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outlandish at the time (my initial thinking of this RM was that this is a similar request to asking to change "Roman Empire" to "Roman empire" or "Delhi
Sultanate" to "Delhi sultanate", etc.) and I didn't treat Dicklyon's proposal as very sensical. But after doing a quick google scholar search you're definitely right that this isn't a proper name, mostly because "Berar sultanate" is a historiographical term applied to a region rather than a dynasty or city, in which case it almost certainly would be capitalized. I'll change my !vote to Support.
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953:("k"), etc. but those are all capitalized in their articles, because the prevailing style, both in sources and on Knowledge (XXG), is that they are proper names. I think the reason you found such a result when investigating the common capitalization of Berar Sultanate, and one of the reasons this RM is succeeding, is that there is no ngram for either capitalizations of the name, but for major Sultanates there is,
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also apply simultaneously; that's simply self-contradictory; it is the very fact of near-total RS capitalization that determines that something is capitalized, in the first place. F.N. appears to mean something like "sources that I like capitalize, and I simply ignore those that don't". Nor is "that I know of" any kind of determining factor of any kind on
Knowledge (XXG) (cf. against
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designations that are not proper names, and we capitalize those that are. Lack of consitently capitalization in RS indicates that this is not one (which is often the case with
English-language designations for non-English-speaking places, that consist of a proper name like "Berar" and a descriptive element like "sultanate"), so it would be consistent to lower-case it.
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mean we have to default to non-capitalization. You're looking at a mass-RM for ~100 pages of the "foo
Sultanate" style which is frankly unnecessary and somewhat disruptive, taking into account your past history with capitalization title changes, and would set an ugly precedent which may expand to all
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I see your point. Sorry if I came off as sounding like "it should be capitalized because my favorite sources do it and they're always right!" — that was not the intention; obviously we adhere to what sources say here, but when initially replying, the thought of it not being a proper name seemed very
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for sources of much of the confusion about what "proper name" means, in general and as applied at
Knowledge (XXG) in particular). It is not possible for "every single former country that I know of with Sultanate in the name has the 'S' capitalized" to be true and for "some sources don't or not" to
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Before you come at me telling me all about how "only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in
Knowledge (XXG)", just remember that there are always going to be some sources (not saying those sources are bad or
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a what-sources-say issue, by definition. It is never, ever, for any reason a what-I-prefer-or-imagine-is-the-truth-or-believe-would-be-best-in-my-personal-reality-tunnel question. Finally, the capitalization would not be "consistent with other articles". We lower-case territorial and regime
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per
Padfoot's reasoning. This is a proper noun, and every single former country that I know of with Sultanate in the name has the "S" capitalized, whether some sources don't or not. This is a consistency issue, not entirely a what-sources-say issue.
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I think Berar here is the only uncapitalization for a
Sultanate (or any polity for that matter) you could get away with; Berar, as I said in my comment, is a special case here, and trying to decapitalize something like, for example
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policy) for random editors to invent in their own heads a decision that something "is" a proper noun when reliable sources do not consistently treat it as one (see also
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style. I'm not saying I'm objecting to move this page, I'm just giving you a heads up if you attempt to do a mass-RM of
Sultanate articles or other polities.
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NCCAPS says "For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper name that
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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None of the n-gram graphs show the kind of "consistent capitalization" associated with proper names. Some are
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just wouldn't make sense, as in general capitalization is the common practice, just not with Berar; there are
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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that sources that do capitalize are any better, SMcCandlish) that don't capitalize, but that doesn't
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
1021:. Lowercasing 'sultanate' in the title would be more consistent with how it's usually written.
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consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources
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doesn't apply here as it is a proper noun in this case. Also, "Berar
Sultanate" is
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070629153707/http://www.hostkingdom.net:80/india.html
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going to be some sources that don't capitalize any territorial entity, be it the
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122:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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855:(emphasis in original). It is not possible (per
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