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individuals would substantiate the claim that “Sikhism is a unique and independent religion”. However, this does not need to be proven here – which is why I never requested citations for these claims. For bringing citations which attempt to ‘prove’ this as fact are misplaced altogether. This has nothing whatsoever to do with my personal opinion of
Sikhism. It has to do with the NPOV stance we are required to take as editors of Knowledge. We can report that “Sikhs believe their religion to be unique” or something along those lines, but we cannot attempt to ‘prove’ that this is so. If we do, we become advocates of Sikhism instead of objective observers. Please try to see the perhaps subtle yet vitally important difference between these two stances. To contribute to Knowledge in a positive way, an editor must try to adhere to NPOV at all times.
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intentionally giving wrong advice to people, using objects and language that is poisonous (female twisting of language where every conversation turns into an insult), insulting dead people, using people's problems sarcastically. They should be declared "other" not Arya Samaji as they have a tendency to do anything for money and pornography and prostitution is their custom and should now be under investigation of the police. Other priests also have started practices to mix cow dung, dog excrements , urine and engine oil (to make people permanently black especially high caste hindus) during Holi festivities. I am reiterating it that this is definitely not Hindu practice or East Indian custom of any kind. It is considered rakshasha practices as evident in many vedic stories and the
Ramayana.
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are more references provided in that small section than the average citations in the entire article itself. The 4 lines of text under this section now has 6 citations, which is far more than the average in this article. What is your objection to the "uniqueness" of
Sikhism? Also, if you want, I can add quotes from the English translation of Swami Dayanand Saraswati's comments on Guru Nanak and other religions here with citations that should satisfy your concern/doubt about the use of language. Perhaps we can also start collaborating on adding newer section with Arya Samaj's view on other religions. As we progress, we can add more information to the article which will help making it complete with information regarding Arya Samaj history, beliefs and interactions with contemporary society.
257:, I say this in my defence: As I indicate in the article, this issue is a controversial one for both parties involved. Reports as to what exactly happened stand in conflict with one another, and propaganda has been published on both sides. A serious and objective review by a third party, however, has not been undertaken (and is not likely anytime in the near future). Rather than edit the existing article, which has, in my view, been cast with a decided slant towards the Theosophical camp, I choose to let that article stand as a representative of the same. Which of the two is correct does not really concern me. However this seems like the best place to discuss this issue as seen from the perspective of the Arya Samaj.
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524:. As it stands, this is still the case. However, if a section dealing with the topic as a whole (i.e. the effects of the Samaj) were to be written, I could see how it would fit in quite nicely. Yet, we must remain neutral observes at all times, and not attempt to rectify the errors of the past through our own commentary. We must assume that the reader is intelligent enough to judge for themselves.
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official doctrine’ of the Arya Samaj. And I don’t think either of those can be substantiated. Of course, if you have sourced quotes from the actual Arya Samaj activists who were establishing themselves in the region where they explicitly make statements such as those mentioned in the article, we can certainly include them.
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identity was reinvigorated", etc. These things may or may not be true, but as it stands, these are POV 'blurbs' (i.e. 'promotional statements') for
Sikhism which ever way you cut it. Our job here is to report on the 'related facts' of the situation, not to pass judgement upon them or take sides in a dispute.
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Any info on
Saraswatis thoughts about western education i.e. most concepts have a christian background like naming of diseases in medicine or greek roots. As they become mainstream in indian culture then it becomes easy to psychologically manipulate indians into thinking that christianity is superior
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as well if out of nothing more than fairness to both societies involved. It cannot be denied that the encounters between Olcott, Blavatsky and
Dayanand did not have a profound effect on the former, and it could furthermore be argued on reasonable grounds that the epithet "Wisdom Religion" used by the
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Since no one else seems to be working on this article, I have taken it upon myself to add some more substantial content. However, this will come intermittantly and in parts, as I do not have the time to write everything at once. So, fellow editors, please take this into consideration before trying to
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I'm not entirely against letting the reference remain, but I object to it being included in the header of the article. Perhaps a later section detailing
Cricital Views regarding the Arya Samaj could be put together, where it would be much more appropriately placed. (This could also be linked with the
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I have added more material on Arya Samaj after
Dayanand but a lot more need to be done to get the whole story of Arya Samaj between 1880 - 1920 in the article. The Samaj was considered quite radical in this period and attracted a lot of attention from muslims sikhs and orthodox hindus. I have made a
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Notice, for example, that you won't find any statements in the section on the
Theosophical Society like "The Theosophical Society is a group of individuals practicing the true, esoteric spirituality which underlies all exoteric religions" or anything of the sort. Yes, the Theosophists might say this
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Dear Varoon (Aryaman), I do not agree with your entitlement of "blurb" for the section "Relations with Sikhs" on the main article page. First off, its not a blurb but an important piece of history and facts. Secondly, the information is not out of place as its about the relationship of the "subject"
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I would assume the
Knowledge would adhere to the same kind of standard. Regardless, the fact that a Mr. M. Ruthven has stated that the principles of the Arya are to be identified as religious fundamentalism does not, in my eyes, justify putting this in the header of the article - especially when the
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It is not the number of citations which qualify material for inclusion in a given article. If a claim made in a statement does not belong in an article to begin with, it does not matter how many pieces of supporting evidence one brings forth, that fact does not change. I do not doubt that scores of
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The article does not have any information beyond its foundation. As per my references, the Samaj was very active , not only in Punjab but also in Hindu diasporas around the world. Indirectly it was also influential in getting the Sikhs to form anti-aryasamaji, Singh Sabha and in the formation of
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Dear Varoon, Though I'm not the submitter of the whole text in the form that it existed before on the article page, I've modified and reformatted the language due to your POV concerns and added more references. However, I do not agree with your putting of "factually incorrect" tag there when there
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On account of this comlexity and historical importance of this issue, I could imagine there being a need to devote more space to this important aspect of the development of the two societies. It is certainly as important as the relation of the Arya Samaj with the Sikhs (which has received - oddly
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I'm not even sure what this section is doing here, but apparently a few editors feel it is necessary to "enlighten" people about Sikhism in this article. As I've been reverted several times in my attempt to keep it NPOV and on-topic, I request that those interested in keeping the present passage
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Also, there is – at present – no need to add quotes from Dayanand’s Satyarth Prakash – unless you can show that (1) it was Swami Dayanand himself who was setting up offices in the Punjab and claiming that Sikhism is ‘just a branch of Hinduism’, or (2) that the Satyarth Prakash is the ‘corpus of
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Hi again, A.S. Aulakh. I’m glad to see that you are willing to discuss this issue sensibly. The effort is appreciated, and – generally speaking – I would be willing to collaborate on future expansions of the article in reference to the effects of the Arya Samaj and the relationship between that
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Hi A.S. Aulakh. I chose the word 'blurb' consciously, for this article is not the place for statements like "Sikhism is an independent and unique religion", "Sikhism is a monotheistic religion that espouses equality between all humans, regardless of faith, gender, caste or occupation" and "Sikh
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I am concerned that I added an entirely unreferenced block of text (I removed the Indianet link which did exist because the info was not in the citation given, and the site is on Knowledge's spam blacklist. But I think the removal of this as a separate page will at least make the project more
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Dihal is an unaccredited priest who is teaching adherents a personal cult and may not be psychologically sound. He is trying to come up with a cult where his close family is being used as God's people and is trying to make them follow Jewish tradition instead of Arya Samaji. Which includes
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I am not the author of this section of the article, and I can only assume that it was added by a member of the Sikh community who felt somehow offended by the advances of the Arya Samaj and wanted to make a point. I have always felt that it is out of place, and that without discussing the
730:, under a new heading: "Principles of Arya Samaj". I think that the content in the Principles article can easily be explained in the context of Arya Samaj and that it's still short enough so that the merger will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned.
169:, was not the case. If anything, the opposite would be closer to the truth. Blavatsky reportedly stated that Swami Dayanand was one of the incarnated 'mahatmas', and his position was elevated enough that he was requested to provide an account of his life for their periodical,
78:, and though arguably the term could be said to apply on technical grounds, the caveat of the Wiki article - which is an important part of its presentation - in no way finds expression in the short proclamation in the present article. A very relevant passage reads:
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3) ..is misleading, for the Arya Samaj was at no time known by any name of which the term "Theosophical" was a part. It is true that Swami Dayanand was enrolled in the Theosophical Society, but, as indicated before, as its "Lawful Director in Chief".
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Lastly, I would like to know why exactly you object to the passage as it read before. I reproduce it below in the hopes that you will clarify why you felt it was insufficient in stating the facts of the situation with respect to both the Samaj and
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There are several accepted and therefore correct spellings of the word, i.e., 'OM', 'AUM', 'OUM', 'O3M', etc. In the Arya Samaj community, the word is typically written with a pluta 'O' followed by 'M' (O3M), as it appears in the current image.
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tie together what I admit are now rather disparate parts in this article. Once the main sections are roughed out, I will go back and smooth out the edges. Suggestions and corrections on the already existing parts are, however, more than welcome.
177:"Resolved, that the Theosophical Society, for itself and branches in America, Europe and elsewhere, recognize hereby Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Pandit, and Founder of the Arya Samaj, as its lawful Director in Chief." (See: Bawa Chhajju Singh,
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1) ...gives the impression that it was the Arya Samaj which sought a partnership with the Theosophical Society. This, according to the available records of the correspondance between the two groups, as well as to the Wiki article on the
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It's important to keep in mind that interpretation of vedic mantras were written by british scholars or later indian scholars who were influenced by sanatan dharma concepts and may not apply to Arya Samaj as Vivekananda promoted.
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Theosophists in regard to their doctrine is nothing other than a literal (though rough) translation of "Vaidika Dharma", which was and continues to be the most widely used term among Arya Samajists to describe their own faith.
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the passages you are citing in your references - especially the one that says the Arya Samaj tried to get Sikhs to engage in 'idol worship' and 'casteism', and that these 'Arya Samaj Leaders' were using 'derogatory language',
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Forgive me if this is a dumb question or I missed the answer, but does this group still exist? The lead uses the present tense. If so, isn't it a bit odd that the article mentions nothing that happened after 1882?
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I changed the lead from "a Hindu Reform Movement in India" to "a Hindu Reform Movement founded in India". The fact that there exist offices of the Arya Samaj all over the world should be reason enough to justify the
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Furthermore, I don't see why the passage mentions "Udasis and Mahants". This page is about the Arya Samaj, not about the "Reinvigoration of Sikhism". Please only bring information directly related to the Arya
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How come this article does not venture beyond 19th century ? How did it spread in 20th century ? What is the status of the movement now? Does it predominantly have Punjabi , Gujarati or all India following ?
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I have added a substantial section relating to the short-lived affair between the Arya Samaj and the Theosophical Society. Therefore, I will remove the reference in the header altogether.
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It was also determined that a facsimile of the signature of Dayanand should appear on all of the diplomas issued thereafter by the Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj of Aryavarta.
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manageable. The article really is a mess now - it is very informative, but is at an almost complete lack of citations. I, unfortunately, have virtually no knowledge of the subject.
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I've added a substantial portion to explain some of the background behind the formation of the Arya Samaj and it stands in need of a good edit. Please comment as you see fit.
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the Ahmadiya sect. Leaders like Lajpat Rai belonged to it. All this needs to be sourced and added. This is a huge task and I would like other editors to jump in . Thanks. (
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information relating to Sikhs as well as the hitherto untouched yet historically significant reaction of Muslims to the practice of Shuddi initiated by the Arya Samaj.)
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I had the information about its current situation. Organization has vastly increased, but there is one problem, the recent statistics are not really published online.
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What's that? Is that vandalism? The caption for the first picture of the page says that the word depicted is misspelled (OUM instead of AUM) but has nice shadows!
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And please don't remove the templates from a disputed section. It should remain marked until we work out a satisfactory compromise with the actual data. Thanks.
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enough - its own section). However, for the time being, I would be satisfied with the following change in relation to the above mentioned passage:
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2) ...is not entirely correct. The full name of the society in the West was changed to "The Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj of Aryavarta".
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If there is no response in two week's time, I will remove the reference, though it should remain here in the discussion page for later inclusion.
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There should be a section on etymology, clearly distinguishing the term Arya here does not refer to the remigration of Aryans to North India
82:"The Associated Press' AP Stylebook recommends that the term fundamentalist not be used for any group that does not apply the term to itself."
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to vedic philosophy. This is why concepts should not be confused with naming and concepts are more important than the naming conventions.
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relationship the Arya Samaj had with other religions – including orthodox Hinduism – the existence of such a section was in violation of
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Also, I would like to see at least a reference made to this realtively short-lived and rather unfortunate liason on the main page of the
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Also, in case someone wants to know why I have included this information here instead of adding to the already existing article on the
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It would good to add statistics on number of people following Arya samaj as their religion in India as well as other countries.Thanks.
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Documents related to these events, along with exerpts from letters of Dayanand to Olcott and Blavatsky, can also be found in the book
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We can report the reactions of the Sikhs of the time, but we have to draw the line at taking up their case and arguing it for them.
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Yes, the Arya Samaj still exists. I'm not a follower but I know of many. It just means the history section needs to be completed.
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With addition of more references, re-formatting of language and removal of some content the NPOV issue should also get resolved.--
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of Aryavatra, was officially recognized by the Arya Samaj as a branch of the same for the period between May 1878 and March 1882.
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Therefore, it is hardly correct to say that "the (Arya Samaj was known) under the name Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj".
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Arya Samaj may have preserved the practices of ancient Indo European religions. Roman and Greek gods have a similar pantheon.
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The society was united with the Theosophical Society for a certain time, under the name Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj.
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First of all, mention the material in orderly manner & in your own words per your understanding. Also mention sources.
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Does Arya samaj exist in tamil nadu?I want to join and learn vedas...or can you suggest me any other similar one.
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Is there anyone here who can confirm that the word is indeed misspelled and upload a correct version of the word?
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Would anyone care to explain what the word "rockstar" in the introduction to this article is supposed to mean?
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I'm thinking we should add something about daily prayers (Sandhya) or worship style (havans) instead of
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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about themselves, but it's not NPOV and thus it doesn't belong here. The same is true for Sikhism.
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Thanks. I am sure you will still be able to add information you have to the appropriate section.
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to reaffirm Sikhism as a unique religion and peaceably regain control of Sikh institutions and
377:(Arya Samaj) with Sikhs. I have added the citations to the page as requested by you. Thanks. --
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and in all likelyhood did not involve an in-depth evaluation of the Arya Samaj specifically.
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organization and other religions. I still have some concerns with the current text, however.
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If no one responds to this within 2 week's time, I will make the change as proposed above.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Madam Blavatsky and the myth of the Great White Lodge By K. Paul Johnson
575:. Concerned about what was perceived as a threat to Sikh identity, the
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If it was founded in 1875, why does H A Rose say c. 1847? See p. 21
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Events Leading Up To and Including the Founding of the Arya Samaj
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It rather prejudices the issue when put in the banner.
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Should the picture be candidated for speedy deletion?
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Arya Samaj after its Foundation to the present Times
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I went ahead with the Principals of Arya Samaj merge
830:talking about history. Any ideas on how to start?
1101:Priest Dihal - Suriname (family of Fagoe /Narain)
692:The Encyclopaedia Of Indian Literature Volume One
363:bring some proof to substantiate their claims.
275:The doctrines of Arya Samaj are identified as
235:Additional suggestions are more than welcome.
179:Life and teachings of Swami Dayanand Saraswati
74:I've taken a good look at the Wiki article on
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563:In 1875, Arya Samaj established itself in
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782:Text and/or other creative content from
190:The Autobiography of Dayanand Saraswati
152:Arya Samaj and the Theosophical Society
255:Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj
228:Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj
167:Theosophical Society of the Arya Samaj
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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926:Arya Samaj After Dayanand Saraswati
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398:Also, I would like to actually
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321:Misspelled but NICE SHADOWS???
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89:A Very Short Introduction
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785:Principles of Arya Samaj
724:Principles of Arya Samaj
277:religious fundamentalism
268:Criticisms Section Added
70:Religious Fundamentalism
887:Contemporary Arya samaj
279:by Ruthven (2007:108).
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976:Arya Samaj - etymology
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203:Theosophical Society
850:Humour Thisthat2011
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288:Activists include:
194:ISBN: 81-7871-002-1
847:इति इतिUAनॆति नॆति
745:Date of foundation
192:, Edt. K.C. Yadav
181:. New Delhi 1971.)
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1128:Demographics
1114:70.53.192.35
1108:— Preceding
1104:
1081:— Preceding
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1054:— Preceding
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1028:— Preceding
1024:
1008:Lokpal Attri
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982:— Preceding
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867:— Preceding
864:
827:
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809:Vincent Moon
805:
748:
721:
672:192.8.204.45
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446:A. S. Aulakh
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379:A. S. Aulakh
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1002:atma suddhi
948:Bladesmulti
666:—Preceding
349:Varoon Arya
313:Varoon Arya
259:Varoon Arya
240:Varoon Arya
144:Varoon Arya
129:Varoon Arya
115:Varoon Arya
100:Varoon Arya
36:This is an
790:Arya Samaj
728:Arya Samaj
577:Tat Khalsa
861:Rockstar?
732:Runningya
585:gurdwaras
61:Archive 1
1110:unsigned
1083:unsigned
1056:unsigned
1030:unsigned
984:unsigned
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832:Desasu11
668:unsigned
608:Thanks.
542:Sikhism.
522:WP:UNDUE
794:history
610:Aryaman
412:Aryaman
389:WP:NPOV
365:Aryaman
113:change.
39:archive
755:Sitush
581:Lahore
573:Hindus
565:Punjab
407:Samaj.
652:Gizza
635:Msalt
569:Sikhs
108:India
16:<
1138:talk
1118:talk
1091:talk
1064:talk
1038:talk
1012:talk
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967:talk
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937:talk
917:talk
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877:talk
836:talk
828:just
813:talk
759:talk
753:. -
751:here
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403:etc.
222:The
613:(☼)
415:(☼)
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368:(☼)
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50:.
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