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evolves significant characteristic changes then technically only one new species evolved. Of course "both "b" and "c" may diverge from the original form - in which case two new species would be appropriate. That said - I guess I should go read the context of the sentence in questions. I'd like to keep dorking with article as time allows. It is of interest and could use some work. My apologies for not citing as I go, I'm using lecture notes at the moment; however, I will get around to citing. Yes - shame on me:( PS I got around to reading the
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single species introduced on the Galápagos
Islands. Allopatric speciation occurs when two populations of a single species, separated by a physical barrier (eg a channel of water) become isolated both geographically and reproductively to the point that if the barrier breaks down, they are unable to interbreed. So adaptive radiation is just what it says - 1 species radiates into a variety of species, IN ORDER TO fill the niches; allopatric speciation - 1 species effectively becomes 2, THROUGH REPRODUCTIVE/GEOGRAPHIC ISOLATION.
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627:"In parapatric speciation there is no specific extrinsic barrier to gene flow. The population is continuous, but nonetheless, the population does not mate randomly. Individuals are more likely to mate with their geographic neighbors than with individuals in a different part of the population’s range. In this mode divergence may happen because of reduced gene flow within the population and varying selection pressures across the population’s range.
629:" I've yet to see a text reference this as a type of geographic isolation - perhaps because there is technically no "isolation" in that there are no geographic barriers only preferential mating. Campbell Biology equates allopatric with geographic isolation - the term seeming to be synonymous. The articles in separation had essentially identical explanations describing the same process and outcome. I think / hope the merge was appropriate.--
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material that I've left in place gets a bit technical. I'll need to understand it before any attempt is made by me to edit or delete. There are numerous examples of allopatric speciation - especially in island populations. I'll work them in or add to example section - although I don't like the heading "Examples". Might be a while before I can get back to it... so a citation needed tag may scar the landscape.--
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phenotypic divergance..." because to have phenotypic change there must be a change in genotype and for speciation to occur phenotypic changes must occur. 3. One thing that should be added to the article is how scientists define two separate species, which can be a tricky subject and should be explained thoroughly for the readers.
1344:"Allopatric speciation can result from mountain topography. Climatic changes can drive species into altitudinal zones—either valleys or peaks. Colored regions indicate distributions. As distributions are modified due to the change in suitable habitats, reproductive isolation can drive the formation of a new species."
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Actually, that was a direct quote; ummmm from where thou. The importance of citing as you go. I'll strike it for now and instead use adaptive radiation in island populations as the classic example of allopatric speciation. Adaptive
Radiation is a consequence of allopatric speciation - perhaps that is
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Alright then, another comment. Where did this 8 generations or more number come from (in the example picture of fruitflies)? As you know with certain bacteria that could take place in a day. As far as i was aware speciation had never been observed (asides from perhaps postulation from mDNA 'clocks' i
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in particular, the pattern of evolutionary history that moves down the chain of
Hawaiian islands, from the older ones to the younger ones. How does this version of the progression rule, which incorporates geological history, fit in to allopatric speciation? The image that the caption refers to in
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The offending sentences seems to have been brought over with
Geographic Isolation when the two separate articles were recently merged. Whether it made sense there - who knows. "This" was the evidence needed to finally prove Evolution to the masses. Too bad we have no way of ascertaining what "This"
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The first "sentence" is garbled, ungrammatical and of no clear meaning (this is not a broken edit, it was garbled like this from first insertion). However, removing this text (possibly) removes the anaphoric referent of the "...this..." in the following sentence. Since this second sentence cites no
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I think it is incorrect to say that "adaptive radiation ... is a form of allopatric speciation". These concepts are on different scale. Allopatric speciation is when one new species is generated (or two emerge from one by a split) under a particular condition (allopatry). Adaptive radiation is when
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How does adaptive radiation differ from allopatric speciation? Allopatry begins when subpopulations of a species become isolated geographically (for example, by habitat fragmentation or migration). The isolated populations are then liable to diverge evolutionarily over many generations. As far as I
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1. There was no mention of migration or founder effect which can also lead to allopatric speciation. 2. In the first paragraph the author writes "the vicariant populations then undergo genotypic OR phenotypic divergence..." which would be better phrased as "populations then undergo genotypic AND
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The info being added is gleaned from a variety of biology text; I suspect it is common knowledge within the field - however, look for misrepresentation of facts as I reword the text for simplification. I hope to seek out some online sources that are accessible to validate. Some of the original
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I haven't seen this discussed explicitly. My own interpretation is that allopatric speciation cocerns the "small" event that creates a new species, while adaptive radiation concerns a much wider observation that several daughter species from the same original species tend to be rater different.
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You're not overlooking a fine point, there's quite a distinct difference. Adaptive radiation occurs when a species is introduced to an ecosystem, hitherto unreachable, and can fill a variety of ecological niches. The most frequently quoted example is Darwin's finches - 14 species evolved from a
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It may need some tweaking; however, whether two "new" species have emerged depends on whether both undergo evolutionary changes that sufficiently distinguishes them from the ancestral population. I guess it is possible that if you split population "a" into two groups "b" and "c" - and only "c"
501:)-" evolve characteristics different from the parent population (due to genetics/genetic) change following geographical isolation, then if the geographical barriers are removed (perhaps due to human activity), members of the two populations will be unable to successfully mate with each other.
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Sorry... peri vs. para. I dug through some journals as well - enough to realize that the vocabulary and its application is a contentious topic - reminiscent of the definition and use of the word species. What I can gather - peripatric is a form of allopatric involving speciation among the
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many species emerge in a short time. Yes, allopatric speciation may have been the manner in which all the species emerged in the adaptive radiation. Still, this does not make the radiation a form of speciation. Radiation is a form of a (large) group of speciations. --
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Providing examples in an effective manner is, I think, going to be the hardest part of this article. It shouldn't be difficult at all to find an adequate number of examples in credible literature, however incorporating them in the article seems like it will be a
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The image is based on a very similar diagram which simply mentions "many generations pass". I don't know why the artist specified a lower limit of eight generations, but it seems a relatively minor mistake to me. Speciation has been observed, for instance
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Hope that helps. By the way, there was no need to revert my comment, it's just some harmless fun. There's no rule about not making a little joke on the discussion page. It was patronising, and insulting. It's not as though I don't know what I'm doing here.
510:)-" biological populations are physically isolated by an extrinsic barrier and evolve intrinsic (genetic) reproductive isolation to the extent that if the barrier should ever vanish, individuals of the two populations could no longer interbreed."
1207:"However, if it is of founder effects, or if the population becomes isolated in an environment which makes new demands upon it. Research has shown that this is a major reason why so many different species exist throughout the world."
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If my 6 weeks of college education have taught me anything, its that two members of the same species (opposite gender of course) can mate and produce a sexually viable offspring while two individuals of different species
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Yeah...I think before too much contemplation occurs, some references would be good (not to say your beastly lecture material isn't sufficient or anything!). My sights for that article are on GA for now...the
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I mentioned peripatric, not parapatric speciation. However, peripatric speciation may be a special case of allopatric—and perhaps it is hard to sort out the different concepts that are used in the literature.
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coined the term of vicariant speciation and precisely his proposal is based on a clear distancing from the
Darwinian notion of allopatric speciation. Thus "vicariant" is different from "allopatric".
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Spelled out this way, adaptive radiation sounds like a rather trivial concept, and I think it is. Anyway, it is not unreasonable that the same group of organisms is an example of both phenomena. --
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tend to represent the extreme genotypic composition."--I personally know what this sentence is saying, but some may be confused about which population the word "population" is referring to here.--
1184:. Could it be that the intention is to say that because the edges of the area tend to have extreme properties (for the area), selection tends to produce extreme phenotypes in the periphery. ? --
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with "The other major mode of allopatric speciation ... Mayr ... called this peripatric speciation". Futuyma refers here to
Mechanisms of Speciation, pp. 1-19 in Alan R. Liss, New York, 1982. --
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evidence for its claim, which is extravagent whatever the "this" refers to, I have removed both sentences. If anyone understands the real intent of this text, please insert a clearer version.
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After close analysis of the two articles; it seems a possible solution would be to merge the two; although in reality although the content is nearly identical; thus one is merely be deleted.--
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merely a poorly worded version of this topic? It certainly seems that that article as written is relating the same information as
Allopatric speciation. If so, should one be redirected?--
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This section starts with talking about social reasons for allopatric speciation...but than kind of falls off onto another topic. Is the other information to be put somewhere else?
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Disagree with removal in lieu of a citation that it is fundamentally flawed. "Eight generations" is not (yet) specifically cited in the image, but is cited at the more general
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the peripheral isolates are likely to possess genes that are different from the parental population since such populations tend to represent the extreme genotypic composition
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I noted this in my "wording" section, but was hesitant to delete it because it seemed important. However, if it doesn't make sense and isn't cited, what else can one do?--
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I agree. The speciation leads to adaptive radiation, but they are not the same thing. As always, I'm open to being overruled by a an opinion from a reliable source.
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I'd really like to remove the fruit fly picture because it does NOT take 8 generations to have a new species of fruit fly. I want to know if this is a good idea.
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is what I have in mind next for FA (perhaps a month or so away from getting around to adding some of the more "abstract content"...if you catch my drift). The
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Yes, raging for a long time, because organisms are not always neatly divided into species. There are many more interesting weeks to come. Consider for example
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this article (allopatric speciation by topography) almost illustrates the progression rule if you apply it to Hawaii and point the arrow in one direction.
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If I remember correctly from long-ago courses - hasn't the definition of species always been a source of raging debate among the learned?--
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A lot of these different topics all seem to intersect with and duplicate other treatments of same or similar topics. This caption --
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Reproductive isolation is not the only definition of species. But much of this article seems to assume it is. --
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Do you have a citation to support your claim? I assume the image is based on the published article it cites. --
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I think a harder look at scholarly sources will help (as the two articles stand right now, refs are slim).--
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suppose) so its unlikely to be a missing reference. So is this science or speculation on the 8 generations?
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From the first paragraph: "At this point, a new species has emerged."--wouldn't it be more correct to say
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Quite right. The text needs a fair bit of work...not to mention more sources to pull information from.--
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can tell, this is the same as adaptive radiation, but maybe I am overlooking a fine point.
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OK, I performed the merge. There is quite a lot of tension within the text though. --
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That makes sense to me. I suppose there's a fine line between the two.--
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and the establishment of a redirect. As it stands, the two article are
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Elephants can't mate?
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I think it's the right move. Work and expansion to be done.--
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is circular. It says that the genes in the periphery are
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588:Wouldn't geographic isolation also be involved in
920:- very well executed! Are you contemplating FA?--
712:pheral populations at the geographical fringes.--
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1272:— Preceding
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40:WikiProjects
1246:NYMFan69-86
1232:JimmyButler
1154:NYMFan69-86
1134:NYMFan69-86
1130:populations
1114:NYMFan69-86
1081:NYMFan69-86
1065:JimmyButler
1042:JimmyButler
1013:NYMFan69-86
974:NYMFan69-86
949:NYMFan69-86
945:peer review
937:Wood turtle
922:JimmyButler
902:NYMFan69-86
876:NYMFan69-86
846:NYMFan69-86
790:NYMFan69-86
775:JimmyButler
761:NYMFan69-86
714:JimmyButler
683:, 1998, by
667:NYMFan69-86
631:JimmyButler
603:NYMFan69-86
556:NYMFan69-86
514:NYMFan69-86
472:NYMFan69-86
450:JimmyButler
433:JimmyButler
409:article. —
393:98.217.8.46
131:systematics
1386:Categories
1352:Vicki Funk
943:is up for
470:similar.--
407:speciation
387:, thanks.
1370:Viriditas
1297:Elephants
1178:different
1009:professor
804:dandelion
788:cannot.--
1286:contribs
1278:Ryan.332
1274:unsigned
1112:occur?--
892:Question
812:bacteria
808:apomixis
625:Quoted:
204:Genetics
135:taxonomy
1182:extreme
1095:Wording
269:on the
174:on the
30:B-class
1186:Ettrig
994:Ettrig
862:Ettrig
816:Ettrig
810:) and
746:Ettrig
693:Ettrig
646:Ucucha
594:Ucucha
542:Ettrig
506:(From
497:(From
121:, and
36:scale.
1214:FredV
359:Ppe42
334:riana
1374:talk
1354:and
1329:talk
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710:peri
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671:talk
661:and
635:talk
607:talk
560:talk
546:talk
518:talk
476:talk
468:very
454:talk
437:talk
411:Lomn
397:talk
381:talk
166:High
133:and
1106:may
1102:may
1011:?--
898:two
427:Is
357:.
261:Low
1388::
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42::
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