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1593:: this is a completely misguided proposal that does not benefit anyone or the articles. It creates confusion and creates unnecessary difficulties in accessing the articles where none currently exists. None of these pages should be moved as the names they currently have are accurate, well understood, not confusing, and easy to comprehend. It also smacks of treating Womens football as an add on subservient to men's football
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organization, and illustrate the organization's intended branding message in a way that words alone could not convey. There is commentary in the article about the logo itself as follows: "Logo of
Arsenal Football Club and Arsenal Ladies Football Club, used to illustrate the teams in articles about them and the teams that they field."
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themselves "XYZ Ladies
Football Club". Some of them calls themselves "XYZ F.C. Women". If any particular club operates a true one club policy where they simply refers to themselves as "XYZ" and only adding women when context requires, then sure, propose to rename that specific article. Mass standardised renaming is a no for me. --
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and the consensus established was that the file's non-free use in this article doesn't comply with that policy. So, if you'd like clarification or feel that should be re-considered, then you can discuss your concerns with the administrator who closed the discussion and removed the file. Continuing to
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The fact that the article explains there's an overlap of directorships between the Men's and Ladies Clubs suggests that the Ladies Club is subsidiary company? (Is part of the job of the men's
Arsenal team Cheif Exeutive to be the Chairman of the Ladies Club?) Or is the "affiliation" relationship more
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The kit seems identical, using the same logos and sponsors- which suggests either a strong legal relationship, or that it's simply part of the same club, (a bit like
Cardiff RFC, which is not really a separate club, but simply the Rugby Section of of Cardiff Athletic Club- which also has other sports
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Agree re above, having part support, part oppose to a list of 11 entries where some may stay as it is (e.g. Reading F.C. Women) does not fully bode well for the eventual page mover to decide which ones to move and which ones to stay. I didn't think too much about any problems when giving out my view
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Do them separately instead of those bunched up together where different outcomes appear likely per other comments. Looking at them very carefully, it's not all disagreement with what the nominator described and three of those pages have their full names with "women" in a different order compared to
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sources which support such a claim? If there are they perhaps the content can be moved to the body of article and expanded upon, and even attributed as needed; for example, "According to FIFA, ...", "According to ABC soccer magazine", "According to ABC newspaper", "According to
Twitter statistics,
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I had not been aware of this issue when changing the logo today (via IP, not logged in). Problem however is that this is the official logo of the women's team as well. The one including "Ladies" has been out of use since the club changed from being
Arsenal Ladies to Arsenal (Women), where women is
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Clearly the casual observer would assume given the logo is the same etc that the
Aresenal LFC is simply the Ladies team of the same club. (Akin to say most golf clubs almost all of whom have Gentlemen's and Ladies teams, but there is no question of them being separate clubs- generally speaking).
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for your first sentence, congratulations. The closest thing to an authoritative source in this discussion is the Women's FA Cup entries list linked to above, which disagree with your first assertion. That they are X Football Club (and only disambiguated by gender when needed) is simply factually
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sort these all out individually according to their proper names on the link in Hjk1106's comment above. Some teams are listed as Women F.C (in which case "Women" should be in the article title with a capital W) and some as F.C. Women (in which case "(women)" as a disambiguator with the male club
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A single sentence in the article like "In July 2017, the club rebranded as
Arsenal Women Football Club." even supported by sources would probably not be in and of itself enough to justify the non-free use of the (men's) logo; however, more sourced content about the branding change, in particular
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The sentence "Based on social media activity from the 2018–19 season, Arsenal's fanbase is the largest in the world." recently added to the lede seems to be quite an exceptional claim to make and surely something that requires something more than a citation to the team's
Twitter account (i.e. a
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In 2014 and 9 years later in 2023, this comment is absolutely incorrect and undeserving of a place in "active discussions". The men's and women's teams of
Arsenal Football Club have been a part of Arsenal FC since the inception of the women's team. The women's team is not a separate entity from
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The image is placed in the infobox at the top of the article discussing Arsenal F.C., a subject of public interest. The significance of the logo is to help the reader identify the organization, assure the readers that they have reached the right article containing critical commentary about the
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common abbreviation in context, just as "F.C." is. Could W.F.C. refer to something else? Sure, but so can F.C. We shouldn't standardising something that isn't standardised in reality. Some of these clubs refers to themselves as "XYZ Women Football Club" (changed from the days when they called
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wrong. We don't have to go back that many years to news articles of various clubs being renamed from X Ladies to X Women. We can play the "official name" game by me pointing out for example that West Ham United Women is registered at Companies House,
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The wording on this is vague, at time of wring (June 2014) it says the Arsensal LFC are affiliated to the Arsenal. The exact nature of the relationship is not explained. Is it in fact one Club as Arsenal, and Aresenal LFC is simply the Ladies team?
933:(the administrator who removed the file based upon the above-mentioned FFD discussion) for his take on things. Perhaps a new consensus can be established based upon the changes the team made in favor of allowing the file's use in this article. --
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I've just removed this sentence as the linked first-party source doesn't say anything about having the largest fanbase. It doesn't link to particular tweet, just the Arsenal WFC Twitter account. I'm not sure where that claim ever came from.
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This "discussion" topic is clearly the result of a misogynist who feels the need to isolate the women as "something else" despite the pride of players who grew up playing in Arsenal FC's academy as members of the club since childhood.
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I've had a look on some of the other articles of the teams who participates in the WSL and they have the logos used on there. The Arsenal website includes the team on their website so it should be fine in guideline with the other
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blanket renaming all women's teams to "(women)". Apart from the reasons mentioned already, some clubs English, notably Doncaster Rovers Belles and Sunderland, prefer the nomenclature "Ladies" to "Women".
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1325:: These different clubs have different names, so a standard abbreviation (or naming) is not appropriate. At the very least these RMs should be individually assessed and not bundled together.
1533:: Makes no sense. If any do need moving, which is unlikely, they should be done on a case by case basis. You wouldn't move the men's clubs to say Manchester United F.C. (men) would you?
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The following rule on the logos is - club logos are copyright so we can't use them anywhere apart from the club articles. This is certainly a club article so that should be used here.
1553:, you agree with changing article title(s) there but here you are asking them to stay put or do them separately. And the "Manchester United F.C. (men)" title makes no sense either.
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In regard to Arsenal, Women always appears before FC. Either abbreviated as Arsenal WFC or alternatively as Arsenal Women FC. Both Arsenal and UEFA refers to the team as Arsenal WFC
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for this year's FA Cup aligns with the current names). The mass name change only makes sense if convenience and symmetry at the expense of accuracy takes priority.
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Are you able to show on which discussion page this assertion has been made? It's a bit hard to respond to when you don't know the arguments which have been made.
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If this poster were correct, then it would similarly be appropriate to label the men's U-23, U-21, U-19, U-17, etc. teams as not being a part of Arsenal FC.
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late last evening. Once this discussion is closed, we can take Seany91's advice and do these RMs on the individual articles, not all on one talk page.
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re-add the file without doing discussing this with the closing administrator and following their instructions, however, is going to be seen as
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either a legal perspective or a practical one. From a legal, financial, and practical perspective these are two teams in the same club.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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the others. And we definitely don't have many club articles with brackets after the team names either (only a small percentage).
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to X F.C. (women). What each club chooses to call the women's team is a purely stylistic choice and is their own prerogative.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20131020034207/http://www.futaa.com/football/article/-arsenal-miss-champions-league-next-season
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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1610:: The official name of all these teams is the same as the men's team, as is the common name, but as the men's team is the
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seems correct). We shouldn't be trying to push everything to one standard, when 2 different cases exist for this teams.
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mass rename. Despite the comments on WT:FOOTY, these are not WP:COMMONNAME. Why does the "W.F.C." need expanding? That
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things having to do with WFC and the differences in badge/logo might. The best thing to do would probably be to ask
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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only used to differentiate from the men's team when needed (which is not the case here). Source:
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and they're certainly not registered under the name of "West Ham United Football Club". --
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akin to the relationships you see between firms using the same brand in Japan say?
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130315004551/http://rsssf.com/tablese/eng-wom01.html
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Knowledge:Files for discussion/2016 February 8#File:Arsenal FC.svg
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on the basis that this mass bundling is entirely inappropriate;
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That could work in that aspect with the naming of this article.
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https://www.arsenal.com/news/important-update-our-womens-team
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The Rationale of the logo specifically states the following
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This therefore covers the use of the logo in this article.
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is fine with me if the current article name is confusing.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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On 15 November 2021, it was proposed that this article be
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recently, I know the discussion is located on that page.
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http://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/awards_sports.php
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1022:requested move
1016:
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962:primary source
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765:Added archive
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755:Added archive
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648:Added archive
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546:
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532:the discussion
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492:Low-importance
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1363:Hear, hear!
1345:
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1322:
1284:CaptainBondi
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890:edit warring
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589:
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564:— Preceding
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317:project page
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40:WikiProjects
1032:move review
999:Lazer-kitty
970:independent
675:Sourcecheck
1675:Categories
1041:not moved.
829:Club Crest
819:Report bug
722:Report bug
321:discussion
1518:applies.
1203:Falastur2
983:Marchjuly
966:secondary
935:Marchjuly
898:Marchjuly
858:articles.
802:this tool
795:this tool
705:this tool
698:this tool
599:8.9.85.41
536:not moved
1616:WP:ATDAB
1578:Contribs
1442:Contribs
1310:Contribs
1258:Contribs
1226:Contribs
1064:contribs
931:Explicit
808:Cheers.—
711:Cheers.—
595:unsigned
566:unsigned
126:Football
59:Football
1608:Support
1523:Snowman
1482:Snowman
1390:Hjk1106
1365:Seany91
1327:Seany91
1238:Support
916:TheM NL
745:my edit
661:checked
626:my edit
494:on the
467:England
458:England
414:England
353:on the
153:on the
68:Arsenal
64:England
30:B-class
1591:Oppose
1531:Oppose
1491:Oppose
1455:Oppose
1409:Joseph
1382:Oppose
1342:Oppose
1323:Oppose
979:WP:UGC
975:WP:SPS
669:failed
36:scale.
1520:Giant
1496:Nehme
1479:Giant
524:moved
1652:talk
1624:talk
1599:talk
1574:Swan
1570:Iggy
1559:talk
1539:talk
1502:1499
1464:talk
1438:Swan
1434:Iggy
1419:talk
1414:2302
1394:talk
1369:talk
1355:talk
1331:talk
1306:Swan
1302:Iggy
1288:talk
1254:Swan
1250:Iggy
1222:Swan
1218:Iggy
1190:talk
1182:talk
1060:talk
1056:Elli
1003:talk
987:talk
977:and
968:and
939:talk
920:talk
902:talk
867:Swan
863:Iggy
848:talk
665:true
603:talk
574:talk
534:was
287:WOSO
1648:KTC
1576:) (
1440:) (
1351:KTC
1308:) (
1256:) (
1246:WFC
1224:) (
769:to
759:to
679:).
667:or
652:to
526:to
486:Low
345:Low
145:Mid
1677::
1654:)
1640:}}
1637:cn
1634:{{
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1346:is
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1169:→
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70:/
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785:Y
724:)
720:(
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688:Y
601:(
572:(
538:.
498:.
393:.
357:.
323:.
157:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
