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never heard a FIFA official use the term 'association football' in an interview or comment, which shows its a bit clunky everywhere, hence the usage term 'football.' Its use in
Australia is opposed in the Aussie Rules states because of the more common use for the term to refer to Aussie Rules, but expecting worldwide soccer fans to not refer to soccer as football is unrealistic. That was my point earlier and still is. 'Soccer' also clarifies against other codes of football too, but some round-ball fans consider its use an insult to a dominant code by sporting heathens, hence the campaign to have the sports media refer use 'football.' Typically, zealots of all types want to use language to entrench their beliefs. I'd prefer tolerance. Note there is NO campaign to have the media refer to 'association football.' Its definitely safe and noncontroversial. And clunky. Any time anyone wants to use it they really should look at rewriting the sentence so they dont have to. Claiming something is Knowledge (XXG) standard needs a Knowledge (XXG) page that says so, and there isnt one, so its not standard at all. Claiming a standard based on wide use doesnt wash, otherwise the standard would be 'football.'
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21st century in
Australia. That campaign has been more successful in its use in the rugby playing states because the naming of football for Aussie Rules is much stronger. My argument was also horses for courses. I would suggest it is unrealistic to expect an Australian soccer article aimed at an international audience to not use the term 'football' for its sport simply because there are some Aussie rules fans who want to claim the word for their sport in Australia. Chipping the whole article for such use is unsympathetic and pointless at best. In any case that one sentence hardly constitutes 'a mess.' If you dont like it or doubt its accuracy in this very specific contaxt, then change it.
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its ridiculous. The fact that the other local sports were listed immediately afterwards shed enough clarity and put the popular name of the sport (football) in correct context, but the current edit does remove any controversy or contention at the expense of readability. Why thats not an issue in the text of the article but suddenly now is an issue in the discussion page is a bit strange. The AFl / soccer debate is highly relevant and is clearly mentioned in the article itself. The reason for not using the name
Kardinia Park in the bid document has nothing to do with corporate naming rights because Kardinia Park is a place, not a sponsor.
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subsequent votes, but the truth is quite the opposite, Newsweek alleges that for instance Qatar has bribed 10 Fifa officials = with 10 million US dollar bribe each, Newsweek has also stated that it'll be publishing whole story in due course, Sepp
Blatter is among Fifa officials that have been bribed, if allegations prove to be true, Septic Bladder and all other fifa officials involved in vote bribe scandal could face criminal charges and long spell in prison if found guilty.
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from something already existing, is both dishonest and potentially confusing for someone who knows a little about stadia in
Australia. In another part of the article there is mention of "The development of Kardinia Park (Skilled Stadium) in Geelong..." without even connecting it to the place called Geelong Stadium elsewhere in the article. As I said at the top of this section, what a mess! I shall start trying to make some sense of it all for less well informed readers.
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league, and only colloquially called football. In any case this is a soccer article aimed at a worldwide audience, so I think the expectation that those millions (billions?) of people who call soocer 'football' all change their ways is not realistic. Even soccer fans in
Australia call it football, so what do you expect in an Australian soccer article? And what does that (what people call soccer/football) have to do with marketing? Its more sporting culture isnt it?
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change the language here. This has clearly stalled in the Aussie Rules states. And in saying the the two rugbies are only know as football colloquially just proves my point. Around the world I can think of seven professional codes that are locally known as football. The extras outside
Australia are American football, Canadian football and Gaelic football. There may be more. As one of at least seven,
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Gimme a break - how would a couple of games in NZ increase the number of votes from one up to enough to win the bid? And why not Darwin? My first guess would be that Manaus is a city of two million plus people, whereas Darwin is a large country town of less than 150,00. Any World Cup level stadium in
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A joint bid
Australia-New Zealand would have a lot more chances of success. It's time for having a world cup in countries like Australia, Zew Zealand (toguether) and Canada. Also why wasn't Darwin in the venue list? If matches were played in Manaus, right in the middle of the Brazilian Amazon jungle,
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Most people use football to describe the code they are most into, and has been used by hardcore soccer fans in
Australia throughout the 20th century. However it is true to say the campaign to use the football term for soccer in the media, and in the face of more popular local codes intensified in the
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The language thing is a matter of horses for courses. Yes, the World Cup bid can be full of marketing hype. I would not and did not argue otherwise. But this is an encyclopaedia. It should aim for a little more accuracy and rationality. The sport you have referred to as soccer is most commonly known
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is completely neutral. It's been the non-commercial, neutral name for the place since 1872. No sponsorship involved at all. The
Australian Football Club that uses the ground has, in recent years, accepted sponsorship for a different name (currently Skilled Stadium), but that's not what I am proposing
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Newsweek has uncovered evidence in alleged bribe scandal regarding votes for 2022 and 2018 world cup, Newsweek has reported that it has highly placed source who confirmed that World Cup votes were rigged so as to make that there was a a fair play in voting process when Qatar and Russia won the their
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The topic isn't especially important and the argument is totally semantic, but that doesnt make it nonsense. The words people use for things can be very important. Knowledge (XXG) cant be a valid reference for much more important reasons than that. Everyone has biases, academia especially. And fail
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I never said it was smart, I said that expecting otherwise is unrealistic. Expecting common use of 'association football' is even more unrealistic. I also hinted that only zealots would be offended by the use of 'football' for the 'wrong' code, but of course I'd only ever hint at that and never say
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is used extensively in Knowledge (XXG), especially where there is any possibility of confusion, but in many other articles as well. It's not controversial. It is the name used by FIFA. (It's what the FA bit stands for.) In Australia it is a bit clunky. That's because by far the most common name for
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The naming of Kardinia Park was wrong because the source was wrong and now its fixed. Fabulous. As for the naming of the sport, using association football might be technically correct, but its a clunky name that no-one uses. Saying the game is 'best known' as association football is not just wrong,
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for the game known generally as soccer in Australia, that's what should be used in the article. As for the Geelong ground (and no doubt others), the name used in the bid is simply wrong. It's obviously used for marketing purposes, but to not even acknowledge that they are renaming it for the event,
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Easy, tiger. The name on the bid website is Geelong Stadium. If that happens to be wrong, fix it, but I dont know if calling the whole FFA bid 'marketing garbage' is very helpful. Four sports called football? OK, I'm stuck at Aussie Rules and soccer. The rugby codes are called rugby union and rugby
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I find obsessive soccer fans very difficult to have rational discussions with. It could have been a minor issue if the page had been created they way you have now set it up, or if other fanatics had been willing to accept change and stop arguing dumb positions like "no sponsor links" when that was
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Association football is so not controversial it borders on the overly technical. I never said it was controversial, I said the opposite, that its use removes controversy. The controversy, apparently, is the use of the term 'football.' The A in FIFA most certainly stands for Association, but I have
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on Knowledge (XXG). That's what the FA on the end of FIFA stands for, following the French language convention of putting the adjective after the noun. The use of the word football to describe soccer in Australia has only grown since the establishment of FFA in the early 2000s, and its attempts to
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Because there are several forms of football, wise and impartial editors avoid the term in articles where more than one code will be mentioned, substituting a non-offensive alternative for EVERY code. Thus we have rugby league, rugby union, American football, Association football, Gaelic football,
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This whole debate is nonsensical As I have already said it is clear that this article is referring to the round ball game and this is why I detest wikipedia, people can't step outside of their own own subjective bias to edit an article and that is why wikipedia fails at being a relevant academic
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Soccer debate is irrelevant to this article, furthermore it adds subjective bias and your own views may not dictate the views of myself, or anyone else. Furthermore the stadium names follow a FIFA convention that states that all stadiums must be referred to in a sponsor neutral manner during the
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The article says "Of the Australian stadia that meet FIFA's seating criteria, none are primarily football venues." For an article about Australia, that's a really dumb thing to say. There are four professional games known as football played in Australia. At some stage someone is going to have to
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solve the problem? Kardinia Park isn't the first and certainly won't be the last stadium to be known by a different name for the World Cup. Also a question - Perth, Canberra and Blacktown are "new stadiums". Why do they have existing capacities listed? I understand the new Perth and Canberra
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Kardinia Park). I have also removed the capacity figures for stadiums yet to be built. RE: the debate on association football vs just 'football', the current naming convention on Knowledge (XXG) is for it to be called Association football, just as Aussie rules is called Australian football and
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irrelevant. Thank you. It now makes some sense. Until now, an outsider looking for information elsewhere on several of those stadiums would have found nothing, because no stadiums with such names existed. And the article DID NOT make the appropriate links. Now it does. Excellent.
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confront the reality that says that the most frequent sport played at the Melbourne Cricket Ground (and several of the other venues) is known to the locals as football. It's not the game this article is about. Again, can we drop the marketing hype and sort it out please?
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Thank you for that comment. You may "have already said" but we have no idea who YOU are. Apparently you forgot to log on. What do YOU plan to do about the Geelong Stadium/Kardinia Park problem? (Oh, and do be careful what assumptions you make about others here.)
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This article still reads like a marketing pamphlet, which clearly the original authors intended. For instance, why is it necessary to mention the bid partners? That's just marketing, in what whay is that important to an encyclopaedic entry?
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Well, since I'm not offended, I guess it means I'm not one of those evil zealots. And obviously a zealot in support of one code would not be recommending a neutral term for every code. I just want to see a better encyclopaedia.
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I reverted an addition from an IP editor declaring that the news was met with disappointment in Australia, simply on the basis that it's hardly notable. My revert has now been reverted with a rather rude Edit summary.
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How do you figure? The opening paragraphs mentions dates, the stadiums in the bid are listed and described, and then there's sections about criticisms of the bid. I hope you dont try to market anything like that...
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Right now I'm putting more of my thought into sorting out an article that in one place speaks of Geelong Stadium, and in another mentions Kardinia Park, without any explanation that they are one and the same place.
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According to the table, both Melbourne Cricket Ground and Stadium Australia were planned for the final match. Is that correct? (It might not have been decided, so it's not impossible, but it seems strange.)
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Most of this article appears to have been directly copied from the website www.australiabid.com.au. I have changed some names of stadiums to reflect their non-sponsorship name (eg 'Geelong Stadium'--: -->
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We do not need to get into the whole association football argument hear, for the purpose of the event we all know that the sport being referred to is the round ball game and not the egg ball game --
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what exactly? A test of relevance? Of logic? Or of sensible tolerance? I must say I've enjoyed this inane discussion on this silly little topic immensely. Thank you all for your contributions.
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If they made it a joint bod for just one or two games in New Zealand, it really wouldn't be worth it and as Mdw0 said, it would made the whole qualification things be different.
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When was Kardinia Park in Geelong renamed Geelong Stadium? OK. I'll answer that one. It hasn't been. It's pure marketing garbage. Knowledge (XXG) should not be led by salesmen.
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Canadian football is called Canadian football. This is done to avoid confusion between names, especially in countries where soccer is not the dominant code (eg Australia).
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See comment above re neutrality of the name. My older but nearest comment just above is about the inconsistency within the article. You seem to have ignored that point.
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We should remember that this is an encyclopedia as such we should follow standard conventions, the game is best known as association football global, the whole AFL : -->
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During the world cup sponsors naming rights, etc are irrelevant, stadiums are known by a neutral name unless a company decides to buy the naming rights during the cup --
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any talk or suggestion on having some games, be it exhibition or warm up, in New Zealand? I think they should at least give them a little bit, no matter how small.--
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I agree with this. Bids are made from countries, not from the people who inhabit them. It also avoids ambiguity when more than one country is bidding.
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Does anyone know what stadiums have been selected for training purposes and what degree of investment will be going into those stadia?
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This will do from me for starters. It would be nice if someone else without round ball blinkers could have a look at this article too.
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is unsuitable because of the multiple codes using that name in the country. (I note that one part of the article spoke of having
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source. It's also why the majority of you arguing about this would fail if you were put in an academic environment. --
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Is "edition" really the right word for an occurrence of the World Cup? I have never seen it used that way before.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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duration of the world cup therefore for the purposes of the World Cup the stadiums are referred to as such --
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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No, because that would imply they were joint hosts and would give the NZ team automatic qualfication.
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Australian football, Canadian football, etc. That approach is the neutral one. Using the simple name
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This article really hasn't had much attention from people not obsessed with this bid, has it?
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works. It's non-controversial. It's safe. It's Knowledge (XXG) standard. We should use it.
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Given that the standard across Knowledge (XXG), as I explaned above, is to use the name
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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Darwin would be a grossly extravangant forever-unfilled white elephant.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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I have followed Knowledge (XXG) and FIFA convention and changed the
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to mean one particular code, for games in Australia, is not smart.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Just looked at it for the first time, and have a few questions...
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What obsessives are rational? Apart from obsessive rationalists?
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What a lot of discussion on what is really a minor issue. Does
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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why not Darwin, when Australia organizes a world cup?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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must be better identified in a global encyclopaedia.
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http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=239
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40:WikiProjects
1692:Fomalhaut76
1605:Sourcecheck
1397:—Preceding
1364:Devastation
1264:New Zealand
1061:—Preceding
634:Orestes1984
604:Orestes1984
423:Orestes1984
385:Orestes1984
347:—Preceding
30:Start-class
1708:Categories
1675:Report bug
1387:Corruption
1231:. Per nom
1658:this tool
1651:this tool
1520:this tool
1513:this tool
1151:Theurgist
948:this edit
703:footballs
678:The name
133:Australia
120:Australia
59:Australia
1664:Cheers.—
1526:Cheers.—
1459:cbignore
1399:unsigned
1327:unsigned
1105:Kotniski
1063:unsigned
771:football
699:Football
695:football
691:Football
438:football
349:unsigned
292:Football
239:Football
1591:checked
1558:my edit
1536::Online
1488:checked
1453:my edit
1145:" and "
319:on the
182:at the
160:on the
1599:failed
1467:nobots
1431:(talk)
1374:HiLo48
1221:Bozzio
1008:Bozzio
969:HiLo48
957:(talk)
910:HiLo48
879:HiLo48
851:HiLo48
775:HiLo48
711:HiLo48
687:soccer
638:HiLo48
619:HiLo48
579:HiLo48
515:HiLo48
463:HiLo48
446:HiLo48
404:HiLo48
36:scale.
1304:Jaume
1233:Mhiji
1229:Agree
1696:talk
1595:true
1492:true
1427:Chuq
1407:talk
1378:talk
1353:talk
1349:Mdw0
1335:talk
1290:talk
1286:Mdw0
1274:talk
1237:talk
1225:talk
1155:talk
1141:", "
1133:and
1109:talk
1071:talk
1044:talk
1040:Mdw0
1027:talk
1012:talk
992:talk
988:Mdw0
973:talk
953:Chuq
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930:Mdw0
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815:talk
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642:talk
632:And
623:talk
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547:talk
543:Mdw0
519:talk
486:talk
482:Mdw0
467:talk
450:talk
427:talk
408:talk
389:talk
357:talk
208:help
201:The
122:and
1632:RfC
1609:).
1597:or
1582:to
1572:to
1479:to
1251:.
705:!)
697:at
504:as
311:Low
152:Low
1710::
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1640:}}
1636:{{
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1465:{{
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186:.
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130:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
