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while he lived in Hawaii. Most of the information is passed down through oral history and of his playing of the game on occasion in
Honolulu for pleasure with sons and grandchildren. Seeing things in writing, especially in a format such as Knowledge, that have no documentation to back it up is like reciting the Doubleday Myth all over again. I think if you look through files at the State Archives in Honolulu you will see that Lorrin Thurston (who overthrew the monarchy) actually started a baseball league in Hawaii. His baseball scrapbook can be viewed at the archives.
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the man; it just makes it even more ackward to read and diminish
Cartwright's role. So my question is who "invented" baseball (not the actual invention which can be debated but the invention credited to Cartwright and what he/the club did in the 1840s)? Was it Cartwright or the Club? Obviously Cartwright must have done something other than be the member and a secretary to get Congress and history to recognize him as the "inventor". --
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not read my book about
Cartwright. I admire Mr. Cartwright a great deal, yet wish to provide factual information about his legacy, and not add to the myth about it. Did you know that Cartwright and his two sons, Bruce and Allie, were members of the Hawaiian League? I am learning how to do these edits, and not yet familiar with providing citations in html. I welcome questions and even debate as long as evidence is provided. -- --
824:, including the Internet Movie Database, Cracked.com, CBDB.com, and so forth, with the exception of material on such sites that is labeled as originating from credentialed members of the sites' editorial staff, rather than users. Find a Grave is not currently specifically named as is IMBd but falls under "and so forth". Rational dictates that Find a Grave, while not listed by name in WP:SPS, certainly falls under the criteria.
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Don't add url links or pdf file links onto the contents or
Knowledge articles or image captions. Here are my advices for you: either create a separate article on the photograph (there are articles on wikipedia about photographs and paintings, use those for examples) or add the two sources you have as
1031:
The article currently is a mess, and doesn't reflect any research done in the past two decades on the origins of baseball generally and of the New York game specifically. It also credits
Cartwright with several "rules" either not found in the Knickerbocker Rules, or which long preceded them. Even the
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My questions of accuracy have to do with wanting to see actual documentation of
Cartwright's involvement with baseball leagues in Hawaii for the biography I am writing on his life. Through my years of research, I have not found any documentation that he involved himself with baseball in a formal way
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I would like to see the documentation for the following two statements: "There, Cartwright established the first baseball league composed of teams he created from throughout the
Hawaiian islands. His Hawaiian leagues became a model for the modern American and National Leagues of today." I'm writing
973:
I'm going to revert this person's edit? There is no one to fix it, she hasn't done anything since Sep. 25, the article sounds like it's debating a point rather than getting the info across like an encyclopedic article. The original version was okay the way it was; it was better sourced and coherent
931:
I bid Aloha to KAVEBEAR. I added some more explanation to what I edited yesterday. I am the author of
Alexander Cartwright: The Life Behind the Baseball Legend. I am also authoring a book about Princess Theresa at the request of her descendants. By your comments above, I can tell that you have
915:
Recent edits by a recent editor has tried to diminish his involvement in baseball. She removed all reference to the first game and
Cartwright's role in making the rule which is referenced; hers edits are not. She change all reference to his involvement in baseball to action of the club rather than
613:
I've added this to the
Baseball WikiProject. I've labled as "Start" class because, while there's information here, it's fairly unsourced and there are some legitimate concerns with the accuracy (see above comments). I've labeled it as "High" importance because, as this man is "another" purported
989:
I agree with and 100% support your decision to revert her edits. The edits seem and look suspicious nor has she given any proof that she wrote a book on the sport of baseball. Where are her verifiable references cited in the article? There are none, that is why. It also appears that she has an
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As i said the first time I added to this caption - the addition itself is a statement of fact. The contrary opinion in the references is held by many. I left the original caption intact. If they are interested, people can read the references and decide for themselves.
1005:
It is quite obvious that this article doesn't reflect contemporary academic sources or acknowledge all the controversies surrounding his life. This article really need a dedicated and professional editor that can bring this article to the standard of a
943:
You are right, I don't know much about Cartwright but to make yourself more credible, please add sources. I'm sure you used other sources and research documents to write your book; preferably cite those and if not cite your book. Read
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gives this so-called fun fact: "Many believe that Madison Square Park is the birthplace of baseball, since Alexander Cartwright formed the first baseball club, the New York Knickerbockers, here in 1845."
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What you were writing look like a footnote? You have to find another way to integrated into the text or it just looks weird. I have changed it to a footnote with the sources you provided.--
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The club was established in 1845. Many of the club members played ball from 1842, if not earlier, at a site between 23rd and 27th Streets which contains or overlaps present-day
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Removed Find a Grave (also duplicated in external links) from the reference section. Long standing consensus is that this site fails one or more of the following;
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110811184733/http://archives1.dags.hawaii.gov/gsdl/collect/governme/index/assoc/HASH0113/98418827.dir/Cartwright%2C%20A%20J.jpg
844:
Up until 1897, New York City was just what today is known as the Borough of Manhattan. There is no 47th Ave. in Manhattan. Where were these games played?
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I would like to see the actual 1953 congressional reference to Alexander Cartwright inventing baseball. My sources tell me that this is not verifiable. --
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Why? - this is not against any rules that I know of. In fact when I first added this i was encourage by an administrator to include references.
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talking about the Knickerbocker Rules, invented in 1847, after all. Given that baseball as we know it wasn't even invented until 1890 or so …
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lede is bad, since there's no evidence Cartwright ever drew any sort of diagram (and diamond-shaped baseball fields predate 1845 by decades).
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inventor of modern baseball, we want to make sure that it, as a basis for a lot of baseball to come after him, is accurately represented. -
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Was there in the 1840s, or at any time, "4th Ave." near or at present-day Madison Ave or Park Ave, and also near latitude 27th St? --
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060618012039/http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/C/Cartwright_Alexander.stm
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The questions of accuracy possibly stem from the long-standing efforts to turn Alex Cartwright into the "real Abner Doubleday".
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410:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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http://archives1.dags.hawaii.gov/gsdl/collect/governme/index/assoc/HASH0113/98418827.dir/Cartwright%2C%20A%20J.jpg
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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or there is other citing templates for documents but I'm not too familiar with those. Happy editing.--
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removed because my sources say he was in Honolulu by then and the rest of his family arrived in 1851.
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the biography of AJ Cartwright and have never found this to be a fact in over five years of research.
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https://www.webcitation.org/6ED6LKBp4?url=http://www.cmgww.com/baseball/cartwright/about/awards.html
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Alexander Cartwright settled on the Island of Maui in 1851 after debarking from the Peruvian bark
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Firstly, given the context of "base ball", shouldn't the "base ball" wikilink be piped to
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/C/Cartwright_Alexander.stm
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external or further reading links at the end of the article. Please look at
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Yes, you are correct...it should be 4th Avenue (not 47th). I corrected it.
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extreme bias against Cartwright as well as trying to enforce her POV.
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8-16-2012 Addition to photo caption is simply a statement of fact.
522:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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http://www.cmgww.com/baseball/cartwright/about/awards.html
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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and not the article pertaining to the modern version? It
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725:(after the Knickerbocker Fire Engine Company) in 1842.
820:; This includes any website whose content is largely
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge's
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Mid-importance biography (sports and games) articles
1133:Photo caption references placed in reference list.
406:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
301:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
152:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1348:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1228:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1466:Unknown-importance Baseball Hall of Fame articles
1334:This message was posted before February 2018.
1214:This message was posted before February 2018.
1531:C-Class biography (sports and games) articles
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1441:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in People
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785:WP:SOURCES
1380:this tool
1373:this tool
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469:Biography
69:is rated
28:Main Page
1386:Cheers.—
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