Talk:Bed Bath & Beyond (online retailer)/Archive 1

1863:. The press coverage is not at all surprising, because the company is controversial for a number of reasons, not the least of which being its troubles with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, its failure to make money for a number of quarters, and its CEO "bizarre" (to quote the Register) behavior. He, inter alia, has blamed his company's woes on a "Sith Lord," and he has retained a professional character assassin named Judd Bagley to run a website to scorch his enemies. His own father quit the board of directors in protest at Byrne's shenanigans, and there have been other departures. Since the reality of this is displeasing to Byrne, he has dispatched Bagley to engage in a campaign of harassment against Knowledge (XXG), of which you and others on this page are loyally playing a role. If you can come up with some rational analysis of the flaws in this article feel free to do so. No one else ever has, because this article is entirely fair and reflects the reality of Overstock.com's situation, much as Byrne and Bagley would like to suppress it. -- 3948:

related to financial performance, the Company’s recent restatement of its financial statements, the filing of its complaint against Gradient Analytics, Inc., the development and implementation of certain new technology systems and disclosures of progress and problems with those systems, communications with and regarding investment analysts, communications regarding shareholders who did not receive the Company’s proxy statement in April 2006, communications with certain shareholders, and communications regarding short selling, naked short selling, purchases and sales of Company stock, obtaining paper certificates, and stock loan or borrow of Company shares."

5022:

this, it is/was easy to assume that the area is/was in Salt Lake City, even though it is not, was not and never has been. Since the incorporation of Cottonwood Heights, the U.S. Postal Service has added “Cottonwood Heights” as an acceptable place name for addresses in the ZIP code 84121. So, if Overstock continues to use “Salt Lake City” in its address - which it apparently is doing - then yes, it *is* pretending to be in Salt Lake City. It’s in Cottonwood Heights - which, incidentally, is a name that was used to refer to the area even before it was incorporated as a city; thus, Overstock has always been in Cottonwood Heights. Period.

3379:

Lake City" to the ZIP code 84121, even though it lies ~10 km south of Salt Lake City and well outside the city limits. After the incorporation of Cottonwood Heights, the USPS also assigned the new city's name to 84121, but still allows the use of "Salt Lake City" in 84121 addresses. Thus, a sort of postal loophole was created, which allows Overstock.com and other businesses to masquerade as Salt Lake City businesses, when in fact they are not and never were located in the city. Apparently the name recognition offered by "Salt Lake City" trumps any sense of accuracy or respect for the community that Overstock.com is actually a part of.

4441:. If you wish to have the article say more about this topic, you'll have to find quotes that present all sides. For example, if you include statements from Gradient, or from Copper River you'll need to also include statements from Overstock rebutting them. Best to just leave it all out, go with a purely factual presentation in this area and let the reader draw their own conclusions. I strongly suggest against a repeat insertion of such material without gaining consensus here on the the talk page first. Which does not at this time exist. I further note that this article is on probation so fiddling about will not be looked at kindly. ++ 1766:

Now we know. In a few short minutes the edits were removed by someone and the article was "protected". The current Overstock article reads like trash. Really, folks. You should be embarrassed. You don't like the guys running the company? Who cares? Write a good article with an NPOV (there is an obvious negative bias when read by this outside observer). I have donated in the past but will not do so again until there is more transparency in the wiki process. I don't care about overstock or any of the other articles but am concerned when honest information is kept out of the light by those with an agenda (any agenda).

2867:(1) I am not "rules lawyering": I am pointing out that you do not seem to perceive that you are violating a fundamental Knowledge (XXG) policy; (2) I have no agenda in relation to the content of this article, and nothing I have written indicates that I do; (3) the fact you seem to think I have an agenda in relation to the article suggests you are seeing this article as a battleground; (4) you still do not seem to see anything wrong with writing what you have written; and (5) all this just continues to suggest that you should refrain from involvement with this article. 442:

question needs to be named. I fail to see how adding this content is required by NPOV, and how deleting it violates NPOV. It is not a view, it is information and I cannot see how this information comes close to meeting our standard for notability. Removing it from the article in no way compromises the articles's accuracy or neutrality. We ought to include notable criticisms of Overstock.Com, and notable defenses - good sources will be mainstream newspapers like the NYT, and newspapers and magazines that focus on business such as WSJ, Fortune, Forbes, etc.

248:

affidavits in a suit against his some of his sources at Rocker Partners and Gradient Analytics. Even if this were not the case, including his opinions, not based on any facts, is "spin", one-sided, and not approriate for Knowledge (XXG), regardles if his opinion can be linked via a source to CBS marketwatch. Perhaps we should start adding Forbes articles to balance out Herb Greenberg's personal bias against Overstock and Patrick Byrne, or decide to not include any "commentary" from journalists that isn't fact based. --- regards, my soon to be blocked IP.

3429:"SLC" or "CH". Businesses or households have a choice - they can either use CH, reflecting their actual location, or they can continue to use SLC out of habit. Overstock.com apparently chooses not to recognize the city that it is actually located in by changing the place name appearing in its SEC filing address, most likely because "Salt Lake City" offers better name recognition. Yes, this is a contradiction, but Overstock.com is enabled by the Postal Service's practice of maintaining "Salt Lake City" as the default place name for 84121 addresses. 274:

that everyone can look at the issues on the page while deciding the consensus for possible changes to be made. I'll add the appropriate tag to the article to note that this is being discussed on this talk page. In the meantime, as we discuss it here, please be sure to use the macro for adding your signature to the end of your comments on talk pages so that other readers can follow the flow of discussion better. Just type four tildes (~~~~) after your last thought and the information and timestamp will be inserted for you. Thanks.

316:, when a little note popped up that was imbedded in the page asked me if I wanted to talk with someone to get help. Click yes and it opens a small window where an Applet starts. Long story short, they seem to have some sort of program dedicated to talking with the site visitors and asking them what they're looking for. It's basically an intuitive advanced search (it couldn't be a person i was chatting with because it would talk in circles), probably for people who know very little about finding what they're looking for. 3417:

Pentagon is located across the river in Virginia. So anyone looking at, say, the mailing address of the Department of the Army, would logically assume that it is in Washington. After all, that's what the address says! However, it's simply not true. The Army's offices are in Arlington, Virginia. Yes, this is a contradiction. The Postal Service could change the place name assigned to the Pentagon's ZIP codes from "Washington" to "Arlington", but for whatever reason it does not, perpetuating this contradiction and confusion.

3784:

company. Possibly this could be added to Byrne's article if it seems important. However, I'm thinking if we focus on the relevance to the article subject, we may end up with good sections that are distinct enough to justify each other. I may try to trim some of the Bagley material as well, which I've only glanced at, but which does seem a bit too specific and like inside baseball. I think you're right it's being overemphasized compared to its coverage in the media in relation to Overstock.com.

2411:

is entirely possible that even if the first question is answered in the negative, the second question could be answered in the positive. For example, recently Jim Watson made some inflammatory comments about Africans, comments which he quickly apologized for and retreated from. Those comments would not be useful as a "source" for scientific thought about Africans, but nevertheless are probably notable enough to be mentioned and discussed in the article about him.

4371:

the Salt Lake Tribune is a good or bad publication. What matters is that the New York Times analysed this lawsuit settlement and found it to be a big nothing. Removing it skews the article and does a disservice to your readers. Nocera was executive editor of Fortune and was a Pulitzer finalist. If he doesn't meet your criteria for inclusion then there is something wrong with your criteria. I personally doubt that it doesn't meet your criteria.--

31: 966:

shares that is explained at Knowledge (XXG).com). Mr. Byrne denied knowing who ran the site, though he publicly supported it (investorvillage.com)... The New York Post reported last week that the anonymous operator of AntiSocialMedia was Judd Bagley, Overstock's director for social media...Mr. Bagley owned up to running the site...and Mr. Byrne set about defending him. "Judd is a reporter," he wrote. "The First Amendment applies to us, too

5071:

event). The reason for confusions such as this is the simple fact that the USPS does not conform the boundaries of ZIP codes to municipal boundaries. To add insult to this injury, the USPS then designates only one “default” place name per ZIP code, which ends up being assumed as the city in which every address in that ZIP code is located, even if the ZIP code is actually miles and miles away from the city whose name it has been assigned.

926:; I found a number of other sources which are less complete but which plainly show that Bagley set up an attack site intended to discredit Gary Weiss as being an editor here. So here's the problem: the very fact that ASM.net was created as an attack site (by any standard out there) is notable. Even if we don't name the site in the article, we're going to leave a trail to it. It'll just take a little typing on top of the click of a link. 3564:

proposition that the company has never made money. (The apparent support for this claim is divined from the snark "Could this be because the company has never come close to making money? ... Nah. Must be those rotten naked short sellers.") This dubious "fact" is not mentioned in ordinary news coverage, suggesting that it is not weighty, even if it were true. We should strive to follow the most reliable sources, not critical columnists.

3701:

vandalism, they might have to spend a few extra dollars a month and invest a few hours of time in forwarding internal IP address headers to Knowledge (XXG)- but that doesn't mean we should choose an imprecise sentence construction that excuses them. The parts of the Knowledge (XXG) statement quoted state that he was using open proxy, even if the article writers didn't actually make any effort to look at Bagley's offensive tactics.

3479:(I'm going to put on the line right now that the thing that scares me so much about this article- indeed, about the little I've heard about this company altogether- is the rampant puppetism and acting, so you can view my contribs for proof that I am in fact a person who has actually existed for several years and has no hidden agenda. Seriously, I'm just a guy who wants some quiet on the bus. -- 5443: 5404: 3965:

disclosures of progress and problems with those systems, communications with and regarding investment analysts... shareholders who did not receive the Company’s proxy statement in April 2006... and communications regarding short selling, naked short selling, purchases and sales of Company stock, obtaining paper certificates, and stock loan or borrow of Company shares."<ref: -->

2143:

Knowledge (XXG)/Overstock controversy, the section on ASM in the Overstock article seems out of place. Knowing about the controversy, it seems more like a defensive measure on the part of some Knowledge (XXG) members than a useful addition to the article. Personally, when I saw the ASM section here it seemed to me to lend more credence to some of Bagley's claims.

2729:

are not here to condemn Overstock, nor to praise them. The right attitude for a Wikipedian is to leave the emotion at the door, or perhaps to disengage from editing on a topic which causes excessive emotion. We do not hate Overstock. We do not love Overstock. We are indifferent to all but the simple basic facts, delivered in a dispassionate neutral manner.--

1731:

profile edit wars. Perhaps I was wrong to have so much faith in an Encyclopedia anyone can edit, especially when the administrators start manipulating the definition of anyone, and claiming that they are more equal than others. From the mailing list debacle to the allegations in the Register, this cabal is starting to remind me of the evils of Russian communism.

1044:

the link naming arose. Evidently it was no issue before. As a matter of fact, a review of this talk page is almost amusing. There was zero controversy over pretty much anything until this recent jousting over this one paragraph! Look back over the past two years discussion and about 50% of it concerns this one paragraph and was added over the past 24 hours.--

3215:"only pertain to the encyclopedic suitability of topics for articles but do not directly limit the content of articles." As it is, we have sources that talk about Bagley and Byrne's various dramas in the context of Overstock, which they are apparently designed to promote. That's what's relevant, that's what's necessary, that's what makes a good article. 5001:

in SLC--it's that their postal address was renamed. Overstock's heyday was entirely served from two offices in Salt Lake, and then the locations themselves changed names. I changed the wording to refelect that. (I didn't mention that their second address is also in SLC, not West Valley.) Check Google Maps on both points...--

3618:... blocked about 800 homes subscribed to Bagley's ISP." makes it sound like he was editing through a number of dynamically assigned IP's from his home ISP- rather than a variety of proxies and the one IP address his ISP uses to service hundreds of customers- which is naturally also going to look like a proxy. 661:

important for this to be a good article. No one who has responded to my initial comment, I see, has even attempted to back up the claim that NPOV requires it. Good, we have gotten that bit of disingenuous argument out of the way. Now, explain why it is so important to name the name and provide the link.

5074:

Since the USPS shows no sign of changing its policies and methodologies, the confusion will continue. Fortunately, with Google maps (maps.google.com) city boundaries can now be easily called up (in the past, one would have to consult and compare inconsistent and often outdated sources) and the actual

5021:

from the time of the county’s founding in 1850 until 2005 (not 2004), when the City of Cottonwood Heights was incorporated. For purposes of mailing addresses, the U.S. Postal Service assigned the ZIP code encompassing the area (84121) the place name “Salt Lake City” - a postal designation. Because of

4828:

CNET article, Overstock is changing their local name and website name back to Overstock, but keeping O.co for international and mobile things. and they will still be working to move to O.co fully, but slower than they have been going. So, because they are still internationally calling themselves O.co

3563:

This absurd lead is emblematic for the bias of this article. Don't get me wrong. This is not an analysts' pick, and few think the company is managed well, but such an unsympathetic subject should still be covered in a neutral fashion. There's no need for us to cite a highly opinionated column for the

3428:

Some time after the City of Cottonwood Heights was incorporated, the Postal Service added "Cottonwood Heights" as an accepted place name for addresses in ZIP code 84121 (though "Salt Lake City" is still the "default"). So now it is postally acceptable to write an address in ZIP code 84121 with either

2973:

What you have in this article is a reflection of the reliable sourcing. This is a source of frustration to the company and its flacks but the problem lies with the company as reflected in the sourcing and not with the article. Just yesterday the stock went down something like 21% and the media went

1920:

A number of people state (below) that TheRegister is "biased" against Knowledge (XXG). So what? Much of the information they present has turned out to be reliable and accurate, and if Knowledge (XXG) acted professionally enough to take it in its stride, little damage would be done. It is the sight

1765:

I tried adding a quick note about the controversy to the article a few minutes back. I am an anonymous user with no axe to grind against any side of this issue - we just read the register articles on Slashdot and wanted to test what would happen if light was brought to a controversy within wikipedia.

1223:

I think addition of substantial amounts of data on Bagley would tend to skew this article dramatically. One short paragraph is really all that you need, and one short paragraph is what you have here currently. To go on about the Bagley smear campaign at any length may be titillating but it strikes me

1142:

runs an anonymous blog that attacks people that the company perceives as enemies, that is news. It might even be an SEC violation. (Some other exec who made anon posts to Yahoo groups about his company may go to jail; when executives of public corporations make public statements about their company

910:

What we've got here is something else I predicted when BADSITES was first being argued: that eventually Knowledge (XXG) disputes would hit the news, and then we would find it hard to exclude references to sites without affecting content. I don't think we need to have articles on Bagley or ASM.net, as

614:

I'd suggest that a reference to ASM in the article neither adds nor detracts from the article. We're talking about a three-sentence paragraph. Since NPA prohibits linking or references to off-wiki attacks against editors, I'd say that tips the scales in favor of not including. I previously would have

441:

The dispute hinges on whether Chris Bagley merits having an article in Knowledge (XXG) (the article is up for deletion; th eonly reason for the article to exist is because of the link here - so the existence of the article depends on the merits of mentioning his name here), and whether the website in

273:

I can understand your consternation and will definitely be examining the relevance of Greenberg's comments for inclusion in the article, but for not I left them in because I haven't had the time to give everything a full review and it's best if the page remain fairly static to avoid "edit warring" so

197:

We would like to update the information on this page - could someone please give us guidelines as to what we are allowed to do? We basically layed the page out as amazon did, but it seems that when we do it it's 'spam'. Do you think that instead of reverting the page back to it's original version -

121:

I am changing this back to the page we created a few weeks ago. Our intentions were to give factual and descriptive information abdout the company - and what is currently stated is a very vague overview. Half of the content refers to the company lawsuit and Patrick's personal battle with Naked Short

4967:

I know from my time with the company way back that Robert Brazell never worked a day for Overstock.com itself. He ran a company that went bankrupt and which was acquired and turned into Overstock.com. It wasn't even the same kind of business. It's odd to see Brazell mentioned in the opening sentence

4550:

I had just edited the revenue figures on October 7, 2008 to include the 2007 numbers. I used Yahoo finance as the reference. Since Yahoo Finance has adjusted their reported revenue numbers for Overstock from $ 760 million to $ 867 million, I would think we would least edit the numbers to match the

4370:

Which sources feel it is a win for Overstock? The only analysis I see is from a distinguished columnist for the New York Times Nocera, whose deft analysis of the lawsuit has been removed from this article on a shoddy pretext. I have no idea what the "Sith Lord" has to do with any of this, or whether

3677:

insists that we use reliable sources, and Knowledge (XXG)'s own self-published records are not. I'm not sure what imprecision you're getting at. I would just like it clear that Knowledge (XXG) blocked hundreds of homes as a reaction to this trolling—that was the headline, after all. The more passive

3362:

says Overstock headquarters is based in Cottonwood Heights. C.H. appears to be a relatively short distance from S.L.C., about 100 km or less. Overstock may well employ consultants in S.L.C. for various services, and especially with C.H. having been incorporated relatively recently, it's not unlikely

2950:

I think we should cite this article. However, we can not be judgmental about Overstock, we should provide as much neutral information as possible about the company in question, not call them lunatics or losers. Thats for the investors and customers to do. The problem with the current article is that

2421:

But then there is the separate question: where it not for our inherent tendency to naval gaze (because the article is in part about Knowledge (XXG)) would we consider the article relevant for this article? I think the answer is clearly no. The Register is a tabloid blog with a tiny audience and of

1635:

is a quite highly regarded tech tabloid, and by common wikipedia democracy is currently regarded as a reliable source. Are you disputing that? Also, yes, this issue is sensitive, but it is explosive enough to require a notation on this article, even if it is just a very small quick dispute note and

1180:

Umm I just read this page fresh and it occurs to me that the section "Anti naked short-selling campaign" doesn't actually describe the "Anti naked short-selling campaign" but more just the criticism of it. I know it's currently contentious but it appears that you don't actually give a link to any of

1043:

Actually this was SlRubenstein's revert,and it was to a version of the paragraph that has peaceably existed in this article for some months. There was no edit warring over the ASM name until you and Phil Sandifer pushed the point. Neither of you showed any interest in this article until the issue of

965:

Entries on message boards devoted to discussing Overstock.com asserted that Mr. Byrne was behind an anonymously written Web site, AntiSocialMedia.net, that focused on bashing critics of Overstock and of Mr. Byrne's crusade against so-called naked short selling (a complicated form of trading borrowed

769:

236:

which makes it harder for others to trust that you're interested in fair discussion of the article. I'll add this article to my list of things that I'd like to do and I will see what information can be brought in while maintaining the importance of other facts that other contributors clearly see as

5070:

to do with this. Each ZIP code has more or less the same capacity for handling mail. If the post office associated with a particular ZIP code cannot handle the volume of mail, the USPS will create a new ZIP code (though with the overall decline of mail volumes, this is becoming an increasingly rare

5040:

This is not unusual. My address is the nearby city, per the post office designation, even though I'm several miles from the border. It's because the small town where I live cannot handle the volume of mail, so the city takes the load. Similarly my workplace says "Charlotte" even though it's in a

5000:

There was a reference at the bottom that said Overstock lists themselves as Salt Lake City "even though they're in Cottonwood Heights, several miles south of Salt Lake." Actually Cottonwood Heights was incorporated, out of Salt Lake, in 2004. So it's not that Overstock moved or is pretending it's

4313:

The information is sourced to Reuters. That it happens to be also sourced to the SLT is just to establish that it's widely reported. I think your quote introduced undue weight, what I added was factual, without commentary (which was quoted and which I could have included...) I'll be reverting it on

3783:

Thanks for the explanations, Ant. I'm trying to trim down the NSS section here, per my comment on the other page, so it focuses on the material most relevant to Overstock. One part I was able to remove related to legislation that was passed in Utah, which I don't think is directly relevant to the

3475:

Has there seriously been no Reliable Source investigation of Overstock's marketing tactics? The other day I got on a bus and these other guys started loudly discussing the endless advantages to Overstock dot com (fighting urge to retype that in representative caps). Now, it seems to me like this is

3422:

Now, in the case of Overstock.com, the address appearing in its SEC filing (6350 South 3000 East) is not, nor has never been, in Salt Lake City. It is however, in, and has been in, the ZIP code 84121. And since the Postal Service has assigned the place name "Salt Lake City" to 84121, businesses and

3416:

There is often a difference between the place name given in a mailing address and the place in which the address is actually located. The most prominent example is the Pentagon. The Postal Service has assigned the place name "Washington, DC" to the ZIP codes that cover the Pentagon, even though the

2410:

I suppose there are really two separate issues here, right? First is the question of whether or not the Register should be regarded as a reliable source in this matter. Second is the separate question of whether or not their claims are notable or important enough to be noticed in the article. It

1516:

Based on that standard, references to opinion columns by Antilla, Nocera (2), Norris, should be removed and replaced. Similarly, Greenberg and Jayson are columnists, not reporters and should be replaced. Finally, bsalert.com fails as a reliable source. If you want help finding replacement sources,

1396:

I'd disagree, I don't think the two should be merged as they are separate entities, sure enough they help one another but it's not like you'd merge the George Bush page with the Republican Party page because they're "roughly the same thing". I actually searched on Judd Bagley and got re-routed here

1241:

Yuh. Mr Bagley's hard work has received attention from the proper media, and this should be noted, but I'm sure it can be kept in proportion. Anyone really interested can go through the references as further reading. There's a blogger claiming they've found a link, but I certainly wouldn't put that

1152:

Your points are well taken. The article already describes the smear campaign, and observes that the SEC and Patrick Byrne are under SEC investigation. The question is how much more detail you want to put in the article. I think SlRubenstein seems to feel that it should not be given excess weight. I

478:

govern article space. If it has been reported in reliable sources that antisocialmedia.net has taken certain actions and may be connected with the company, that may be described in the article, and to call it an "anonymous web site" is partly misleading and partly censorship of acceptable reliable

5509:

Reference, index 16 (referring to Salt Lake Tribune on Byrne) at time of this comment, is a broken link. But the "Archive" refers to an Archive.org archiving of that link. Unfortunately the archived content must have been loading material not available directly, and so the archive itself is broken

4410:

I have no problem noting if Overstock conceded something or Gradient held on to something, but this should presumably be something that has been noted prominently, that we can then add and source. If Nocera said that they did not admit to the underlying claims, I would think that could be added.

3540:

Agreed, I don't think it's particularly important except as a good (and well-covered) example of that particular Overstock director's campaign against imperial storm troopers. I've edited it down to a one-sentence summary which I think covers it properly without detracting from the article's flow.

3397:

The company's filings give its location as Salt Lake City. I have no problem with giving its location as Cottonwood Heights since it was mentioned in the Deseret News article, but that is a strange contradiction with the company's own SEC filings and I don't entirely understand the postal dynamics

3378:

Cottonwood Heights lies about 10 km south of Salt Lake City. The "confusion" results directly from U.S. Postal Service practices, which often pay little heed to city boundaries. In this case, Overstock.com's address lies in the ZIP code 84121. Many years ago, the USPS assigned the place name "Salt

3275:

Block was lifted so I added, with additional cite. On the Traverse Mountain thing, I think we have to add that Overstock itself was blocked. For that, I think a citation from the block log would be sufficient sourcing, albeit from a first-hand and not a secondary source. I added a sentence to that

2728:

Phil, nonetheless, those comments were inappropriate for Knowledge (XXG), even on a talk page. It strikes me as unlikely to be helpful in terms of creating a calm and loving environment for good editors seeking to create a high quality and neutral article, to engage in that kind of rhetoric. We

2142:

A major portion of ASM may be on people who have been critical of Overstock, however the content on the ASM site focuses specifically on the behavior of those people as significant members of Knowledge (XXG), in the context of Knowledge (XXG)'s environment and operation. Without knowing about the

1878:

I see Jimmy Wales today complaining that students aren't allowed to use this place as a citable source. Is there any wonder wikipedia isn't trusted given these recent shenanigans? Why is this page protected? Why is it nothing more than an attack page? When will this page, and related pages, be

1103:

Um, the revelation that Bagley is behind ASM.net is at least five months old-- hardly "current events". Whatever the rationale for naming or not naming the site, what pre-Sandifer version says is just inaccurate. What the sources really say, especially when you look beyond these two cites, is that

1021:

reason for doing this, and as the arbitrators have made perfectly clear, the NPA policy does not apply. (7 votes to accept a case, followed by two people changing their vote and working on a clarification, may not be a definitive statement of policy--which ArbCom can't make anyway--but it sure as

290:

I know that for neutrality Knowledge (XXG) is trying to not over-emphasize the fight over short selling but should't there be a reference to the lawsuit filed February 2, 2007? The suit is for three and a half billion dollars and is against some very big names (Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Bear

4504:

Not sure if this is just a blip or if it warrants inclusion in the article, but it seems to have been covered several places. Last week Overstock restated its earnings from 2003 through the second quarter of 2008; SVP of Finance David Chidester cited problems with the implementation of their ERP

3434:

Bottom line - the city appearing in an SEC filing (or in any other U.S. address) reflects the Postal Service's ZIP code boundaries and the place names it assigns to those ZIP codes. Unfortunately, ZIP code boundaries and ZIP code place names do not necessarily match actual political boundaries or

3163:

I'm afraid I have to agree with Guy on this. While I personally find Bagley's extracurricular activities interesting, they are only tangentially related to the company. The section on ASM already is long and threatens to overwhelm the article. This bit about Bagley being a jerk on Knowledge (XXG)

3034:

and is structured rather poorly IMO. I would give it a "start" class rating if it were part of my wikiproject. I understand that this is a rather contentious topic, so I don't plan on trying to edit it (plus I am not all that interested in its subject matter). However, this certainly doesn't mean

2755:

While I will cop to a measure of dramatic emphasis in those comments, I do not think them inappropriate - it is important to note that Overstock is a money-losing company with a staggering record of despicable actions on the part of its management. These are basic and well-cited facts of the sort

2591:

Well, the problem is that Overstock is an unprofitable business run by a lunatic who rants about sith lords, with a sociopathic executive who infects his critics with spyware. All of which is well-documented. The alternate position suggested - that Overstock is full of flowers and puppy dogs - is

1831:

It's fine to have a group of uber-admins that ride over the herd. Essential, I would argue. But the protections and control sggested by the Register and quickly confirmed by my own research suggests foul work at play. You folks need to face the ugly and bring it into the open. Admit mistakes were

3947:

Incidentally, if you look at the current sentence in the article that describes the scope of the investigation, it takes the "a broad range of documents, including, among other documents, all documents relating to the Company’s accounting policies, the Company’s targets, projections or estimates

3423:

households in that ZIP code are legitimized in formulating their addresses as "Salt Lake City, UT 84121" (even though they aren't actually located in that city). And so, wherever the address appears, an assumption is automatically made that the address is in Salt Lake City (but again, it is not).

3271:

On January 2, 2008, Overstock announced that cofounder Jason Lindsey had resigned as President, COO, and as a Director of Overstock effective from December 31, 2007. Byrne said Lindsey had "played a decisive role getting back on track" after "I screwed it up a couple years ago". Overstock stock

1835:

For example, who is at IP 209.200.52.180 making tons of edits on the very same articles the Register is talking about? The IP traces back to somewhere in NYC (just checked myself a minute ago). Can anyone say for sure this is not this Weiss guy? Or someone close to him? Where is that ban hammer?

93:

I'm changing this back to what we had posted a few weeks ago. Our intentions were to give factual and descriptive information about the company, and what is currently stated is a very vague overview - with half of the content referring to the company's lawsuit and Patrick's personal battle with

5343:

This article flagrantly violates WP:UNDUE, and as such is non NPOV. It appears that around half of it deals exclusively with lawsuits, the former CEOs campaign against naket short selling, etc. and ultimately it says very little about the company's business model or anything else to do with the

4478:

That is incorrect, I acted hastily, and I apologise. In fact he took my advice and the material inserted the second time is not the same as the first, and it is indeed balanced. Thanks, and apologies for the confusion. I was fooled by the lack of the edit summary. I reverted myself back, so the

3964:

The SEC sought information on "accounting policies... targets, projections or estimates related to financial performance... recent restatement of its financial statements... its complaint against Gradient Analytics, Inc., the development and implementation of certain new technology systems and

3700:

It makes it very clear. Knowledge (XXG) didn't block hundreds of homes, it blocked the single IP address an ISP used to service hundreds of homes. Maybe it isn't entirely the ISP's fault, IP address space does cost a lot of money nowadays and to avoid purchasing it, without also aiding Bagley's

3521:

concerns regarding the paragraph you reverted. Aren't we going into just a bit too much detail on that? My first inclination was to go with the paragraph, but I was persuaded by Jzg's view that this was inside baseball. Guy has had a personal issue so I don't believe he'll be contributing for a

3104:

Speaking as the Wikipedian interviewed there (and the one who placed and later removed the IP range block the article was about), I felt reasonably well-represented there. I notice in the comments that O-Smear felt the story was severely lacking. And I would guess from the comments with pics of

1730:

Seems to be some serious bias to the selected sources in this article. Opinion writers and columnists are considered reliable, especially when they are bad mouthing the subject, but the Register article is considered unreliable? C'mon. WP is starting to lose a lot of credibility with these high

4862:

The incident, according to Overstock, stemmed in part from its practice of encouraging websites of colleges and universities to post links to Overstock pages so that students and faculty could receive discounts on the shopping site. Overstock said it discontinued the program on Feb. 10, before

4711:

The section on short selling does not correspond with what I have seen Byrne say in contemporary televiosn interview clips. The impression I received was that the Overstock and associated case were based on claims of abusive shorting to manipulate the market coupled with media smears based on

4042:

Byrne produced a letter, written Wednesday by Kenneth Israel Jr., director of the SEC's regional office in Salt Lake City, saying the federal agency's probe "has been completed as to Overstock.com, against whom we do not intend to recommend any enforcement action." A second letter said that no

702:

They are newspapers, and most people throw them out after a day. This is an encyclopedia. We are not a newspaper and while we post current events, our mission is not the same as a newspaper's. I brought newspapers up only as one way to illustrate notability and again, one or two mentions in

660:

Thatcher, members of the ArbCom have authority only in arbitration cases. Individually, they are no more an authority than you or I and if they are not active in this discussion on this page their opinions are not relevant. Convince me that the added content of naming Bagley and his site are

297:

I added on the SEC dropping the Gradient investigation, which is all over the news this morning. There were a few sentences on Reg SHO that seemed out of place so I substituted with a briefer reference more suitable to an encyclopedia. There was a "POV" box at the top of the section apparently

247:

Ju6613r: You are correct - only "neutral points of view" should be included in this article. Which eliminates Herb Greenberg's CBS Marketwatch commentary - which is his opinion, not verifiable facts, as a legitimate source to use for quotes on Overstock and Patrick Byrne. Greenberg is named in

4081:

An SEC investigation of Gradient Analytics was initiated but then dropped in February 2007. An SEC investigation of Overstock.com and Byrne is ongoing, seeking information as to the company's accounting policies, targets, projections, and estimates relating to its financial performance. The

2499:

Um, how about no? You may notice that the article is protected until disputes are resolved and it says so at the top. That means that the article will stay protected in an imperfect state until we get a consensus here. Indeed, the template says "Protection is not an endorsement of the current

1457:

In July 2006, John J. Byrne, Patrick Byrne's father, resigned from the board of directors, reportedly due to his "new role at White Mountains Insurance Group," though that departure came soon after a public airing of the elder Mr. Byrne's unhappiness with his son's crusade against naked short

4341:

have probably published more words about the "Sith Lord" than any two papers in the world. I think it's insulting to call them a biased source; I did a quick search to be sure, and found an appropriately skeptical 2100 word article by Bob Mims May 6, 2006 that concludes with this line: "Adds

1793:

Ditto, I've donated in the past, but because of this issue and the overzealousness of WP admins I have decided to stop donating. Isn't WP about transparency? I guess not. I'm sure there are many people with similar viewpoints as mine and the above poster who feel that WP is showing signs of

1613:

Given that The Register is, by our description, a "tech tabloid" I have trouble with the idea that they are a reliable source. Widely used and read, clearly, but I really don't think they're reliable, and I think that this matter is, in general, sensitive enough that we need to be absolutely

1224:

as sheer undue weight. Overstock.com is the subject of two SEC investigations, one directed at Overstock and the other at Patrick Byrne himself. These investigations are far more important than the smear campaign being conducted by Bagley, and they receive just one paragraph for each probe.--

78:

improved the article, the vast majority of it read as an advertising spam for Overstock.com. At the same time, sections of the current article detailing inappropriate corporate behavior by the company were blanked. If anyone would like to sort through the new information and re-add it, I'd

2330:

The Register isn't exactly the most reliable of sources, and we should make that clear but I don't see a good reason why not to mention their claims. MPOV isthat they're a bunch of muckraking idiots who don't bother to do real reporting but we should probably still mention their claim here.

2897:

The point about ""Overstock.com says its main rivals are eBay, Amazon.com Marketplace and Yahoo! Auctions; however, Overstock's revenues, site traffic and marketshare currently lag far behind eBay and Amazon." may have some merit. In particular, the comparisons of revenue, site traffic and

720:

You don't think it is important to note that a person implicated in a supposedly anonymous web site that campaigns against naked short selling is actually a company employee? I would say that concealing that fact without having a good reason to do so is definitely a failure a write a good

4712:

mendacious analysis by a widely used analysis firm. Byrne specifically stated that naked shorting was not being claimed in these cases, but that he believed it was a systemic market problem which posed stability risks to the American economy. Can anyone find reliable cites either way?

4077:

XHarryX heeded my appeal and added that the investigation was dropped. However, the changed language is incorrect (not dropped in Feb 07). I went back and got the old language from a previous version, and added a sentence, and as suggested by XHarryX am posting it here. It should read:

5016:

Cottonwood Heights was not incorporated “out of” Salt Lake City (that implies that the area “seceded” from Salt Lake City, or that Salt Lake City de-annexed the area, upon which it was then available to be incorporated into another city). No, the area was an unincorporated portion of

4807: 4403:

Gradient also said it regrets describing Overstock's accounting policies as being outside of generally accepted accounting procedures, or GAAP, which is traditionally a red flag for securities analysts. ... In turn, Overstock said it will now press ahead on its case against Copper

3003:

Reliable yet selecting sourcing. Why should an article about a company be dominated by activities of its officers?. For example, if article about Google is all about Sergei and Larry's expensive weddings that contributed heavily to global warming, that wouldn't be considered fair.

3871:

It just reads funny to me -- major rivals may be right, as in 'a hundred times more major'. It should probably be changed to something sourced to Overstock as to who they consider their rivals to be, or possibly updated to something from after the whole debacle of recent years.

2240:

The vast majority of sources that talk about ASM seem to be people with an axe to grind, rather than anything resembling objective journalism. I'm not trying to defend ASM -- it just seems like the section on it in the Overstock article doesn't belong and reflects badly on WP.

3567:

In this case, the statement was false. Reliable sources say that Overstock was last profitable 4Q 2002. It was apparently slightly profitable for two quarters. Yeah, they're not exactly rolling in dough, but that doesn't excuse us for relaying a columnist's quip as flat fact.

1138:; you would be satisified with "a senior administration official" or some other obfuscation. If Mr. Bagley ran a blog on fantasy football or politics it would not only be tangential, it would be completely irrelevant no matter how big of an jerk he is. But when the company's 3039:

article and it seems to be fairly well put together, so perhaps this article could steal its structure and style (though if anyone knows of an FA article that has a similar topic as this article that would be the way to go). Also, the infobox could do with some spiffing (see

5379:

As of July 2017, the article's final paragraph refers to an amended lawsuit filed in December 2010. The lack of an update on outcomes in the ensuing 6 1/2 years suggests the article may have been orphaned or otherwise disowned, meriting a flag of some sort to this effect.

3773:

Bagley's involvement in Knowledge (XXG) has been restored. Is this particularly significant? I wonder if we're too close to this to say for sure, but my impression is that but for the fuss over blocking a single IP number this hasn't raised a blip on the public radar.

3476:

the sort of thing a news outlet would have picked up on and looked into- have there really been no articles on this that were removed for some NPOV issue (raised by OverstockWiki, natch)? If there are, could somebody point me to the revision before they were removed?

2951:

its more about couple of Overstock officers than about the company itself. Honestly, we might be doing a disservice to the employees of Overstock by concentrating only on Byrne and Bagley. How about we make this more about the company itself, for ex: like Google page

2576:

don't sound very objective. (What does the fact that their revenues and market share are smaller have to do with who their competitors are? And why make an unsourced statement about who someone at Overstock believes their competitors to be?) It's just gratuitous.

5153:. Given ample mainstream media coverage as shown previously, both claims are factually incorrect. So I'll now go ahead and restore the section. If the anonymous reverter still wants it removed, the onus is now on them to come up with a properly argued motivation. – 3192:

Correct. Bagley is not notable enough to warrant an article of his own, as was determined in an AFD, and that is precisely the point. Everything he does does not warrant mention in this encyclopedia. Knowledge (XXG) is not an indiscriminate collection of facts. See

395:

subjects. Knowledge (XXG) does not support the discrediting of companies on its talk pages by refering to blogs. The discussions on this issue are already on Knowledge (XXG) without editors banging on about them. They done bad and have been stopped. enough already.

1104:

ASM.net was created anonymously to attack Gary Weiss and that suspicions that Bagley was behind it were soon confirmed. Even if you don't name the site, the article needs to say this. I'm failing to understand why the article ought not to say what is citably true.

4892:

The solution is not to remove the entire segment, as you did, but to attribute one version to the AP and add the Wall Street Journal account. We can't just ignore the AP. If the AP runs a correction, we can remove it. The two accounts are not mutually exclusive.

479:

information. It is not an attack on any Knowledge (XXG) editor by another editor to state the name of a web site which has made controversial comments even if some of those comments are directed at Knowledge (XXG) editors. NPA does not apply in article space.

2592:

supported by very little in the way of reliable sources. Perhaps if the company were to start turning a profit and were to stop being run by the criminally insane this would change, but until that turn of events there's relatively little to be done on our end.

4437:'s addition of an analysis quote by lawyers. What I added was a factual reporting of settlement, and of what Gradient admitted, as released in Reuters. People keep trying to add things that put this partial settlement in a negative light. That suffers from an 5128: 4736:

Why does this redirect here from Overstock.com? The company is STILL Overstock.com. Their URL is both O.CO and Overstock.com. Doesn't matter how much they rebrand.. until their company files paperwork as O.CO you can't list them as O.CO. This is asinine

2786:

Further violations: "despicable actions," "incriminating facts." When WP:BLP violations are pointed out ("criminally insane," "sociopathic," "lunatic"), it is poor form to respond with further violations and inflammatory remarks. It makes no difference who

4297:

In reporting the outcome of a lawsuit, fairness dictates that you be as even handed as possible. Reporting the home town paper's version of it's CEO's lawsuit needs to be balanced by the more skeptical reaction of a New York Times columnist of outstanding

223:

Given your username, advertising-like editing, and fervid interest with this article, it would seem that you may be employed or maintaining a self-interest in Overstock.com and that is cause for alarm for many other wikipedians as it is a violation of the

1459: 4612:

Here is law journal article that mentions Overstock.com several times, in reference to its litigation. It doesn't seem central to the article such as to warrant placing in your references section, but editors can draw upon it if desired as a resource:

3825:

Regarding rivals, I think it's just a matter of who they are up against (I believe "competitors" would mean the same thing). I don't see how it is controversial, although I believe I have seen it in captions. I can try to find a source if needed.

4662:

My question is, is this redirect accomplishing anything useful? And if not, what can be done about it? Is it ok to add information about AntiSocialMedia to the Overstock article? Or should the redirect be removed and a separate article created?

2661:

The article is hardly neutral as it stands (as explicitly noted above). Of course, the belief that the only two available takes on the subject are "run by a lunatic" or "full of flowers and puppy dogs" doesn't leave much room for neutrality.

291:

Stearns and Citigroup). Here's an article we could use as a reference that seems pretty neutral. I didn't want to just jump in and do the edit without discussion, since I can see that there has been a lot of back and forth editing already.

3272:

dropped to a four year low following the announcement, which a analyst for investment bank Broadpoint Capital described as a "key loss". Before the announcement, the Overstock stock price had flattened in recent weeks after a steep downturn.

1564:

Actually, I just checked the policies and can't find anywhere where it says that citations from opinion columns or editorials have to be identified as such. If so, then they can be used as sources just the same as any other reliable source.

4659:, but the section does not exist and there is nothing on the Overstock article that even talks about AntiSocialMedia. In other words, having searched for AntiSocialMedia, I am instead delivered to an article that tells me nothing about it. 684:

The reliable news sites used as sources don't mind mentioning the name of the site; wanting to suppress that information is merely a silly intra-Knowledge (XXG) taboo, which should have no place in rational discussion of article content.

911:

it all fits into the general controversy about overstock.com. Even if we don't name the website, I think we have to say that Bagley is its author. But not naming the website is little protection from finding it, since it is named in the

3967:

On June 6, 2008, Overstock reported that the Salt Lake City District SEC office had told them it had completed its investigation of the company and was recommending no enforcement action directed at Overstock or its officers.<ref:

1133:

I cannot fathom the logic behind this response. In your way of thinking, the fact that the person who told reporters that Joe Wilson was a hack and his trip to Nigeria was a set-up was actually the Vice-President's chief of staff is

5167:

In any case, this is the article about Overstock.com, precisely the place where this stuff belongs. People who genuinely do not care about Overstock (which included me until 10 min ago) would not come here and therefore don't mind.

1060:

The name of the site or its owner are just too tangential to the real substance of this article, which already says about as much as is warrented in an encyclopedia. Look, if you want to be a journalist, find an appropriate venue.

3649:) were coming from, they found this particular address- which was an obvious proxy, given the various unconnected strains of editing- was among various addresses he had used. It'd be interesting to know for sure that Overstock IPs 2017:

Agreed. It's being used to provide a negative shadow over the whole Overstock article. Maybe we should add a note to the Weiss article pointing to the Register articles instead? That is basically the same as what is going on here.

3291:

We'd probably need an independent news source on that. The attempts by Overstock employees to attack Knowledge (XXG)'s integrity are pretty obvious, but we need to show that a major independent authority considers them important.

1858:

This article reflects the reliable sourcing of this article, which is predominantly critical, because the reality of Overstock.com is not favorable. The Register, which I assume you adore, itself wrote a scathing article entitled

4968:

of this piece. It feels like it doesn't fit. Maybe someone (myself included) should create a piece on Brazell or his defunct company, but I'd suggest removing it here. But before doing that I thought I'd ask for some feedback.

4012:

Doesn't make the removal of the disclosure issues and the failure to state the full scope of the investigation - which covered issues unrelated to the accounting practices Overstock has been warned about - any more defensible.

4260:(D) To disclose on the relevant talk pages any circumstances (but not including personal identifying information) that constitute or may reasonably be perceived as constituting a conflict of interest with respect to that page. 640:

and the arbitrators votes to accept the case further up the page. The idea that NPA applies to article space is described as "absurd," "beyond merely absurd" and "nonsense on stilts." NPA applies to editors' dealings with

3778: 3766: 3754: 3735:

Apart from that and the Antisocialmedia.net campaign (which seems to have picked up minimal press coverage) the article seems somewhat sparse for one about a public listed business approaching its eleventh year of trading.

2052:

A section about AntiSocialMedia.Net seems far more appropriate in an article concerning Knowledge (XXG) itself, rather than in one about Overstock.Com. A couple of quick Google searches reveal that ASM has far more to say

326:

Having worked with the company that did the support for that (before they shipped it offshore), it's called LiveAgent, and while it may have seen "robotic" it was probably some poor sod in Bangalore or somewhere like that.

4855:

The reason behind the Google penalty was misstated in the Salt Lake Tribune article cited by John Nevard. The real reason was explained correctly by the Wall Street Journal and most every other source when it happened.

901:

Once again it takes some digging to find the actual "outing". The article on SlimVirgin presently on the front page is certainly accusatory, but it tries to present a factual basis for its accusations; it's not just an

3761:

After a bit of mucking around I've consolidated all the Bagley stuff in one place, under the Anti-naked shorts campaign. I've trimmed that detail to its bare essentials as it's peripheral to the company's activities.

818:

If you are disregarding the sources, you were making a point about nothing, just filling this page with noise. Of course it should be mentioned that although Byrne denied knowledge it was actually an employee of his.

4929:

Hundreds of customer complaints on multiple websites CAN'T just be a "fluke". It looks like they're a rip-off company, yet this company only mentions IPO lawsuits. Is someone at Overstock censoring this article????

1839:

This type of junk will continue in an open system. The job of the editors/admins is to mitigate the damage. But from what I can see (and the Register spent more time at this than I did) the admins are taking sides.

2522:

Good, how about people who have vested interests step aside and for a change let the neutral editors with no involvement in this issue make a decision on this topic?. May be that will help bring some transparency?

1199:

I tend to support the merger. This guy doesn't really seem to have any importance outside his association with this company. But the thing is, this article would then need to be more forthcoming about his actions.

5513:

The more general issue is whether there is a way to capture or refer to archived content in a way this broken link does not occur. Is the content still available on archive.org, just at a different archive link?

122:

Sellers, and although this may deserve mention it shouldn't account for half of the content that describes Overstock.com. Patrick also has his own page where the lawsuit and his personal views can be discussed.

2478:

OverStock and some of the Knowledge (XXG) administrators are involved in a public dispute. This Knowledge (XXG) article represents the views of the Knowledge (XXG) editors, and may be negative towards OverStock

1358:

Oh, come off it. A newspaper saying that an executive of a corporation and a notable financial writer are acting like children is not a dismissal of the incident. If it were a dismissal, they wouldn't cover it.

4944:

It _is_ odd to see Overstock so lauded on this page with no mention of the fact that its reputation among shoppers is so lousy (price switching, item switching, malware issues, horrid customer service, etc.).

3962:{{cite web|url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/05112007/business/company_byrne_d_on_probe_report_business_roddy_boyd.htm |title=Company Byrne-d on Probe Report |author=New York Post|date=May 11,2007}}</ref: --> 3955:{{cite web|url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/05112007/business/company_byrne_d_on_probe_report_business_roddy_boyd.htm |title=Company Byrne-d on Probe Report |author=New York Post|date=May 11,2007}}</ref: --> 363:

for any Knowledge (XXG) editor to insert that into the article. Besides, it's more trivial than encyclopedic. Is there precedent for mentioning a company-wide "wiki-ban" within the article about a company?

3593:

Anyone can be profitable over a week, especially if they're using their creative skills- and it doesn't take much to fool most journalists, given how well arbitarily excluding costs seems to have worked.

2361:

The general rule in situations when we have a source of questionable reliability so to give it a mention but make it clear that it is just their opinion, so something like "According to the Register..."

2346:

No it is not the most reliable of sources. I think that it is not a reliable source on Knowledge (XXG), against which it has shown a demonstrable bias. It may be reliable on other subjects but not this.

2173:

The section is sourced, when last I checked, entirely to sources that don't even mention Knowledge (XXG). Any Knowledge (XXG)-centric content you're reading into it is coming from you, not the article.

3502:

Note that the article was written for a book ending 2005... prior to the sinister manipulations by Secret Bankers and International Financiers that tragically crushed Byrne's hopes, and you can tell.

2437: 3725:

I think we're probably a bit too close to this affair. The "Antisocialmedia.net" section seems to be far too large and detailed, and concentrates rather heavily on Knowledge (XXG)-related matters.

2275:

When this article is next fixed (or when it's unprotected) could someone fix the following typo in the "Anti naked short-selling campaign" section, 3rd paragraph: "tortuous interference" should be "

2226:. The majority of sources that talk about ASM don't seem to focus on the Knowledge (XXG) aspect at all. (I'd be willing to change my opinion on this if sources were presented showing otherwise). 1555:

I believe that references to opinion writers in notable, credible journals or publications are allowed if it is made clear that the sourced information comes from an opinion column or editorial.

2416:

Now, in this case, I think it goes without saying that The Register is not a reliable source. It is at best inflammatory and highly biased. I haven't seen much serious debate to the contrary.

2574:"Overstock.com says its main rivals are eBay, Amazon.com Marketplace and Yahoo! Auctions; however, Overstock's revenues, site traffic and marketshare currently lag far behind eBay and Amazon." 5489:

Hi, I've removed the section, I can't think of any other company article that includes a list of all board members / executives. We maybe mention the CEO in the infobox, that's usually it. –

3810: 1181:

Overstock's arguments or "proof" on why they think this is happening. Sure I'm probably a tool cause i'm here via the Reg article, but i'd like to have links to both sides of the story. -

2609:

got it, so its about Knowledge (XXG) waging a Jihad against all unprofitable businesses run by lunatics...What a grand goal. Oh, don't forget, Knowledge (XXG) fits the criteria too :).

1255:

article also since it has been mentioned in a couple of major news sources. In fact, the NY Times article likened the dispute between Bagley and Weiss to two 14-year old adolescents.

541:

to establish notability. Someone could propose a theory that relativity is wrong and it could be mentioned in Discovery magazine and the NYT but that would not make it a notable view.

168:"inappropriate corporate behavior by the company" - in who's opinion? Yours, Yamla? What's "inappropriate? For a company to defend itself against illegal "behavior" against its stock? 3243:

The coverage makes this look like it is even more significant than the previous resignations. Might be useful to unprotect or drop to semi so we can build up a more complete picture.

3951:

From this we get "the company's accounting policies, targets, projections, and estimates relating to its financial performance."-- which excludes a number of rather important issues.

3807: 3775: 3763: 3751: 3737: 2756:

that you describe. My wording was strong, but we're making the same point - we are not to be held accountable for Overstock's generation of a long legacy of incriminating facts.

2572:

indication that the article doesn't represent standard objective writing for Knowledge (XXG). It reads much more like an attack on Overstock than a reference work. Bits like

4597: 3857:

Ah, I see the BusinessWeek article actually says "Amazon prices basically matched those of rivals eBay, Overstock, and Buy.com." Doesn't necessarily need a change, just FYI.

3740: 1921:

of the higher-ups of Knowledge (XXG) censoring, banning, whispering among themselves and denying which does the real damage (and provides the chief entertainment). Grow up!

5359:

I have fixed the article. A lot of the stuff about Byrne is COATRACK material that belongs in the article about Byrne. Please do not reintroduce any of the UNDUE coverage.

4356:

They conclude that Gradient didn't want to face a jury. That could be, or it could have been settled for mere nuisance value (maybe $ 0). I say we just stick to the facts.

94:

Naked Short Sellers. (Although this may deserve a mention, it shouldn't account for half the content that describes Overstock.com - Patrick has his own article for this).

4104:

Did you forget to change "is ongoing", or am I misunderstanding? I removed the present tense assuming that you just forgot, but let me know if the mistake is on my end. —

474:

governs interactions between editors only, and that two Arbitrators have said that it is "absurd" and "beyond merely absurd" to apply NPA to article space. Policies like

2442:. While not directly comparable, "The Register is a tabloid blog with a tiny audience and of virtually no importance outside a certain subculture" is clearly incorrect. 4666:

I doubt I personally would have time to devote to editing such an article, because I don't even know about the controversy and I'm unlikely to in the near future, but I

1210:

The AFD is determining that at the moment. Yes, it looks like a merger or a delete. However, that needs to be determined in the AfD process, now that that is underway.--

79:

appreciate it, but the entire article went from "okay" to "yay overstock!" because of the totality of the edits. That is just not appropriate for a wikipedia article.

5287: 5283: 5269: 1940:

The edit warring is continuing on this article. As such, I have protected the page. If consensus for changes can be reached here, it may be unblocked immediately. --

3944:

Mmm. Going ahead with text that states what has actually happened seems sensible, without the grandstanding and claims that this has greater scope than it really does.

2422:

virtually no importance outside a certain subculture. The story is mostly about Knowledge (XXG), and does not tell the reader much of value about this enterprise.--

1313:

A newspaper likening something on the web to a spat between two 14-year olds sould to me like a put-down of the whole thing as silly and trivial ... in other words,

732:

Hopefully a newspaper will report on it. That is their job. Feel free to send one of them a tip. This is an encyclopedia, not the Drudge Report or the NYT online.

1153:

tend to agree. The current mention of the smear campaign is commensurate with its significance, I think. I assume SlRubenstein isnt arguing for exclusion in toto.--

4349:

Most sources seem to think this was some kind of win for Overstock.com, even though the settlement is totally opaque. Here, for example, is the the well-respected

3178:

It's the best article it fits in, so long as ASM or Bagley don't have their own. It has been reported on in multiple reliable sources, so it's not self-reference.

431:

I have protected this page for a while in order to force the dispute to be discussed here. This is not an endorsement of this particular version of the page. --

2545:

Sure. The people with vested interests appear to be Cla68 and Dtobias, sources of the recent Register piece. Or are you ont aware what "vested interest" means?

774:, though he publicly supported it (investorvillage.com)... The New York Post reported last week that the anonymous operator of AntiSocialMedia was Judd Bagley, 4792:

Do publications meniton it as overstock or as o.co? If it's overstock.com, then I agree we should change it. A simple move of the webpage, IMO, is not enough.

3646: 5190:

The Arbitration Committee are proposing to remove sanctions related to this topic area which appear to be no longer required. Details of the proposal are at

2829:

And this is the exact problem I was describing: you cannot rules lawyer away the facts that make this article into a less positive portrayal than you'd like.

4586:

Can this article and talk page be unprotected now so that unregistered users can edit and make comments? We can quickly restore protection if necessary. --

3793: 778:...Mr. Bagley owned up to running the site...and Mr. Byrne set about defending him. "Judd is a reporter," he wrote. "The First Amendment applies to us, too 47: 17: 894:

The uncensored version says that "Both Bagley and Byrne have asserted that Overstock.com has no direct connection with the site." I don't see that in the

5247: 2392:

Joshua, given the sensational nature of this article and its claims concerning BLPs, I would not favor citing or referencing this article in any way. --

1836:

He/She just removed the reference I made with no cause. Also removed somewhat exculpatory info from other articles that did not meet his/her own bias.

586:

If yes, then should the article report reliable reports in the New York Times and other places that Overstock.com is associated with an attack web site?

4346:: 'It is a disgrace that regulators take these people seriously, and I believe that the funding and tactics of these people should be investigated.'" 4460:

John Nevard undid my reversion without a word of explanation. That's unacceptable. Talk it through here and gain consensus for this change. Thanks. ++

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is replaced by a section of text reading something like "In May 2006, a SEC investigation of Overstock.com and Byrne began.<ref name = NYPost: -->

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Do you seriously think that we should have an article for every person and website mentioned in the NYT and Bloomberg? Mention in these newspapers

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seeking information as to the company's accounting policies, targets, projections, and estimates relating to its financial performance.<ref: -->

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Hi, I came to Knowledge (XXG) looking for information about "AntiSocialMedia" because it was mentioned in an article about Knowledge (XXG), here

1692:. If anything makes wikipedia look bad, its ignoring the democracy that attempts to keep it neutral. Better to link to an article, saying "This 4984: 4169: 3650: 3252: 2663: 2578: 2459:

Please use the section above titled "Register Article" to discuss the register article, rather than starting a new section on the talk page.

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I'm admitting that Judd Bagley thinks Knowledge (XXG) is critical of Overstock. Personally, I think the article is well-sourced and careful.

2062: 2037:. I personally don't care one way or the other, but I do think an executive of the company attacking critics of the company is worth noting. 4688: 637: 467: 463: 5537: 5048: 3678:

construction "through which he directed his internet traffic, including one his ISP used to service 800 homes," doesn't make that clear.

4811: 4183: 2924:- someone else who is having trouble with harassment by overstock, by the looks of it. Note to TwakTwik: the overstock nonsense started 2004: 1903: 1801: 264: 214: 184: 138: 110: 2208:

Sorry -- when I said "ASM content" I meant the content on the ASM site, not the ASM-related content in the Overstock article. Fixed.

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I don't really believe this section is relevant to OverStock.com. I say it needs to be removed or moved to the article on Judd Bagley.

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The solution for this public relations problem is for bad news not to happen, and that is Overstock's problem not Knowledge (XXG)'s.--

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page. The effect of this kind of violation is to make it seem to others that you should not be involved in the editing of this page.

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and Knowledge (XXG) editors are not a monolith anyhow. We will come to a consensus about how to approach this and will do so in a

4632: 3732:. Perhaps the solution is to redact the one in Byrne's article and reference it to this article for more detail, or vice versa. 1534: 868:

This dispute seems to have gotten to the point where the factual merits of the two versions are getting obscured. Looking at the

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It seems Overstock is abandoning O.co, as their website now considers o.co a "shortcut". Should the article's title be changed?

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I'm not sure why we would expand it after it has been closed; if anything the details currently given no longer seem relevant.

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article doesn't even mention Bagley by name. There are a series of editorial judgements to be made in relation to this issue:

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If you'd like to include the article, you would have to paraphrase what it says. Looking through, I see this article stated:

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be a problem here" and also possibly NPOV'ing this article as a whole, than leave this issue to get referenced by people like

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and was disappointed. I'd rather see a page on Judd Bagley (critical or not, I don't care) than it merged with his employer.

805:

Sources I cite? i did not cite any sources. I was however making a rhetorical point. I thought you would understand that.

3897:. The sentence saying the SEC investigation is "ongoing" can be changed to "concluded with no action against the company."-- 2791:

the "nonsense", nor does it make a difference whether this is an article or a talk page: BLP violations are unacceptable on

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I suggest that the section of text "An SEC investigation of Overstock.com and Byrne is ongoing,<ref name = NYPost: -->

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Carolyn Doran that Overstock were less than pleased. But it does show some mainstream journalism on the topic. See also

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or their competitors they are bound by certain rules.) It is unfathomable that this would be considered "tangential."

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really falls into the category of inside baseball Knowledge (XXG) triva. It has little bearing on the company itself.--

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neighboring town. And then there's Compaq Computer which says "Houston" but their campus is located ~20 miles away.

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Also, while Overstock has become associated with the naked shorts campaign, we have a section on the same campaign in

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https://web.archive.org/20110629044437/http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Overstock-adds-RICO-claim-to-apf-3448406367.html

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Do you seriously think that we should have an article for every person and website mentioned in the NYT and Bloomberg

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I really don't think their is any need for this discussion. Knowledge (XXG) actively urges editors to step back from

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version". Furthermore, Knowledge (XXG) has many articles about topics which are critical of Knowledge (XXG) such as

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Knowledge (XXG) is hardly waging a jihad. It's reporting, neutrally, the existing source material. I'm pretty sure

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Explosiveness does not point towards the use of less reliable sources. If anything, it demands higher reliability.

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could take this article under his wing. There is no reason that this article can't be GA status one day. Cheers —

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If the page is closed to general editing, shouldn't there be an appropriate template at the head of the article?

589:

If yes, then should the article mention the name of the web master of the site, who is an Overstock.com employee?

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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So far, the anonymous reverter failed to show up in this consensus discussion. So all we have to go on is their

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Something we are generally more forgiving of in talk pages as we try to discuss what needs to go into articles.

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Except that you have reverted to a version that obscures the name of the person and the web site. I can see no

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NPA only says that because someone slipped it in when no one was paying attention. Please read the comments at

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also notes that Knowledge (XXG) fails to turn a profit. Of course, as a nonprofit, that's not that surprising.

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system that caused mistakes in accounting for customer refunds and order cancellations. References would be:

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I added a Fortune article. I think it is essential to have both sides of the story in reporting litigation.--

1907: 1805: 1089:- if you want to report on current events go to wikimedia. It just is not worthy of encyclopedic treatment. 5519: 4102:

An SEC investigation of Overstock.com and Byrne is ongoing . . . The investigation was dropped in June 2008.

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that basis but feel free to add something back which is a balanced set of quotes, not just one negative. ++

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Kanaracus,Chris (Novemeber 2, 2008). "Overstock's ERP Woes Force It to Restate Results". IDG News Service.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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in national newspapers related to their previous spates of readjustment of previously reported earnings.

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http://investors.overstock.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=131091&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1163321</ref: -->

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This is something we really have no excuse for not being precise upon. The address that was blocked was

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It's a tabloid which tends to be partisan and sensationalistic, agree that it's not a reliable source.

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I added the edit protected tag. As a non controversial edit I don't think an admin will mind doing it

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editable by us proles who aren't part of the ruling class of this so-called community-driven website?

1860: 1398: 5495: 5385: 4714: 4628: 4624: 4390: 4376: 4303: 4247:(A) To edit on these from only a single user account, which shall be the user's sole or main account; 3527: 3458: 3403: 3281: 3202: 3169: 2982: 2397: 2352: 1868: 284: 5076: 5023: 3837: 3500: 3436: 3380: 5158: 5136: 5096:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Overstock.com&diff=590139333&oldid=590138799#Bitcoin

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Apparently the paragraph was added on 3 June and has stayed that way, unmolested, until recently.--

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OK, Bloomberg (a highly respectable business news service) mentions antisocialmedia.net by name in

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like to prevent another user from having to repeat my futile search/redirect experience. Thanks,

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Ok, based on this material later today I will propose on this talk page a sentence or two to add.

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OK. I think that as long as this is properly sourced, as it is now, there should be no problem.--

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There is more complete and better sourced (Using at least two more reliable sources) material at

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/28/magazines/fortune/overstock_1128.fortune/?postversion=2007112817

5306: 5229: 4894: 4830: 4778: 4536: 4191: 4129: 4086: 4064: 3999: 3931: 3898: 3359: 3197:. His latest exploits are a bit off on the rim as far as Overstock is concerned, in my view.-- 3128: 3110: 3078: 2907: 2513: 2367: 2336: 2231: 2099: 1958: 1594: 1322: 1285: 1243: 1168: 1115: 1090: 1062: 844: 831: 806: 733: 704: 662: 601:

recommended delete, by the way) that neither the employee nor the web site should be named in

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Sage, Alexandria (Oct 24, 2008). "Overstock posts smaller loss, to restate results". Reuters.

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hearing from Google, but said some university webmasters have been slow to remove the links.

4568: 4434: 4280: 4253:(C) To edit in accordance with all Knowledge (XXG) policies and to refrain from any form of 4250:(B) To edit only through a conventional ISP and not through any form of proxy configuration; 4014: 3971: 3917: 3916:, complete with the usual outlandish claims, seems to be a little ambiguous on the subject. 3873: 3729: 3702: 3657: 3619: 3595: 3542: 3503: 3364: 3293: 3244: 3216: 3057: 2730: 2464: 2447: 2423: 2094:

So you're admitting that Knowledge (XXG) is a critic of Overstock? What happened to NPOV? --

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comprehensive article, whether it violates the letter of some alphabet soup policy or not.

407: 5313: 3645:. When administrators checked where Bagley's latest accounts (a few of which are listed at 3320:

http://investors.overstock.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=131091&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1090658

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A couple of sentences on Bagley's website and its actions probably need to be added to the

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Policy states that reliable sources are those with fact checking and editorial oversight.

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anonymous; it says "This website created and maintained by Judd Bagley" on the first page.

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Interesting overview, looks at how Byrne succeeded in just missing the dot-com boom/bust.

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The consensus on AfD was to move the material to this article - it previously resided at

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made and strive to prevent them in the future. This requires introspection and honesty.

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article even though it in all other respects covers the naked short selling controversy.

475: 5151:" No one in the real world gives a shit about Bitcoins and no one cares about Overstock" 1546:"BSalert.com" is gone. The rest are indisputably RS sources. There are no blogs cited.-- 5272:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 5154: 5132: 4919: 4793: 4738: 4534:; there was also a mention in AP but I don't have the full ref for that at the moment. 2302: 2280: 1732: 1280:

Only if that was a major notable thing about Gary Weiss, which is outside the scope of

1114:

I agree it should be acurate, but old news makes Bagley even less worthy of inclusion.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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What the site has to say about Overstock's critics, however, is far more substantial.

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Please to explain why even if you think there should be no article on the employee (I

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and they are going to be working toward that name, we should probably keep it there.

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Byrne did not disclose his subpoena until the following May.<ref name=NYPost/: -->

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city names, providing a practically limitless source of contradiction and confusion.

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I am not disregarding the sources. Therefore, I am making a pooint about something.

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Should the article on Overstock.com mention its crusade against naked short selling?

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said that it "mandates" not including, but that is no longer a settled question. --

365: 347: 275: 238: 80: 4651:. Wondering who or what this organization is, I searched the wiki, and came upon 3652:

were in the ranges used abusively for AntiSocialMedia purposes, but unfortunately

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The longstanding, brief reference to ASM in the article is consistent with that.--

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effect, but then removed as I am not sure about use of a block log as a source.--

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http://investors.overstock.com/static-files/9ec7a970-a230-4e86-b250-8bf67c5bd3ea

5434:

http://investors.overstock.com/static-files/2b8b6a28-f3c1-44cd-8f78-41ca1a61a0c0

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Knowledge (XXG):Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Motion: Removal of Unused Sanctions

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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An administrator needs to insert that the SEC investigation was concluded. See

3746:

I've started a discussion about how to cover the Anti-naked shorts campaign at

520:"Revisiting Overstock.com And Utah" The New York Times, March 10, 2007 page C1 5278:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 5252:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Overstock-adds-RICO-claim-to-apf-3448406367.html

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because of the lengthy sentences that I took out, so I removed the POV box. --

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concerning any external controversy, dispute, allegation, or proceeding; and

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Hello? Someone out there needs to insert that the investigation concluded.--

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What happens to an encyclopedia or reference work that loses credibility?

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which is already linked as a reference. Why obscure the name of the site?

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http://www1.law.nyu.edu/journals/lawbusiness/issues/uploads/5-1/NYB103.pdf

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The Arbitration Committee retains jurisdiction over this article based on

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enforcement action is contemplated against company officers and directors.

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Is there anything out there on the investigation into Byrne's activities?

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It did end without taking action. I tend to lean in that direction too.--

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http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jan2008/pi2008013_802926.htm

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heck isn't an endorsement of the current application of NPA to articles.

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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TheRegister has 30,000,000 page impressions a month and 5,000,000 users

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http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINWNAS748220080606?rpc=44

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So yes, you're disputing the communities reliability consideration of

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests_for_arbitration#BADSITES_.2F_NPA_in_articles

464:

Knowledge (XXG):Requests_for_arbitration#BADSITES_.2F_NPA_in_articles

359:. I'm tempted to add that to the article, but it would run afoul of 3211:

If that's your precise point, you might need to find a new one. The

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in here unless and until confirmed by a high-quality media source -

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as well as the Arbitrators' votes to accept or decline the case at

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

5104:. Let's discuss why the section should or should not be included. 537:

deomnstrate notability, but I do not think one or two mentions is

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issues. It's full of references to bloggers and opinion writers.

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where your comments are invited. For the Arbitration Committee,

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by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

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by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

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you could simply edit/make suggestions to the offensive parts?

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There seems to be an edit war going on over the section about

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Huge number of customer complaints on consumer affairs website

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http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/STOCK%20ALERT/957425/

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Nobody cares. Seriously. It's just self-referential trivia.

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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070202/overstock_com_lawsuit.html?.v=1

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city that an address is located in can be quickly confirmed.

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DOES NO ONE CARE? THE COMPANY IS OVERSTOCK.COM PEOPLE!!!!!

3637:(with advertising, personal attacks, outing attempts etc now 5257:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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I guess this is the place to get opinions of others, right?

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A possibly more reliable piece on Bagley and Knowledge (XXG)

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Should be included because it's a notable event covered by

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yeah, uh huh, I did not mention NPA in what I wrote above.

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http://www.my3cents.com/search.cgi?criteria=overstock.com

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that some brave soul can't give it a go. I looked at the

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The article is currently protected on a version with the

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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Sorry for the confusion. Your fix was correct. Thanks.--

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link to the Register article, especially now it has hit

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that, I suspect, will end up being merged here soonish.

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland

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SEC Form 10Q filed by Overstock.com, dated May 9, 2007

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policy prevents revelation of information like that.

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a reason why it is not worth adding this stuff to an

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http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/overstock.html

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newspapers is not enough to make something notable.

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Overstock IP address range banned by Knowledge (XXG)

346:, someone at overstock.com is editing this article. 5282:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3641:). It's either a proxy server or a router used for 5510:and essentially refers to the content as missing. 5459:Add Barbara H. Messing to Board of Directors Table 4085:I just added a sentence to the previous version.-- 1453:Non-attributed nearly direct quote from hedgeworld 770:shares that is explained at Knowledge (XXG).com). 3239:Overstock President/COO's/Director's resignation. 3030:As it stands now this article has a one sentence 468:Knowledge (XXG):Requests_for_arbitration#BADSITES 4824:I don't think we should change it. According to 4687:I ended up nominating the redirect for deletion 3748:Talk:Patrick M. Byrne#Anti-naked shorts campaign 3647:Category:Knowledge (XXG) sockpuppets of WordBomb 3048:for comparison). Finally, perhaps someone from 2061:seems largely incidental to the site's content. 1861:"The bizarre world of Patrick Byrne's Overstock" 5420:Add William Nettles to Board of Directors Table 3522:while, but I'd like to get his input on this.-- 3517:It is a good source, thanks. John, I have some 1435:sitename of that criticism/attack site... it's 5268:This message was posted before February 2018. 2902:. Do we have a citation for this comparison? 2439:; NYTimes has daily circulation of 1,000,000 872:article and the offending website, and using 592:Should this employee have a separate article? 8: 5505:Broken Link (and more general issue thereof) 4479:article is as John's second edit again... ++ 3930:Good point. This source is silent on that.-- 918:There is a long discussion of the matter in 18:Talk:Bed Bath & Beyond (online retailer) 4806:Particularly the second article from CNET: 2474:Admin, please add the below sentence at top 4644:Bad Redirect from Antisocialmedia Article? 3808:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 3776:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 3764:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 3752:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 3738:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 3329: 3327: 1407:was added at 18:06, 8 December 2007 (GMT) 772:Mr. Byrne denied knowing who ran the site 228:guidelines, since you will hardly have a 4653:a redirected article for Antisocialmedia 4082:investigation was dropped in June 2008. 4530:(carried in NYT and Computerworld) and 4150: 3312: 3238: 554:This isn't the deletion discussion for 5395:Proposed Updates to Board of Directors 4521: 4510: 4200: 4189: 4170:Appeals court sides with Overstock.com 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4243:Restrictions...Editors are directed: 2057:itself, and what it does have to say 776:Overstock's director for social media 74:While some of what was just added by 7: 5129:plenty of reputable mainstream media 3834:) 13:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC) Links: 3495:This article is an interesting read 312:On their website today looking for 150:This is inappropriate. Please see 5462:Barbara H. Messing, Director, 2020 1584:hmmm, interesting article over at 970:we citizens are the journalists." 782:we citizens are the journalists." 344:http://wired.reddit.com/wikidgame/ 24: 5222:. Please take a moment to review 4657:Overstock.com#AntiSocialMedia.net 4184:"Company Byrne-d on Probe Report" 2928:of this article, not vice-versa. 5441: 5402: 3363:that things could get confused. 2508:manner as we do for all issues. 2482:And also, please apply POV tag. 1700:as to why wikipedia is useless. 237:important to maintain as well. 29: 5423:William Nettles, Director, 2020 3914:This more comprehensive article 3088:I would be supportive of that. 5524:14:19, 16 September 2023 (UTC) 5206:21:06, 23 September 2015 (UTC) 5011:19:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC) 4701:04:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC) 3559:"It has never been profitable" 3360:This relatively recent article 1506:This article has some serious 1492:01:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 1465:22:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC) 1448:16:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 1364:16:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1330:14:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1289:14:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1260:00:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1247:20:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 1196:Can we talk about this a bit? 1185:18:16, 18 December 2007 (GMT) 1: 5369:17:36, 9 September 2016 (UTC) 5354:20:03, 7 September 2016 (UTC) 5057:17:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC) 4940:06:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 4841:07:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC) 4820:03:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC) 4639:10:47, December 5, 2009 (UTC) 4607:19:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 4591:19:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 4182:New York Post (May 11,2007). 3711:07:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC) 3614:Language like "blocks of his 3588:Special:Contributions/Quasi78 3133:17:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC) 3119:13:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC) 3098:08:02, 17 December 2007 (UTC) 3083:16:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC) 3061:17:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC) 3014:08:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC) 2987:20:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC) 2961:20:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC) 2942:07:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC) 2877:03:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 2839:02:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 2805:00:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 2766:19:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 2739:18:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 2559:07:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC) 2502:Criticisms of Knowledge (XXG) 2469:14:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC) 2452:11:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 2432:18:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 1931:10:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 1912:18:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC) 1810:18:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC) 1614:bulletproof in our sourcing. 1229:00:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 1215:19:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1205:19:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1176:22:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1158:20:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1148:20:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1123:20:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1109:19:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1098:18:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1080:18:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1070:18:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1049:17:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1027:17:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 1003:17:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 986:17:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 945:17:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 931:17:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 857:09:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 824:23:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 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January 2014 (UTC) 5122:02:01, 11 January 2014 (UTC) 5085:23:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC) 4989:23:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC) 4802:19:08, 6 November 2011 (UTC) 4787:12:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC) 4577:01:06, 7 November 2008 (UTC) 4565:number of other news stories 4556:20:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC) 4543:05:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC) 4492:00:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 4473:00:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 4454:00:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 4421:20:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 4395:15:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 4381:14:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 4366:19:55, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 4327:17:22, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 4308:00:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 3688:05:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC) 3666:05:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC) 3628:04:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC) 3604:09:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC) 3578:08:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC) 3551:04:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC) 3532:17:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC) 3512:10:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC) 3489:10:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC) 3463:16:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC) 3302:06:47, 11 January 2008 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2126:18:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC) 2104:18:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC) 2086:20:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 2071:20:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 2047:19:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 2028:18:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 2013:18:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1989:18:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1967:17:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1950:17:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1889:17:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC) 1873:18:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1853:18:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1741:18:07, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1710:16:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1672:16:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1650:16:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1624:15:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1607:10:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 953:New York Times Jan 20, 2007. 338:Overstock.com editing itself 321:18:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC) 5538:Implemented requested edits 5499:13:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC) 5484:18:07, 21 August 2020 (UTC) 4909:15:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC) 4885:05:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC) 4767:03:32, 10 August 2011 (UTC) 4158:SEC kills probe of Gradient 3643:network address translation 3445:17:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC) 3408:16:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC) 3389:00:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC) 3373:03:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC) 3286:20:15, 7 January 2008 (UTC) 3253:02:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC) 1570:02:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 1560:02:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 1551:02:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 1522:01:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 351:22:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC) 279:17:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC) 242:13:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC) 84:18:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC) 5554: 5299:(last update: 5 June 2024) 5240:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 5215:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 5032:23:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC) 4996:Cottonwood Heights vs. SLC 4288:22:09, 13 March 2008 (UTC) 4038:Looks clear enough to me: 3882:23:32, 22 March 2008 (UTC) 3867:15:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC) 3852:13:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC) 3811:02:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3794:02:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 3779:17:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3767:12:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3755:12:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 3741:11:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 2898:marketshare appears to be 5390:20:41, 28 July 2017 (UTC) 5178:11:16, 5 March 2014 (UTC) 5147:original revert rationale 4955:14:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC) 4747:17:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC) 4724:22:55, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 4553:user_talk:paulfromatlanta 4265:Do not remove this notice 4059:15:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC) 4023:07:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC) 4008:22:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC) 3994:15:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC) 3980:15:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC) 3471:No marketing controversy? 1427:Antisocialmedia site name 4682:14:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC) 4138:14:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 4120:06:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 4095:23:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 4073:12:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 3940:23:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC) 3926:02:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC) 3907:19:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC) 2920:Has everyone seen this? 1140:director of social media 576:Um, what? The March 10 5344:actual company itself. 5211:External links modified 4655:. The redirect is for 3259:overstock at 4 year low 1828:What is transparency? 1794:collapsing on itself. 876:, I see the following: 753:the sources you cite? 4960:Founder Robert Brazell 4520:Check date values in: 4199:Check date values in: 4100:Hm, your version says 1698:Encyclopedia Britanica 1517:please let me know. -- 864:Comparing the versions 5339:Non-Neutral and Undue 3073:. Fit for inclusion? 3050:WikiProject Companies 2277:Tortious interference 1539:few or no other edits 230:neutral point of view 193:Updates - suggestions 42:of past discussions. 5280:regular verification 5265:to let others know. 5226:. If necessary, add 4858:You can read it here 4500:Restating financials 4439:undue weight problem 3355:Salt Lake/Cottonwood 3213:notability guideline 3054:WikiProject Websites 1541:outside this topic. 393:Conflict of Interest 5270:After February 2018 5261:parameter below to 3180:Bramlet Abercrombie 1999:AntiSocialMedia.net 1896:Bravo! Well said. 1437:antisocialmedia.net 5465:Source: SEC filing 5429:Bulleted list item 5426:Source: SEC filing 5275:InternetArchiveBot 5186:Arbitration Motion 5068:absolutely nothing 3721:Possible imbalance 3610:Re. Wikpedia block 3026:Unsolicited review 2568:There ought to be 1881:Xcvzxcvzxcvxcvzxcv 884:names the website. 342:FYI: According to 89:Changing it back.. 5456: 5455: 5417: 5416: 5332: 5300: 5119: 5047:comment added by 4992: 4975:comment added by 4907: 4888: 4871:comment added by 4757:comment added by 4727: 4640: 4637: 4623:comment added by 4335:Salt Lake Tribune 4239:Article probation 4160:February 14, 2007 3398:outlined above.-- 3153: 2940: 2900:original research 2557: 2224:original research 1914: 1902:comment added by 1812: 1800:comment added by 1609: 1593:comment added by 1542: 1494: 1480:Uncle uncle uncle 1478:comment added by 1462:Uncle uncle uncle 1408: 977: 976: 859: 843:comment added by 789: 788: 385: 384: 269: 255:comment added by 219: 205:comment added by 189: 175:comment added by 146: 129:comment added by 118: 101:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5545: 5445: 5444: 5438: 5406: 5405: 5399: 5361:GigglesnortHotel 5346:GigglesnortHotel 5328: 5327:Talk to my owner 5323: 5298: 5297: 5276: 5241: 5233: 5203: 5117: 5113: 5111: 5107: 5066:Mail volume has 5059: 5019:Salt Lake County 4991: 4977:Borderline Angst 4969: 4897: 4887: 4865: 4838: 4833: 4769: 4722: 4638: 4636: 4617: 4604: 4541: 4539: 4533: 4529: 4523: 4518: 4516: 4508: 4435:User:John Nevard 4293:Gradient lawsuit 4286: 4283: 4277: 4231: 4226: 4220: 4215: 4209: 4208: 4202: 4197: 4195: 4187: 4179: 4173: 4167: 4161: 4155: 4110: 3730:Patrick M. Byrne 3481:Alph Tech STUART 3347: 3342: 3336: 3331: 3322: 3317: 3262:bizweek overview 3147: 2934: 2551: 1897: 1795: 1588: 1580:Register Article 1524: 1473: 1470:Fixed by JulesH 1402: 959: 838: 794:Emphasis added. 763: 416: 413: 410: 403: 400: 370: 369: 268: 249: 226:autobiographical 218: 199: 188: 169: 145: 123: 117: 95: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5553: 5552: 5548: 5547: 5546: 5544: 5543: 5542: 5528: 5527: 5507: 5442: 5403: 5397: 5377: 5341: 5331: 5326: 5291: 5284:have permission 5274: 5235: 5227: 5213: 5196: 5188: 5115: 5109: 5105: 5093: 5042: 4998: 4970: 4962: 4917: 4866: 4853: 4836: 4831: 4775: 4752: 4734: 4709: 4646: 4618: 4602: 4584: 4537: 4535: 4531: 4519: 4509: 4506: 4502: 4295: 4281: 4270: 4267: 4241: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4227: 4223: 4216: 4212: 4198: 4188: 4181: 4180: 4176: 4168: 4164: 4156: 4152: 4117: 4106: 4083: 3892: 3823: 3723: 3612: 3561: 3497: 3473: 3357: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3343: 3339: 3332: 3325: 3318: 3314: 3269: 3241: 3068: 3028: 2664:216.170.165.235 2633:Knowledge (XXG) 2579:216.170.165.235 2476: 2328: 2326:Register claims 2273: 2243:216.170.165.235 2210:216.170.165.235 2145:216.170.165.235 2063:216.170.165.235 2059:about Overstock 2001: 1979:Yes, sorry. -- 1938: 1582: 1504: 1455: 1429: 1194: 1131:Too tangential? 887:The website is 866: 757:, Jan 20, 2007: 429: 414: 411: 408: 401: 398: 340: 310: 285:Paulfromatlanta 250: 200: 195: 170: 124: 96: 91: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5551: 5549: 5541: 5540: 5530: 5529: 5506: 5503: 5502: 5501: 5474: 5472: 5471: 5466: 5463: 5460: 5454: 5453: 5446: 5431: 5430: 5427: 5424: 5421: 5415: 5414: 5407: 5396: 5393: 5376: 5373: 5372: 5371: 5340: 5337: 5324: 5318: 5317: 5310: 5255: 5254: 5246:Added archive 5212: 5209: 5187: 5184: 5183: 5182: 5181: 5180: 5143: 5092: 5089: 5088: 5087: 5072: 5063: 5062: 5061: 5060: 5049:71.254.121.153 5035: 5034: 4997: 4994: 4961: 4958: 4916: 4913: 4912: 4911: 4852: 4851:Google Penalty 4849: 4848: 4847: 4846: 4845: 4844: 4843: 4774: 4771: 4733: 4730: 4728: 4708: 4705: 4704: 4703: 4645: 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339: 336: 335: 334: 318:64.229.147.133 309: 306: 282: 281: 245: 244: 234:sockpuppetting 194: 191: 166: 165: 90: 87: 71: 70:Spam reversion 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5550: 5539: 5536: 5535: 5533: 5526: 5525: 5521: 5517: 5511: 5504: 5500: 5497: 5494: 5493: 5488: 5487: 5486: 5485: 5481: 5477: 5470: 5467: 5464: 5461: 5458: 5457: 5451: 5447: 5440: 5439: 5436: 5435: 5428: 5425: 5422: 5419: 5418: 5412: 5408: 5401: 5400: 5394: 5392: 5391: 5387: 5383: 5375:Update needed 5374: 5370: 5366: 5362: 5358: 5357: 5356: 5355: 5351: 5347: 5338: 5336: 5335: 5329: 5322: 5315: 5311: 5308: 5304: 5303: 5302: 5295: 5289: 5285: 5281: 5277: 5271: 5266: 5264: 5260: 5253: 5249: 5245: 5244: 5243: 5239: 5231: 5225: 5221: 5220:Overstock.com 5216: 5210: 5208: 5207: 5204: 5201: 5200: 5193: 5185: 5179: 5175: 5171: 5166: 5165: 5164: 5160: 5156: 5152: 5148: 5144: 5142: 5138: 5134: 5130: 5126: 5125: 5124: 5123: 5118: 5112: 5103: 5098: 5097: 5090: 5086: 5082: 5078: 5073: 5069: 5065: 5064: 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4444: 4440: 4436: 4433: 4422: 4418: 4414: 4409: 4405: 4401: 4400: 4398: 4397: 4396: 4392: 4388: 4384: 4382: 4378: 4374: 4369: 4368: 4367: 4364: 4363: 4359: 4355: 4353: 4348: 4345: 4340: 4336: 4332: 4331: 4328: 4325: 4321: 4317: 4312: 4311: 4310: 4309: 4305: 4301: 4298:reputation.-- 4292: 4290: 4289: 4284: 4278: 4276: 4274: 4266: 4259: 4256: 4252: 4249: 4246: 4245: 4244: 4238: 4230: 4225: 4222: 4219: 4214: 4211: 4206: 4193: 4185: 4178: 4175: 4171: 4166: 4163: 4159: 4154: 4151: 4147: 4139: 4135: 4131: 4127: 4126: 4125: 4124: 4121: 4116: 4111: 4109: 4103: 4099: 4098: 4097: 4096: 4092: 4088: 4079: 4075: 4074: 4070: 4066: 4061: 4060: 4056: 4052: 4045: 4041: 4040: 4039: 4024: 4020: 4016: 4011: 4010: 4009: 4005: 4001: 3997: 3996: 3995: 3991: 3987: 3983: 3982: 3981: 3977: 3973: 3966:</ref: --> 3960: 3957:</ref: --> 3953: 3950: 3946: 3943: 3942: 3941: 3937: 3933: 3929: 3928: 3927: 3923: 3919: 3915: 3911: 3910: 3909: 3908: 3904: 3900: 3896: 3890:Investigation 3889: 3883: 3879: 3875: 3870: 3869: 3868: 3864: 3860: 3856: 3855: 3854: 3853: 3849: 3845: 3842: 3840: 3838: 3836: 3833: 3829: 3820: 3812: 3809: 3805: 3804: 3803: 3802: 3801: 3800: 3795: 3791: 3787: 3782: 3781: 3780: 3777: 3772: 3771: 3768: 3765: 3760: 3759: 3756: 3753: 3749: 3745: 3744: 3743: 3742: 3739: 3733: 3731: 3726: 3720: 3712: 3708: 3704: 3699: 3698: 3697: 3696: 3695: 3694: 3689: 3686: 3685: 3681: 3676: 3673: 3672: 3671: 3670: 3667: 3663: 3659: 3655: 3651: 3648: 3644: 3640: 3636: 3632: 3631: 3630: 3629: 3625: 3621: 3617: 3609: 3605: 3601: 3597: 3592: 3589: 3585: 3582: 3581: 3580: 3579: 3576: 3575: 3571: 3565: 3558: 3552: 3548: 3544: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3536: 3533: 3529: 3525: 3520: 3516: 3515: 3514: 3513: 3509: 3505: 3501: 3494: 3492: 3490: 3486: 3482: 3477: 3470: 3464: 3460: 3456: 3452: 3451: 3450: 3449: 3446: 3442: 3438: 3433: 3432: 3427: 3426: 3421: 3420: 3415: 3414: 3409: 3405: 3401: 3396: 3395: 3394: 3393: 3390: 3386: 3382: 3377: 3376: 3375: 3374: 3370: 3366: 3361: 3354: 3346: 3341: 3338: 3335: 3330: 3328: 3324: 3321: 3316: 3313: 3309: 3303: 3299: 3295: 3290: 3289: 3288: 3287: 3283: 3279: 3273: 3267:Proposed para 3266: 3264: 3263: 3260: 3257: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3226: 3222: 3218: 3214: 3210: 3209: 3208: 3204: 3200: 3196: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3185: 3181: 3177: 3176: 3175: 3171: 3167: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3156: 3151: 3146: 3145: 3140: 3139: 3134: 3130: 3126: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3116: 3112: 3108: 3103: 3102: 3099: 3095: 3091: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3080: 3076: 3072: 3065: 3063: 3062: 3059: 3055: 3051: 3047: 3043: 3038: 3033: 3025: 3015: 3011: 3007: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2995: 2988: 2984: 2980: 2976: 2972: 2971: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2962: 2958: 2954: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2946: 2943: 2938: 2933: 2932: 2927: 2923: 2919: 2918: 2913: 2909: 2905: 2901: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2878: 2874: 2870: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2858: 2857: 2856: 2855: 2854: 2853: 2840: 2836: 2832: 2831:Phil Sandifer 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2824: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2806: 2802: 2798: 2794: 2790: 2785: 2784: 2783: 2782: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2776: 2767: 2763: 2759: 2758:Phil Sandifer 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2740: 2736: 2732: 2727: 2726: 2725: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2717: 2713: 2709: 2708:Phil Sandifer 2705: 2704: 2703: 2702: 2699: 2695: 2691: 2687: 2683: 2682: 2673: 2669: 2665: 2660: 2659: 2658: 2657: 2656: 2655: 2654: 2653: 2646: 2642: 2638: 2637:Phil Sandifer 2634: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2620: 2616: 2612: 2608: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2594:Phil Sandifer 2589: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2575: 2571: 2560: 2555: 2550: 2549: 2544: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2534: 2530: 2526: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2507: 2503: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2491: 2487: 2483: 2480: 2473: 2471: 2470: 2466: 2462: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2441: 2438: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2429: 2425: 2420: 2419: 2415: 2414: 2409: 2408: 2403: 2399: 2395: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2385: 2381: 2380:FeloniousMonk 2377: 2373: 2369: 2365: 2360: 2359: 2358: 2354: 2350: 2345: 2344: 2343: 2342: 2338: 2334: 2325: 2323: 2322: 2319: 2312: 2308: 2304: 2300: 2297: 2296:editprotected 2293: 2292: 2291: 2290: 2286: 2282: 2278: 2270: 2252: 2248: 2244: 2239: 2238: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2221: 2220: 2219: 2215: 2211: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2203: 2202: 2201: 2200: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2176:Phil Sandifer 2172: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2154: 2150: 2146: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2137: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2127: 2123: 2119: 2118:Phil Sandifer 2115: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2105: 2101: 2097: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2087: 2083: 2079: 2078:Phil Sandifer 2075: 2074: 2073: 2072: 2068: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2048: 2044: 2040: 2039:Phil Sandifer 2036: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2015: 2014: 2010: 2006: 2005:70.230.18.214 1998: 1990: 1986: 1982: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1968: 1964: 1960: 1956: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1951: 1947: 1943: 1935: 1933: 1932: 1928: 1924: 1913: 1909: 1905: 1904:66.80.107.196 1901: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1891: 1890: 1886: 1882: 1874: 1870: 1866: 1862: 1857: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1850: 1846: 1841: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1811: 1807: 1803: 1802:66.80.107.196 1799: 1792: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1742: 1738: 1734: 1729: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1723: 1722: 1721: 1720: 1711: 1707: 1703: 1699: 1695: 1691: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1683: 1682: 1681: 1680: 1673: 1669: 1665: 1664:Phil Sandifer 1661: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1657: 1656: 1651: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1634: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1625: 1621: 1617: 1616:Phil Sandifer 1612: 1611: 1610: 1608: 1604: 1600: 1596: 1592: 1587: 1579: 1571: 1568: 1563: 1562: 1561: 1558: 1554: 1553: 1552: 1549: 1545: 1544: 1543: 1540: 1536: 1532: 1528: 1523: 1520: 1514: 1511: 1509: 1501: 1498: 1493: 1489: 1485: 1481: 1477: 1472: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1463: 1460: 1452: 1450: 1449: 1446: 1442: 1438: 1434: 1426: 1406: 1400: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1365: 1362: 1361:Phil Sandifer 1357: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1353: 1352: 1351: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1331: 1328: 1324: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1290: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1270: 1261: 1258: 1254: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1245: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1230: 1227: 1222: 1221: 1220: 1219: 1216: 1213: 1209: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1203: 1197: 1192: 1188: 1186: 1184: 1178: 1177: 1174: 1170: 1159: 1156: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1146: 1141: 1137: 1132: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1121: 1117: 1110: 1107: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1081: 1078: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1068: 1064: 1050: 1047: 1042: 1041: 1040: 1039: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1028: 1025: 1020: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1004: 1001: 997: 996: 995: 994: 993: 992: 987: 984: 981: 980: 979: 978: 969: 964: 960: 952: 951: 950: 949: 946: 943: 942:Phil Sandifer 939: 935: 934: 933: 932: 929: 925: 921: 916: 914: 905: 900: 897: 893: 890: 886: 883: 879: 878: 877: 875: 871: 863: 858: 854: 850: 846: 842: 837: 833: 829: 825: 822: 817: 816: 815: 812: 808: 804: 800: 797: 793: 792: 791: 790: 781: 777: 773: 768: 764: 756: 752: 748: 747: 746: 745: 742: 739: 735: 731: 727: 724: 719: 718: 717: 716: 713: 710: 706: 701: 691: 688: 683: 682: 681: 680: 679: 678: 677: 676: 675: 674: 671: 668: 664: 659: 651: 648: 644: 639: 635: 634: 633: 632: 631: 630: 629: 628: 621: 618: 613: 612: 611: 608: 604: 600: 596: 591: 588: 585: 582: 581: 579: 575: 572: 571: 570: 569: 564: 561: 560:Phil Sandifer 557: 553: 552: 551: 548: 544: 540: 536: 532: 526: 523: 519: 515: 514: 513: 510: 506: 502: 501: 500: 497: 493: 489: 485: 482: 477: 473: 469: 465: 461: 460: 459: 458: 457: 452: 449: 445: 440: 439: 438: 437: 434: 426: 420: 417: 405: 394: 390: 389: 388: 382: 378: 374: 367: 362: 358: 355: 354: 353: 352: 349: 345: 337: 333: 330: 325: 324: 323: 322: 319: 315: 307: 305: 304: 301: 295: 294: 289: 286: 280: 277: 272: 271: 270: 266: 262: 258: 257:71.70.155.234 254: 243: 240: 235: 231: 227: 222: 221: 220: 216: 212: 208: 207:Overstockwiki 204: 192: 190: 186: 182: 178: 177:71.70.155.234 174: 164: 161: 157: 153: 149: 148: 147: 144: 140: 136: 132: 131:Overstockwiki 128: 119: 116: 112: 108: 104: 103:65.116.113.10 100: 88: 86: 85: 82: 77: 76:Overstockwiki 69: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5516:Csp-interest 5512: 5508: 5490: 5473: 5450:edit request 5432: 5411:edit request 5378: 5342: 5319: 5294:source check 5273: 5267: 5262: 5258: 5256: 5217: 5214: 5198: 5197: 5189: 5150: 5149:, which is: 5099: 5094: 5067: 5043:— Preceding 4999: 4971:— Preceding 4966: 4963: 4943: 4928: 4923: 4918: 4895:Figureofnine 4867:— Preceding 4861: 4860:. 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