1232:, images should respect "conventional expectations of readers for a given topic as much as is possible without sacrificing the quality of the article. Avoid images that contain irrelevant or extraneous elements that might seem offensive or harassing to readers;". While remarkable that an image of his body is available, the body doesn't add anything to the incident. There isn't a question that is answered by the image, "did he really die?". Readers can reasonably assume he died in the place crash without photographic evidence required.
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1361:"In the Aleutian campaign I (Okumiya) was Admiral Kakuda's air staff aide. I could not realize at the time how far-reaching an effect this seemingly trivial incident of losing to the enemy a single intact Zero could have. We felt strongly that the unnoticed capture of the airplane, assisting the enemy so greatly in producing a fighter plane specifically to overcome the Zero's advantages, did much to hasten our final defeat." P. 163.
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its turn rate. Since you mentioned being more familiar with the
European theater, look at the Spitfire versus the Bf-109: You could argue the Spit was outclassed "in terms of speed, armament " as well, but it did compare quite well to the Bf-109 in battle. (Putting the ruggedness in brackets as the Spitfire did not share the fuel tank problem with the A6M.) --
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1818:"Also, its engine cut out under negative acceleration due to its float-type carburetor. We now had the answer for our pilots who were being outmaneuvered and unable to escape a pursuing Zero. Go into a vertical power dive, using negative acceleration if possible to open the range while the Zero's engine was stopped by the acceleration"
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Further up you stated that the Zero was outclassed "in terms of speed, armament and ruggedness". But being superior in the turn -- which the A6M was -- is a feature all by itself, especially against an enemy who has not yet learned the lesson of how to work with a plane's energy potential instead of
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Mental note - in case someone brings it up later, this page does not mention improvements to
American machinery because "Contrary to some published reports, the Navy F6F Grumman Hellcat and the F4U Corsair were not designed after examination of Koga's Zero. Both were flying when Koga's Zero arrived
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If I were editing the article, I would delete it as an overstatement. However, although I've read a great deal about WWII, my focus has been the
European Theater; I leave it to others who have greater expertise in the history of the Pacific Theater to make such judgments. I was merely offering an
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as far as I know the A6M didn't have any problems to make negative G dives. ok, this can may have be reported during the trials, but I think that a information saying this must be place in the article, because people may gonna think that the aicraft couldn't make negative G maneuvers like early
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May I offer the view that this is an overstatement? The
Mitsubishi A6M Zero was Japan's most advanced shipboard fighter at the beginning of the war, but in terms of speed, armament and ruggedness it was outclassed early on by U.S. carrier-based fighters. While acquisition of the Akutan Zero was
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I'm still slightly astonished that anybody thinks the F6F was developed in response to the Zero. The design was drafted before Pearl Harbor (i.e., before anybody in the navy ever saw an A6M) and the only change from the X job was the engine. The Akutan Zero was flown in
September but Grumman
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Thach had heard, from a report published in the 22 September 1941 Fleet Air
Tactical Unit Intelligence Bulletin, of the Japanese Mitsubishi Zero's extraordinary maneuverability and climb rate. Before even experiencing it for himself, he began to devise tactics meant to give the slower-turning
1609:. In that tide-turning encounter, Japan lost four aircraft carriers, suffering (as the Wiki article notes) "irreparable damage" to its carrier force — its primary weapon in the Pacific War and, not incidentally, the force it had employed against Pearl Harbor and the U.S. Fleet in 1941.
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Hi, I received a note on my talk page about my edit adding the info about the Zero influencing the design of the
Hellcat. I added the info because it was found in a reputable source. Please see the exact quote that supports article text on the bottom of page 103 here
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As indicated in the section at the top of this page, and in the quote from the
Rearden book, the Hellcat had already been designed when the Zero was captured, so the claim that the captured Japanese fighter influenced the American plane's design is incorrect.
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I have almost sure that the A6M2 could do negative G maneuvers without any problems. but I are just talking, I don't have sources, I know, but please, check this information folks, you may are providing a wrong tecnical information about the plane.
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Again, equating the capture of a type of airplane in importance with a major naval battle seems illogical, and to me indicates that the person making the statement may have a particular fascination with the A6M Zero that leads him to exaggerate its
1375:, Annapolis: United States Naval Institute, 1955, briefly describes the Dutch Harbor raid and notes that only one fighter from this mission failed to return to the carrier, as it was hit while strafing and made a forced landing. P. 140.
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1855:- I don't have Rearden's book handy, but I remember that the appendix contains an exhaustive list of all modifications made to the Zero after it was recovered. And, as far as I recall, it did not say the carburetor was replaced.
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30 June 1941 Navy awards contract to
Grumman for XF6F-1, designer uses information from Navy pilots who had flown Wildcat in combat with Japanese warplanes, including memo from Navy on F4F's inferior perfomance against Zeke at
1732:, discussion on cquote etc. in archives, and note what a pull-quote is: Repetition of text from the article. I would have thought that before accepting it for FP it would be given a once-over with an eye to such things.
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While the book does state that the F6F was the first plane designed by
Grumman following their study of the captured Zero, it refines that by stating that Grumman modified the design to reduce fuselage weight. P.
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I believe the image of Tadayoshi Koga's corpse should be removed. It brings nothing to the article and I find it disrespectful to show a dead body, atleast without the familys concent.(approval) bad english sorry
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Knowledge (XXG) contains many different images, some of which are considered objectionable or offensive by some readers. For example, some articles contain graphical depictions of violence, or depictions of human
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The article attributes that quote to a historian and makes it clear that it's his opinion, it isn't declaring it as fact. If you believe that it's an overstatement then your issue would be with Masatakesan. --
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Japanese historian Masatake Okumiya stated that the acquisition of the Akutan Zero "was no less serious" than the Japanese defeat at the Battle of Midway, and that it "did much to hasten Japan's final defeat".
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No, my issue isn't with a Japanese historian. My issue is with the article, which presents Okumiya's statement to the reader as a relevant piece of information, implying that it is a valid or reasonable
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My concern is that the page isn't marked as having a pic of a dead body... I'd like some sort of header to note that there's content that not everyone might be content seeing. (Tee-hee, homophones!)
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I changed the incorrect use of pull-quotes to block quotes (what was intended). Because this is a Front-Page'ed article, I was verbose in my justification. Please see
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certainly helpful to the U.S. war effort in terms of scoping out the Zero's strengths and weaknesses, it seems quite a stretch to compare its importance to that of the
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Are either the Japanese or American serial numbers for this aircraft known? If they are, then they can be added to this article and the article can be added to the
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As they wrongly assumed that the captured plane had such an influence, they may have overstated the case for the Zero's capture on the later course of the war.
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Tad and his friends sound like 19-year-old punks -- shooting at other pilots in the water after their planes went down. Comeuppance of a sort in the end.
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1078:. I asked Barrett about the claim that this captured Zero influenced the Hellcat’s design. Barrett’s comments (which he has authorized me to pass on):
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delivered the first dash threes at year end. That was not enough time to make production-line changes and then spool up the first production batch.
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on this especific aircraft I already hear that during the repairs the allies instaled in carburator on the wrong way, so thefore this had happen.
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on this especific aicraft I already hear that during the repairs the allies instaled in carburator on the wrong way, so thefore this had happen.
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I have revised it, in light of Rearden's work, the comments above, and the Hellcat design timeline. That timeline, per O'Leary (cited), is:
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Furthermore, NOBODY whom I ever knew at Grumman said the Akutan bird influenced the Zeke. They include two test pilots and the F6F tech rep.
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Ok, I've finished drafting this article. It was a lot of fun :) I'd like to nominate it for FA status. Is there anything that's missing?
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While I'm ambivalent about the issue, the existing disclaimer appears to be the very last thing on the page, so it is hardly effective.
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Informational Intelligence Summary 85 (linked from this article) says explicitly that the engine cuts out under negative acceleration.
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While the Hellcat was designed to fight the Zero, specific knowledge of the Akutan plane did not contribute to its design.
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informed observation, and suggesting that other Wikipedians versed in this topic might want to consider acting upon it.
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The quote in the article is a partial paraphrase, unless the 1956 text was changed in the later editions of the book.
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which uses it. The big advantage is that you can click on the short form of the reference given in the <ref: -->
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This article is an opportunity for me to ask about the merits of each of these styles. I am editing an article on
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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article says Thach designed his tactic "soon after the United States' entry into World War II". Ant thoughts?--
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Far as I know, H & M were the source of that rumor, which has been accepted at face value for decades.
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http://www.webcitation.org/5mqqETu9K?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j-aircraft.com%2Fresearch%2FWarPrizes.htm
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http://www.webcitation.org/5mqqETu9K?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j-aircraft.com%2Fresearch%2FWarPrizes.htm
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I can provide page cites to (or send copies of pages of) the 1956 first English edition of
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In the Thatch weave article, the second paragraph contradicts the sentence you quoted:
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Spitfires indeed had that problem but it was corrected by Tilly Shilling, check this:
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said early versions of the Spitfire had the same problem with inverted flight.
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I think that a wrong information maybe is being provide on this article
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is quite nice (I'm probably biased, I made it) - try having a look at
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and it will take you to a full citation in the bibliography section.
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where I need to provide several inline citations for a book. --
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Midway, The Battle That Doomed Japan, The Japanese Navy's Story
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Another book by one of the same authors, Fuschida, Mitsuo and
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I believe so. Excellent work, Kablammo. Thank you very much.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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in San Diego in August 1942." - Rearden, Fighter, 86.
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128:Did you know?
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1936:— Preceding
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734:Create some
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501:project page
489:
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477:Japan portal
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278:World War II
242:WikiProjects
189:
168:
161:
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133:
125:
95:
45:please do so
34:
26:
2016:Sourcecheck
1965:Akutan Zero
1879:Thunderbolt
1831:—Preceding
1777:Thach weave
1773:Thach weave
1767:Thach weave
1724:blockquotes
1673:importance.
1581:TheGrappler
1183:—Preceding
953:task forces
699:(TV series)
633:Peer review
497:participate
163:Akutan Zero
27:Akutan Zero
2122:Categories
2086:Report bug
1653:statement.
1595:Importance
1234:Lucaswood1
947:open tasks
832:U.S. state
507:, and see
196:column on
167:(pictured)
152:Mitsubishi
132:column on
36:identified
2069:this tool
2062:this tool
1781:Knulclunk
1551:DThomsen8
1030:Finished!
746:translate
186:Main Page
122:Main Page
2075:Cheers.—
1938:unsigned
1909:Loosmark
1833:unsigned
1480:Kablammo
1409:Kablammo
1395:Kablammo
1379:Kablammo
1264:anatomy.
1248:Friedlad
1185:unsigned
1176:The body
1158:Kablammo
963:Aviation
904:Aircraft
899:Aviation
671:Pictures
664:Articles
274:Japanese
266:Aviation
232:FA-class
155:A6M Zero
102:Promoted
2106:Mjroots
2002:checked
1969:my edit
1927:Love it
1857:Raul654
1800:Raul654
1753:Raul654
1734:DĹ‚ugosz
1542:tag.
1521:Raul654
1505:Georgia
1318:, with
1272:Raul654
1052:Raul654
1036:Raul654
874:on the
681:: None
674:: None
667:: None
607:history
562:on the
526:Refresh
188:in the
149:Japan's
124:in the
80:Process
2010:failed
1751:edit.
1569:Harvnb
1459:Midway
847:Alaska
837:Alaska
788:Alaska
758:Assess
644:: None
636:: None
238:scale.
208:, and
83:Result
1503:Sandy
1497:With
1437:Heise
1434:Nancy
1324:Zero!
1308:Zero!
1286:Hohum
1154:Zero!
743:Help
678:Lists
617:purge
612:watch
535:Japan
517:Reiwa
491:Japan
440:Japan
270:Asian
29:is a
2110:talk
2006:true
1946:talk
1913:talk
1887:talk
1861:talk
1841:talk
1804:talk
1785:talk
1757:talk
1749:this
1738:talk
1710:talk
1687:talk
1617:talk
1585:talk
1555:talk
1525:talk
1510:Talk
1484:talk
1413:talk
1399:talk
1383:talk
1351:163.
1314:and
1290:talk
1276:talk
1252:talk
1238:talk
1193:talk
1162:talk
1056:talk
1040:talk
1021:talk
950:and
709:Add
602:edit
145:U.S.
77:Date
2043:RfC
2020:).
2008:or
1993:to
1983:to
1883:Sca
1877:in
1683:Sca
1613:Sca
1206:--
866:Low
834:of
554:Mid
519:6)
513:JST
2124::
2112:)
2104:.
2056:.
2051:}}
2047:{{
2018:}}
2014:{{
1948:)
1915:)
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1266:--
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902::
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694::
656:–
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443::
346:/
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264::
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530:)
522:(
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244::
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194:"
190:"
169:?
138:.
130:"
126:"
47:.
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