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illegal and a violation of our nonfree content criteria, which is a basic policy. Meanwhile, you're rendering text uncited; text must be cited to show where it comes from. The issue before was a stylistic thing: since a citation is presumed to cover everything that comes before it in a paragraph, repeated citations to the same thing are unnecessary — completely different from the one you removed, since there's no citation at all for the material you uncited. Finally, note that I said that I don't care how it's worded. Since I didn't have access to the source, I couldn't be sure that I understood what the source was getting at. Since you do have access to it, you'll be able to reword it properly. Finally, start heeding
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whereas the topic of the article is Austin Dabney, not
Georgia black patriot's graves. The reference information should be reworded to focus on the topic (e.g., to focus on Austin Dabney). Would the text "To the best knowledge of the organization, Dabney was the first black Georgia patriot from the period whose grave was marked." Or how about "To the best knowledge of the organization, Dabney was the first black Georgia militiaman from the American Revolution whose grave was marked." --
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1454:). Accordingly, I think the article needs to either (1) use the words "black patriot" (not an interpretation of what it probably means) or (2) state that he was the first black to be honored by the SAR in Georgia. If the words "black patriot" are used, they should be in quotation marks, and the rest of the quotation should be paraphrased (not quoted) and attributed to a member of the SAR, not to the entire organization. --
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1069:" will be brought to light. Why do you insist on including this quote instead of rewording it? You will note that I didn't say anything until I was told that I needed to respond to something; if I were hostile, I'd be trying to cause problems instead of enforcing our policies. Refer to featured articles, where you'll see that citations are not required after every sentence.
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1150:. Any reasonable, accurate reworking I can come up with would perforce include the quote "black patriot", since that is what the Son of the American Revolution said. I could rephrase it as "supporter of the United States" or some other inelegant synonym, but it seems pointless to me to paraphrase just for the sake of avoiding a direct quote.
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this context. I've searched in vain for a source confirming that he was the first black
Georgia soldier of the Revolutionary War to have his grave marked. The closest thing I've found is multiple repetitions of statement that this was the first time that the SAR had honored a black person in Georgia (
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Citing once at the end of a paragraph when one source is the basis for the entire paragraph is usually ok. It tends to read better than having several identical consecutive citations. The only problem is that with collaborative works like
Knowledge, things get moved around a lot, so that citation may
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Unfortunately, you also are distorting the meaning of the quote. The SAR are not saying that that it is a first for a black
Georgian, but rather that it is the first for a black in Georgia. Others may have been honored in other states before Dabney for all we know. Also, the second version restricts
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I don't think that the quote is being used for the truth of the matter asserted (e.g., I don't think the quote is being using as part of the text). The quote is expressing an opinon of the Sons of the
American Revolution. The problem is that the opinion is regarding black patriot's graves in Georgia
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be defended as a fair use quotation doesn't mean that it might not be better to paraphrase. I think there is a confusion of two issues; the availability of a non-copyrighted alternative isn't relevant to whether something is a legal fair use, but it may be relevant to
Knowledge guidelines, which are
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You're using the quote to describe the topic of the article. If you reword it, the article won't suffer at all: consequently, the quote is replaceable and thus not a fair use, regardless of whose words they are. I don't care what WP:QUOTE says here, because improper use of copyrighted material is
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I agree with
Noleander. There's plenty of evidence that when the SAR talks about "patriots", they probably mean "patriots of the American Revolution", which means people who served in some military capacity in the Revolution. However, we don't actually know what the SAR means by "black patriot" in
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I don't care how it's worded, but nonfree material may not be used on
Knowledge non-transformatively; it's a violation of our copyright standards, just like throwing in a decorative nonfree image. It would also help if you didn't remove citations for material that's otherwise uncited. Until the
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for us to guess what the source meant by "patriot". I suggest just using a quote from the source (and, no, it is not a violation of fair use) and name the source ("Bob Galer, a Sons of
American Revolution member" ) in the text, not just in the footnote. If there is another source that can be
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Calling your writing sloppy is uncivil? I've never heard anyone suggest a reference to the last sentence is supposed to cover everything in the preceding paragraph. Your conduct in this matter is so odd and hostile that if you do not desist, I will have to take this to
1374:@Clarityfiend: Do you think it would be better (presuming the quote were included) to identify the source of the quote in the text (not just in the footnote)? As in" "According to historian ABC, Dabney's grave was the first 'black patriot's grave' in ...". --
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it to
Georgia militiamen, something that is not stated. I suppose you could say, "To the best knowledge of the organization, Dabney is the first 'black patriot' to have his grave marked in Georgia", with "black patriot" in quotes. BTW, I've found a
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to win the Best Actor Oscar. True, but misleading just the same.) I don't see why you're so bothered by a single quote, but if you want to rephrase it without the unwarranted distinctions, go ahead and scratch your itch.
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not be lumped in with all of its associated material after the next editor takes a pass. (It's the same reason that citing to "ibid." is generally disfavored.) With a low-traffic, new article, it's probably fine for now.
1013:. To call using a properly sourced quotation (and they're not even the words of the article writer) copyright infringement is bizarre. And why do you not bother to respond to the issue of the sloppiness of your version?
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Well then, that doesn't apply to most of the paragraphs here, since they draw on multiple sources. In particular, it isn't the case for the second paragraph, the one I tried to improve.
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The quote that was included didn't violate copyright law. It's a pretty non-controversial application of fair use. That being said, Nyttend has a point: just because something
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Can you give me a guideline or example of referencing entire paragraphs with a single source at the end? I've never come across that practice before, not here, not elsewhere.
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designed to be more restrictive than the legal rules. Cutting the Gordian knot, to my eye, the paraphrase actually reads better anyway.
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Okay, first I've referenced too much. Now I'm doing too little? Make up your mind. More importantly, show me how I've violated
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forum, and I thought I could offer some assistance. Let me read over the issues above, and then I can ask some questions. --
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Question for both parties: Is the issue about whether the quote can be used in this article? Or in the DYK? or both? --
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wouldn't qualify as a patriot. Nor does it state the distinction was restricted to Georgians. (It would be like saying
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As I've already noted, the quote refers to a "black patriot". You cannot equate this to soldier; otherwise
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The quote at issue: it was "the first time that a black patriot's grave has been marked in Georgia".
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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copyright infringements cease, this will not be eligible for appearance on the Main Page.
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Okay. So is an editor asserting that the quote violates WP fair use regulations? --
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1146:"Patriot" is not the same as "Georgian soldier". Nyttend's paraphrasing is
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My repeated what? I see I'm not getting through to you, so see you at ANI.
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If I may (perhaps imprudently) stick my nose in, I wandered over from
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Tag the talk pages of Georgia (U.S. state)-related articles with the
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I edited the article consistent with the three third opinions. --
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that had his grave marked ..." then we can revisit this. --
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more Georgia (U.S. state) articles missing geocoordinate data
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Nyttend, you've been told by SwarmX that I haven't violated
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Knowledge requested photographs in Georgia (U.S. state)
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This article has been checked against the following
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1112:. It seems to me that you both are partly right.
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1462:) 17:33, 10 March 2013 (UTC) I see that
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40:WikiProjects
1388:Certainly.
882:check views
750:Structure:
30:Start-class
1511:Categories
1224:Uzma Gamal
480:Notability
191:U.S. state
1432:Noleander
1376:Noleander
1344:Noleander
1316:Noleander
1288:Noleander
1273:Noleander
1172:and here,
927:Knowledge
900:state of
872:Main Page
113:Biography
59:Biography
1197:WP:QUOTE
1030:WP:CIVIL
1011:WP:QUOTE
936:Accuracy
898:Southern
711:criteria
1428:soldier
1071:Nyttend
1034:Nyttend
997:Nyttend
902:Georgia
874:in the
608:on the
503:banner.
385:Infobox
354:Cleanup
260:history
233:on the
196:Georgia
1490:Orlady
1472:Orlady
1456:Orlady
1049:WP:ANI
322:Assess
36:scale.
1423:WP:OR
1180:DCB4W
1169:Here,
1148:WP:OR
1131:DCB4W
450:Other
424:Stubs
411:Photo
270:purge
265:watch
1494:talk
1476:talk
1470:. --
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948:and
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944:See
506:Get
441:and
331:and
255:edit
102:and
1118:can
600:Low
398:Map
310:,
225:Low
193:of
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