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Talk:Area of a circle

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able to make the people around you understand it, then you should not proceed any further before rewriting. It may involve several rounds of back and forth before your argument is polished enough to be understandable. Once that is done, you should submit it to a mathematics journal. Posting your own research onto a Knowledge article is something that you should never do, even if the research is correct - that should be left to others. Best wishes,
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As you have been repeatedly told, this is original research, which is forbidden by Knowledge's core policies. You need to get your research published. After that, it needs to become notable. (Most research, including my own, is not.) After that, it can be incorporated into Knowledge. Until then, your
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If you want to contribute to mathematical research, the proper way to do it would be to do what all people do when they are starting out: First discuss your work with your friends and colleagues to make sure that your argument is written so clearly that no one could misunderstood it. If you are not
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r1=radius of the small circle; r3=radius of the larger circle; a=side of the small polygon; A1/P1=area/perimeter of the small circle; A2/P2=area/perimeter of the small polygon; A3/P3=area/perimeter of the larger circle; A4/P4=area/perimeter of the larger polygon; c=coefficient of the area/perimeter
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the concentric circles to straight strips". But in this case it is even worse because the next paragraph (dividing up a circle into triangles) follows a completely different idea. It would be better to let the reader be aware of this difference, like adding another picture of "dividing up a circle
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You've asked two digital superidiots. Please stop doing this. They may easily produce as long laudatory enunciations as you wish, based just on a statistical correlation of words you used in your question, but they have ZERO idea about abstract notions you use and their mathematical definitions.
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You have been asked not to edit earlier posts in talk page threads. Again, please just post a new, corrected version at the bottom of the thread. If this process seems cumbersome, because you are revising a large block of text, then please instead post that text in your
546:, you do not explain how c follows from a and b. And in fact, c is false: the sum of the areas of the four quarter circles (centered at the vertices and passing through a point halfway between the square's center and a side) is strictly less than the area of the square. 423:
You seem to miss the fact the proportionality coefficient between the area of a circle and the square of its radius is the same as between the circumference of the circle and its diameter (which is known at least since Archimedes). And that coefficient
2364:, you can remove the reference if you want. But I would leave the fact (that there is no better approximation with denominator <16604) there. The fact is routine to verify for anyone with computer literacy, so I would think it would fall under 926: 2290:
This is not a help page for mathematics. You might try asking on a site intended for that. Or you might read a calculus textbook section on integration in polar coordinates. There's a good chance that it will contain this exact example.
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Most probably Archimedes did not considered this approach, because he apparently understood, what he was trying to do. And if he tried it and then he left no notes about it, then it would mean the approach turned out counterproductive.
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of shell integration in turn depends on the formula of area of ring which apparently relies on the formula of area of circle. Without referring to shell integration, it is actually complicated to justify "one can
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Problem #2: Despite of the difference decreases between the polygons' perimeter, as the number of their sides increases, the actual value of their perimeter can only be calculated with endless fractions. (See
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is based on the assumption, that the circumference of a circle can be calculated from the difference of the perimeters of an inscribed and a circumscribed polygon. To test this theory, I start with squares.
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The first integral goes from - r to r, while the second goes from - π/2 to π/2, but when performing the trigonometric substitution, i got the integral from - x/sin θ to x/sin θ.
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and to estimate (bound from both sides) its actual value. Additionally, the more sides of polygons, the better estimation (shorter interval in which the sought value is).
1146:{\displaystyle r1={\tfrac {\sqrt {3}}{2}}*a;r3=a;P1=2c*{\tfrac {\sqrt {3}}{2}}*a=c*{\sqrt {3}}*a;P2=6*a;P3=2c*a;P4=6*{\tfrac {2}{\sqrt {3}}}*a={\tfrac {12}{\sqrt {3}}}*a} 1359:
This proportion enables to exactly determine the area of the circle between the squares and vice versa: the square between the inscribed and the circumscribed circles.
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the actual value of their perimeter can only be calculated with endless fractions. (See {\sqrt {3}} above for instance.) That means decrease of accuracy.
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Honestly, not an impressive result. Especially today, in days of super-computers, compared to a twenty-two–centuries–old result by
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And this has nothing to do with accuracy, because we can calculate values of roots as accurate (as many exact digits) as we want.
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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Unfortunately, I can't ask Mr Archimedes about it. I didn't find any notes about if he considered and dismissed this approach.
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research should not be discussed on Knowledge talk pages, because talk pages are for discussing impending edits to articles.
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Thank you for thinking along. I've added some extra explanation to support my theorem. Please note, that I'm not calculating
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Your definition of c and value of P4 is wrong, but no serious math journal would publish your work even if you fix it.
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One doesn't need a square root to get an 'endless fraction', a simple ordinary quotient is enough: 1/3 = 0.3333333...
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is based on calculating with 71 side polygons. Such determination is a rough guess between 4 and infinite.
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Please indent your entries properly. This helps much in following the talk when it forks into sub-threads.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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this ring by a rectangle". Anyway, it's still a good introduction paragraph to onion proof.
2391: 2348: 2296: 2240: 2221: 2148: 2095: 1397: 1387: 503: 437: 401:, what I'm doing, is comparing the circle directly to a square, instead of other polygons. 319: 286: 495: 1161: 657: 384: 2365: 2282: 1590: 1350:{\displaystyle A1=c*{\tfrac {a^{2}}{4}};A2=a^{2};A3=c*{\tfrac {a^{2}}{2}};A4=2*a^{2};} 2436: 2331: 2188: 17: 2281:
The text is correct as written. Citation would be nice, although this is arguably
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The properties of two sequences of perimeters allow us to infer the coefficient
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I don't know, if it was a 71, or a 96 side polygon, but that's not the point.
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The mathematical constant \pi is based on calculating with 71 side polygons.
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appears in the well-known result of Archimedes, who calculated the bounding
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Screenshot of discussing the area of a circle with a supercomputer (Bard)
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Screenshot of discussing the area of a circle with a supercomputer (Bing)
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There is a mistake in the first drawing: a side of the big square is
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I've asked two supercomputers about this. Here are their responses:
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File:Find_the_area_of_a_circle_by_cutting_it_to_four_quarters.jpeg
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Compare the content and the visible results in these three edits:
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Take the areas of the squares and the inscribed circles instead:
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As a result, the fourth equation in the second set should read:
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The number of the polygons' sides can be increased to infinite.
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Sentences #7 & 8 reveal an obvious misunderstanding.
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There is NO such assumption, and the coefficient named
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is NOT calculated from a difference of any perimeters.
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above for instance.) That means decrease of accuracy.
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Thank you. I've extended the proof on its talk page.
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of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
2386:First paragraphs of onion proof and triangle proof 2055: 2017: 1942: 1895: 1829: 1767: 1682: 1602: 1579: 1521: 1349: 1198: 1170: 1145: 906: 666: 393: 2266:How do I get the same bounds given in the proof? 2410:Similar problem lies in the first paragraph of 1427:The idea of the mathematical constant \pi is 1435:of an inscribed and a circumscribed polygon. 332:This page has archives. Sections older than 8: 1896:{\displaystyle A1:A2=A3:A4={\tfrac {c}{4}}} 1779:and all you can infer from this system is: 643:The following discussion has been closed. 632: 363:The following discussion has been closed. 352: 169: 67: 26: 2111:Thank you, the large square is corrected. 2036: 2009: 1988: 1982: 1967: 1961: 1914: 1881: 1843: 1786: 1755: 1720: 1713: 1696: 1671: 1643: 1636: 1619: 1592: 1570: 1565: 1509: 1485: 1480: 1338: 1304: 1297: 1273: 1245: 1238: 1221: 1189: 1187: 1163: 1123: 1100: 1024: 995: 939: 928: 891: 860: 831: 765: 724: 700: 689: 659: 629:Disproval of the mathematical constant pi 386: 455:Yeah. Yet, they're still proportional. 2326:Is the page linked there (published at 2259:Semicircle proof: bounds of integration 171: 141: 1158:Problem #1: The mathematical constant 654:The idea of the mathematical constant 342:when more than 5 sections are present. 1735: 1490: 7: 217:This article is within the scope of 2414:that it is complicated to justify " 160:It is of interest to the following 2185:LLMs cannot be relied on for facts 494:. Please find more description at 25: 2453:Mid-priority mathematics articles 2307:Can this ref be considered valid? 1458:Sentence #5 is clearly invented. 336:may be automatically archived by 237:Knowledge:WikiProject Mathematics 2336: 2335: 285: 240:Template:WikiProject Mathematics 204: 194: 173: 142: 30: 257:This article has been rated as 1943:{\displaystyle A2<A3<A4} 48:nominee, but did not meet the 1: 2245:17:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC) 2226:17:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC) 2211:16:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC) 2197:14:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC) 2179:13:25, 10 November 2023 (UTC) 1830:{\displaystyle A3:A1=A4:A2=2} 1423:Sentence #1 is false. Twice. 496:Help:Talk pages § Indentation 231:and see a list of open tasks. 2448:C-Class mathematics articles 2443:Former good article nominees 2378:23:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC) 2353:17:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC) 2311:Please see this addition by 2301:14:58, 16 October 2022 (UTC) 2276:14:44, 16 October 2022 (UTC) 1580:{\displaystyle a{\sqrt {2}}} 1433:difference of the perimeters 560:16:12, 20 January 2021 (UTC) 531:11:32, 20 January 2021 (UTC) 508:10:05, 20 January 2021 (UTC) 465:09:53, 20 January 2021 (UTC) 442:20:55, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 428:denoted by the Greek letter 411:20:42, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 2183:A wonderful example of why 2056:{\displaystyle 2<c<4} 1199:{\displaystyle {\sqrt {3}}} 916:I continue with hexagons. 131:Former good article nominee 2469: 2088:from old masters instead. 1468:No grounds for this claim. 609:) 08:00, 10 May 2021 (UTC) 583:20:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC) 96:WikiProject A-class review 56:. Editors may also seek a 256: 189: 168: 128: 70: 66: 44:Mathematics good articles 2429:05:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC) 2328:shreevatsa.wordpress.com 2153:12:03, 17 May 2021 (UTC) 2126:09:27, 17 May 2021 (UTC) 2100:21:20, 16 May 2021 (UTC) 2071:(who died circa 212 BC). 1406:13:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC) 1392:12:45, 16 May 2021 (UTC) 1376:09:27, 15 May 2023 (UTC) 646:Please do not modify it. 620:09:35, 15 May 2023 (UTC) 366:Please do not modify it. 263:project's priority scale 2390:The first paragraph of 1429:based on the assumption 492:Special:Diff/1001584067 488:Special:Diff/1001583999 484:Special:Diff/1001583645 220:WikiProject Mathematics 2320:Special:Diff/589555823 2057: 2019: 1944: 1897: 1831: 1769: 1684: 1604: 1581: 1523: 1351: 1200: 1172: 1147: 908: 668: 395: 339:Lowercase sigmabot III 150:This article is rated 2058: 2020: 1945: 1898: 1832: 1770: 1685: 1605: 1582: 1524: 1352: 1201: 1173: 1148: 909: 669: 396: 50:good article criteria 2035: 1960: 1913: 1842: 1785: 1695: 1618: 1591: 1564: 1479: 1220: 1186: 1171:{\displaystyle \pi } 1162: 927: 688: 667:{\displaystyle \pi } 658: 394:{\displaystyle \pi } 385: 243:mathematics articles 115:Good article nominee 2315:on 7 January 2014: 2143:and edit it there. 18:Talk:Area of a disk 2313:User:Ebony Jackson 2141:personal userspace 2108:{re|Mgnbar|CiaPan} 2053: 2015: 1940: 1893: 1891: 1827: 1765: 1764: 1730: 1680: 1653: 1603:{\displaystyle 2a} 1600: 1577: 1535:a number of sides! 1519: 1494: 1347: 1314: 1255: 1196: 1168: 1143: 1135: 1112: 1007: 951: 904: 843: 775: 736: 710: 664: 391: 212:Mathematics portal 156:content assessment 71:Article milestones 2419:into triangles". 2396:shell integration 2256: 2255: 1997: 1890: 1729: 1652: 1575: 1517: 1495: 1313: 1254: 1194: 1134: 1133: 1111: 1110: 1029: 1006: 1002: 950: 946: 896: 865: 842: 838: 774: 735: 731: 709: 626: 625: 597:comment added by 349:addition proposal 346: 345: 277: 276: 273: 272: 269: 268: 136: 135: 124: 123: 16:(Redirected from 2460: 2341: 2340: 2339: 2329: 2062: 2060: 2059: 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68: 38:Area of a circle 34: 27: 21: 2468: 2467: 2463: 2462: 2461: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2433: 2432: 2388: 2337: 2327: 2309: 2261: 2033: 2032: 2005: 1984: 1963: 1958: 1957: 1911: 1910: 1840: 1839: 1783: 1782: 1751: 1716: 1693: 1692: 1667: 1639: 1616: 1615: 1589: 1588: 1562: 1561: 1477: 1476: 1334: 1300: 1269: 1241: 1218: 1217: 1184: 1183: 1160: 1159: 925: 924: 686: 685: 656: 655: 644: 631: 622: 592: 564: 535: 512: 473: 448: 416: 383: 382: 374: 364: 351: 337: 326: 320: 294: 242: 239: 236: 233: 232: 210: 203: 183: 154:on Knowledge's 151: 106: 87: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 2466: 2464: 2456: 2455: 2450: 2445: 2435: 2434: 2412:triangle proof 2387: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2342: 2324: 2323: 2308: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2287: 2286: 2268:138.255.106.16 2260: 2257: 2254: 2253: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2228: 2165: 2160: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2131: 2130: 2129: 2128: 2115: 2112: 2109: 2103: 2102: 2089: 2072: 2065: 2064: 2063: 2052: 2049: 2046: 2043: 2040: 2027: 2026: 2025: 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447: 446: 443: 439: 435: 431: 427: 420: 415: 414: 413: 412: 408: 404: 388: 378: 372: 371: 367: 362: 361: 358: 355: 354: 348: 340: 335: 330: 329: 315: 314: 311: 310: 306: 302: 298: 297: 293: 288: 283: 282: 279: 264: 260: 254: 251: 250: 247: 230: 226: 222: 221: 213: 207: 202: 200: 197: 193: 192: 188: 182: 179: 176: 172: 167: 163: 157: 149: 145: 140: 139: 132: 127: 119: 117: 116: 112: 109: 105: 104: 100: 98: 97: 93: 90: 86: 85: 81: 78: 75: 74: 69: 65: 61: 60: 55: 51: 47: 46: 45: 39: 36: 33: 29: 28: 19: 2415: 2409: 2404: 2389: 2325: 2310: 2265: 2262: 2085: 2081: 2078: 2074: 2029:and finally 1557: 1544: 1538: 1531: 1530: 1529:, but it is 1472: 1461: 1455: 1449: 1442: 1432: 1428: 1426: 1420: 1417:Five points. 1412: 1366: 1361: 1358: 1216: 1211: 1208: 1180: 1157: 1154: 923: 918: 915: 682: 677: 653: 645: 593:— Preceding 544:your "proof" 429: 425: 373: 365: 333: 299: 291: 278: 259:Mid-priority 258: 218: 184:Mid‑priority 162:WikiProjects 130: 113: 94: 89:June 5, 2007 59:reassessment 57: 42: 41: 37: 2405:approximate 2392:onion proof 1471:The number 1398:PrimeHunter 637:WP:NOTFORUM 357:WP:NOTFORUM 234:Mathematics 225:mathematics 181:Mathematics 54:renominated 2437:Categories 2416:unwrapping 2400:derivation 2398:, but the 2394:refers to 2069:Archimedes 120:Not listed 2203:Gmac4247 2171:Gmac4247 2118:Gmac4247 2086:learning 2077:Please, 2075:Point 5. 1558:Point 4. 1539:Point 3. 1456:Point 2. 1421:Point 1. 1368:Gmac4247 612:Gmac4247 607:contribs 599:Gmac4247 595:unsigned 575:Gmac4247 538:Gmac4247 523:Gmac4247 476:Gmac4247 457:Gmac4247 419:Gmac4247 403:Gmac4247 292:Archives 101:Approved 2366:WP:CALC 2283:WP:CALC 2189:MrOllie 2079:please, 334:30 days 261:on the 152:C-class 79:Process 2362:CiaPan 2345:CiaPan 2293:Mgnbar 2237:CiaPan 2218:CiaPan 2145:Mgnbar 2092:CiaPan 2082:PLEASE 1954:hence 1587:, not 1450:exists 1384:Mgnbar 515:CiaPan 500:CiaPan 451:CiaPan 434:CiaPan 377:CiaPan 158:scale. 82:Result 40:was a 2332:WP:OR 1213:300px 920:300px 679:300px 2425:talk 2374:talk 2349:talk 2297:talk 2272:talk 2241:talk 2222:talk 2207:talk 2193:talk 2175:talk 2149:talk 2122:talk 2096:talk 2048:< 2042:< 2000:< 1974:< 1932:< 1923:< 1907:and 1504:< 1498:< 1402:talk 1388:talk 1372:talk 616:talk 603:talk 579:talk 556:talk 527:talk 504:talk 498:. -- 490:and 461:talk 438:talk 432:. -- 407:talk 76:Date 2360:Hi 1532:not 542:In 253:Mid 2439:: 2427:) 2376:) 2368:. 2351:) 2343:-- 2334:. 2299:) 2274:) 2243:) 2235:-- 2224:) 2216:-- 2209:) 2195:) 2187:. 2177:) 2151:) 2124:) 2098:) 2090:-- 1980:⋅ 1749:⋅ 1711:⋅ 1634:⋅ 1610:. 1501:π 1492:71 1488:10 1473:71 1443:pi 1404:) 1390:) 1374:) 1332:∗ 1295:∗ 1236:∗ 1166:π 1138:∗ 1127:12 1115:∗ 1098:∗ 1077:∗ 1053:∗ 1032:∗ 1022:∗ 1010:∗ 993:∗ 954:∗ 899:∗ 889:∗ 868:∗ 858:∗ 846:∗ 829:∗ 805:∗ 784:∗ 763:∗ 739:∗ 662:π 618:) 605:• 581:) 558:) 529:) 521:ok 506:) 486:, 463:) 440:) 426:IS 409:) 389:π 307:, 303:, 2423:( 2372:( 2347:( 2322:. 2295:( 2285:. 2270:( 2239:( 2220:( 2205:( 2191:( 2173:( 2147:( 2120:( 2094:( 2051:4 2045:c 2039:2 2011:2 2007:a 2003:2 1995:2 1990:2 1986:a 1977:c 1969:2 1965:a 1938:4 1935:A 1929:3 1926:A 1920:2 1917:A 1888:4 1885:c 1879:= 1876:4 1873:A 1870:: 1867:3 1864:A 1861:= 1858:2 1855:A 1852:: 1849:1 1846:A 1825:2 1822:= 1819:2 1816:A 1813:: 1810:4 1807:A 1804:= 1801:1 1798:A 1795:: 1792:3 1789:A 1762:; 1757:2 1753:a 1746:2 1743:= 1740:4 1737:A 1733:; 1727:2 1722:2 1718:a 1708:c 1705:= 1702:3 1699:A 1678:; 1673:2 1669:a 1665:= 1662:2 1659:A 1656:; 1650:4 1645:2 1641:a 1631:c 1628:= 1625:1 1622:A 1598:a 1595:2 1573:2 1568:a 1515:7 1512:1 1507:3 1483:3 1400:( 1386:( 1370:( 1345:; 1340:2 1336:a 1329:2 1326:= 1323:4 1320:A 1317:; 1311:2 1306:2 1302:a 1292:c 1289:= 1286:3 1283:A 1280:; 1275:2 1271:a 1267:= 1264:2 1261:A 1258:; 1252:4 1247:2 1243:a 1233:c 1230:= 1227:1 1224:A 1192:3 1141:a 1131:3 1121:= 1118:a 1108:3 1104:2 1095:6 1092:= 1089:4 1086:P 1083:; 1080:a 1074:c 1071:2 1068:= 1065:3 1062:P 1059:; 1056:a 1050:6 1047:= 1044:2 1041:P 1038:; 1035:a 1027:3 1019:c 1016:= 1013:a 1004:2 1000:3 990:c 987:2 984:= 981:1 978:P 975:; 972:a 969:= 966:3 963:r 960:; 957:a 948:2 944:3 937:= 934:1 931:r 902:a 894:2 886:4 883:= 880:4 877:P 874:; 871:a 863:2 855:c 852:= 849:a 840:2 836:2 826:c 823:2 820:= 817:3 814:P 811:; 808:a 802:4 799:= 796:2 793:P 790:; 787:a 781:c 778:= 772:2 769:a 760:c 757:2 754:= 751:1 748:P 745:; 742:a 733:2 729:2 722:= 719:3 716:r 713:; 707:2 704:a 698:= 695:1 692:r 614:( 601:( 577:( 569:: 565:@ 554:( 540:: 536:@ 525:( 517:: 513:@ 502:( 478:: 474:@ 459:( 453:: 449:@ 436:( 430:π 421:: 417:@ 405:( 379:: 375:@ 309:3 305:2 301:1 265:. 164:: 20:)

Index

Talk:Area of a disk
Former good article nominee
Mathematics good articles
good article criteria
renominated
reassessment
June 5, 2007
WikiProject A-class review
December 7, 2009
Good article nominee

content assessment
WikiProjects
WikiProject icon
Mathematics
WikiProject icon
icon
Mathematics portal
WikiProject Mathematics
mathematics
the discussion
Mid
project's priority scale

1
2
3
Lowercase sigmabot III
WP:NOTFORUM
CiaPan

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