1086:. I think I am being justifiably lazy. The section above fails to make the point for me, and yes, settlement/colonisation is biased, contentious, challenged, but I think proponents of the move should provide the evidence, links to a couple of sources that speak to the term “settlement” vs “colony”. I don’t know that “colony” is neutral, and prefer to respect sources, or look to CONSISTENCY with similar articles. I don’t think the Germans in SA were enough to displace SA as obviously British. I know it as more “non-convict” & “non-Irish”, thus it was more suitable for non English free settlers than the other colonies where Irish convicts and ex convicts were everywhere. —
1300:, when you have time, would you please have a read of the article since I have tinkered with it some more, and either do whatever edits you like or let me know what you think is missing or doesn't read well? Do you think it's ready for a C, at least? (I have not intended it to be a comprehensive article about every detail of the history, but as an easy-to-read guide to the sequence of events, with signposting to other articles, some of those created or improved by me.) Scott, I have changed that redirect and just about to check all other redirects to this page and History of South Australia. As you will see, I have also added a bit about the Germans. Cheers.
1043:, see the comments in the section above. This is a low-traffic article, but my issue is that the current heading is too vague and doesn't describe what the article is actually about. It is about the lead-up to and the steps taken by the British government to create a new colony, and the very early days of that colony (until the form of government was changed only a few years after establishment). I suggested that as a new title because is quite specific: colonisation is what happened (it's not suggesting it was good or bad). I'm very open to other suggestions, but I think the current title is misleading, at least in how I read and understand it.
1100:"Settlement" is a statement of opinion, because it takes a clear ideological stance on how white people came to be there (to summarise it right down, I can't "settle" your property). It is not an entirely unpopular statement of opinion, but so is "Trump is a good president", and we don't say that in Knowledge voice either. "Colonisation" is a neutral term: it literally describes the founding of the colony (their term, not mine) of South Australia, whatever ones opinion on the process. The legislation providing for the establishment of that colony literally says in its title that the legislation is "...to provide for the Colonisation of ".
1342:. At this point I have no idea about the answers to your questions, but when I get back to this I will address them and see if I can find any documentation. Most of the sources only talk about the British in those early years. I can't recall where I got the "mostly British" bit from, and it's difficult to find exact numbers of German settlers (apparently quite a few moved on to other states too), but the first lot of Old Lutherans only arrived in November 1838. I don't suppose that anyone has been able to ascertain exact numbers, but
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1195:. The main reason I included the "British" was that it's specifically about the early days of colonisation by the British government. I have just read that the first Germans arrived in 1838, so could make mention of them if the "British" is dropped. But they didn't have anything to do with the actual (political, administrative, etc.) colonisation process - they just settled (farmers, tradesmen, miners, labourers, pastors, etc., according to
1060:"Settlement" is clearly biased language that has been repeatedly and widely challenged in reliable sources; "colonisation" is neutral and indisputable. I'm less certain about the "European"; although it was obviously a British colony SA had a large and significant German colonist community and I'm wondering if it's significant enough to justify retaining that use over "British" - I'm not bothered either way.
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up to the present day, or at least until most of the towns and regions were settled - including various waves of settlers from other places (not being overly familiar with the history, I can only think of
Germans and Cornish) - which would make the whole thing rather too cumbersome and likely to become patchy and mostly useless. What about "British colonisation of South Australia", as per
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flame the article but to show that discussions of
European "settlement" in Australia are political minefields which can easily offend indigenous people with the (often unintended) implication that native title did not exist at the time of European colonisation. In order to minimise this risk it is necessary to be very careful in wording such articles so that it is clear that there are
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1484:. Google tells me that there's quite a lot to be dug up on this body and the early history of emigration to other states, so it needs a separate article. It is mentioned in a few other articles, but none seem to relate to a general history of emigration to Australia. A few more which might be worth looking at, for whoever creates the article:
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I think
British colonisation makes sense and is the clearest way of describing the article content - you make an excellent point about the German aspect, and I think mentioning who was doing the colonising is fairly important for context. Not in favour of trying to turn it into a generalised history
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I find title and intention of this page a little unclear. I see that it used to be called "History of South
Australia from 1831 to 1842", which is perhaps a little long and/or clumsy, but at least it had the benefit of specificity. The current title sounds as if it should include all of the settlers
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I don't have much knowledge of all this so not very good at understanding the politics of it all. To me, this article is trying to be about the early "recorded history" part of South
Australia, rather than trying to take a point of view on whether it was a valid "settlement" or "invasion", etc. Can
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two perspectives on the "settlement" of
Australia by European people: i.e. that of the "settlers" and the rather less well-represented one of the original inhabitants. Even the word "settlement" has the potential to offend indigenous people by implying either that there was nobody there beforehand
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A question: "...were recognised as inhabitable prior to this time..." - by whom were they recognised as such? One assumes that the aboriginal inhabitants of the area had recognised it as habitable since they were already there =) but this statement probably needs clarification - my point is not to
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apparently was wrecked in what is now
Queensland in Aug 1837, but it doesn't indicate where she was based. I'd be interested in a reference or relative numbers for "The settlers were mostly British" in the 1836–1842 section, given how small the British passenger counts were on the first fleet,
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is or should be there either (there are several other Hahns). I think there may be some
British people missing too. I had never really thought about the relative sizes of various parts of the population until I saw how small the passenger groups on those first fleet ships were.
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Unanswered questions as a reader include what happened to the ships and sailors of the first fleet - are they included in the passenger count and became SA's first sailors/merchant fleet, or did they leave and either return to the UK or other voyages?
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and the
History of SA article sections covering the same period. Not entirely surprising, considering most of the settlement was in Adelaide, I suppose - but it would be good to get these rationalised and kept mostly in one article too...
1492:. Also finding more related to T.F. Elliot will return more info about the earlier office of "Agent-General for Emigration". I have too much else on my list to consider tackling this at the moment, but I hope someone else will...
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as proposed. After the extended discussion, there is unanimous support for the use of "colonisation" over "settlement". There is broad consensus that reliable sources indicate that much of the colonising was
British, although
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made it a Crown Colony, or the first time ever actually self-governing??). Any and all ideas welcome... I would just like to see the page better defined and better used. (Not that I have time to get deeply into it just now!)
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article. I belatedly thought that the content about the demise of the Commissioners and the creation of the new body is better placed in this article, which is a narrative linking the two Acts as well, so I've moved it from
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I have read it and made a few minor edits. I think it needs some larger rephrasing around the European explorers - they were leaders of teams/parties/crews, not Flinders, Baudin and Sturt each on their own. The "discovered"
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raise interesting points about the German role. Should anybody desire further discussion on removing "British" from the title on that basis, there is no prejudice against speedily bringing it back to requested moves.
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Hello, I noticed that the original inhabitants of the region in question appear only after half of the article. Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention them already in the lead, and what the colonisation meant for them?
699:) or that the process was a peaceful one (far from the truth). The word "invasion" is probably more accurate, but also liable to give offense to those of European descent. "Colonisation" would be preferable IMHO...
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This page should become a separate article. The Colonial Land and Emigration Commission was established in 1841. In 1855 it was renamed the Emigration Commission and in 1878 it was abolished.
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article because it's specifically about the process of establishing a British colony in South Australia and it doesn't have the broader context that would be required to change its subject.
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Thanks for those links. I will look further too. I agree that the names in the census index are overwhelmingly British, but I wonder how complete it is. I could not find, for example,
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1199:) and didn't seem to play any role in governing, at least until 1857. Happy to go with consensus, but I think it is more about the colonisation process than settlement.
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p.s. I'll have to come back to this later sometime as I have to head out now, but while I have the sources open I'll just park a few here for later ref.
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Indeed. This is literally how the British colonists formally described what they were there to build (a colony) and the process of building that colony.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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The NSW Archives agency description may be suitable to adapt into an article, since it appears to be licensed under a CC BY 4.0 license
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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and added a bit more, and retargeted the redirect to this section. I'm sure there's plenty more to be found. Sorry about the mess.
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I wrote the article, and am fine with a name change. BTW, this article is far from done and I intend to work on it.
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lists only 6 ships from Germany up to 1841. It looks as if it has some useful leads to other info.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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What was this article renamed from. Can you point me to the rename diff if possible. Thanks
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you try editing out the bits that don't concern what I've identified as the topic perhaps.
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The Great Emigration of 1841: Recruitment for New South Wales in British Emigration Fields
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If no-one objects to this title, I shall move the article in a week's time.--
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Support “British” over “European”, but am wondering if either is needed?
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History of South Australia#British preparation for establishing a colony
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who should have been in the German group by then, and I'm not sure if
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compared to hundreds on the German settler ships two years later. --
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1125:, the text of the proclamation, uses colony, not settlement. —
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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what I've just read on a brief but generally reliable source
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For completeness of an old conversation, the rename edit is
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p.s. Somewhat related to this, is a lot of overlap between
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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1278:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1233:. "British" is right (not German etc). The German
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1276:move review
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1024:Untrammeled
999:weak Oppose
926:move review
701:Aikidesigns
670:Scott Davis
1531:Categories
1340:ScottDavis
1298:ScottDavis
1005:applies. —
841:Report bug
1294:SmokeyJoe
1272:talk page
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1007:SmokeyJoe
940:SmokeyJoe
824:this tool
817:this tool
349:, or the
248:Australia
235:Australia
164:Australia
1370:PDF list
1274:or in a
1235:settlers
1058:Support.
830:Cheers.—
692:at least
666:this one
450:European
1482:Support
1472:NickP86
1424:NickP86
1231:Support
1185:Comment
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1020:Support
744:my edit
587:on the
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275:on the
173:History
139:on the
30:B-class
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606:Rename
455:Europe
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