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quotation marks as a search operator to specify only results for the exact phrases “Bareunmirae Party,” “Bareun Mirae Party,” and “Bareun Future Party,” Bareunmirae is the most often used and Bareun Future the least common. You can also clearly see that
Bareunmirae has established itself as the dominant form over time as major sources (such as Yonhap, which is essentially Korea’s equivalent of Reuters or AP) adopted it as their preferred form after previously having had either another or no preferred form when the party first appeared on the scene. This is similar to how some major English-language sources used “Righteous Party” before “Bareun Party” became the preferred form.”
2020:- my opinion in the previous discussion was that there was not yet consensus among English-language sources about the less-than-one-month-old (at the time) party and so no opinion could be formed, but in the past two months this has evidently skewed toward predominant use of the proposed title (the organization's stated official name). In situations such as these, we would only prefer the translated English title if that title was quite significantly predominant in English sources over the official title. An example of that is
1930:'s position, but I don't believe his assertions are in evidence. If you go to the Korea Herald's website, a quick search shows that they have used all three names at various points in time; they have used "Bareun Mirae Party" six times since the beginning of March, "Bareun Future Party" seven times since the beginning of March, and "Bareunmirae Party" 19 times since the beginning of March. UPI and the Straits Times have not mentioned the party very many times, but UPI has used "Bareunmirae Party" most often and in
1855:“Bareunmirae Party” is favored over “Bareun Mirae Party” and “Bareun Future Party” by wire services including Agence France-Presse (AFP), United Press International (UPI), and Korea’s own Yonhap News Agency. It is also favored by the Korea Herald, Korea JoongAng Daily, KBS World, Korea Bizwire, The Diplomat, the South China Morning Post, the Japan Times, and the Straits Times. These are major English-language sources from within Korea, from its neighboring countries, and from countries outside the region.
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1404:, that "Knowledge does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title" (which has been made clear to you at least six times already). Thirdly, that "statement" you gave us, how are we to confirm its veracity? Anyone could have made it up in a desperate attempt to shore up their arguments. It's unsourced. Besides that, the "statement" still doesn't change the fact that we don't necessarily use the official name here on Knowledge.
1938:. I could go on, but I think it should be clear that Kiteinthewind's argument that "There appears to be a consensus, even within Korea, to use 'Bareun Future' when referring to the party in English" is not correct. My original reasoning for having the article title be "Bareunmirae Party" was that the article title should reflect the “version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language,” in accordance with
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times since the beginning of March. I would continue to argue that the existence of sparse usage of "Bareun Future Party" should not be used as a justification to displace the most common usage, "Bareunmirae Party," on
Knowledge — much in the same way that the less common, but still existing, use of "New Frontier Party" should not displace the more common "Saenuri Party" on Knowledge.
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370:, it has been established that "The title used in reliable English-language sources both inside and outside the political party's country (in scholarly works and in the news media), should be preferred." Therefore, under convention, the page's name should be Bareun Future Party. It is for that same reason why
1912:
also used "Bareun Future" within the past month alone. There appears to be a consensus, even within Korea, to use "Bareun Future" when referring to the party in
English. In addition, it has not been established, by any stretch of imagination, that "Bareunmirae" is the official name. It was only based
1721:
I'm going to impart you with something an editor here told me a long time ago (edited to fit this situation): You seem to think you can browbeat, accuse, and insult whoever you like. When you've apologized to everyone else you insulted, you might be in a better position to lambast others. Until then,
1977:
I believe this discussion is one worth having, even if the verdict is to again wait to change the name. If one looks to Yonhap, you can see that they have used "Bareun Mirae Party" once since the beginning of March, "Bareun Future Party" twice since the beginning of March, and "Bareunmirae Party" 42
1967:
The opening of yet another divisive move discussion, merely weeks after the last one, is counterproductive and definitely out-of-process. The last debate resulted in a "No Move" verdict, and we were told to wait before talking about it again. To circumvent that discussion with yet another discussion
1799:
See enough agreement in this discussion to go ahead and rename this article. Along with the opposer, I first thought this debate should be "procedurally closed" as out-of-process. However after reading the supporting nomination and the rationales of the supporters, I began to see the good in having
1862:
There is also a precedent for naming articles on South Korean political parties with their
Romanized names (as opposed to their translated ones) so long as they are the most commonly used forms. This has been true with the Saenuri Party, from which many of the Bareunmirae Party’s members defected,
1048:
English-language sources both inside and outside the political party's country (in scholarly works and in the news media), should be preferred. Parties whose names are always kept in one language in a multilingual country also are commonly referred to by their native title in
English, and so those
1453:
The official
English name of South Korea is not "Daehan Minguk". And until now, regretfully all articles for Korean political parties on English Wikipeida are following this rule. (in other words, "official English name" became "commons name".) For this, see Saenuri Party, Minjoo Party and Bareun
1619:
shows the user’s unwillingness to assume good faith, railroading the concensus, blatant nationalism, and -icing on the cake- threat to revert all his edits when he was first banned in 2013. The user’s recent conflicts with other users in
English Knowledge has shown that he has not changed a bit.
1501:
First, South Korea use the
Hangeul, not English alphabet. So, "Daehan Minguk" is not correct. Second, Saenuri, Minjoo and Bareun are official names, and it is became common names. I think you still cannot recognize "Hangeul" or "Korean". And I already suggested to you for it. And until now, Some
1866:
On top of that, if you look, you can see that major
English-language sources, such as the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, use both “Saenuri Party” and “New Frontier Party”—yet the presence of the alternative English translation does not in itself result in deferring or defaulting to the
1128:
the title ought to be the most
English name that's in common use by English-language sources, which is the current title. The problem with this discussion is lack of coverage of this new, minor party among sources outside of Asia, so there's just not that much conclusive evidence to go on. The
1603:
It does appear we are encountering the same problems here with Garam. I put the log page (link above) through Google Translate, and it appears Garam has been blocked three times (and for significant periods at a time) on kowiki since 2012 for "personal attacks", "non-collaborative attitudes",
1858:
In a previous discussion on moving the page, the number of Google News results for Bareun Future Party was cited, but if one looks deeper, you’ll notice that many of those results are actually false positives popping up for the Bareun Party, a predecessor to Bareunmirae. Moreover, if you use
1693:
Don't cross you? Everyone is held to the same rules on Knowledge. Your behavior on other Wiki projects is certainly impeachable, and we are going to talk about this, because you are carrying over your behaviors from another part of the Knowledge group of sites onto this edition of Knowledge.
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1662:: What is "blatant nationalism"? In other words, where is "nationalism" in here? It is only your opinion. And I think you can't recognize "Hangeul" or "Korean". So, please stop dogmatic opinion. And I think you have repeatedly and intentionally ignored my points above.
1356:, if we don't know official name of this party, we shouldn't think name of this political party is not simply this or not now. Because this is a newly founded political party in South Korea, and it may take some time until the English language name is settled.
1892:. The consensus was not to move in a debate that happened within the past two months. The admin who closed the debate said we need to wait for a much longer time before we approach the issue again. Also, KH does not favor the name Bareunmirae Party. In fact,
1946:
form of the party's name in major English-language sources. One last (minor) note, I also want to clarify and reiterate that in the first paragraph of my reasoning, I stated that the party's official name is not what's important under
1005:). This is proof that Bareun Future remains in use. Since the word "Mirae" makes no sense in English, I recommend we stick to the current system, where the other name is listed in the article, but is not the article title itself.
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1313:, and there's enough use of "Bareun Future" where the "translation rarely used" protocol comes nowhere near being applicable. No matter what, I will oppose the renaming, but I will let other genuine, non-canvassed users decide.
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Recently, as I said, the name spelling "Bareunmirae Party" (and "Bareun Mirae Party; two terms is same in Korean lanuage) is continue to increasing rather than "Bareun Future Party" in English news since February 22, 2018. See
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on Knowledge, and not Republic of Korea, Daehan Minguk, or anything other than "South Korea", thus, your argument is invalid. Also, official names don't necessarily matter. Also, asking for the party's name in English is an
1871:
does not call for only using English article titles but instead for whichever article title best reflects the “version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language.” This is “Bareunmirae Party.”
1124:- what I'm seeing is there doesn't seem to be any consistency among the various reliable English-language sources as to which name to use to refer to the party - even individual publications go back and forth. As such per
1014:
Well, you said to me for this party's name on Yophap last time. Now, Yonhap is using the name "Bareunmirae Party". And from what you say, not only "Mirae", but "Bareun" also don't have any meanings in English language.
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turned up only four hits. There is a consensus internationally, it appears, to use Bareun Future. Also, citing the official party website is, in and of itself, a Knowledge rules violation, as it is clearly stated, in
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898:: Since February 22, 2018, English news using the spelling "Bareunmirae Party" for the name this party, such as "Yonhap" ─ who is similar to "AP" in South Korea ─. Please check the date of recent news on Yonhap
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Knowledge does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable
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is the “title used in reliable English-language sources both inside and outside the political party's country.” Under that standard, “Bareunmirae Party” remains the proper form for use on Knowledge.
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is fruitless, in my opinion, especially when it has been proven (by Cjeongbis himself/herself, no less) that there is still no commonly accepted term for this party amongst certain publications.
416:
Interesting discussion below – perhaps in a year or so when the situation isn't so "recent", circumstances may change enough to approach this subject again. Time will tell (and time also heals).
1179:
Yes, I see that, but because there's no consensus it's my opinion that the English word "Future" is preferable to the transliterated Korean word "Mirae", since both are being used in sources.
632:
811:? I don't see any results for "bareunmirae", only the name with a space. For the other two, I'm finding use in the past 30 days in reliable sources, off the first page of my Google results:
1488:
violation, and Divided Use is irrelevant to this debate. Finally, I'm done talking to you, Garam. You have not AGFed at all in this discussion, and you have violated several tenets of
1604:"violation of discussion guidelines", "repeated debate issues", and "A violation of a collaborative relationship" (I assume that means an AGF violation?). These are serious issues.
1373:
3. First of all, today this political party said to me, as above. "Bareunmirae Party" has been named as official name of this political party. And I think this relates to number 1.
1917:) Also, it has clearly been stated that official names do not necessarily matter on Knowledge, which another user has conveniently decided to ignore, by all means necessary.
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For the final time (since your controversial past on kowiki is showing here now), Saenuri, Minjoo, and Bareun falls under the "translation rarely used" protocol under
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for it, and don't cross me in further irrelevant disscusion. Also, if you don't know Korean language, please don't read it using "Google Translate". It is an obvious
1076:. Therefore, what you said about Bareun is invalid, because it falls under the "translation rarely used" protocol. The "Future/Mirae" part, however, falls under the
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taking up of the less common usage “New Frontier Party” in place of the more common “Saenuri Party” on Knowledge, even if the former is in English. This is because
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And I would argue that the "evidence" given by Garam is the most recent of recent, when the "less recent of recent" information, in this case, carries more weight.
885:: The sources you cited above, for either of the names, represent some of the most reliable sources in South Korea and the world, so they are pretty good sources.
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I'm busy editing articles and improving them rather than accusing other editors of being biased liars, so if you'll excuse me I'm done with this issue and you.
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Okay, from this it looks more like Bareun Future Party is more commonly used, especially outside Korea. I'm not familiar with most of these sources, though.
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etc, because I believe that I can resolve several issues on Knowledge related to you smoothly. But now I think you don't think so. It is highly regrettable.
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1216:, and people with better knowledge or different opinions might come by. I don't see any harm in letting this run the full 7 days, it's already been 4.
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654:, not "Our Open Party". And it is also the same with article name in English Knowledge. And in South Korea, "새누리당" and "더불어민주당" also was called "
1942:, and I believe that Kiteinthewind's noting of the existence of other usages does not refute that reasoning, as "Bareunmirae Party" remains the
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English news is changing name of this political party on their news articles. But you have intentionally ignored it, and now you claim it is a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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etc. And "Bareunmirae" and "Bareun Mirae" have the same meaning in Korean language. Also, all results in Google News is infinitesimal.
691:. We are here to build an encyclopedia, not here to enforce some Asiatic language or nationalistic appeal. You need to remember that.
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the same meaning with "Bareun Mirae". Also, "Bareunmirae Party" is official English name of this party on their website. Thanks. --
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Blatant nationalism, which explains why he is railroading the change to Korean. We can't allow rules to be violated on Knowledge.
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
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on an claim by another user that I have since called into question (not the least because it was "established" by violating
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That log is outside English wikipedia. And I don't understand why many times I explain it in English Knowledge. Please read
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because their English translations are rarely used even in the English-language media, either inside or outside the country
1707:, and don't be unreasonable. And if you want to discuss it, please visit other page. HERE is talk page for the article. --
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501:: Request rename goes against established conventions for the naming of articles on Knowledge, and is a rules violation.
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on Google News turned up at least 400 hits from multiple domestic South Korean and foreign sources, including Yonhap.
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situation may change, but we have to go by what sources are available now, not what we think might happen later.
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1446:. And that answer is from Facebook. Also, I already said to you for official name of this political party. See
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Well, my point on this page isn't about "Asiatic" or "nationalistic". So, I don't know your opinion. Thanks. --
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It's really not, though. This party was created less than two months ago, all there is is recent information.
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1. Some english news is changing name of this political party on their news articles, as mentioned earlier.
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Firstly, you said some are changing their names, but not all are doing so, and that means we must follow
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1400:. Second, the official name of the party is not the issue here. It has clearly been stated, under
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for example, was another case in which official English name; "Our Open Party" was not picked up.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1363:→ It is has been officially named "BAREUNMIRAE party" in English. Sorry for late reply.
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704:: In here, where is the "Asiatic" or "nationalistic"? Please keep to the record. --
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1479:. And it doesn't matter what the official name of South Korea is. We still use
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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and the Straits Times has likewise used "Bareunmirae Party" most often and in
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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The Hankyoreh mentioned above, it changed "Bareun Future" into "Bareunmirae".
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you mentioned above, it says "Bareun Mirae", not "Bareun Future". Thanks. --
997:, two articles published February 28th continue to use Bareun Future Party (
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Also, Bareun Futurue seems to be widely used in recent articles as well.
1438:; If you think I am lying, you can ask this political party for it using
1099:: And original version of "title discussion before changing the name" is
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on article also changed "Bareun Future" into "Bareun Mirae". Thanks. --
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The party's English name, Bareun Future Party, has been established by
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1673:. Finally, please don't try to get off this topic. Thanks. --
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is still Czech Republic on Knowledge, not Czechia. Likewise,
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to the letter, and in the strictest manner humanly possible,
662:", not "New Frontier Party" and "Together Democratic Party".
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and the Bareun Party, which preceded the Bareunmirae Party.
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Pretty much the entirety of this comment was an off-topic
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the relevant convention on the naming of political parties
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Knowledge:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names
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on Knowledge is still Ivory Coast, not Cote d'Ivoire.
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relevant convention on the naming of political parties
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
2030:. That's not the case here, and really it never was.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
754:: Do you remember? All this matter began your edits (
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as per my opinion of previous discussion. Thanks. --
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228:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1788:. No further edits should be made to this section.
405:. No further edits should be made to this section.
2064:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1760:. No further edits should be made to this section.
262:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1361:BAREUNMIRAE party 로 영문명이 정해졌습니다. 늦게 연락드려서 죄송합니다.
1949:Knowledge:Naming conventions (political parties)
1850:Knowledge:Naming conventions (political parties)
1705:Knowledge:Staying cool when the editing gets hot
1416:on Knowledge is South Korea, not Daehan Minguk.
368:Knowledge:Naming conventions (political parties)
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332:RM, Bareun Future Party → Bareunmirae Party,
320:RM, Bareun Future Party → Bareunmirae Party,
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646:Sorry? "열린우리당"'s official English name is "
374:is not named Yeollin Uridang on Knowledge.
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1940:Knowledge:Naming conventions (use English)
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1774:The following is a closed discussion of a
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391:The following is a closed discussion of a
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1029:For probably the 5th time: here's the
2085:Low-importance Korea-related articles
1936:its most recent coverage of the party
1932:its most recent coverage of the party
1212:I don't know, I think it's not quite
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2100:Unknown-importance politics articles
1890:Strident Oppose and requesting close
1793:The result of the move request was:
633:2604:2000:CFC0:1A:34DA:E32:3F4E:62F7
410:The result of the move request was:
222:This article is within the scope of
90:This article is within the scope of
165:one or more inactive working groups
49:It is of interest to the following
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575:"Bareun Future Party" -wikipedia:
516:A search for "Bareun Future Party"
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1898:An English article by Dong-A Ilbo
1800:this discussion again even if it
718:You know what I'm talking about,
589:"Bareun Mirae Party" -wikipedia:
1510:, for what "OR" violation is. --
596:"Bareunmirae Party" -wikipedia:
520:A search for "Bareunmirae Party"
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384:Requested move 24 February 2018
140:This article has been rated as
1894:an article published April 2nd
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242:Knowledge:WikiProject Politics
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977:etc - Feb 28, 2018 Thanks. --
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676:12:40, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
641:08:31, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
617:07:23, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
545:06:49, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
506:06:43, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
494:11:10, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
379:17:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
245:Template:WikiProject Politics
236:and see a list of open tasks.
162:This article is supported by
1157:" before user Kiteinthewind
532:This issue has been debated
2027:Österreichische Volkspartei
1900:also used "Bareun Future".
1767:Requested move 3 April 2018
120:Knowledge:WikiProject Korea
2121:
2090:WikiProject Korea articles
1836:01:44, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
1309:It's still a violation of
1199:, I believe it is time we
1070:Bangladesh Jamaat-e-Islami
762:etc) without consensus. --
687:, is still a violation of
472:, since February 22, 2018.
264:project's importance scale
146:project's importance scale
123:Template:WikiProject Korea
2042:19:32, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
2011:18:27, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
1988:18:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
1973:18:20, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
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1926:I understand and respect
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1717:05:12, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
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1303:08:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
1281:08:11, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
1257:07:47, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
930:What you said above is a
683:: What you're proposing,
660:The Minjoo Party of Korea
582:10 results in Google News
536:, and I think we need to
444:19:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
261:
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2057:Please do not modify it.
1781:Please do not modify it.
1753:Please do not modify it.
398:Please do not modify it.
18:Talk:Bareun Future Party
2022:Austrian People's Party
1808:. Have a Great Day and
1571:and I have removed it.
1541:Personal attack removed
1506:violation. Please read
1344:My point is as follows:
2026:
1896:used "Bareun Future".
1667:special:diff/800369593
1653:special:diff/804513292
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760:special:diff/825928606
756:special:diff/826005231
158:
126:Korea-related articles
106:and contribute to the
39:This article is rated
818:Bareun Future Party:
157:
1818:closed by page mover
848:Bareun Mirae Party:
512:Supplemental Comment
426:closed by page mover
324:, 24 February 2018,
225:WikiProject Politics
1842:Bareun Future Party
1432:See number 4 below.
1367:— Bareunmirae Party
1163:Bareun Future Party
450:Bareun Future Party
298:Bareun Future Party
1944:most commonly used
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1322:Please read
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1103:. Thanks. --
1080:convention.
1073:
999:Korea Herald
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836:Korea Herald
832:Korea Herald
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779:You are now
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2062:move review
1786:move review
1758:move review
1481:South Korea
1414:South Korea
1406:Ivory Coast
1159:was changed
1054:Plaid Cymru
971:Yonhap News
934:violation.
858:Korea Times
854:Korea Times
403:move review
295:Move logs:
41:Start-class
2074:Categories
2032:Ivanvector
1804:a case of
1649:Spring3390
1622:Spring3390
1573:Ivanvector
1551:Spring3390
1459:Thanks. --
1454:Party etc.
1378:Thanks. --
1265:Ivanvector
1247:Thanks. --
1218:Ivanvector
1201:guillotine
1197:Ivanvector
1181:Ivanvector
1151:Ivanvector
1131:Ivanvector
1097:Ivanvector
995:User:Garam
945:Ivanvector
912:completely
896:Ivanvector
867:Ivanvector
807:- perhaps
789:User:Garam
720:User:Garam
685:User:Garam
666:Thanks. --
607:Thanks. --
577:63 results
534:ad nauseum
484:Thanks. --
413:not moved.
350:Party Name
339:discussion
327:discussion
108:discussion
1980:Cjeongbis
1953:Cjeongbis
1874:Cjeongbis
1492:as well.
1450:'s below.
1448:this link
1269:this link
1072:are used
932:WP:RECENT
828:Hankyoreh
648:Uri Party
629:Uri Party
598:4 results
591:6 results
566:Yonhap #2
562:Yonhap #1
460:Soruces:
372:Uri Party
322:not moved
1999:Support:
1444:Facebook
1214:so clear
1046:reliable
540:by now.
530:sources.
366:. Under
239:Politics
230:politics
189:Politics
2018:Support
1440:Twitter
1195:Then, @
838:again,
805:Comment
681:Comment
658:" and "
527:, that
144:on the
1910:Xinhua
1908:, and
1806:WP:IAR
1796:moved.
1671:WP:ABF
1535:Oppose
1436:WP:AGF
1291:link 1
1289:: The
1267:: And
1122:Oppose
1068:, and
1066:Kadima
844:Yonhap
824:Dong-A
820:Xinhua
785:WP:AGF
625:Oppose
499:Oppose
470:Yonhap
364:Yonhap
362:, and
47:scale.
2037:Edits
2003:Garam
1915:WP:OR
1709:Garam
1675:Garam
1614:Garam
1578:Edits
1512:Garam
1508:WP:OR
1504:WP:OR
1490:WP:TE
1486:WP:OR
1461:Garam
1380:Garam
1328:Garam
1295:Garam
1273:Garam
1249:Garam
1241:Note:
1223:Edits
1186:Edits
1167:Garam
1136:Edits
1105:Garam
1062:Likud
1017:Garam
979:Garam
950:Edits
916:Garam
872:Edits
860:again
764:Garam
733:Garam
706:Garam
668:Garam
609:Garam
525:WP:NC
486:Garam
334:moved
117:Korea
99:Korea
70:Korea
2007:talk
1984:talk
1957:talk
1878:talk
1713:talk
1679:talk
1626:talk
1555:talk
1516:talk
1465:talk
1384:talk
1354:said
1332:talk
1326:. --
1299:talk
1277:talk
1253:talk
1171:talk
1109:talk
1021:talk
1001:and
983:talk
973:and
920:talk
768:talk
758:and
737:talk
710:talk
672:talk
637:talk
613:talk
568:and
490:talk
478:etc.
2054:.
1902:UPI
1750:.
1442:or
850:UPI
840:UPI
538:GOI
476:TBS
456:–
258:???
136:Low
2076::
2040:)
2034:(/
2009:)
1986:)
1959:)
1951:.
1904:,
1880:)
1844:→
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1015:--
985:)
953:)
947:(/
922:)
908:#5
906:,
904:#4
902:,
900:#3
875:)
869:(/
856:,
852:,
842:,
834:,
830:,
826:,
822:,
791:.
770:)
739:)
722:.
712:)
674:)
664:#2
652:#1
650:"
639:)
615:)
564:,
514::
492:)
452:→
395:.
358:,
2005:(
1982:(
1955:(
1876:(
1820:)
1816:(
1813:!
1711:(
1677:(
1658:@
1647:@
1624:(
1553:(
1543:)
1539:(
1514:(
1463:(
1429:.
1382:(
1330:(
1297:(
1285:@
1275:(
1263:@
1251:(
1245:#
1169:(
1149:@
1107:(
1095:@
1019:(
993:@
981:(
918:(
894:@
881:@
766:(
750:@
735:(
708:(
700:@
670:(
635:(
611:(
556:@
554:)
550:(
488:(
428:)
424:(
420:!
266:.
168:.
148:.
114:.
53::
20:)
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