996:, and I did see that you intended for that template to be the new norm, so I went back to all the AFL articles I had created for 2010 and put it in there. I didn't include the weather parameter, since that's obviously not a concern for an indoor football league. I also didn't include the TV and TV announcers parameters because I'm not sure about how the league is going to go about televising games that aren't on the NFL Network, and I thought putting NFL Network in there every time a game was get televised would be redundant.
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1376:. I've done merges before, but mostly on aircraft articles. I'm not that familar with the articles here, but I could do it. There aren't that many sections on the 2010+ article, so they can be incoporated fairly easily. The Lead will need to be rewritten the most, but should not be that difficult. I can probably do it tonight, as I'll be up late, but I'll wait a few hours to see if someone else is eager to do it. -
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502:. I believe there is now sufficient evidence to conclude that the current Arena Football League is the same entity as the previous incarnation. The teams, the ArenaBowl, the records, the history.... The AFL in 2008 shut down to restructure the league and its finances. The Arena Football 1 group came in and did that - the AFL is now restructured and playing again.
739:- This is the same league. One of the reasons for calling themselves the AF1 at first was to keep itself covered until they acquired the rights of the AFL and all of it's assets and intellectual properties. This league is using the same history of the league before the cancelled season so I support a merger.
1204:
I came across on their website. The important thing to me like it was a few months ago was how they portrayed themselves rather than what everyone's own opinion was. When one of their own articles states that the AFL is entering it's 23rd season, that's all I needed to see, because if it was a "brand
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I think this article should be subjected to a merge discussion (merging with the old AFL). Now that the first full season is done, I think it is a good time for evaluation on if the league is conducting as a new league or an old league. After this merge discussion, the whole matter should likely be
786:
The new AFL is operating as a continuation of the old AFL, under a new business plan. It was originally put together as a new league, but when they acquired the assets of the old AFL through bankruptcy, they decided to consider themselves a continuation. They have adopted the statistics and histories
708:
This is a new version of Arena
Football, cutting off the dead weight and moving forward- it's not the same organization, despite some old AFL teams being members of the current AFL. The old AFL is totally dead. As a note- please do not leave a vote if you're not an AFL fan- this should be voted on by
457:
At this time, I still find it very hard to tell if the league is operating as a new entity or if they are in fact positioning themselves as the relaunched league. At this time, we simply do not have enough evidence to say that they are the same. Even in regards to the argument above, I don't think
884:
I prepared one for the
Predators, if anyone would like to approve, disapprove, make comments, questions, suggestions, etc. It's pretty much the same layout as all the articles from the 2008 season, but the table for the schedule is different, and I left a few sections out for the time being just so
857:
but I've been listening to the live radio stream from the Rush's website, and the announcer keeps referring to it as a continuation. Although he's not a representative of the league, I would argue that if he was incorrect, he would have been corrected sometime before the 3 quarters they've finished
486:
When considering your positions on the issue, please take the following press release, taken from the official AFL website, into consideration. The wording, to me, is fairly clear cut that the league is considering the 2010 season as a "relaunch" rather than a new league. Lothar the
Terrible 01:39,
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yes, and this article even says "Chicago Rush and Utah Blaze also adopted their respective AFL teams' identities too. they are new owners, but advertised as the same former team." and also "With the league's purchase of the AFL's assets, it will use old AFL team names for any expansion teams that
1394:. This will make it easier to collaborate on the merger, and we can move it to the main page when it's completed. I'll try to do any work there tonight, and anyone else is welcome to jump in and do any needed work. If you want to edit for an extended time (30 minutes or so), be sure to add an
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we can look at everything as it stands now because of the constant flux that things are in. I think the best we can do is stand pat and adjust things down the road as news and information warrants. As of right now, I oppose the merger and suggest that the matter be revisited in the future.
174:
gives me the impression that this is the AFL resuming operations after suspending operations after the 2008 season, making the 2009 season simply a canceled season. They own all the assets, including team names (except for the
Desperados I guess), trademarks, stats, the Arenabowl name, the
1437:
Still a few more tweaks needed in trimming out the outdated material detailing the bankruptcy reorganization in "play-by-play"-esque fashion, as it's too detailed for an encyclopedia. I already removed the stuff about "future expansion" from the pre-bankruptcy era, as it became utterly
1422:, the merger is just about complete. If a few editors can take a quick look at the sandbox page to see if there are any major problems that need to be addressed first, that would be good. If it's fine, we can upload the new version sometime today (Sept. 1, US time). Thanks to all! -
826:. Since the two leagues are going to have separate articles, all of these links need to be fixed to point to the article about the appropriate league, depending on the context. I hope that all those who have participated in this discussion will assist in completing this task. --
523:. its an teleconference audio, in which they say that af2 aquired all the team names, records, and media. So, i think for the teams that take on the name of former teams, will be the same situation as the cleavand browns thing. and they do say "relauch of Arena Footbal League"
1454:
I didn't make too many major changes. That table under the "Expansions and contractions" section is a little tricky to me given the situation of the league and the teams from 2008 that, as far as I know, are inactive but haven't folded like the
Avengers and VooDoo did.
644:. I see af1 being a new league that wants to separate itself from the financial woes of the AFL. It combined the AFL and af2 to create a new league. I think there is historical significance in maintaining the current AFL and af2 pages until we see what becomes of af1.
296:
the merge. If the new league is actively advertising and presenting itself as a continuation of the old (continuing use of logos, nomenclatures, history and trademarks, etc.) then it only makes sense to refer to it as such. Lothar the
Terrible 21:12, 18 February 2010
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there aren't any blank sections ("Statistics" for example), that can be added in the future. Obviously certain aspects will have to be changed for each team. One thing though, instead of using scoring summaries for each individual game, I would suggest using
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articles. Earlier this month, I changed the layout to resemble the current general format used on the AFL, NFL and
American football articles. And it also allows us to have a standard template that can be changed from a central location in the
1469:
Well, I put a brief note calling "all other teams" suspended, which is accurate enough. The issue is 2010. The reactivated teams should be listed as returning, and the teams that came from af2 should be listed as new (as they were new to the
405:. The two leagues are indeed separate entities, but for most readers that is a legal technicality (which can be explained in an article) that has nothing to do with the information they are looking for. We do not have separate articles for
198:
I think it would be the same league since AF1 bought AFL and then decided to launch as Arena
Football league. To me thats just like how you would do for articles when they change owners. So, i believe they should be merged together.
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It might be possible to histmerge from the sandbox to the main page, but in case it's not, I've included edit credit for the users who participated in the merge in the edit summary. This should satify licensing credit, I hope. -
1553:(Aside) We should update the af2 article while we're thinking of stuff. There's still much written in the present tense, still a "Current" teams list (obviously outdated) and a few other elements that just need to be streamlined.
766:
the AFL purchased and owns the AFL's identity, history, etc... way to confusing and not practical to have two seperate sets of
Articles for the same league. It began as AF1 until the league gained control of the original AFL
1286:. As I stated before, all legacies and records have remained intact. As TampaBay721 mentioned before, the league's official website referred to the season just gone as its "23rd season", which culminated in ArenaBowl
758:- The Arena Football League is back. When they suspended operation for the 2009 season, their goal was to be back for 2010. They are back for 2010. It should be merged with the other one since it's the same league.
1229:, especially in light of the league's statements, including continuation of Arena Bowl numbering. It makes it obvious that the league does consider it a revival/continuation of the same league, not a separate entity.
720:
Support, on the grounds that besides a few fixes to the history page,maybe with a title that says bankupcy, meage with the af2 to from af1, renamed... etc etc etc, they are one and the same, dont need two
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article under the external links section redirects to this AFL's website, and the press release I provided calls this a "relaunch," so why wouldn't this just be an "under new ownership" situation?
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to the 2010 AFL season articles. I'm kind of curious how it will work here if you do intend to use them as the AFL season progresses. If you haven't looked at the template's page history or
435:
link. If the player is someone who was active in 2008 and is still active in 2010, which article should they go to? This is going to confuse people without serving any useful purpose. --
1225:(ec)The previous discussion seems to be have a slight favor towards merge. But it is largely from the before the season. Now, post-Arena Bowl, it is even more obvious the they should be
577:
R'n'B mentioned above is exacly what I was thinking. That was another merger that carried as well, setting precedence for a bankruptcy reorganization to carry through one article.
1015:. I hadn't planned on including scoring summaries for this year after how messy looking they all were in the 2008 articles, but the ones you referred to are much more appealing.
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Yes, let's let
Woohookitty take care of it if he can. I shudder at that part of the merge. Took care of the charts, including removing the self-redirects. What you guys think?
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573:- the league brass is certainly indicating that they consider it a continuation of the original Arena League. So have most press mentions I've seen thus far. The analogy to
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lists the goals scored in a collapsible row. As for the future of this template, I'm totally undecided if it should evolve into something that looks more like the other
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How would we explain the teams from the old AFL that only froze when the old league shut down? Since they might return someday, what should we describe them as?
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Well since no one has come to object to a merge in the last week, I think it's okay to go ahead and merge them. Now the question is, who wants to do the work?
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is only a proposed process at the moment. It'll have to be done here the way the old discussion began last time. Maybe keep this discussion open for 7 days?
841:
The Iowa Barnstormers website seems to imply that it's both a continuation and a separate entity, but perhaps the latter quote should be viewed as a sic...
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Though this AFL was launched as the AF1, they did purchase all of the assets of the old AFL, which includes debts. In doing so, the AF1 became the AFL. (
1005:
As for the collapsing, I think it would be better for a reader if the linescore was at least always visible and the scoring summary was collapsed like
787:
of the remaining AFL teams. I'm the editor of ArenaFan.com, so I'm intimately familiar with the situation, both the public side and behind the scenes.
1596:? I think there's too many overlapping edits for that to work. Leaving the page history here with the redirect is standard, and usually sufficient. -
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could be asked to repair all the links with Wikicleaner, since he did that to disambiguate all the links that needed to be disammed a few months ago.
543:
for now. Wait and see if the league actually gets going and gets going strong and how much history of the first league is embraced by the new league.
413:, even though they technically are separate legal entities. I could give several or even dozens of similar examples if needed. And, with respect to
673:
But that's the thing. It's not AF1 anymore. If they wanted to distance themselves from the old AFL, they wouldn't have renamed themselves the AFL.
596:
per Dincher, if this league uses records and stats from the original AFL then yes however if they don't then they should be taken as separate.--
1492:
835:
880:
So now that we're less than a month away from the start of the season, I think it's about time each team gets its season article created. In
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242:, for now anyway. As far as I can tell from the sources, AF1 bought the assets of/rights to the AFL, but it is a different organization. -
1536:
It looks fine to me right now. If there are any small errors, they can be fixed in the future whether soon or later, as with any article.
158:
now? Obviously there are about a dozen teams missing from 2008, but now that Arena Football 1 is the Arena Football League, why is it not
1078:
I agree with the pledge that this should be transferred into Arena Football League (1988-2008). Thanks for letting me submit my opinion!
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I would do it, but to be blunt I dont know how to start a merge discussion (or merge articles for that matter). Can someone do this?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Support (9): Tampabay721, Gman124, Lothar the Terrible, R'n'B, Oknazevad, Yellow Evan, BronchoKyle, Bhockey10, nolesrule
1246:- Now that it is clear that the league considers itself one, and we have reliable statements of such, we can merge. -
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as I'm writing this. Of course I have no idea what they're saying on NFL Network because that's not a channel I have.
1292:. All of these support to the ongoing promotion of this as a continuation of the former league rather than a reboot.
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Accordingly these will have to remain as two separate articles for the time being. However, there are nearly 1,000
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I had just gotten halfway through with creating all the 2010 team articles when I came across your edit to
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I don't think you can nominate an article for merge the way you can for deletion, not yet at least since
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at the time), It's going to be a big line on the chart, but that's to be expected. it was a big shakeup.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It does include original AFL's stats and records. It even has the same logo as the oringnal AFL..
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but its the same league, they are even saying that on their site that "Arena football is back"
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Oppose (7): BilCat, Crash Underride, WeatherManNX01, Dincher, Giants27, Botrain, Njshorts
377:, for now simply because it can be confusing as hell. Let's see how it goes for a while.
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new league" then it would have said it was their "first" or "inaugural" season, right?
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This name change confuses me, because why wouldn't this be considered the same as the
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Should we bypass redirect on all the internal links across Knowledge (XXG) that are
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Right know, there appears to be a consensus to merge. I support the merge.
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to the template so scoring summaries can be placed there, sort of like how
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clarifying my stance. (though i think i already said that above, i think)
431:. Say someone sees this template on a bio of a player and clicks on the
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I support. The answer is simple. It is the same as the original AFL.
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header so that no one else will try to edit the page. Thanks. -
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the two. since the current version considers it a continuation.
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The answer is simple. It includes all of its previous history.
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Note that I've put both articles together on the same page at
986:(since it's on my watchlist) that converted the linescores to
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849:." "The Rush return to the field after going dark during the
109:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
904:
I see that you have implemented the current version of
1047:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
125:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Arena Football League
1136:closed (barring a major change in information).
43:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1568:Redirect this article and do a history merge.
1050:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
918:, this template was originally modeled after
421:to merge the articles. For example, look at
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162:Arena Football League, and not like the way
958:2009 Baltimore Ravens season#Game summaries
1641:WikiProject Arena Football League articles
128:Template:WikiProject Arena Football League
58:
1392:User:BilCat/Sandbox/Arena Football League
1113:Agreed, I will merge per {{WP:ILIKEIT]].
962:2009 Indianapolis Colts season#Game notes
709:people who know something about the AFL.
824:contain links to "Arena Football League"
417:, I think it will be confusing as hell
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872:Merge them. The people have spoken.
103:This redirect is within the scope of
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7:
1156:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for merging
1041:The following discussion is closed.
964:, or a combination of both. Cheers.
1311:For reasons stated by those above.
851:one year hiatus of the original AFL
49:It is of interest to the following
490:The press release can be found at
25:
1493:Arena Football League (1987–2008)
938:One thing I might do is to add a
916:Template talk:Americanfootballbox
847:re-join the Arena Football League
822:articles on Knowledge (XXG) that
106:WikiProject Arena Football League
18:Talk:Arena Football League (2010)
1359:The discussion above is closed.
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807:Consensus - Support the merge:
323:open in former AFL markets."
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956:, the format that is used on
853:." Also, this is pretty much
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168:United Football League (2009)
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119:and see a list of open tasks.
1372:The older article is now at
876:The season is approaching...
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984:2009 Florida Tuskers season
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954:sports match box templates
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1418:Thanks to some help from
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1361:Please do not modify it.
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1330:for the same reasons.
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1374:Arena Football League
1368:Completing the merger
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411:General Motors (2009)
407:General Motors (1908)
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122:Arena Football League
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498:Changing my vote to
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1131:Reopen merge debate
1054:Closed as Merge. -
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715:Njshorts home
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1093:Combine them
1080:Canterbury21
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51:WikiProjects
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1538:Tampabay721
1505:Tampabay721
1501:Woohookitty
1457:Tampabay721
1438:irrelevant.
1347:Tampabay721
1207:Tampabay721
1160:Tampabay721
1017:Tampabay721
923:Footballbox
891:Tampabay721
860:Tampabay721
741:BronchoKyle
721:articles.--
675:Tampabay721
647:—Preceding
310:Tampabay721
185:Tampabay721
882:my sandbox
803:Next steps
472:Concur. -
455:currently.
276:Tom Danson
150:AF1 to AFL
1555:oknazevad
1520:oknazevad
1476:oknazevad
1440:oknazevad
1231:oknazevad
789:Nolesrule
769:Bhockey10
767:assets.--
579:oknazevad
391:Underride
1635:Category
1313:RonSigPi
1141:RonSigPi
1074:Move It!
661:contribs
649:unsigned
611:Contribs
41:redirect
1497:(2010–)
1198:support
1099:Bes2224
966:Zzyzx11
933:future.
832:call me
784:Support
764:Support
756:Support
737:Support
653:Botrain
571:Support
545:Dincher
500:Support
441:call me
403:Support
294:support
179:in the
1619:BilCat
1598:BilCat
1424:BilCat
1406:BilCat
1399:in use
1378:BilCat
1248:BilCat
1244:Suport
1227:merged
1056:BilCat
834:Russ)
706:Oppose
642:Oppose
617:WP:CFL
599:Giants
594:Oppose
541:Oppose
474:BilCat
453:Oppose
443:Russ)
244:BilCat
47:scale.
1614:DONE!
1328:Merge
1309:Merge
1289:XXIII
1284:Merge
1263:Merge
855:WP:OR
828:R'n'B
820:other
437:R'n'B
297:(UTC)
181:AFL's
39:This
1623:talk
1602:talk
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1269:Gman
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960:and
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527:Gman
508:talk
478:talk
464:talk
409:and
350:Gman
327:Gman
314:talk
280:talk
262:Gman
248:talk
223:Gman
203:Gman
189:talk
1592:to
1495:or
1472:AFL
1272:124
530:124
419:not
386:sh
381:Cra
353:124
330:124
265:124
226:124
206:124
160:THE
112:AFL
1637::
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