240:
219:
1111:, we added that disambig to the title. And guess what? All those problems went away. So it doesn't really matter if the conference is the "only topic (the phrase) could realistically refer to" as you say. The fact is, many editors have, over time, taken the phrase to mean something other than the conference. Which is fine, and is already discussed across our other climate pages. With disambing in place, editors are working on those concepts at the appropriate pages instead of duplicating those efforts here.
113:
92:
123:
376:
324:
61:
32:
618:
581:
544:
497:
disambig added to the article title. So please put it the way you think best, as my reasoning may be stale and outdated. Thanks for a polite inquiry and I apologize for getting in the way during my lonnnnng wikibreak. I had just stopped by to see messages and got sucked in a bit. You know how that is....
1013:
and I already articulated it in my prior comment. Since you must not really be reading replies I will repeat it for you again. 'Avoiding
Dangerous Climate Change' is the primary purpose of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the redirect should point to the main discussio
496:
Actually I think you're right after all. I've been a climate editor for a long time and there were some debates here and I seem to think at another venue about this one's scope. I think I reverted to a legacy hatnote that served a purpose, but that purpose has been supplanted by the parenthetical
1032:
The original text of
Article 2 talks about "stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that would prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system". Nowhere does it use the exact text "Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change". When I google the term I
1106:
than the conference, however, I've been watching this article for years. Prior to adding disambiguation there was a regular experience of editors working to turn this article into discussion of the concept. And those efforts were always duplicative and sometimes POVFORKing of our other climate
771:
presently redirects here, but it should be retargeted to the main treatment of that subject. Avoiding dangerous climate change is the primary purpose of the United
Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the main treatment of this key part of the treaty is at
445:, but I don't understand your edit summary "not useful. If you feel such notes need to be memorialized for editors use invisible inline comments". The previous hatnote says "This article is about the conference. For the concept of avoiding climate change, see
885:
that the conference is the primary topic here. "Avoiding
Dangerous Climate Change" seems like a very strange term to search for if you're just looking for an article on climate change. Anyways, if you are interested in a result please participate in
793:- The general concept of climate change adaptation and mitigation is a different thing than what people are probably expecting when they search "Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change" given, as stated above, the capitalization and particular language.
972:"Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change" is an acceptable title for the conference because it is the actual name of the conference. It is not an acceptable title for a scientific article on climate change because it is not neutral as a
707:– Given the all-caps and non-neutral title, there is very little risk that the reader would confuse this for an article on the scientific topic of climate change rather than a proper noun. Hence disambiguation in unnecessary.
42:
389:
299:
767:
First there is prior consensus that this article is about a conference. I don't care what we call this so long as the title makes the scope clear that its about the conference. Second,
1033:
see results for the conference, some books/papers with that titles, some sentences using it literally (in lowercase) in a sentence, but nothing identifying it as a catchphrase of the
976:. Hence the only topic that "Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change" could realistically refer to is the conference, and the "(2005 conference)" disambiguator is therefore unnecessary per
958:
Then either you've got confused (by coming here from the redirect) or I am. If there's no NPOV problem with the article or title as it currently stands, why did you ever mention it?
887:
629:
592:
555:
1034:
1015:
773:
339:
698:
474:
462:
303:
290:
1179:
280:
201:
1184:
1169:
191:
256:
167:
1174:
247:
224:
1164:
611:
574:
537:
1051:
998:
947:
904:
721:
140:
97:
664:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
149:
768:
551:
470:
239:
218:
850:'s points seem very fair to me. The suggested retargeting of the redirect also seems fair. The 2016 discussion seems reasonable.
481:"? Answer – they probably wouldn't, but it's mentioned in the 2nd sentence of the lead. Please explain your reversion further.
358:
331:
72:
963:
920:
872:
1149:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
354:
163:
1120:
1057:
1027:
1004:
967:
953:
924:
910:
876:
859:
833:
802:
785:
755:
727:
691:
685:
641:
604:
567:
527:
506:
490:
135:
1094:
Since I'm not formally pushing for a retarget I'm not bothering to do research to defend my opinion on that. I remain
655:
38:
798:
419:
1116:
1023:
867:: per NAEG: this article is about the conference. If you want an article on the topic, then create a different one
829:
781:
751:
502:
959:
916:
868:
466:
454:
446:
398:
346:
153:
1046:
993:
942:
899:
716:
402:
665:
458:
453:." My (shorter) version says ""Avoiding dangerous climate change" redirects here. For the wider concept, see
78:
637:
600:
563:
523:
486:
1102:
for another reason - the current title serves a purpose. You claim that it can't reasonably mean anything
157:
815:
794:
357:
may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
350:
1112:
1019:
847:
825:
777:
747:
513:
498:
436:
255:
on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
915:
Why is there any NPOV problem with the title? It is a perfect description of the article / conference
17:
981:
977:
156:
articles on environment-related topics, as well as to ensure that environment articles are properly
60:
31:
1041:
1038:
988:
985:
937:
934:
894:
891:
737:
711:
708:
668:
after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
145:
633:
596:
559:
519:
482:
449:. For the international treaty committing nations to work to avoid dangerous climate change, see
404:
128:
973:
112:
91:
824:
of this article is the 2005 conference. Are you proposing we change the scope of the article?
746:
of this article is the 2005 conference. Are you proposing we change the scope of the article?
882:
680:
400:
375:
122:
855:
1107:
pages. Much time and effort was spent. Finally, with agreement that this was about the
1037:. If you have any sources showing that is the case, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. --
933:. No one would ever expect to find an actual article on climate change at the title. --
335:
252:
473:" redirects here; so the hatnote should say so. Similarly, "Why would anyone come to "
1158:
323:
888:
Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 April 19#Dangerous global warming
298:
If you are looking for ways to improve this article, we recommend checking out our
675:
851:
118:
1011:"topic that 'Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change' could realistically refer to"
1016:
United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Change#Interpreting_article_2
774:
United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Change#Interpreting_article_2
617:
580:
543:
588:
881:
My point is that the title is so unsuitable for an actual article per
625:
450:
776:. "Avoiding dangerous climate change" should point there, not here.
478:
405:
369:
318:
54:
26:
890:
as the results of the two discussions are interdependent. --
624:
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
587:
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
550:
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
616:
579:
542:
673:
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move
345:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the
334:
procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
703:
442:
1035:
United
Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change
251:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
699:
Avoiding
Dangerous Climate Change (2005 conference)
475:
Avoiding
Dangerous Climate Change (2005 conference)
463:
Avoiding
Dangerous Climate Change (2005 conference)
1009:False and dead wrong. There is indeed another
536:"Stabilization of greenhouse gases" listed at
413:This page has archives. Sections older than
144:to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of the
8:
461:I asked myself: "Why would anyone come to "
654:The following is a closed discussion of a
265:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Climate change
213:
86:
215:
176:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Environment
88:
58:
1180:Low-importance Climate change articles
1010:
423:when more than 5 sections are present.
18:Talk:Avoiding dangerous climate change
7:
430:Edit reversion of changes to hatnote
245:This article is within the scope of
1185:WikiProject Climate change articles
1170:Low-importance Environment articles
929:Yes, it is a perfect title for the
268:Template:WikiProject Climate change
77:It is of interest to the following
41:on 9 February 2016. The result of
25:
1145:The discussion above is closed.
769:Avoiding dangerous climate change
704:Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change
552:Stabilization of greenhouse gases
471:Avoiding dangerous climate change
417:may be automatically archived by
374:
322:
238:
217:
179:Template:WikiProject Environment
164:Knowledge (XXG):Contributing FAQ
121:
111:
90:
59:
30:
1175:B-Class Climate change articles
285:This article has been rated as
196:This article has been rated as
37:This article was nominated for
166:and leave any messages at the
1:
359:contentious topics procedures
259:and see a list of open tasks.
1165:B-Class Environment articles
647:Requested move 15 April 2020
1201:
1121:11:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
1058:04:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
1028:03:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
1005:17:46, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
968:16:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
954:13:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
925:13:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
911:13:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
877:12:43, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
860:11:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
834:10:03, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
803:05:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
786:20:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
756:10:03, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
728:15:36, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
692:16:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
642:10:32, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
605:10:32, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
568:10:26, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
528:09:56, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
507:14:59, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
491:10:12, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
347:purpose of Knowledge (XXG)
291:project's importance scale
248:WikiProject Climate change
202:project's importance scale
518:Thanks, and best wishes.
467:Climate change mitigation
455:Climate change mitigation
447:Climate change mitigation
361:before editing this page.
297:
284:
233:
195:
106:
85:
1147:Please do not modify it.
820:By prior consensus, the
742:By prior consensus, the
661:Please do not modify it.
628:. Please participate in
612:Redirects for discussion
591:. Please participate in
575:Redirects for discussion
554:. Please participate in
538:Redirects for discussion
355:normal editorial process
632:if you wish to do so.
630:the redirect discussion
595:if you wish to do so.
593:the redirect discussion
558:if you wish to do so.
556:the redirect discussion
342:as a contentious topic.
271:Climate change articles
141:WikiProject Environment
138:article is part of the
621:
584:
547:
465:" but really wanting "
420:Lowercase sigmabot III
351:standards of behaviour
148:. The aim is to write
67:This article is rated
765:Opposed and Different
620:
583:
546:
469:": answer — because "
71:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
960:William M. Connolley
917:William M. Connolley
869:William M. Connolley
573:"550 ppm" listed at
457:." Bearing in mind
182:Environment articles
610:"550ppm" listed at
300:recommended sources
136:environment-related
622:
585:
548:
332:contentious topics
129:Environment portal
73:content assessment
974:descriptive title
816:CoffeeWithMarkets
795:CoffeeWithMarkets
427:
426:
366:
365:
338:, which has been
317:
316:
313:
312:
309:
308:
212:
211:
208:
207:
168:project talk page
53:
52:
16:(Redirected from
1192:
1113:NewsAndEventsGuy
1054:
1049:
1044:
1020:NewsAndEventsGuy
1001:
996:
991:
950:
945:
940:
907:
902:
897:
848:NewsAndEventsGuy
826:NewsAndEventsGuy
819:
778:NewsAndEventsGuy
748:NewsAndEventsGuy
741:
724:
719:
714:
706:
690:
663:
517:
514:NewsAndEventsGuy
499:NewsAndEventsGuy
443:reverted my edit
440:
437:NewsAndEventsGuy
422:
406:
378:
370:
326:
319:
273:
272:
269:
266:
263:
242:
235:
234:
229:
221:
214:
184:
183:
180:
177:
174:
131:
126:
125:
115:
108:
107:
102:
94:
87:
70:
64:
63:
55:
34:
27:
21:
1200:
1199:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1191:
1190:
1189:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1052:
1047:
1042:
999:
994:
989:
948:
943:
938:
931:conference only
905:
900:
895:
813:
735:
722:
717:
712:
702:
674:
659:
649:
615:
578:
541:
511:
434:
432:
418:
407:
401:
383:
349:, any expected
270:
267:
264:
261:
260:
227:
181:
178:
175:
172:
171:
154:well-referenced
127:
120:
100:
68:
23:
22:
15:
12:
11:
5:
1198:
1196:
1188:
1187:
1182:
1177:
1172:
1167:
1157:
1156:
1152:
1151:
1141:
1140:
1139:
1138:
1137:
1136:
1135:
1134:
1133:
1132:
1131:
1130:
1129:
1128:
1127:
1126:
1125:
1124:
1123:
1075:
1074:
1073:
1072:
1071:
1070:
1069:
1068:
1067:
1066:
1065:
1064:
1063:
1062:
1061:
1060:
862:
841:
840:
839:
838:
837:
836:
806:
805:
788:
761:
760:
759:
758:
738:King of Hearts
697:
695:
671:
670:
656:requested move
650:
648:
645:
614:
608:
577:
571:
540:
534:
533:
532:
531:
530:
459:WP:ONESHORTHAT
431:
428:
425:
424:
412:
409:
408:
403:
399:
397:
394:
393:
385:
384:
379:
373:
364:
363:
336:climate change
327:
315:
314:
311:
310:
307:
306:
295:
294:
287:Low-importance
283:
277:
276:
274:
262:Climate change
257:the discussion
253:Climate change
243:
231:
230:
228:Low‑importance
225:Climate change
222:
210:
209:
206:
205:
198:Low-importance
194:
188:
187:
185:
161:
133:
132:
116:
104:
103:
101:Low‑importance
95:
83:
82:
76:
65:
51:
50:
43:the discussion
35:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1197:
1186:
1183:
1181:
1178:
1176:
1173:
1171:
1168:
1166:
1163:
1162:
1160:
1150:
1148:
1143:
1142:
1122:
1118:
1114:
1110:
1105:
1101:
1100:this proposal
1097:
1093:
1092:
1091:
1090:
1089:
1088:
1087:
1086:
1085:
1084:
1083:
1082:
1081:
1080:
1079:
1078:
1077:
1076:
1059:
1055:
1050:
1045:
1040:
1036:
1031:
1030:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1017:
1012:
1008:
1007:
1006:
1002:
997:
992:
987:
983:
979:
975:
971:
970:
969:
965:
961:
957:
956:
955:
951:
946:
941:
936:
932:
928:
927:
926:
922:
918:
914:
913:
912:
908:
903:
898:
893:
889:
884:
880:
879:
878:
874:
870:
866:
863:
861:
857:
853:
849:
846:
843:
842:
835:
831:
827:
823:
817:
812:
811:
810:
809:
808:
807:
804:
800:
796:
792:
789:
787:
783:
779:
775:
770:
766:
763:
762:
757:
753:
749:
745:
739:
734:
733:
732:
731:
730:
729:
725:
720:
715:
710:
705:
700:
694:
693:
689:
688:
684:
683:
679:
678:
669:
667:
662:
657:
652:
651:
646:
644:
643:
639:
635:
634:Shhhnotsoloud
631:
627:
619:
613:
609:
607:
606:
602:
598:
597:Shhhnotsoloud
594:
590:
582:
576:
572:
570:
569:
565:
561:
560:Shhhnotsoloud
557:
553:
545:
539:
535:
529:
525:
521:
520:Shhhnotsoloud
515:
510:
509:
508:
504:
500:
495:
494:
493:
492:
488:
484:
483:Shhhnotsoloud
480:
476:
472:
468:
464:
460:
456:
452:
448:
444:
438:
429:
421:
416:
411:
410:
396:
395:
392:
391:
387:
386:
382:
377:
372:
371:
368:
362:
360:
356:
352:
348:
343:
341:
337:
333:
328:
325:
321:
320:
305:
301:
296:
292:
288:
282:
279:
278:
275:
258:
254:
250:
249:
244:
241:
237:
236:
232:
226:
223:
220:
216:
203:
199:
193:
190:
189:
186:
169:
165:
159:
155:
151:
147:
143:
142:
137:
130:
124:
119:
117:
114:
110:
109:
105:
99:
96:
93:
89:
84:
80:
74:
66:
62:
57:
56:
48:
44:
40:
36:
33:
29:
28:
19:
1146:
1144:
1108:
1103:
1099:
1095:
930:
864:
844:
821:
790:
764:
743:
696:
686:
681:
676:
672:
660:
653:
623:
586:
549:
433:
414:
388:
380:
367:
344:
329:
286:
246:
197:
139:
79:WikiProjects
47:no consensus
46:
1014:of this at
666:move review
477:" wanting "
304:style guide
173:Environment
158:categorized
146:environment
98:Environment
1159:Categories
1109:conference
982:WP:CONCISE
978:WP:PRECISE
340:designated
353:, or any
415:150 days
381:Archives
302:and our
39:deletion
1096:opposed
1039:King of
986:King of
935:King of
892:King of
883:WP:NPOV
791:Support
709:King of
589:550 ppm
289:on the
200:on the
150:neutral
69:B-class
865:oppose
845:Oppose
626:550ppm
451:UNFCCC
75:scale.
1104:other
984:. --
852:Jlevi
822:scope
744:scope
479:UNFCC
162:Read
134:This
1117:talk
1024:talk
980:and
964:talk
921:talk
873:talk
856:talk
830:talk
799:talk
782:talk
752:talk
682:uidh
638:talk
601:talk
564:talk
524:talk
503:talk
487:talk
441:you
330:The
152:and
45:was
1098:to
281:Low
192:Low
1161::
1119:)
1056:♠
1026:)
1018:.
1003:♠
966:)
952:♠
923:)
909:♠
875:)
858:)
832:)
801:)
784:)
754:)
726:♠
701:→
658:.
640:)
603:)
566:)
526:)
505:)
489:)
1115:(
1053:♣
1048:♦
1043:♥
1022:(
1000:♣
995:♦
990:♥
962:(
949:♣
944:♦
939:♥
919:(
906:♣
901:♦
896:♥
871:(
854:(
828:(
818::
814:@
797:(
780:(
750:(
740::
736:@
723:♣
718:♦
713:♥
687:e
677:b
636:(
599:(
562:(
522:(
516::
512:@
501:(
485:(
439::
435:@
390:1
293:.
204:.
170:.
160:.
81::
49:.
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
