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flawed historical evidence. For one thing, Abraham was almost certainly not a real person, but rather a mythical figure, so it hardly matters where he is said to have come from. Second of all, the story of a global flood is a widespread Near
Eastern myth that is by no means confined to Mesopotamia. It is highly unlikely that there ever was any kind of historical "Great Flood" and claims about the story having been inspired by flooding in Mesopotamia are nothing more than mere speculation; there is no reason to assume that a single historical flood underlies a story about a global flood and it is far more likely that people who were familiar with floods on a smaller scale simply imagined one on a cosmic level.
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and Ethics. Regarding the previous paragraph, Dr. Charles
Callaway also quotes Assyriologist Archibald Sayce. Regarding the first paragraph where I stated that the origins of the Jews is in the Near East, I have added all the required sources. The inscription found in the Assyrian Dictionary that I have added mentions, as in the article, that Yav, which is a linguistic variant of YHW, is also found in Assyrian sources, which I have added citations for. It is a worthy mention, supported by the context, for the purpose of affirming the claim in the first paragraph that the origins of the Jews are in the Near East. The gallery on top, is supported by all the sources in the paragraphs in the bottom.
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off-topic and has very little direct connection to the
Assyrian god Ashur. We need to keep this article on topic and lengthy digressions about the origins of Judaism are only warranted if we have sources saying that Judaism was greatly impacted by the cult of Ashur, in which case we would focus strictly on those influences, rather than going off on extended tangents about peripheral details. I hope you do not take offense to my response here or my removal of the material you added; I understand that you are
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The Yahweh comparison, based off two primary sources (a photo and a snippet of text. There's no sourced explanation of the connection -- in fact, there's no explanation at all. The reader is invited to take a look, make their own evaluation and interpretation, and jump to conclusions, all without any
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the Near East, right? At left is a map showing the territories of the former
Ottoman Empire, which essentially comprise the lands now known as the "Near East". Notice that the region includes the entire Levant, including Israel. Furthermore, your argument, aside from being completely off-topic, uses
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Sounds like they are two distinct deities that were subsumed in later times but their creation myths are different. There are other articles on deities that have more overlap but are separate; this one should stay separate, just needs better cross-reference so that readers of each article are aware
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The Ahura Mazda comparison, which stands on more solid ground, except
Iranica flatly rejects the notion that the faravahar represents Ahura Mazda. (We tend to follow Iranica's lead on this matter, too, so introducing contradictions between articles isn't ideal.) The Provencal source is relevant and
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You mention that
Mencken is a journalist, and that his treatise is regarding ethics and not history and is outdated, which you haven't citied. Either way, regarding the Mencken quote, Mencken is quoting Assyriologist Archibald Sayce, which is being quoted from the Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion
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A much more valid argument for
Mesopotamian influence on Judaism could be made using the fact that most modern scholars agree that much of the Torah was probably written and compiled by Judahite scribes living in exile in Babylon during the sixth century BC. In any case, however, this is extremely
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Statements on the talk page do not necessarily need to be cited if they concern obvious facts, such as that H. L. Mencken (a very famous journalist) was a journalist and not an
Assyriologist. It is only in the article itself that every single statement must be cited to a reliable source. Regarding
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and it effectively leaves the whole evaluation process to complete non-experts. I have now removed the section in question, which was written entirely by one editor, who seems ideologically driven to include it. I suspect the editor who added it will probably revert my removal of it once he or she
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legitimate similarities, but we would need modern, up-to-date sources written by respected scholars on the subject to support those similarities; we cannot cite fringe theorists to prove this point, nor can we just post pictures and "leave it up to the reader" because that kind of comparison is so
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I am removing the rest of the "similarities in Near East iconography" section; with the offtopic material and fringe sourcing removed it's still just a collection of statements and images that are never quite tied to the subject. NearEast, if you want to write a section about similarities between
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Is the god named after the city or the city after the god? This article says it is the former (and that the "whole heaven" reading of the god's name came very late), but the article on the city says that its name means "City of the god Ashur", so we seem to have something circular going on here?
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Mencken was also a journalist, not an
Assyriologist. He is uniquely qualified to comment on the state of American politics in the early twentieth century, but the history of the ancient Near East is not at all his area of expertise. Even if he were not outdated by nearly a century now, he
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interesting (although that page is about Cyrus's adoption of
Mesopotamian imperial symbolism, not about comparisons between Ashur and Ahura Mazda), but the nuances it introduces are making me think that the matter is best handled by expanding
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I'd like to see a little bit more convincing argument. Sure, it's good to ask this question, but do sources say they are literally the same thing or not? Ancient deities sharing attribtes is not at all uncommon. Also,
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thoroughly outdated by every standard. If the information you are giving is still relevant, you should provide a citation to a modern, reputable scholarly source (i.e., one written within the last forty years at
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was published between 1908 and 1927, a time when almost no Sumerian texts had been translated and our knowledge of the ancient Near East was still extremely minimal. (Indeed, for much of Sayce's career, the very
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the provided translation, and is nudged in a very strange direction indeed.) I also think it's worth noting that the claim that the drachm depicts Yahweh has been unable to stand on the
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finds out. Hopefully he or she will agree to discuss this matter civilly on the talk page rather than engaging in an edit war over this. --
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context or background except a slight nudge provided by the author. (In the case of the text snippet, the reader is actually invited to
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Mencken, however, there is no reason why we should quote from a non-Assyriologist citing an Assyriologist when we can just cite
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I am baffled by your attempt to argue that Judaism originated in what you call the "Near East". You do realize that Israel is
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Author Charles Ginenthal is not a academic reference. He's a fringe scientist and isn't specialized in History or Archeology.
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and cut out the middle man. Furthermore, you seem to be missing my other point: Archibald Sayce died in 1933 and Hasting's
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I know this is a little old by now, but I really don't think the remaining material can stand. There are two parts here:
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to cite on this subject. Furthermore, the first paragraph of the section we are discussing only cites one source, the
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Hey this article says that Ashur was the city deified but also that the city was named after him. That's impossible
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I have removed some of the material you added. Please consult my edit summaries for explanation why. Thank you. --
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to improve the encyclopedia, and sometimes my words may come across a bit harsher than I intend them to. --
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I've restored the Similarities in Iconography section, and I've added more than enough sources. --
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because, as far as I can tell, none of the sources cited in the section (of which only one - the
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Ashur and other gods, you need to cite some reliable sources that cover the subject directly. -
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and increasing the prominence of this article's link to that one, instead of covering it here.
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In addition the Mencken's book isn't a treatise about history but ethics. And is outdated.
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of the Sumerians themselves was still being questioned.) That makes Sayce and the
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The gallery at the beginning of the section is clearly
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