until it has been at least days or we find wreckage for sure this should be treated as a disapearance and not a crash, we certainly don't know the location of the site it may have crashed at in any precision at all.

1291:

for around half an hour from around 0730 - it was tracked as AF 444 on the way over yesterday but never appeared this morning. This is unsurprising and probably not useful for the article, but interesting nonetheless. --

3138:

Would someone in the Paris area mind taking a photo of the Air France headquarters by CDG airport? Because the operations center received the signals from the aircraft, a photo of the headquarters may be relevant here.

1317:

I think the Air France statement translates more correctly as "9 cabin crew and 3 cockpit crew", but I am not sure if "cockpit crew" is quite the right terminology, or if it is correct to refer to them all as "pilots".

3517:

a) It would be technically impossible to send a text message from a regular GSM phone in an airplane 30,000 feet in the air above international waters. Perhaps satellite phones could work but just how widespread are

4849:

In respect for the mourning of the relatives and friends of the victims, we inform the press that they will not be able to attend the inter-religious ceremony to be held inside Notre Dame cathedral tomorrow at 4pm.

2688:

Don't think so. That would be suggestive. It suggests that the A330 is bad in dealing with turbulence, though it underlines that strong turbulence can cause loss of control of the plane with injuries to passengers

1444:

I'm not sure, but maybe someone could check the names of the co-pilots again. Especially Urs Zimmermann reminds me of the Captain of the Swissair Flight 111. I could be a coincidence that they have the same names.

4793:! Also, right now, if you go to the US version of the site, you cannot even enter Brazil as a country to search. But if you check for flight status, there is a flight 447 scheduled for tonight at 7 pm local time. 3713:

Negative, they need line-of-sight to the sky, and are impossible to operate in an airtight, metallic airframe. The only phone which works on board an A330 in the middle of the ocean is the on board phone service.

1063:. The flight was meant to enter the Senegalese ATC zone, which fits the map, and the French press spoke of "nothing from the Spanish radars, nothing from the Morrocan radars" while not mentioning the Portuguese. 3524:

c) If the passengers knew something was wrong and had the ability to contact the outside world about it, then what explains the silence of the pilots who had access to far more advanced communication equipment?

4340:

reason to talk about the plane or its passengers in the present tense. Jean-Louis Borloo pointed it out quite succinctly: it only carried a given amount of fuel which would have run out more than 24 hours ago.

1818:

What's your point? The only notable instance of this flight is this instance. The only notability for this plane is this instance of this flight. The only notable instance of this tailnumber is this plane. So

3562:

And then there is that... those reports come only from a few minor media outlets (and seem to originate with just one) while the vast majority of the world's media treat these claims with healthy scepticism.

1158:

Ah I see what I did here. I pressumed the BBC were using local British time (UTC+1), so I minused one hour thinking that would be UTC, however the BBC were using UTC/GMT time. My bad, I will now fix the map.

3296:

If the string of disturbances at the bottom of this map is connected to the likely area of disappearance, we can use this with a description. Is there any similar image on the other side of Atlantic Ocean?--

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When you say "keeps adding it back", do you mean the one ocassion that I reverted the removal by an IP who did not leave an edit summary? Is talking about vandalism warnings perhaps a little heavy handed?

460:

CNN just brought a bulletin that the automated message not only reported an electrical failure but also loss of cabin pressure. (I didn't want to put this in the article because it isn't confirmed yet.)

5298:

Note that "sighting location" and "downed location" are different places. It was 28 hours between when the aircraft went down and the debris was sighted, during which time the debris could have moved "

4918:

Not quite, they've found wreckage in roughly the right place but don't want to say yet that it's from the plane (instead of having been tossed off a passing cargo ship, etc.). So "wreckage", yes; for "

2617:

Not really satisfied with the satellite image. What does it want to say? Is the image understandable for every reader? As far as I can see it also doesn't cover the most important region completely.

2234:

Air France met tout en œuvre pour soutenir les familles et les proches : une assistance médicale et psychologique a été mise en place aux aéroports de Paris-Charles de Gaulle 2 et de Rio de Janeiro.

5369:

Our article already says "Given the official presumtion of no survivors, the accident is the worst in the history of Air France, and would be tied as the 21st worst accident in aviation history.".

1754:

are labelled "GMT", but given that BBC is written for a British audience, might this be a mistake/confusion for BST? Are the times in this article labelled "GMT" supposed to be for GMT or BST?

634:

According to Air France's flight status page, future flights for AF447 (i.e. departing after 1 June) between Rio and Paris appear to now be operating as AF443. Is this worth noting somewhere?

361:

No, it is not original research, it is speculation that the incident seems peculiarly similar and COULD potentially be related. Give it 5 minutes and the media will make the same speculation.

1352:

The AF statement says "L’équipage est composé de 12 navigants : 3 navigants techniques et 9 navigants commerciaux." I suspect "technicians" is a mis-translation of "navigants techniques".

2916:

I think it would be nice if there was a PNG version available (preferably at four times the size of the SVG). Makes it easier for people who don't have Inkscape to view the map in full.

4956:

Hungarian media told the wrecks have been found in the Atlantic a few hours ago. Also a Brazilian man is said to have seen fire on the horizon or on the sky (I do not exactly remember).

1638:. What's not clear though is how they're listed (here and by Air France), the article specifies that two live in Brazil one in Norway (probable dual citizenship on at least 2 or all 3). 2237:

La compagnie a également mis en place un numéro d’appel spécial à l’attention des familles des passagers. Elle les informe, à leur demande, de l’éventuelle présence à bord d’un proche.

4295:. There has been no wreckage found, and it is not appropriate to be speculating. Phrases that begin with "if" are a good indication that we shouldn't be including the information. 3282:

The map is too far north. If I read correctly, the plane never contacted Senegal. The boundary between Brazil and Senegal FIRs is probably somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic.

4086:

Details about the different passengers should appear by nationality in the default order as in the table (sorted first by number of victims, then alphebetically by nationality) --

2703:

yes we should link to this if there is a WP for it... doesn't have to mention turbulence but yes when there are 2 seperate a330 incidents in brazil within a week, that's notable.

4754:. We may be very confident that Air France will eventually retire this flight number, but until it's reported in reliable sources, we really can't make that judgment on our own. 2299:

Which source tells us (as someone wrote in the article) that one crew member is Brazilian (the other 11 being French)? (I haven't checked al sources; it may well be there!!!)--

4575:

Any reasonable person would understand the use of the past tense to refer to the crew and passengers: that you object suggests that you are either unreasonable, stupid, or so

3872:

There were four Hungarians onboard. They were two children and two adults. In memoriam (don't know how to say in English). You're right, there were victims from 32 countries.

4881:. Which is what started this thread... This thread seems entirely pointelss now as it is all but confirmed now that the debris is confirmed to be from an air france plane. — 4484:

know right now is very simply this: the plane is missing. Nothing more, nothing less. Even with speculative, unconfirmed reports of debris having been found, and even if we

2768:

of kms apart from each other. Same planes, same circumstances (severe weather/turbulence), few thousand kms one from the other. That should be worth mentioning, I assume.

3625:

after the Helios flight accident. Various media outlets had reported this story as genuine before the truth became known. I vote we keep it out of the article for now. --

1680:

Hey guys check this out, I am getting reports from some Brazilian Blogs, that Fishermen saw flashing lights in night sky over the said route of this particular Flight.

2240:

Numéros de téléphone réservés aux familles et aux proches 0800 800 812 depuis la France, 0800 881 20 20 depuis le Brésil, et + 33 1 57 02 10 55 depuis les autres pays.

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The details should be deleted, they are not encyclopedic. Just report that x number of nationality y were on the plane. The details on the crew on the otherhand...

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indicates that it's still in operation. Official statements say that the plan has most likely crashed, and that's the most accurate information we have to date.

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b) These messages seem very vague and could have been sent without any specific emergency, one would expect more specific messages if something was going wrong.

4726:

AIRCRAFT will fly the same route. There is still an AF 447 flight, you can check on the Air France website as I just did. So the correct phrase is that AF 447

1104:

Actually we have two waypoints INTOL ( 1° 21' 39S 32° 49' 53W ) at 22:33 and TASIL waypoint (4° 0' 18N 29° 59' 24W) ETA 50min later, at 23:20 Brasilia time. --

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The route map and description are wrong. GIG-CGD doesn't go anywhere near the azores, it flies thru cape verde, madeira islands, galicia and gulf of biscay.

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Sweden's Embassy in Paris has confirmed that there were 3 swedish citizens aboard. One of them was a resident of Norway, the other two residents of Brazil:

2941:

Both the BBC map and the Knowledge (XXG) map based upon it are inaccurate, given the position given in the system message. Please change or remove. -- John

4124:

I took down the items that didnt mention noteworthy individuals from this section. From your comments, it seemed pretty black and white, so I hope it's ok

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has a link to a UK satellite view, which apparently is non-free, for "The location of intense storms off the coast of Brazil at the time of the incident".

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Nay. AF 443 is another flight, not a substitution. More likely, they are just cancelling AF 447 for some days. Or, can you give a pointer to this news? --

2269:

As we do have official report, someone should change the list of passengers, which is not correct. (official report should be "higher level" than BBC) --

3965:

Yes Ferengi But if the Ministry for Foreign Affairs has confirmed 3 citizens on the plane from Sweden they must be right, I know the maths dont add up

3578: 2636: 1118:

The times in the image Air_France_Flight_447_path.png are wrong, they are not local times nor UTC times. They also contradict with the article's text.

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Some reports have said that the following ships are heading towards the debris field, so their positions could indicate where the debris field is at:

2666:

Should the article mention the near crash of another A330 (this time flying for TAM airlines) last week due to turbulence while flying over Brazil?

2451:

Why is the Welsh passenger listed separately from the United Kingdom passengers? Did Wales get granted independence from the UK and I didn't notice?

2490:

on a forum, French media is reporting that debris has been found. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but I'll look for his source(s) now.

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BBC are probably right. What other source is stating 3 Irish? It's a bit clumsey to include the North and South when it comes to nationalities.

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OK. It's not vandalism though, it's more like original research. But if other sources start making this point it can legitimately be put back.

4538:, but I think this user is also being insolent in believing that Knowledge (XXG) policies are superior to what goes on in the outside world. 3564: 3526: 2673: 1632: 5453: 5445: 5440: 5017: 2980: 2826:

Map clarifies a lot. To solve the problem I would suggest to replace the label 'Unknown location' by 'Assumed location last transmission'.

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Is there a confirmed report for the number of passengers? I am reading 215, 216, 26, 228 and 240 inclusive or exclusive of 12 crewmen... ?

79: 71: 66: 5016:) 16:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC) "26Noticias" says the same... A woman from the crew was argentinian with spanish AND argentinian citicenzhip.-- 4204:

I took out the names, but left the descriptions. In case they are sufficiently encyclopedic and have a WP lemma, we can still add them. --

742:

This is a request to repair the map of Brazil, AFAIK... since it's too small to use in the wikicoding he's using for the island location.

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Something is wrong in the nationality list, either the subtotal of 9 or that 4 nationalities missing 3 citizens each. RGDS Alexmcfire

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still a scheduled flight between those two points. The specific AF 447 flight which departed 36 hours ago is not flying anymore. --

4411:

Non-stupidity is also a primary policy: you are not required to check your brain in at the door when you login to Knowledge (XXG).

2062:

Do we know that the plane has crashed? Shouldn't this be set to unknown as well? Of course it is very probable that it has though.

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article and its correction is written in portuguese, is there a verifyable English references, or can it be translated to English?

932:

has also map that looks a bit different. A better map is needed. Maybe a bit zoomed in with place names. Anyone have draft ready?

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I saw the a route map on CNN this morning and I would say it definitely is not accurate. The BBC route map looks more believable

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This is already noted in the article... but not as an explanation for a crash, as there's no mention of it having come down yet

3945:

It's easy, if the passenger is notable enough to have an article, they can be mentioned by name. If not, no mention necessary.

3240:

I agree, but are you sure that you are just not picture happy? Why does the ExpressJet article need the Continental building?--

383:

I agree it's ridiculous. Just create a blog, post it there, then you can post it here. It's obviously non-sense. I'd post it.

4859:

or is that still not enough for the people who think that Knowledge (XXG) policies are more powerful than the laws of nature?

1422:

http://alphasite.airfrance.com/flight-air-france-447-rio-de-janeiro-paris-charles-de-gaulle/press-releases/?L=1#communique2492

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Not sure about whether we should mention the bomb threat - linking it to this incident is kind of speculative at this point.

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Official statement says 216 Passengers, 12 Crewmen (126 Men, 82 Women, 7 Children, 1 Infant, 9 Flight Attendants, 3 Pilots)

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this balance of weight; especially as this is a currently unfolding event we have to be careful what we put on the article.

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There were four Hungarians onboard. They were two children and two adults. In memoriam (don't know how to say in English).

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Since I can't find any evidence that the two incidents are related, I think mention of the bomb threat should be removed.

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is a fair "official" pronouncement of death, and a far higher standard of proof than is usually required for WP articles.

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Already covered in the article ("orange dots" on the water last night). We don't have anything verifiable to that that it

2594: 2553: 1670: 4496:. It is quite incorrect to state that "Knowledge (XXG) deals with facts that have already happened" - Knowledge (XXG) is 1374:

The correct translation is "There were 12 flight crew members: 3 pilots and 9 flight attendants." as issued by Air France

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know the fate of the crew and passengers. To state otherwise is not consistent with what Knowledge (XXG) is all about.

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Seeing as this is still being swapped around, I've centralised the many simultaneous previous discussions about it on

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Yeah, it is almost unrespectful, even. There will be a celebration "in memory" soon, as shown on AF official site. --

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The chances of anybody searching for AIRFRANS447 is probably zero. Why stop if you nothing else to do you could have

4707:. Saying that there is still an AF 447 flight is therefore just speculation, and that's why it should be changed to 4317:

I must disagree slightly. The events should be refered to in the past tense if they occured in the past. The pilots

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Could you make the texts a bit larger then latest version. Since the text where to small to be read in the article.

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A flight (e.g. AF447), and the aircraft operating it on a particular occasion (e.g. F-GZCP) are not the same thing

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we could end up having data on all 228 passengers, which is obviously not what the purpose of this article is. --

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The official statistics about nationalities has been announced by AirFrance. The statistics need to be updated:

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Actually, AF 447 flies only on Sundays and Tuesdays, so be careful when you check for its existence or not. --

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Please could someone clarify exactly what "orange points" are and why its relevant that a pilot spotted them,

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Air France adresse ses sincères condoléances aux familles et aux proches des passagers et membres d’équipage.

1937: 1691: 4940:: "'The search is continuing because it's very little material in relation to the size ,' Col Amaral added." 4244: 3824: 3675: 3586: 3469: 3061: 2756: 2471: 2333:

http://www.corriere.it/esteri/09_giugno_02/scheda_italiani_a_bordo_fee84946-4f5e-11de-9f09-00144f02aabc.shtml

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Most (if not all) of those points are already in the article. But even when taken all together, we still do

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would allow me to buy a ticket on Flight 447 next week if I knew more Portuguese. This is the problem with

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No, I am actually talking specifically about sections that are no longer even part of the article. As in

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know the fate of the crew and passengers. It doesn't matter that it seems like beating a dead horse, but

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it would be interesting if someone can place the approximate location of possible sightings on the map

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and committed to furthering the goals of the project by following them to the greatest degree possible.

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NB : Nous demandons aux journalistes de ne pas appeler ces numéros réservés aux familles et aux proches

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I'm pretty sure that the BBC is correct. Who is the dumb ass that is removing the time of the events?

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That one appears to be a simple straight line plotted over a Mercator projection. I'd be suspicious...

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a flight. The plane isn't flying anymore, because that would be impossible. So the only thing that is

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certain flight experience at the time of the flight, and that can be said difinitivly. They may still

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denying it, stating that the newspaper had come to them with the theory and they had dismissed it. --

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be right dose it. I think it should be removed. one mention in a news paper is not a lot to base it on

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The correct is 3 cockpit crew that were 1 pilot and 2 co-pilots as reports in the Portuguese media.

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article since it is customary to include a photo of the corporate headquarters in company articles.

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I've just removed this reference again, for the same reasons as outlined by everyone else here. --

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The map of Brazil is truncated in the East - anyone feel like fixing this, as I'm signing off now?

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By late morning, AF447 had been removed from the list of flights on the Aéroports de Paris website

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will inform you that satellite phone services usually have text message capabilities. Will remove

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Perhaps some of the passengers hold more than one citizenship what might lead to some confusion.--

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One French government official said that there were more than 20 German passengers on the plane. —

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a flight until it disappeared. Since we don't know anything about its fate after it disappeared,

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If you had an Irridium, or an Immarsat phone, would it work on a plane? as they are satphones...

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shows the weather along the projected track of flt 447 and is a free image. You'll note that the

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http://alphasite.airfrance.com/flight-air-france-447-rio-de-janeiro-paris-charles-de-gaulle/?L=1

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I've added an edit note to the article. Any further instances of addition can be reverted and a

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I've uploaded another map - please revert if you feel the previous one was better. Thank you.

2014:"The Airbus A330-200, registration F-GZCP, first flew on 25 February 2005" with a reference to 911:

It looks different from the one that HLN uses (HLN - CNN Headline News, US cable news network)

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There is precedent for this. And what do you mean they're not needed? The ICAO airline code is

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Agreed, should be removed as no known connection, but someone keeps adding it back. Rgds, --

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Surely, since nobody has yet been officially pronounced dead, it can't be the deadliest. --

5104:

There's Portuguese information on the English page (so the page is English and Portuguese)

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Well, it may not belong in this particular article. Still, it would be great for the main

2550: 2510: 2399: 1907: 1883: 1732: 1710: 1537: 1277: 1263: 1105: 1064: 439: 5383:"Worst" is an opinion, but "deadliest" is a fact, so I replaced "worst" with "deadliest" 5292: 4924:

wreckage" it's probably best to wait for a moment (as the major news outlets are doing).

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No, you can't add that, as it is original research, and against Knowledge (XXG) policies.

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Good idea I think. Speculation doesn't help at the current moment. Shall it be removed?--

5126:

A ref is broken in the third last paragraph of the "Passenger and crew details" section.

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IT's a US government image with a timestamp, and silhouetted countries on it, what's so

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is available as a illustration of the weather close to the time of the loss of signals.

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Clarify, he deny's the ACARS was sent or that text messages to family members was sent.

3366: 3342:-y about it? The article already talks about weather in the Atlantic over the equator. 3188: 3076: 2876: 2812: 2527: 2015: 1993: 1956: 1607: 1466: 897: 705: 610: 224: 164:

How about removing it at least until some other source suggests a possible connection?

4493: 4384: 4292: 5170:"It is the deadliest accident (in terms of lives lost) in the history of Air France" 5131: 4902:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aGqVhPoRLAtM&refer=europe

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Hungarian media claim debris have been found in the Atlantic Ocean a few hours ago.

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Air France communiquera d’autres informations dès que celles-ci seront disponibles.

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Sorry, I had to remove this map from the infobox due to inaccuracy. It's based on

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says its been operation since April 2005. Not sure which is more reliable to use.

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should redirect here... but the common name is AF447 (or some variation on that).

5420:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Let's wait for official publication passenger lists; and beware of speculation.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

3760:

quoted a Ronaldo Jenkins as their source. The organisation he works for later

613:

and many more combinations that might one day be used by somebody as a search!

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That's not the only thing which is verifiable from multiple reliable sources!

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A generic illustration of the inter-tropical convergence zone is available...

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Has anyone given the precise location of the sighting, even in textual form?

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that you regard Knowledge (XXG) as a separate universe from the real world.

3581:. It's not certain though that the system was in operation on the aircraft. 3478:

Can you provide links to where they say the passengers sent text messages?--

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shows the island of Fernando de Noronha in relation to mainland Brazil...

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speculation on text messages from article. (oh, someone beat me to it.)

1763:

I think everything's been correct. BBC is well aware of the difference.

4287:, etc...) until we have verifiable sources. It does not matter what we 491: 5187:

Of course it can. People don't have to be pronounced dead to be dead.

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Why refering to the media if you have Air France as a primary source?

567:

to reference the flight??? All the suggested redirects are fine under

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at that link; I do but that doesn't mean you are able to get there.)

2091:

It is surely not in the air by now as it must have run out of fuel.

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Problem: how do we know that's the actual route it would have flown?

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There is another possible explanation: that I'm familiar with the

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I think I have fixed your concerns and will now add the map back.

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Spain has a CASA 235 maritime patrol craft operating over the area

5321:

CNN has a map indicating the approximate location of the debris:

2331:

Of 11 Italians, 10 are from Italy and 1 is Italian-Brasilian see

775:

File:Orthographic projection centred over Fernando de Noronha.png

5268:"650 km northeast of Fernando de Noronha Island" (this article) 4900:

Bloomberg is reporting that Brazil found some of the wreakage:

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There is no feasible scenario where the plane hasn't crashed.

3860:

It is sad, but victims are from something like 32 countries.--

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Talk:Air France Flight 447/Image discussions#1 June 2009 13.31

302:. If something is verifiable, then of course it may be added. 25: 4291:

or even what the president of France believes. Remember that

2466:

Afraid so. What rock has you been living under my friend? --

1258:

Transmission coordinates N3.5777 W30.3744 are now known per

803:

Reqdiagram tag removed - requested images on main page now.

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Now I have provided a source (NYT) in English explaining.--

1416:

Also this info is being issued by Air France <quote: -->

1276:

Relevant Aeronautical chart of South Atlantic available at

5008:

crew Clara Mar Amado is Argentine with dual Citizenship --

4488:

that said debris is from this plane, we most certainly do

4279:

Please do not change the article to past tense (the plane

3922:

Another issue lies with the table - the totals are wrong.

1881:

Talk:Air_France_Flight_447/Image_discussions#1_June_15.26

1730:

Talk:Air_France_Flight_447/Image_discussions#1_June_14.03

1708:

Talk:Air_France_Flight_447/Image_discussions#1_June_14.02

1902:

go, or we do and the paragraph below should be revised.

421:

According to AP the plane hit turbulence before crashing

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Some tower cumulus nimbus over there zone this night --

1752:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

1635:

have confirmed 3 Swedish citizens were on the flight

868:

Air France publish route maps, that's how we know. --

4500:about facts but rather verifiable information from 3187:I don't think this would add much to the article. 1631:Yea, but there needs to be some clarification, the 1608:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article5278161.ab

5122:Broken ref in "Passenger and crew details" section 2482:Debris found (uncertain, and entirely unconfirmed) 1533:Chinese state media said there are eight chinese? 4494:Knowledge (XXG) is about verifiability, not truth 4293:Knowledge (XXG) is about verifiability, not truth 4534:I'm sorry if people think I am insolent towards 2579:extended overwater operations, my best guess! 5342:The worst airline disaster yet known in France 5263:80 km east of the plane's expected flight path 4621:a flight. We cannot verify that it still is. 1897:Contradiction regarding passenger nationality 1536:Maybe some Chinese holding two passports? --- 298:The edit note specifically states not to add 8: 966:. IT looks close to the one CNN is using... 4380: 3266:File:NESDIS Atlantic Ocean 1 June 0000Z.jpg 2633:File:NESDIS Atlantic Ocean 1 June 0000Z.jpg 682: 5210:Being the object of a memorial service in 4325:it, but that is unknown and speculative. — 3432:Here are good radar photos of the location 1702:File:Air_France_Airgus_A330-200_F-GZCP.jpg 1056:is also using a route map very similar to 517:Is there policy or precedent for this? -- 2540: 839:Found one on the French Knowledge (XXG). 5306:to say that, it's since been edited out) 3056:The orange points obviously were fire. ( 2717:The TAM turbulence was in the region of 2415:state 5 'British' and 3 'Irish' people. 2122:Paris, 01 juin 2009 - 19h41 heure locale 1664:This contains all the relevant details. 3207:photo. But that is just my opinion...-- 5418:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4345:is not a substitute for common sense. 698: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 5063:Hello, is it just me or is the whole 3577:Don't forget AF's OnAir service, see 2999:They look great, not at all messy. - 7: 5141:Infobox image discussion centralised 4617:only thing we can verify is that it 3071:Source claiming orange spots = fire 2541:Aircraft's data reporting mechanism? 1852:For better or worse, we're bound by 1633:Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs 1606:2 swedish women and 1 child Source: 4062:someone has a better suggestion. -- 3793:appears to have stayed removed) -- 3411:Here is some good weather analysis 2251:http://alphasite.airfrance.com/s01/ 1986:That is official now, 4 Hungarian. 1140:Removed from page, new map needed. 962:Found this on Portuguese wikinews: 817:Any images available of the route? 4974:the wreckage, just that there was 4228:"En route to the crash site (???)" 3596:not have that feature on board. -- 24: 4655:is inappropriate. Using the word 5403: 4387:is one of our primary policies. 3459:Text messages over the Atlantic? 1655:Text of the Air France Statement 1287:Normally AF 447 would have been 1217: 697: 681: 674: 541:No, they are not really needed. 29: 4844:You mean something like this: 3756:An update on this issue. The 3434:and I think released by NASA. 2113:Air France as a Primary Source 1667: 1033:Well... that's similar to the 1: 4383:. We are an encyclopedia and 3924: 3317: 3153:How would that be relevant?-- 2897: 724: 179:I think that would be best. 5302:". (drat, well, the article 3134:Air France HQ: Photo request 2875:Looks great and thank you! 813:08:11, 25 January 2011 (UTC) 88:Search and Rescue Operations 3887:Passsenger details' cleanup 2438:would like to hear from you 1279:see waypoint on path UN866 5472: 5067:website currently down? -- 3393:file:ITCZ january-july.png 2011:According to the article: 1313:"9 crew and 3 technicians" 1008:14:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 209:It has now been removed. 18:Talk:Air France Flight 447 4703:No. As the article says, 3869:06:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3216:04:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3162:03:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2609:05:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1058:File:Arte voo AF 447 .jpg 1035:File:Arte voo AF 447 .jpg 964:File:Arte voo AF 447 .jpg 5393:22:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5379:22:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5363:21:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5334:22:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5313:21:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5252:21:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5226:21:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5203:21:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5183:21:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5165: 5161:20:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5136:19:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5114:22:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5100:16:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5077:16:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5053:17:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 5026:16:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4988:16:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4966:15:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4948:14:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4932:14:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4913:14:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4886:20:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4867:20:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4839:17:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4810:18:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4785:18:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4771:18:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4741:18:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4721:17:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4699:16:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4681:15:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4669:15:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4631:15:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4612:15:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4587:15:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4571:15:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4546:15:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4525:14:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4473:14:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4454:14:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4436:14:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4419:14:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4404:14:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4367:13:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4353:13:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4330:13:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4312:12:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4266:12:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4249:12:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4214:13:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4184:12:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4157:12:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4134:11:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4114:11:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4096:10:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4072:12:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4041:11:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 4011:11:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3986:10:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3955:10:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3937:10:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3927: 3925: 3918:09:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3902:09:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3882:14:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3856:06:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3829:17:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3803:15:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3785:15:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3774:15:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3751:14:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3724:16:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3709:13:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3695:13:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3680:13:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3665:11:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3651:11:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3635:09:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3606:13:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3591:10:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3573:09:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3558:09:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3535:09:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3510:07:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3487:06:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3453:19:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3425:17:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3406:10:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3375:10:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3352:10:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3330:09:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3320: 3318: 3311:References? Looks like 3306:07:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3292:06:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3278:04:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3249:05:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3234:04:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3197:04:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3177:04:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3149:02:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3124:11:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3108:11:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3090:02:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3066:02:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3051:01:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3026:22:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 3010:01:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2989:00:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2962:21:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2935:16:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2910:12:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2900: 2898: 2885:02:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2863:23:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2836:23:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2821:22:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2784:20:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2761:11:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2735:14:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2713:07:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2699:22:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2682:22:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2656:22:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2627:22:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2600:No, probably satellite-- 2595:05:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2573:21:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2554:21:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2536:14:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2519:12:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2500:20:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2476:16:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2461:22:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2442:22:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2425:20:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2404:20:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2389:20:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2365:19:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2345:18:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2323:21:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2309:19:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2295:19:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2279:18:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2265:17:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2107:06:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2072:17:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2050:17:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2032:17:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2002:14:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1980:17:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1965:16:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1942:16:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1928:16:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1912:16:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1892:20:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1865:01:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1848:16:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1833:16:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1813:15:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1793:15:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1773:14:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1759:14:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1741:20:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1719:20:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1696:14:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1676:13:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1649:22:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1625:20:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1546:17:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1529:13:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1515:13:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1492:14:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1475:13:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1455:08:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1439:15:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1411:15:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1386:23:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1362:13:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1344:13:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1328:13:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1308:13:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1272:18:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1244:20:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1200:19:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1178:19:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1150:19:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1134:19:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1114:18:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1071:16:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1047:15:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 991:14:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 976:14:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 942:14:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 921:14:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 906:14:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 892:14:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 878:13:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 864:13:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 849:13:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 827:12:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 787:14:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 752:14:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 737:12:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 727: 725: 659:18:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 644:12:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 623:19:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 581:13:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 551:13:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 533:13:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 512:12:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 471:16:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 448:12:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 434:12:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 399:22:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 377:08:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 356:18:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 340:13:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 312:11:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 294:11:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 280:11:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 266:11:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 251:11:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 239:vandalism warning issued 233:11:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 219:11:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 204:10:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 189:10:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 174:10:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 159:10:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 144:10:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 110:21:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 5031:Is also confirmed here 4982:The Hand That Feeds You 4467:The Hand That Feeds You 4430:The Hand That Feeds You 2803:an old version of this. 2799:Sorry, I had to remove 2723:location on Google Maps 5033:primeraplanmundial.com 4854: 3886: 3621:Also don't forget the 3388: 3262: 2804: 2248: 1750:The times given here: 1101: 959: 835: 773:If anyone wants it... 770: 502:should redirect here. 456:Loss of cabin pressure 5416:of past discussions. 5300:several hundred miles 4847: 3514:Three considerations: 3387: 3261: 2798: 2119: 1081: 958: 834: 769: 300:unsourced speculation 42:of past discussions. 5059:Air France site down 4978:wreckage spotted. — 4424:Tone it down, please 4334:There is absolutely 2809:this BBC-created map 2662:Near crash last week 1501:Number of passengers 715:class=notpageimage| 5216:President of France 5212:Notre Dame de Paris 4639:(edit conflict) It 4272:Knowledge (XXG) is 3762:put out a statement 1289:tracked by portugal 762:Fernando de Noronha 690:Fernando de Noronha 116:Official statistics 5347:French airline.) 5291:Stolt Inspiration 5232:sightings location 4274:not a crystal ball 3389: 3263: 3112:Good job, thanks-- 3088: 2968:In popular culture 2805: 2802: 1746:Timezone confusion 1102: 1100: 960: 836: 771: 5459: 5458: 5428: 5427: 5422:current talk page 5353:comment added by 5242:comment added by 5098: 4808: 4769: 4752:original research 4610: 4569: 4523: 4402: 4310: 4239:comment added by 3989: 3972:comment added by 3867: 3839:Hungarian victims 3485: 3340:original research 3313:original research 3247: 3214: 3160: 3086: 3075: 2979:comment added by 2800: 2774:comment added by 2751:comment added by 2672:comment added by 2650: 2607: 2585:comment added by 2134:1 Africain du Sud 2097:comment added by 2079:comment added by 1950:Hungarian victims 1875:Image for infobox 1783:comment added by 1686:comment added by 1615:comment added by 1604:Update on swedes: 1429:comment added by 1401:comment added by 1305: 1124:comment added by 1082: 1029: 1015:comment added by 1006: 530: 389:comment added by 367:comment added by 330:comment added by 100:comment added by 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5463: 5437: 5430: 5429: 5407: 5406: 5400: 5365: 5254: 5214:attended by the 5206: 5097: 5095: 5089: 5084: 4998:Argentinian Crew 4983: 4807: 4805: 4799: 4794: 4768: 4766: 4760: 4755: 4609: 4607: 4601: 4596: 4568: 4566: 4560: 4555: 4522: 4520: 4514: 4509: 4508:the same thing. 4502:reliable sources 4468: 4431: 4401: 4399: 4393: 4388: 4309: 4307: 4301: 4296: 4251: 3988: 3966: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3931: 3863: 3758:original article 3481: 3449: 3444: 3439: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3324: 3243: 3210: 3156: 3119: 3116: 3082: 3079: 3046: 3043: 3007: 2991: 2960: 2955: 2949: 2931: 2926: 2921: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2904: 2859: 2854: 2849: 2786: 2763: 2684: 2649: 2647: 2642: 2637:wikinews article 2603: 2597: 2385: 2380: 2375: 2109: 2088: 1795: 1698: 1673: 1669: 1627: 1441: 1413: 1297: 1240: 1235: 1230: 1225: 1221: 1220: 1174: 1169: 1164: 1136: 1097: 1092: 1087: 1028: 1009: 1002: 735: 734: 733: 731: 701: 700: 685: 684: 678: 522: 401: 379: 342: 112: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5471: 5470: 5466: 5465: 5464: 5462: 5461: 5460: 5433: 5404: 5348: 5344: 5237: 5234: 5196: 5168: 5143: 5124: 5093: 5087: 5085: 5061: 5000: 4981: 4898: 4803: 4797: 4795: 4791:very good point 4764: 4758: 4756: 4605: 4599: 4597: 4564: 4558: 4556: 4518: 4512: 4510: 4466: 4429: 4397: 4391: 4389: 4305: 4299: 4297: 4277: 4234: 4230: 3967: 3923: 3889: 3841: 3565:194.105.255.161 3527:194.105.255.161 3492:The article on 3461: 3447: 3442: 3437: 3316: 3256: 3136: 3117: 3114: 3077: 3044: 3041: 3034: 3032:"orange points" 3005: 2997: 2974: 2970: 2953: 2947: 2942: 2929: 2924: 2919: 2896: 2857: 2852: 2847: 2793: 2769: 2746: 2674:189.122.121.200 2667: 2664: 2645: 2643: 2615: 2613:Satellite image 2580: 2543: 2509:] from the bbc 2484: 2383: 2378: 2373: 2352: 2125:Communiqué N° 5 2115: 2092: 2074: 2060: 2040:18/04/2005. -- 2009: 1952: 1899: 1877: 1801: 1778: 1748: 1726: 1724:File:F-GZCP.jpg 1704: 1681: 1671: 1657: 1610: 1503: 1462: 1424: 1396: 1315: 1301: 1285: 1283:Tracking Trivia 1238: 1233: 1228: 1218: 1216: 1172: 1167: 1162: 1119: 1095: 1090: 1085: 1010: 801: 764: 723: 721: 720: 719: 717: 711: 710: 709: 708: 702: 694: 693: 692: 686: 667: 526: 481: 458: 419: 408: 384: 362: 325: 258:Plastic Cupcake 132: 118: 95: 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5469: 5467: 5457: 5456: 5451: 5448: 5443: 5438: 5426: 5425: 5408: 5398: 5397: 5396: 5395: 5343: 5340: 5339: 5338: 5337: 5336: 5316: 5315: 5307: 5296: 5295: 5294: 5289: 5284: 5279: 5271: 5270: 5269: 5266: 5233: 5230: 5229: 5228: 5201:comment added 5167: 5164: 5142: 5139: 5123: 5120: 5119: 5118: 5117: 5116: 5060: 5057: 5056: 5055: 5018:190.247.38.104 4999: 4996: 4995: 4994: 4993: 4992: 4991: 4990: 4951: 4950: 4934: 4897: 4896:Wreakage Found 4894: 4893: 4892: 4891: 4890: 4889: 4888: 4883:Charles Edward 4870: 4869: 4857: 4856: 4855: 4836:Charles Edward 4831: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4827: 4826: 4825: 4824: 4823: 4822: 4821: 4820: 4819: 4818: 4817: 4816: 4815: 4814: 4813: 4812: 4789:An additional 4748:Brazilian site 4685:Cough, AF 446 4637: 4636: 4635: 4634: 4633: 4577:omphaloskeptic 4532: 4478: 4477: 4476: 4475: 4442: 4441: 4440: 4439: 4438: 4374: 4373: 4372: 4371: 4370: 4369: 4327:Charles Edward 4276: 4270: 4269: 4268: 4229: 4226: 4225: 4224: 4223: 4222: 4221: 4220: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4216: 4193: 4192: 4191: 4190: 4189: 4188: 4187: 4186: 4164: 4163: 4162: 4161: 4160: 4159: 4139: 4138: 4137: 4136: 4119: 4118: 4117: 4116: 4099: 4098: 4083: 4082: 4081: 4080: 4079: 4078: 4077: 4076: 4075: 4074: 4050: 4049: 4048: 4047: 4046: 4045: 4044: 4043: 4018: 4017: 4016: 4015: 4014: 4013: 3993: 3992: 3991: 3990: 3960: 3959: 3958: 3957: 3940: 3939: 3926:Socrates2008 ( 3920: 3888: 3885: 3840: 3837: 3836: 3835: 3834: 3833: 3832: 3831: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3805: 3754: 3753: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3726: 3619: 3618: 3617: 3616: 3615: 3614: 3613: 3612: 3611: 3610: 3609: 3608: 3540: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3522: 3519: 3515: 3490: 3489: 3488: 3466:200.6.172.205 3460: 3457: 3456: 3455: 3428: 3427: 3413:by Tim Vasquez 3382: 3381: 3380: 3379: 3378: 3377: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3333: 3332: 3319:Socrates2008 ( 3255: 3252: 3237: 3236: 3204: 3203: 3202: 3201: 3200: 3199: 3180: 3179: 3135: 3132: 3131: 3130: 3129: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3093: 3092: 3069: 3033: 3030: 3029: 3028: 2996: 2993: 2981:150.203.247.43 2969: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2938: 2937: 2913: 2912: 2899:Socrates2008 ( 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2839: 2838: 2792: 2789: 2788: 2787: 2776:189.107.51.241 2742: 2741: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2663: 2660: 2659: 2658: 2614: 2611: 2576: 2575: 2542: 2539: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2483: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2453:71.203.115.184 2449: 2448: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2444: 2391: 2351: 2350:UK and Ireland 2348: 2330: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2325: 2315:92.226.139.207 2297: 2257:80.242.196.243 2229: 2228: 2225: 2222: 2219: 2216: 2213: 2210: 2207: 2204: 2201: 2198: 2195: 2192: 2189: 2186: 2183: 2180: 2177: 2174: 2171: 2168: 2165: 2162: 2159: 2156: 2155:5 Britanniques 2153: 2150: 2147: 2144: 2141: 2138: 2135: 2127: 2126: 2123: 2114: 2111: 2059: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2053: 2052: 2008: 2005: 1985: 1983: 1982: 1951: 1948: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1934:85.178.123.254 1898: 1895: 1876: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1800: 1797: 1747: 1744: 1725: 1722: 1703: 1700: 1688:95.223.147.254 1668:Harry the Dog 1656: 1653: 1652: 1651: 1600: 1598: 1596: 1594: 1592: 1590: 1588: 1586: 1584: 1582: 1580: 1578: 1576: 1574: 1572: 1570: 1568: 1566: 1564: 1562: 1560: 1558: 1556: 1554: 1552: 1550: 1502: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1496: 1495: 1461: 1458: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1388: 1378:AlexandrDmitri 1367: 1366: 1365: 1364: 1347: 1346: 1314: 1311: 1299: 1284: 1281: 1255: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1207: 1206: 1205: 1204: 1203: 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