Talk:Brahma Kumaris/Archive 16

564:

discussing whether the group is a cult. Even of the group is a cult, the references don’t suggest that being a cult is central to its functioning or public perception, therefore it certainly doesn’t belong in the lede. 2) It is prejudicial. As the cult article notes, in the English speaking world, the word often carries derogatory connotations. As such it is prejudicial and unencylcopaedic. We should avoid prejudicial terms wherever possible. If we mean that this religion has “socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices” then that is what we should say, which the article already does. However it’s not obvious that is what the references to cult mean because… 3) It is ambiguous. Knowledge (XXG) alone has an article titled Cult and an article titled “Cult (religious practice)” along with a hat-note for no less than four other possible subjects someone searching on the term is likely to be interested in. The article titled “Cult” notes that “a precise definition problematic” and that the word is often prejudicial in the English speaking world (I would add that in my experience outside the Anglo-Saxon English speaking world the word is also often not derogatory). The “Cult (religious practice)” article notes that a cult is essentially the acts of devotion to a god. It is far from obvious what context the references cited were using. Since the term itself is highly ambiguous and the meaning in the context of use in the references is unclear, we shouldn’t include it. Edits on Knowledge (XXG) should aid understanding of a subject. Usage of the word cult here is unlikely to make the status of this group any clearer to most readers. None of these reasons by themselves would be enough, IMO, to exclude the word. However the fact that all three apply makes it a deal breaker. Adding a prejudicial term to an article is something we should always think carefully about. When we have no reliable sources to indicate that the application of that term is widespread or relevant then we probably shouldn’t be including it. When the definition of the term is inherently ambiguous and the usage in the references is not in any way apparent from context, we really don’t have enough information to include it. We would be adding a fringe, prejudicial term when we don’t have any indication what the sources actually meant when they used it.

2674:: I think you are right, to some extent, about the puffery however removing the whole section is overkill. The use of primary sources is fine if the source is reliable for establishing a simple fact, i.e. a factual source that has no opinion on the Brahma Kumaris such as the UN's website, and is not advancing an opinion. You need to explain why you find the other sources "dubious". I suggest removing everything after "It is one of over 1600 accredited observer...". The rest is just simple facts and certainly doesn't fall within the definition of 126:. The author is listing Brahmakumaris in a long list of examples he is giving as examples of "refining movements" of Hinduism. That list also includes many well known groups and branches of Hinduism and it is clear that he does not give the word the same meaning as the statement you are making from it. Also he doesn't use the word after "Brahmakumris", only after "Krishna". He omitted some commas in the list however it is certainly not clear that he labelled the Brahmakumaris a cult in any capacity. 2566: 107:

Samaj are part to it. Shankaracharya, Madhavacharya, Ramanuj, Vittal, Tukarum, Mirabai, Namdev, Ramananda, Trilochana, Tulsidas, Guru Nanakdev, Shirdi Sai, Ramkrishnaparumhansa, Dayanand Saraswati, Vivekanand, Aurbindo are a few revered icons. In one sentence our capacity to adjust and accommodate all streams, offered adequate space to individuals to practice what they believed and at the same time it is also not easy to reconcile contradictions arising out of such bafﬂing involvedness.

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provided. Also, what was their reasoning behind the making of these distinctions? I'm sure you'd agree that if such a claim is to be made in the article, that all of these questions deserve answers in the article. Giving those answers will help to make a more complete section of the article where the text is to be added. If the "official connection" gained was owing directly to the consultative status being achieved, then the wording needs to be rephrased to state that "

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insufficient. Perhaps version with, basically, one paragraph per extant major article subdivision might work. Also, I would definitely not just say that it has been characterized as a cult in the lede, but provide some degree of useful information, perhaps indicating the specific "cult"-like characteristics it has displayed which have motivated others to call it a cult.

2668:: Just because you can't personally find something on a website doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It is also referenced to Frank Whaling. The use of the name, Wattammull Memorial Trust, is giving credit to the Wattammull Memorial Trust, not "stealing" credit. Stealing credit would be if they said they built the whole thing themselves without any help from Wattammull. 353:, it is mentioned that Scientology is often characterised as cult. Brahma kumaris is also often characterised as cult. All the refs I provided are acceptable except the niticentral. I don't know about other articles. As per the policies, we can use word "cult" if reliable sources use it. I think we need to go to the next step i.e 3rd opinion. 980:. The broad consensus from the past discussions was that all the reliable sources mention the year of birth as 1876. But since then, there are a couple of new books (2013 and 2015) that state the birth year as 1884 in passing mentions. Since this article also states the date of birth as 1876, contributors here might want to take a look at 2954: 3655:, longer, I think. It looks like it's either a splinter group, or it's just a website run by someone trying to capitalize on their name. It's not used anywhere on Knowledge (XXG) (nor should it), so it's possibly a candidate (along with the other sites that redirect there) for either the revert list or spam black list. 3472:{{cite web|url=https://esango.un.org/civilsociety/simpleSearch.do?method=search&searchTypeRedef=simpleSearch&sessionCheck=false&searchType=simpleSearch&organizationNamee=brahma+kumaris|access-date=16 July 2019|language=English|title=United Nations Civil Society Participation – General}}</ref: --> 3635:(now blocked), replaced the BK website URLs several times. After they were blocked, IP users began doing the same thing. Not quite sure why, unless it's just self-promotion of a site, but I'm changing them back until the miscreants say something. It looks like this has been going on for a year or more... — 3453:

I found was published by the BK themselves but hosted on a UN website. At the end of the document it lists all the associations with the UN. Although a self-published source, do you agree that it is reasonable to assume that the UN would not have allowed its publication on their own website if it was

2455:

I have found other secondary references for the existence of Global Hospital and association with the United Nations and will post the changes here in the required format for an edit request in the next few days. In the meantime, please explain the problem with restoring the logo. I'm not sure how to

3142:

Just to recap, the original text from the Walliss reference (p41) is, "In the 1980s it became affiliated to the Department of Public Information of the United Nations (1980) and gained consultitive status with the UN Economic and Social Council (1983) and UNICEF (1988)". From the secondary source we

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are expected to change the article from its present state based on original research and BK publications to an article containing verifiable information based on reliable third party sources. After a suitable grace period, the state of the article can then be evaluated on the motion of any member of

1401:

The article still refers to the name "BKWSU" without any explanation and needs to be changed the "Brahma Kumaris" throughout for consistency. I suggest one sentence explaining the different names. Unfortunately I was unable to find a reliable reference that explains that the organisation is known as

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Oppose. I agree largely with John Carter's comments below. If any mention of "cult" is to be made it needs to be directly attributed to the people making the claims. (Also, it needs to be a significant viewpoint in order to mention it at all...nearly every religion has at least somebody calling it a

3405:

Thank you for that clarification. The claims regarding the UN that Walliss makes have not been confirmed by any sources originating from the UN. As Walliss does not footnote the claims in their publication, it seems to be only their word to take for this. I find it hard to believe that the UN would

1367:

Thanks Prodigyhk. Sorry I only just discovered this response. Since this is the only opinion with any explanation with it I will take it as contributing to a consensus, whereas the previous "I don't think it has" comment from Joseph2302 is only a vote. I will wait a week for any other comments then

1036:

This information is useful to the reader but may not be reliable because some organisations tend to exaggerate their numbers. However, there isn't really any other source for this type of information so it is presented in a qualified way, "...BKWSU website reported...". This alerts the reader, in a

998:

Long story short: The actual birth year is more likely to be 1884 than 1876 but as far as I know there are no RS to say so yet. If any such sources are published then I would be happy to go with the new date. The Prophecy in the New Millennium just states the birth/death date in passing as you say.

945:

Under the circumstances, I think it might be best to withdraw the current, clearly flawed, RfC and maybe a bit later start a new one with more clearly defined options. For myself, I might first start by creating a draft of a more fully fleshed out lead, because the existing two paragraph lede seems

644:

There are reliable sources which say Brahma Kumaris is a cult. Based on a third opinion, it was removed that "Brahma kumaris is considered as cult". Please write your opinion in "Support" section if you want to re-add it (with suggested re-wordings) or write it in "Oppose" section if you don't want

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None of the references are making the central point that the organisation is a cult. They are merely using the word in a sentence. They are also not neutral authorities on the subject to make such a declaration even if they actually did. Any old Joe can write a book and get it published. They don't

3506:

Thank you for carrying out this search, it's most appreciated. I think the two documents you provided are perfectly acceptable for the revised claim. I'm sorry but in all the back and forth I've forgotten where it was that you wanted this claim placed, if you could remind me, i'll place it in the

3269:

The full name of the Brahma Kumaris, in the UK where Walliss did his research, is the "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University". This used to be the article title. The article name was abbreviated because there are variations to the name internationally with the only commonality being the words

2803:

The first proposed sentence does not take into account the 4th person instrumental in opening the hospital, Ashok Mehta. The second sentence can be sufficiently paraphrased by simply elaborating upon what is meant by the terms "became affiliated with" and "gaining consultative status", as not all

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so don't take it as in any way authoritative unless reliable sources back it up, I notice that "Dada Lekhraj" is used in the context of the organisation's early history and and "Brahma Baba" is how he is known in the context of the fully-established organisation. Certainly that is how he is known

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Consequently a plethora of 33,000.000 Gods, cults and sects have emerged adding to the intricacy and simplicity at the same time. Cults like Shakti cult Krishna cult Brahmakumaris, Bhakti cult, Aiyyapa cult besides sects like Shaivism, Vaishnavism Vira Shaivism, Trika Shaivism, Brahma Samaj, Arya

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2. "consultative status" and "affiliated with" would be legally defined by the UN to describe a particular type of association an organisation can have with them. These phrases are also in common use in any literature about the UN or organisations associated with the UN. I believe that trying to

3101:

is not very specific. In what year were they made? Who was it who laid out these distinctions? Which part of the UN did these people who made these distinctions belong to? You've mentioned that they belonged to the Department of Public Information, but a WikiLink to that department has not been

885:

I would definitely not use phrasing which says in wikipedia's voice that the BK's are a cult. It would be useful to know exactly where the proposed addition is being considered. Also, while I would not necessarily object to seeing phrasing along the lines of "The BKs have been counted as a cult

1040:

It is also useful to know about Sakar and Avyakt murlis and what the difference is. In this case not only was the source primary but the link was also dead (the website has no content). A more constructive approach in this instance would be to find a reliable secondary source to illustrate the

2746:

1. New proposed text for the Activities section including contributions of other two individuals. Unfortunately I was only able to use the primary source for this. Can we take it that this attribution of the Watumall brothers is considered non-controversial enough to rely on a primary source?

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1) It’s giving undue weight to the concept. Neither of the sources provided area actually ‘’about’’ this group being a cult. They only mention the fact in an offhand fashion in the middle of other sentences. This is in stark contrast to groups such as Scientology, where there are entire books

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Yes, we can take a 3rd opinion. I found two more sources which say bk is a cult. http://www.examiner.com/article/cult-victims-exploited-speak-out-today-about-abuses-and-fear http://www.telegraph.com/culture/books/bookreviews/10862459/The-House-Is-Full-of-Yogis-by-Will-Hodgkinson-review.html

1397:

Recently the article name changed from Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University to just Brahma Kumaris since this is how it is most often referred to in references, the fact that the full name varies in different countries and that a shorter name is easier for the reader to deal with.

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to convert the article from its present state based on original research and BK publications to an article containing verifiable information based on reliable third party sources. I believe that is the last obstacle remaining in the way of implementing this claim. Regards,

3233:

The Walliss source doesn't state that the Brahma Kumaris became affiliated, rather, it states that the "University" became affiliated. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between the "Brahma Kumaris" and "the University", as those terms are used by Walliss. Regards,

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from the "Department of Economic and Social Affairs" website. Unfortunately this doesn't directly relate to the exact dates and claims from Walliss, but it does show that the BK has at least some association with the UN and isn't making it all up. I also found

3676:, agreed; that's an appropriate way to deal with it. Folks who add crap to pages for personal gain are really annoying to me, especially when they come back when they think you're not looking. Let's keep an eye on it over the next few weeks/months. Thanks! — 3034:. The only remaining concern now, as I understand it, is the use of the word "affiliated" which means something like "officially connected with", although "affiliated" is the word most often used in Knowledge (XXG) articles concerning the UN, such as 3459:

I will keep searching for more direct links to the 1980s links to the UN unless we can use any of the above to either support Walliss's claim or rewrite the claim to use only the claim supported by the Department of Economic and Social Affairs

1803:

The article refers to the founder and various members of the Brahma Kumaris by their full original names. However they are not known these names now. The founder and some other members assumed new names in the early days of the organisation.

2684:

I don't see why anyone would be confused be a logo. If you look at both the Indian and International websites you will see the same logo the only difference is that one is grey and the other is red. That's not going to cause "confusion" to

2142:

See above discussion, Recent Section and logo deletions. The IP editor who made the edits in May did not respond. I request that the edits described in points 1, 2 and 3 in the above section to be reverted. For point 4, I request that the

855:

Yes, I followed the link to the Google Book. It doesn't seem to be a book about religion, cults, or Brahma Kumaris, and it only seems to mention BK once in passing. I don't think that book is a good source for what you're trying to say.

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In 1991 the Brahama Kumaris, Dr Ashok Mehta and the brothers, Gulab and Khubchand Watumull, opened the J Watumull Global Hospital in Rajesthan which offers medical facilities to the local population.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive":

999:

If it was the only reference that ever existed for this fact I would say it was fine but since it contradicts all previous RS then I guess some justification for the revised date is required to demonstrate that it isn't a misprint.

1860:"Lekhraj Kripalani" just becomes "Dada Lekhraj Kripalani". The name "Brahma Baba" is only mentioned once in this and his own article since most references in the articles are about his role in the establishment of the organisation. 2783:

In the 1980s the Brahma Kumaris became affiliated to the Department of Public Information of the United Nations and gained consultative status with the UN Economic and Social Council and UNICEF.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive" /:

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2072:

If your intent is to change it for the better, then it's best to allow the article to reach a disheveled state in order for intervention by the Committee to become inevitable. This is more or less the same strategy recommended by

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In the 1980s the Brahma Kumaris formed an official connection with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations and gained ] with the UN Economic and Social ::Council and UNICEF.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive" /:

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Oppose based on my comments below, objecting both to the lack of information regarding specifically where the material is to be added and the problem of such a simple declarative statement being rather specifically contrary to

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In 1991 the Brahama Kumaris and the brothers, Gulab and Khubchand Watumull, opened the J Watumull Global Hospital in Rajesthan which offers medical facilities to the local population.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive":

1245:

I will allow one week for further comments otherwise I will assume that there are no further objections and the attributed use of a primary source in this instance is acceptable and restore the original text. Regards

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originate from the UN just to be sure. That would go a long way towards answering the questions I raised earlier about who in the UN made these distinctions and why, as well as fulfilling the principals set forth in

1181:"he group claims a worldwide membership of more than 8.2 million adherents involved in evangelism, convention attendance figures of more than 15 million, and an annual Memorial attendance of more than 19.9 million.". 3010:

In the 1980s the Brahma Kumaris became affiliated to the Department of Public Information of the United Nations and gained ] with the UN Economic and Social ::Council and UNICEF.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive" /:

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The second proposal was declined because the text was insufficiently paraphrased from the source material. Text suggested to be added to an article ought to be placed using an editors own words and phrasings, per

886:

by..." or "The BKs have been argued to be a cult based on ," even for such attributed discussion of the cult claim, it would be useful to know exactly where in the text the proposed material is being considered.

560:

This is a bit of a tricky one. We do have good references stating that this practice is a cult, so technically it can be added to the article. However I don’t believe that it should be for the following reasons:

730:

http://www.examiner.com/article/cult-victims-exploited-speak-out-today-about-abuses-and-fear http://www.telegraph.com/culture/books/bookreviews/10862459/The-House-Is-Full-of-Yogis-by-Will-Hodgkinson-review.html

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elaborate or define these terms here would misrepresent and obfuscate the legal association being described and is beyond the scope of this article. If you are still not in agreement then I suggest we invite a

263:

Of the two new sources, one of them is from an anti-cult source, David Love "Cult Examiner" who tend to call anything a cult. The other is probably used in a light-hearted way. In fact Will Hodgkinson has even

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neutral way, to the fact that the source is primary and they can make of that what they will. Simply removing the statement doesn't really improve the article. I would be grateful if you could put it back.

810:

cult.) Also, the examiner.com link above is not a good source...it seems to be somebody with a self-hosted website writing in to a program and calling BK a cult. The telegraph.com link didn't work for me.

2182:

It is not known what changes are requested to be made. If deleted text is desired to be added, kindly include a verbatim description of the text along with references in the form of "Change x to y using

1452: 3097:

is moot. Changing the claim to "official connection" doesn't solve the problem. These claims needs to be assiduously defined in order to prevent misinterpretation. When exactly were these claims made?

3478:

Unfortunately the URL is a database search rather than the actual result of the search. I wasn't able to get a shareable link of the entry itself that I could use for Knowledge (XXG) or archive.org.

2640:

In the 1980s it became affiliated to the Department of Public Information of the United Nations (1980) and gained consultative status with the UN Economic Social Council (1983) and UNICEF (1988).

1062:

Hi Bksimonb, we cannot know how many centres are there in the world unless there is a reliable source. We should not add things which are unreliability sourced. I've added the murali text back.

2093: 1092:, 9788120829558, page 41: "...according to the University there are currently around 450,000 members attending 4,000 centres in 77 countries managed directly From the Mt. Abu. Headquarters". 2401:

Change text in lead, "The sect teaches to transcend labels associated with the body", to, "The organisation teaches to transcend labels associated with the body", or similar to comply with

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the Arbitration Committee and further remedies applied to those editors who continue to edit in an inappropriate manner. Any user may request review by members of the Arbitration Committee.

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That statement clearly says Brahma kumaris is a cult. The context doesn't really matter. We can use the word 'cult' when reliable sources use it. I've reworded it and added another source.

2865:{{cite book | last = Walliss | first = John | title = The Brahma Kumaris as a 'reflexive Tradition' | year = 2007 | publisher = Motilal Banarsidass | isbn = 9788120829558 }}</ref: --> 2755:{{cite book | last = Walliss | first = John | title = The Brahma Kumaris as a 'reflexive Tradition' | year = 2007 | publisher = Motilal Banarsidass | isbn = 9788120829558 }}</ref: --> 2515:{{cite book | last = Walliss | first = John | title = The Brahma Kumaris as a 'reflexive Tradition' | year = 2007 | publisher = Motilal Banarsidass | isbn = 9788120829558 }}</ref: --> 1582: 2576:

The first proposal was declined because it does not sufficiently state the contributions of the other two individuals who were instrumental in the "opening" of the mentioned hospital.

1421: 1353:] of this page, multiple editors have been working on this page. It would be difficult to assert that all the top editors are working in together. Recommend removal of the COI tag. 3270:"Brahma Kumaris". Also "Brahma Kumaris" is the common name referred to by most of the sources listed at the end of the article and by the Brahma Kumaris itself on its own website. 516:

restrictions, and this was any other article, I would have just reverted the offending text with an edit comment since it is quite basic. I will request a third opinion. Regards

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The RfC expired without any comments from other editors. I am now requesting the tag is removed via a COI edit request if a reviewer is satisfied that the article is now OK.

3616: 213:

The other reference you used is not suitable either, at the bottom of the article it clearly states, "Editor's Note: Offstumped Report is a Digital Persona for aggregating

3043: 3039: 2658:, some of the edits you made recently were helpful such as removing references to the "University" to make the article consistent with the new title, just Brahma Kumaris. 3143:

can see three events with dates given. I suggest we drop my "official connection" suggestion to describe "affiliation" since it seems to be opening another can of worms.

99:

I just checked the reference you used for that statement. I doesn't seem to support it. I only found one mention of "Brahamkumaris" in the book and this is the context.

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Has the article improved to the point where the "conflict of interest" tag dated August 2014 may now be removed? If not, what else is required to clean up the article?

1808: 1453:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080412150647/http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=shankar%2Fshankar227.txt&writer=shankar

3324:

When Walliss refers to the "University" it is an abbreviation of the same. The first time he introduces the abbreviation in his book is on page x of the Introduction:

3465:

If you prefer the option to limit the claim to only the one supported by the UN website instead of supporting Walliss's statement, then I propose the following edit:

2960:

If the terms "consultative status" and "affiliated with" are in as common a use as earlier described, the COI editor is invited to add the WikiLinks for these exact

2026:

When it gets to the point where you have users called BK this or BK that and "Shiv Baba Service" (Shiv Baba is the name of the BKs' god) it really has gone too far.

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not have any documents verifying this. Because the claim involves the UN, and because the claim is one of "affiliation" with the UN, the provided sources should

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In India, the word "cult" is freely used without any negative connotation. This is the English Language encyclopaedia and the intended audience will certainly

1152:

The source would not be reliable for a statement like, "There are currently 450, 000 members attenting 4,000 centres..." etc. It is reliably sourced to say, "

2514:

In 1991 the Brahama Kumaris opened Global Hospital in Rajesthan which offers medical facilities to the local population.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive": -->

2541:. The same book is currently referenced in one other place in the article () but I can merge that reference myself as a non-controversial edit if you like. 103:

Ramayana, and the numerous religious texts with continuous refining movements over many centuries attempted to perfect Hinduism as an equalitarian religion.

3483:

Let me know which of the UN hosted sources, if any, I have found so far have any mileage. I can then perhaps make an edit proposal that incorporates them.

119:

expression. You have only found one source and that source does not say that the Brahmakumaris are "characterised" as a cult, nor that this happens often.

3200:

In 1980 the Brahma Kumaris became affiliated to the ] of the ] and gained ] with the ] in 1983 and with ] in 1988.<ref name="Walliss-reflexive" /: -->

2867:{{cite web |title=J Watumull Global Hospital & Research Centre - About Us |url=http://www.ghrc-abu.com/home |website=www.ghrc-abu.com}}</ref: --> 2773:

apply here. There really aren't that many options I can see to present the facts concisly unless you have any other suggestion. I am happy to request a

2757:{{cite web |title=J Watumull Global Hospital & Research Centre - About Us |url=http://www.ghrc-abu.com/home |website=www.ghrc-abu.com}}</ref: --> 1583:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data%2Fsubcontinent%2F2007%2FJune%2Fsubcontinent_June1110.xml&section=subcontinent&col=

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I was going to request a 3rd opinion but since you brought up two new references I thought it would be best to respond and hear your response first.

3160:

The secondary sources I've seen, such as Walliss, describing the Brahma Kumaris' relation to the UN tend to be a bit dated and terse on the matter.

1895:

The Knowledge (XXG) Manual of Style says to use surnames after the initial mention unless a full name is needed due to same/similar surnames. See

1831: 1022:

There are some cases where the use of a primary source is useful and appropriate. Some of the text you removed in is actually useful to a reader.

428:

In the case of Scientology there are multiple reliable sources that describe how the subject is characterised as a cult. That is not the case here.

3022:

I don't fully understand why the bar for inclusion has been raised as high as it has for this sentence. I don't see how the sentence presents any

1933:

An impartial editor has reviewed the proposed edit(s) and asked the editor with a conflict of interest to go ahead and make the suggested changes.

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to re-add it. There is also a discussion section. Result of the RFC will be based on strength of the arguments not on the number of votes. Thanks

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difference. Or at least remove the dead link and signal that a citation is required, since the text isn't, as far as I am aware, controversial.

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I can find a Wikilink for "consultative status". However I can't "alleviated with" defined anywhere. So the best proposal I can come up with is

2804:

readers may be familiar with United Nations' Council and Public Information Office terminology as it's applied here in this context. Regards,

1835: 3745: 1406:, "It is important to give a broad overview of the movement that is known internationally as ‘Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University'". 217:

by Niti Central Staff" (emphasis mine). It is "opinionated" and "commentary". Certainly not a reliable source for the claim you are making.

2933:

The information concerning the J Watumull Global Hospital was added. These added claims were identified in the text as pertaining to the

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if this is still an issue. I am repeating the proposed edit below for readability since the previous request has already been closed.

1085:

One secondary source we could use is Wallis, "The Brahma Kumaris as a 'reflexive Tradition': Responding to Late Modernity", Jan 2007,

3755: 3750: 1870:"Hirdaya Mohini" becomes "Dadi Hirdaya Mohini (Dadi Gulzar)" on first mention and then "Dadi Gulzar" thereafter on the same grounds. 1708:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

1598:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

1173:

Please look at other NRM articles where the number of centres/members is quoted, an attributed, to the organisation itself such as,

3177:

Here is a proposal containing WikiLinks and dates for all UN and departments involved. Is this any closer to what we are aiming at?

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Unfortunately, a claim of being "affiliated with" is a term that is open to wide interpretation. The Brahma Kumaris article is

3046:. These articles all use the word without any WikiLink or expansion of the phrase. Perhaps we can agree on the following text? 301:(no mention). Notice the quality of references used. Also notice that the articles are not saying, "XYZ is considered a cult". 2710: 2425: 1089: 72: 67: 59: 2691:

It is correct to remove the word "University" to be consistent with the new article title however "sect" is a word to avoid

1457:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=shankar%2Fshankar227.txt&writer=shankar

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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In chapters three and four, I focus on the emergence and historical development of both the University and its theodicy".

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If you disagree with this practice on this article then the same principal would surely apply on the other articles too.

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I know this topic has been discussed to death in the past, but recently, a few IP addresses have brought it up again at

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I fully support you removing the stuff about the UN. It is unsourced and looks promotional. Thank you for spotting it.

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In the 1980s the Brahma Kumaris formed an official connection with the UN Economic and Social Council and UNICEF

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There is some very serious bias in the references, many of whom are Brahma Kumari followers or close associates.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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If a reference "uses" a word that is non-neutral then it needs to be reworded into something that complies with

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It should be in the lead. "The BKs have been counted as a cult by several sources" is good. What do you think?

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https://web.archive.org/web/20111128221137/http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/spirit-centers/bramha-kumari.asp

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but leave out the last paragraph starting: "It is one of over 1600 accredited observer organizations to the

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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from the UN that confirms General Consultative status with ECOSOC and Department of Public Information.

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The citations accompanying the omitted claims do not verify them. The description of sect was omitted.

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I will wait one week for comment. If no input or consensus is reached in that time then I will fire an

1689:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 1573:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 1443:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 2661:

However, there are some large deletions just seem a bit over the top with questionable reasons given.

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without the prefix "Dadi" or "Rajyogini" or similar and is more universally known by her assumed name

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BrahmaKumaris is not a cult. It is a spiritual organization that is known to be doing excellent work.

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It is a secondary source but the information is still from the primary source which is unreliable.

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To say that it is "considered" or "characterised" as a cult without attribution is a clear case of

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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding Brahma Kumaris

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130928035718/http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/ref/collection/etd/id/2939

1639: 1523: 760:, this is not a reliable source but it will show you how Brahma Kumaris is seen by the public. 1123: 1086: 981: 928: 906: 838: 765: 739: 699: 650: 615: 358: 246: 171: 2074: 1983: 1974: 1337:

I would be grateful if you could point to any specific issue that could be addressed. Thanks

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section as originally requested, along with UN documentation verifying the claims. Regards,

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This article has been whitewashed by the religion's followers and needs to be rebalanced.

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Cults like Shakti cult Krishna cult Brahmakumaris, Bhakti cult, Aiyyapa cult besides......

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the BKWSU in most places, BKIVV in India and BKWSO in the US. The best I could find was

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meet the requirement, "widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject", as per

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matter if you are using a reference to prove a controversial point that the author was

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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Hi Sudiop. I will see if I can find a secondary source. All the other edits look fine.

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Kindly open a new edit request at your earliest convenience when ready to proceed.

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Perhaps the article should mention the full name somewhere but a recent IP editor

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however I find that since it is one sentence stating simple facts, I beleive that

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Getting lists of NGOs is indeed a challenge. So far I managed to come up with a

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

545: 293:"...attracted substantial adverse publicity when it was thought to be a cult", 1721:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1611:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1495:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 716:

List the sources for review to determine if meets the criteria for inclusion.

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Proposal to adjust article content content to new article title (BKWSU -: -->

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I am closing this RFC. Thanks to all those who have participated in this RFC

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Thank you for a detailed and well-thought-through response. Much appreciated

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there are currently around 450,000 members...". Do you see the distinction?

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The requested change is ostensibly one which the COI editor is able to

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the same word in a negative way in the main English-speaking countries.

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Please see how the word "cult" is used in other NRM article such as

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the Brahma Kumaris to talk about his book. So it couldn't have been

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The Walliss reference for the above two proposed edits can be read

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http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/spirit-centers/bramha-kumari.asp

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Lekhraj Kripalani is not usually referred to in sources as just "

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making false claims regarding the BKs relationships with the UN?

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Hospital and UN items to be placed at start of Activites section

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the BKWSU website reported over 8,500 centres in 110 countries.

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by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

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by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

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I would like some other views on this since I have a declared

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most often used in Knowledge (XXG) articles concerning the UN

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about the UN, so claims that the "affiliated" term is a word

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remove the tag if consensus remains for that action. Regards

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Or Brahma Kumaris is characterised as a cult by many sources

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making. If you have a problem with this then we can invite a

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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In 1998 the Brahma Kumaris gained ] with the ] <ref: -->

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Well, there are many reliable sources saying the opposite.

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Please note the following from the Arbitration Committee:

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2. Proposed text and reference to replace this deletion

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1. Proposed text and reference to replace this deletion

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that could be seen as predisposing me towards promoting

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be used instead of original full names or just surnames?

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Context. You appear to be using the word, "cult" in the

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

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1. Here is the new text including the fourth person.

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http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/ref/collection/etd/id/2939

1725:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1615:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1499:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3715:recent insertion of another personal site. Thanks 3044:List of specialized agencies of the United Nations 3040:List of specialized agencies of the United Nations 2136:was declined. The request was not specific enough. 2062:As the article is on probation, the principals in 2835:Part of an edit requested by an editor with a 2761:2. I take on baord the the concerns regarding 1711:This message was posted before February 2018. 1601:This message was posted before February 2018. 1485:This message was posted before February 2018. 3577:, "article probation", is hereby terminated. 399:for the article. Using a reference to bypass 8: 1270:RfC: Is the article COI tag still necessary? 2393:..." since this bit seems to be promotional 3564:The Arbitration Committee has resolved by 2411: 2187: 1681:I have just modified one external link on 1435:I have just modified one external link on 3026:risk to Knowledge (XXG) since it is only 2391:UN Framework Convention on Climate Change 1565:I have just modified 2 external links on 2217:to be removed from the article (if any) 403:is not an acceptable use of a reference. 2638:. Motilal Banarsidass Publishe. p. 41. 2608: 3415:whereby an expectation was set by the 3103: 3098: 3094: 2946: 2147:word, sect, is replaced as suggested. 1822:From my personal experience, which is 1101:Of course, it's a bit out of date now. 115:The phrase "often characterised" is a 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3761:Partially implemented requested edits 1474:to let others know (documentation at 88:"It is also often characterised as a 7: 3627:Spammers promoting their website(s)? 2373:Restore blanked sections and logo v2 2297:The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles. 2235:to be added to the article (if any) 1947:the official Indian website. Thanks 635:The following discussion is closed. 215:Opinionated Center Right Commentary 111:There are a number of issues here, 2919:Edit request partially implemented 2651:Recent Section and image deletions 2096:report on The Cosmic Dung Beetle. 833:Did you see the google books ref? 24: 3532:I've placed this claim under the 2408:Thanks 07:04, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 2377:Please make the following edits, 2114:Restore blanked sections and logo 1856:I propose the following changes. 1830:Probably more easy to resolve is 1685:. Please take a moment to review 1569:. Please take a moment to review 1439:. Please take a moment to review 1409:I will wait a week for comments. 3523: 2986:Thanks for actioning first edit. 2952: 2925: 2913: 2828: 2729: 2564: 2484: 2170: 2121: 1967: 1926: 1277: 1025:Let's start with the statement: 963:The discussion above is closed. 544: 29: 3582:For the Arbitration Committee, 2274:The Sun's diameter is 25 miles. 1581:Corrected formatting/usage for 1865:WP:Article_titles#Common_names 1815:". He also assumed then name " 1225:15:06, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 1136:10:59, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 1114:17:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC) 1072:16:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC) 1057:07:25, 21 September 2015 (UTC) 603:RFC for adding the word "Cult" 595:07:06, 28 September 2015 (UTC) 574:06:09, 28 September 2015 (UTC) 526:05:10, 28 September 2015 (UTC) 371:18:12, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 345:16:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 259:15:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 236:14:46, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 184:13:38, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 154:12:57, 25 September 2015 (UTC) 1: 3557:Arbitration motion regarding 2456:proceed with that otherwise. 2106:18:37, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 2088:08:57, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 2045:17:23, 15 January 2019 (UTC) 2022:This article needs a COI tag 2016:18:35, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 2001:08:57, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 1957:06:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 1842:known by her original name. 1779:17:25, 15 January 2018 (UTC) 1553:06:20, 7 November 2016 (UTC) 1423:05:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC) 1378:08:00, 26 October 2015 (UTC) 1256:07:52, 26 October 2015 (UTC) 1009:13:35, 21 October 2015 (UTC) 993:15:39, 20 October 2015 (UTC) 982:Talk:Dada Lekhraj#Birth_year 3746:Implemented requested edits 2525:in the Activities section: 2508:in the Activities section: 2320:Harinath, Paramjit (2019). 1363:18:00, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 1154:According to the University 956:19:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 941:18:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 919:18:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 896:16:22, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 871:20:51, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 851:19:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 825:18:55, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 803:18:43, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 778:18:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 752:18:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 726:18:02, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 712:17:58, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 688:17:34, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 663:16:00, 3 October 2015 (UTC) 628:07:32, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 3777: 1742:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1678:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1632:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1562:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1516:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1432:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1347:14:57, 3 August 2015 (UTC) 1333:15:48, 2 August 2015 (UTC) 1304:07:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC) 3725:12:55, 23 July 2020 (UTC) 3707:22:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC) 3688:22:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC) 3669:21:37, 21 July 2020 (UTC) 3647:20:19, 21 July 2020 (UTC) 3609:18:33, 17 July 2020 (UTC) 3547:03:21, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 3518:23:12, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 3498:15:34, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 3431:12:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 3390:11:04, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 3245:01:18, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 3229:14:54, 15 July 2019 (UTC) 3126:14:44, 14 July 2019 (UTC) 3085:13:59, 14 July 2019 (UTC) 2979:13:10, 14 July 2019 (UTC) 2815:16:21, 30 June 2019 (UTC) 2798:12:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC) 2599:20:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC) 2554:08:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC) 2469:08:45, 21 June 2019 (UTC) 2447:09:23, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 2430:07:04, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 2365:05:56, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 2160:17:23, 19 June 2019 (UTC) 1943:edit. That is definitely 1913:16:42, 30 July 2018 (UTC) 1890:08:36, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 1827:within the organisation. 1669:13:36, 24 July 2017 (UTC) 3756:Declined requested edits 3751:Answered requested edits 3377:Hope that helps clarify. 2900:07:26, 4 July 2019 (UTC) 2715:05:11, 30 May 2019 (UTC) 2092:FYI, there is a pending 1319:10:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC) 965:Please do not modify it. 637:Please do not modify it. 2945:in the edit request as 2941:, a location which was 2326:. Academic Press. p. 1. 1838:. Dadi Janki is almost 1674:External links modified 1558:External links modified 1428:External links modified 1351:as per wiki statistics 2964:to their edit request. 2943:incorrectly identified 2839:has been implemented. 2634:Walliss, John (2007). 2341: 2069: 2053:The Cosmic Dung Beetle 2037:The Cosmic Dung Beetle 1847:referred to in sources 1845:Hirdaya Mohini is not 1323:I don't think it has. 1015:Use of primary sources 758:list of cults in india 109: 3711:Please also consider 3417:Arbitration Committee 3299:any remaining traces. 3036:United Nations System 2866:{{rp|41}}<ref: --> 2756:{{rp|41}}<ref: --> 2570:Edit request declined 2262:Example edit request: 2258: 2253:the requested change 2192:Change x to y using z 2060: 552:third opinion request 101: 42:of past discussions. 3195:===United Nations=== 3056:===United Nations=== 3005:===United Nations=== 2837:conflict of interest 2780:===United Nations=== 2528:===United Nations=== 2497:conflict of interest 2495:by an editor with a 2313:using as a reference 2134:conflict of interest 2132:by an editor with a 1973:Editor is able, per 1723:regular verification 1613:regular verification 1497:regular verification 3111:consultative status 2231:description of the 2213:description of the 2200: 1713:After February 2018 1603:After February 2018 1487:After February 2018 1466:parameter below to 1179:Jehovah's Witnesses 512:If I was not under 18:Talk:Brahma Kumaris 3024:WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE 2763:WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE 2582:WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE 2199: 1767:InternetArchiveBot 1718:InternetArchiveBot 1657:InternetArchiveBot 1608:InternetArchiveBot 1541:InternetArchiveBot 1492:InternetArchiveBot 1175:The Salvation Army 638: 124:pejorative meaning 3633:Shiv Baba Service 3614:Discuss this at: 3591: 3507:article. Thanks! 2908:Reply 14-JUL-2019 2843: 2842: 2744: 2743: 2701:comment added by 2559:Reply 26-JUN-2019 2503: 2502: 2432: 2416:comment added by 2396:Revert this edit 2386:Revert this edit 2381:Revert this edit 2345: 2344: 2338: 2308: 2285: 2257: 2256: 2165:Reply 20-JUN-2019 2140: 2139: 1984:make on their own 1937: 1936: 1824:original research 1743: 1633: 1517: 1292: 1291: 1132: 1126: 937: 931: 915: 909: 868: 847: 841: 822: 774: 768: 748: 742: 708: 702: 659: 653: 636: 624: 618: 580: 579: 367: 361: 255: 249: 180: 174: 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3768: 3660: 3589: 3545: 3543: 3531: 3527: 3526: 3516: 3514: 3451:Another document 3429: 3427: 3243: 3241: 3124: 3122: 2977: 2975: 2959: 2956: 2955: 2932: 2929: 2928: 2921: 2917: 2858:===Healthcare=== 2832: 2825: 2813: 2811: 2750:===Healthcare=== 2733: 2732: 2726: 2717: 2643: 2642: 2631: 2625: 2624: 2621:www.ghrc-abu.com 2613: 2597: 2595: 2572: 2568: 2511:===Healthcare=== 2488: 2481: 2445: 2443: 2363: 2361: 2337: 2336: 2332: 2327: 2324: 2307: 2306: 2302: 2284: 2283: 2279: 2201: 2188: 2178: 2176:Unable to review 2174: 2125: 2118: 2085: 2083: 2056: 1998: 1996: 1978: 1971: 1962:Reply 6-FEB-2019 1930: 1923: 1904: 1777: 1768: 1741: 1740: 1719: 1667: 1658: 1631: 1630: 1609: 1551: 1542: 1515: 1514: 1493: 1481: 1281: 1280: 1274: 1130: 1124: 935: 929: 913: 907: 869: 862: 845: 839: 823: 816: 772: 766: 746: 740: 706: 700: 657: 651: 622: 616: 548: 541: 540: 365: 359: 253: 247: 178: 172: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3776: 3775: 3771: 3770: 3769: 3767: 3766: 3765: 3736: 3735: 3658: 3629: 3580: 3579: 3562: 3539: 3537: 3524: 3522: 3510: 3508: 3473: 3423: 3421: 3237: 3235: 3202: 3196: 3118: 3116: 3064: 3057: 3013: 3006: 2971: 2969: 2957: 2953: 2935:Sirohi district 2930: 2926: 2912: 2910: 2868: 2859: 2823: 2807: 2805: 2786: 2781: 2758: 2751: 2730: 2724: 2696: 2653: 2648: 2647: 2646: 2633: 2632: 2628: 2615: 2614: 2610: 2591: 2589: 2563: 2561: 2534: 2529: 2517: 2512: 2479: 2439: 2437: 2375: 2357: 2355: 2346: 2340: 2334: 2333: 2322: 2319: 2310: 2304: 2303: 2287: 2281: 2280: 2263: 2193: 2169: 2167: 2116: 2081: 2079: 2050: 2024: 1994: 1992: 1966: 1964: 1921: 1902: 1832:Janki Kripilani 1790: 1771: 1766: 1734: 1727:have permission 1717: 1691:this simple FaQ 1676: 1661: 1656: 1624: 1617:have permission 1607: 1575:this simple FaQ 1560: 1545: 1540: 1508: 1501:have permission 1491: 1475: 1445:this simple FaQ 1430: 1395: 1393:Brahma Kumaris) 1278: 1272: 1017: 974: 969: 968: 883: 857: 811: 675: 670: 641: 632: 631: 630: 605: 299:Sathya Sai Baba 94: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3774: 3772: 3764: 3763: 3758: 3753: 3748: 3738: 3737: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3628: 3625: 3623: 3621: 3620: 3571: 3570: 3561: 3559:Brahma Kumaris 3555: 3554: 3553: 3552: 3551: 3550: 3549: 3501: 3500: 3485: 3484: 3480: 3479: 3475: 3474: 3470: 3467: 3466: 3462: 3461: 3456: 3455: 3447: 3446: 3438:database entry 3403: 3402: 3401: 3400: 3399: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3395: 3394: 3393: 3392: 3378: 3364: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3350: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3332: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3311: 3310: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3302: 3301: 3300: 3282: 3281: 3280: 3279: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3256: 3255: 3254: 3253: 3252: 3251: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3247: 3210: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3199: 3197: 3194: 3185: 3184: 3183: 3182: 3181: 3180: 3179: 3178: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3164: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3151: 3150: 3149: 3148: 3147: 3146: 3145: 3144: 3133: 3132: 3131: 3130: 3129: 3128: 3074: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3065: 3060: 3058: 3055: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3017: 3016: 3015: 3014: 3009: 3007: 3004: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2966: 2965: 2950: 2909: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2903: 2902: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2862: 2860: 2857: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2841: 2840: 2833: 2822: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2782: 2779: 2760: 2752: 2749: 2742: 2741: 2734: 2723: 2720: 2719: 2718: 2686: 2679: 2669: 2652: 2649: 2645: 2644: 2626: 2607: 2606: 2602: 2586: 2585: 2577: 2560: 2557: 2536: 2530: 2527: 2519: 2513: 2510: 2501: 2500: 2489: 2478: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2457: 2450: 2449: 2406: 2405: 2399: 2394: 2384: 2374: 2371: 2369: 2352: 2351: 2350: 2343: 2342: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2300: 2299: 2298: 2293: 2277: 2276: 2275: 2261: 2255: 2254: 2243: 2237: 2236: 2225: 2219: 2218: 2207: 2195: 2194: 2191: 2186: 2185: 2184: 2166: 2163: 2138: 2137: 2126: 2115: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2059: 2058: 2023: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2006:Thanks. Done. 1988: 1987: 1963: 1960: 1939:Please revert 1935: 1934: 1931: 1920: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1872: 1871: 1868: 1861: 1789: 1782: 1761: 1760: 1753: 1706: 1705: 1697:Added archive 1683:Brahma Kumaris 1675: 1672: 1651: 1650: 1643: 1596: 1595: 1587:Added archive 1585: 1567:Brahma Kumaris 1559: 1556: 1535: 1534: 1527: 1460: 1459: 1451:Added archive 1437:Brahma Kumaris 1429: 1426: 1394: 1390: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1290: 1289: 1282: 1271: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1206: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1189: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1160: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1138: 1102: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1034: 1033: 1016: 1013: 1012: 1011: 973: 970: 962: 961: 960: 959: 958: 921: 882: 879: 878: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 828: 827: 806: 805: 785: 784: 783: 782: 781: 780: 754: 731: 691: 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3650: 3649: 3648: 3645: 3643: 3642: 3639: 3634: 3626: 3624: 3619: 3618: 3613: 3612: 3611: 3610: 3606: 3603: 3600: 3597: 3594: 3587: 3586: 3578: 3576: 3569: 3567: 3560: 3556: 3548: 3544: 3542: 3535: 3530: 3521: 3520: 3519: 3515: 3513: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3502: 3499: 3495: 3491: 3487: 3486: 3482: 3481: 3477: 3476: 3469: 3468: 3464: 3463: 3458: 3457: 3452: 3449: 3448: 3444: 3443:this document 3439: 3435: 3434: 3433: 3432: 3428: 3426: 3418: 3414: 3409: 3391: 3387: 3383: 3379: 3376: 3375: 3374: 3373: 3372: 3371: 3370: 3369: 3368: 3367: 3366: 3365: 3351: 3348: 3347: 3346: 3345: 3344: 3343: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3323: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3298: 3294: 3293: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3288: 3287: 3286: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3268: 3267: 3266: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3257: 3246: 3242: 3240: 3232: 3231: 3230: 3226: 3222: 3218: 3217: 3216: 3215: 3214: 3213: 3212: 3211: 3198: 3193: 3192: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3186: 3176: 3175: 3174: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3169: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3152: 3141: 3140: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3127: 3123: 3121: 3114: 3112: 3109: 3108: 3100: 3099:In the 1980's 3096: 3092: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3082: 3078: 3075: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3059: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3045: 3041: 3037: 3033: 3032:stating facts 3029: 3025: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3018: 3008: 3003: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2976: 2974: 2963: 2951: 2948: 2944: 2940: 2936: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2920: 2916: 2907: 2901: 2897: 2893: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2881: 2880:third opinion 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2861: 2856: 2855: 2854: 2853: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2838: 2834: 2831: 2827: 2826: 2820: 2816: 2812: 2810: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2799: 2795: 2791: 2778: 2776: 2775:third opinion 2772: 2768: 2764: 2748: 2739: 2735: 2728: 2727: 2721: 2716: 2712: 2708: 2704: 2700: 2694: 2690: 2687: 2683: 2680: 2677: 2673: 2670: 2667: 2664: 2663: 2662: 2659: 2657: 2656:49.36.135.214 2650: 2641: 2637: 2630: 2627: 2622: 2618: 2612: 2609: 2605: 2601: 2600: 2596: 2594: 2583: 2578: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2571: 2567: 2558: 2556: 2555: 2551: 2547: 2542: 2540: 2526: 2524: 2520: 2509: 2507: 2499:was declined. 2498: 2494: 2490: 2487: 2483: 2482: 2476: 2470: 2466: 2462: 2458: 2454: 2453: 2452: 2451: 2448: 2444: 2442: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2431: 2427: 2423: 2419: 2415: 2409: 2404: 2400: 2398: 2395: 2392: 2388: 2385: 2383: 2380: 2379: 2378: 2372: 2370: 2367: 2366: 2362: 2360: 2348: 2347: 2339: 2335:↑ This is z ↑ 2325: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2314: 2309: 2305:↑ This is y ↑ 2296: 2295: 2294: 2291: 2286: 2282:↑ This is x ↑ 2273: 2272: 2271: 2269: 2268:Please change 2265: 2264: 2252: 2248: 2244: 2242: 2239: 2238: 2234: 2230: 2226: 2224: 2221: 2220: 2216: 2212: 2208: 2206: 2203: 2202: 2197: 2196: 2190: 2189: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2177: 2173: 2164: 2162: 2161: 2157: 2153: 2148: 2146: 2135: 2131: 2127: 2124: 2120: 2119: 2113: 2107: 2103: 2099: 2095: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2086: 2084: 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1448: 1446: 1442: 1438: 1433: 1427: 1425: 1424: 1422:_Brahma": --> 1419: 1415: 1410: 1407: 1405: 1399: 1391: 1379: 1375: 1371: 1366: 1365: 1364: 1360: 1356: 1352: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1330: 1326: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1301: 1297: 1287: 1283: 1276: 1275: 1269: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1226: 1222: 1218: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1208: 1207: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1180: 1176: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1166: 1165: 1155: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1137: 1133: 1127: 1121: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1091: 1088: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1069: 1065: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1045: 1042: 1038: 1031: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1023: 1020: 1014: 1010: 1006: 1002: 997: 996: 995: 994: 991: 987: 983: 979: 971: 966: 957: 953: 949: 944: 943: 942: 938: 932: 926: 922: 920: 916: 910: 904: 900: 899: 898: 897: 893: 889: 880: 872: 866: 861: 854: 853: 852: 848: 842: 836: 832: 831: 830: 829: 826: 820: 815: 808: 807: 804: 800: 796: 792: 787: 786: 779: 775: 769: 763: 759: 755: 753: 749: 743: 737: 734: 732: 729: 728: 727: 723: 719: 715: 714: 713: 709: 703: 697: 693: 692: 689: 685: 681: 677: 676: 672: 667: 665: 664: 660: 654: 648: 640: 629: 625: 619: 613: 602: 596: 592: 588: 584: 583: 582: 581: 576: 575: 571: 567: 566:Mark Marathon 559: 558: 554: 553: 547: 543: 542: 527: 523: 519: 515: 511: 510: 509: 508: 507: 506: 505: 504: 503: 502: 501: 500: 486: 481: 480: 479: 478: 477: 476: 475: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 456: 452: 451: 450: 449: 448: 447: 446: 445: 444: 443: 442: 441: 427: 426: 425: 424: 423: 422: 421: 420: 419: 418: 417: 416: 402: 398: 394: 393: 392: 391: 390: 389: 388: 387: 386: 385: 384: 383: 372: 368: 362: 356: 352: 348: 347: 346: 342: 338: 334: 333: 332: 331: 330: 329: 328: 327: 317: 316: 315: 314: 313: 312: 311: 310: 300: 296: 292: 288: 287: 286: 285: 284: 283: 282: 281: 271: 267: 262: 261: 260: 256: 250: 244: 239: 238: 237: 233: 229: 225: 224: 223: 222: 216: 212: 211: 210: 209: 203: 202:third opinion 199: 195: 191: 190: 189: 188: 185: 181: 175: 169: 165: 164: 161: 158: 157: 156: 155: 151: 147: 142: 140: 132: 128: 125: 121: 118: 114: 113: 112: 108: 100: 97: 91: 87: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 3704: 3700: 3697: 3685: 3681: 3678: 3656: 3644: 3640: 3637: 3630: 3622: 3615: 3601: 3595: 3583: 3581: 3573:Remedy 3 of 3572: 3563: 3558: 3540: 3533: 3528: 3511: 3424: 3407: 3404: 3238: 3119: 3106: 3105: 3090: 3030:and is only 3028:one sentence 2972: 2967: 2962:common terms 2961: 2942: 2918: 2911: 2821:Request edit 2808: 2787: 2767:WP:FACTSONLY 2759: 2745: 2738:edit request 2697:— Preceding 2660: 2654: 2639: 2629: 2620: 2611: 2603: 2592: 2587: 2569: 2562: 2543: 2535: 2521: 2518: 2504: 2493:edit request 2477:Request edit 2440: 2412:— Preceding 2410: 2407: 2376: 2368: 2358: 2353: 2331: 2321: 2312: 2311: 2301: 2289: 2288: 2278: 2267: 2266: 2260: 2259: 2250: 2246: 2240: 2232: 2228: 2222: 2214: 2210: 2204: 2175: 2168: 2149: 2141: 2130:edit request 2078: 2061: 2034: 2031: 2028: 2025: 1991: 1989: 1972: 1965: 1944: 1938: 1919:Request edit 1900: 1880: 1873: 1855: 1844: 1839: 1829: 1821: 1806: 1802: 1791: 1786:common names 1765: 1762: 1737:source check 1716: 1710: 1707: 1680: 1677: 1655: 1652: 1627:source check 1606: 1600: 1597: 1564: 1561: 1539: 1536: 1511:source check 1490: 1484: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1461: 1434: 1431: 1411: 1408: 1400: 1396: 1293: 1286:edit request 1153: 1104:Best wishes 1046: 1043: 1039: 1035: 1024: 1021: 1018: 978:Dada Lekhraj 975: 964: 884: 643: 634: 562: 550:Response to 549: 269: 214: 197: 193: 192:The context 159: 143: 136: 110: 102: 98: 95: 78: 43: 37: 3529:Implemented 3115:" Regards, 2947:"Rajesthan" 2077:. 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