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1174:, While no one denies that there were a handful of homosexuals who were actually prominent in the party, the idea that's discredited is that they were prominent as a group, had a significant negative influence on Nazi policies or controlled the party (see "Historicity" section). When I wrote this, I meant "homosexuals were prominent in the Nazi party". If you think there is a better phrasing which makes this more clear, please be bold.
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1449:, Thanks for taking a look at this. The first sentence of the abstract of Oosterhuis: "In the early 1930s, German Social Democrats and Communists seized upon the homosexual orientation of some Nazi leaders, especially Ernst Röhm, with the aim of discrediting the entire National Socialist movement." In the body of the paper, he does not discuss any incidents before 1931.
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and relaxed towards the fact of its own gay population, almost in spite of itself; while simultaneously remaining culturally completely opposed to such a thing's existence. The general atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia, and the fear of all outsider groups, must have exaggerated this tendency to murderous proportions.
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tolerant of homosexuality in society at large. They were only willing to overlook it in a few of their own members in the short term, while they were perceived as useful, but even they were violently eliminated once they were no longer considered necessary. That was tactical hypocrisy. Nothing else.
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This is not unexplored. It is well known that the Nazis hated those relatively liberal Weimar attitudes, which they regarded as "degenerate" and part of a Jewish conspiracy to weaken
Germany. They used their opposition to them as a major plank of their pitch for power (in terms shockingly similar to
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The
Nineteenth Century saw a gradual acceptance of liberalised attitudes to homosexuality in Germany. This, in tandem with longstanding background attitudes of conservative intolerance, must have led to the situation in Germany just before the Nazis' rise, of a public which had become accustomed to
1680:
ALT2 appears to come from the statement by
Jonathan Zimmerman at the end of the "Historicity" section. The phrase "gay people helped bring Nazism to Germany" does not seem to imply "homosexuals caused Nazism". I am not equating "bring Nazism to Germany" with "caused Nazism". Is there a more similar
1649:
Overall, the article is in decent shape. Please do not be discouraged as it may appear I have a lot of questions. I sincerely do want to see this on the main page. Article created on April 13, and nominated on the same day. Length and sourcing are adequate. Please see hooks and neutrality questions
1155:
There is a weirdness to writing "discredited theory asserting that homosexuals were prominent in the Nazi party" next to a picture of a prominent homosexual in the Nazi party. I question whether there is any "theory" here at all. But the claim that "homosexuals were prominent in the Nazi party" is
1812:
Would you be interested in having a rook run on the main page during LGBT Pride Month in June? I feel it would be applicable, and perhaps usage of one of the free licensed photos such as the pink triangle would be relevant and give more exposure. Just a thought. No rush here, take your time as
2236:
If I might quote from another article: "The first organized gay rights movement arose in the late nineteenth century in
Germany. In the 1920s and into the early 1930s, there were LGBT communities in cities like Berlin; German-Jewish sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld was one of the most notable
2202:]. The original text 'Proletarian Humanism' states: ″Уже сложилась саркастическая поговорка: «Уничтожьте гомосексуали стов — фашизм исчезнет»″ which may be translated as ″There is already a sarcastic saying: «Destroy homosexuals — fascism will disappear»″ (can be found in Russian here
2232:
One of the unexplored areas which might seem to shore up the notion of an early Nazi tolerance of homosexuality, is that in the era directly preceding that of the Nazis, German society seems to have been strangely relaxed in relation to homosexuality, at least in comparison to later.
1974:
ALT1 is interesting, but I am still confused exactly where it is cited. It seems like a summary of the article as a whole, rather than a specific fact mentioned inline. I feel the sentence "The myth is nearly as old as the Nazi party itself" does not lead the reader to equate to
1970:
ALT0 is interesting. It appears to mentioned in the first sentence of the second parapgraph in the "Origins" section. The blame portion of the hook is cited from the subsequent quote. For clarity, I am equating "scapegoat" with "blaming". Verified by AGF on the offline
2004:
ALT4 is very interesting, properly mentioned and cited in line, and verified by AGF on the offline source. The corresponding photo is clear at a low resolution, properly licensed and enhances the hook well. Hook is suitable as a special occasion for Pride Month in
1842:, thanks for the very thorough review. I believe I've addressed 1,2,and 3 (2 by rewriting a bit and directly quoting the supporting text in an invisible comment). I think your pride month idea is a good one and here's a hook that fits the occasion:
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Ernst Rohm surrounded himself with like minded thugs and were the hammer the NSDAP came to power with. The entire page is bogus. The fact that Rohm was on the losing side of an internal power struggle doesn't make their influence a "myth".
1724:, and better to be safe than sorry. Specifically the statement, "Gay fascism is the discredited idea", "had a significant negative influence on its policies or even controlled the party", and "Historians regard the claim as having no merit".
1737:
In the "Origins" section, the statement "Most leftists, even those who were themselves gay" seem subjective. Is there a way to avoid saying most leftists, or have a citation directly at the end of the sentence which could be
1427:
the history section of the article mainly uses print sources. Could you provide a quote from the book (it looks like it's the
Marhoefer book) that specifically verifies that this idea originated in the 1930s?
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are approved. Preference for ALT4 with the photo as a special occasion request for Pride Month in June. The article adheres to all other DYK criteria as per my review above. ALT1 and ALT2 have been struck.
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heard the word "homofascism", is when used by right-wing
Reactionaries as a word to describe their own perception of LGBT rights activists aggressively taking over the narrative of normativity from them.
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not discredited. The article even refers to "the homosexuality of well known Nazis" in WP's voice. I think something is missing here. The lead does not correctly describe the myths being peddled.
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I'm fairly well acquainted with this subject, and not only do I not use this word to describe it, until this moment I had never even encountered the word being used in this context. Where I
1677:
ALT1 is also interesting, but I am confused on its citation. It appears to be cited from "The myth is nearly as old as the Nazi party itself", but the party was founded in 1920 and not 1930?
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listed below. No plagiarism issues detected. No photo is used in this nomination, but all images used in the article are properly licensed on the commons. QPQ requirement is met.
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the anti-LGBT rhetoric you will hear used by far-right politicians today) and they made a point of burning
Hirschfeld's library almost a soon as they came to power. They were
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2046:, No, I think we're good. Of all the hooks I like ALT4 best (preferably with the picture), then ALT0 and ALT3. Three hooks should be enough! Thanks again for your review.
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
1913:
I will be looking at this off and on today, and likely will not finish in one sitting. I separated the hooks questions above to make it easier to read and follow. Cheers.
1670:
ALT0 is interesting, but there does not appear to be a citation directly at the end of the sentence which discusses the hook. Also, "blamed for Nazism" is not apparent to
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Several statements in the lead section are likely to be challenged. I generally avoid citations in the lead section, but I feel they are warranted here as per
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2025:), tentative approval given for ALT0, ALT3 and ALT4. Would you like to discuss the above comments on ALT1 and ALT2, or go ahead with the other three hooks?
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I don't agree that's it's fairly popular, but insofar as how it's known 'homofascism' is the term people usually use nowadays as opposed to 'gay fascism'
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procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
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So far things look good. I have no remaining neutrality concerns, and the friendly suggestions are clear too. Will resume a bit later today.
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homofascism is a fairly popular ideology, and the contents of this article seems to be a good candidate for a history section of it..
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Also the Weimar
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1494:, I am starting a full review now. Please look for comments soon, and I look forward to working with you again. Cheers!
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ALT3 is most interesting hook to me, but I do not see any specific sentence which cites it. Have I missed something?
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ALT3 is very interesting, properly mentioned and cited in line, and verified by AGF on the offline source.
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/G/GOR%27KIY_Maksim/Gor'kiy_M._Sobranie_sochineniy_v_30_tt._T.27.(1953)..zip
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In the "Origins" section, the statement "Bucking the trend, in a polemical essay", seems like a
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has been promoted from the 1930s up to this day, even though it is considered a "flat-out lie"?
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was invented by the German left, but since has been taken up by the Christian right?
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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me from the wording "due to the rhetoric and scapegoating employed by the left".
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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argued that homosexuals had become "Jews of the antifascists" due to being
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I question the "Low Importance" designation assigned to this page.
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These are friendly suggestions, not DYK criteria or failures.
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in the 1970s to counter "the vicious, influential myth" of a
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violation. Is there a way to change the tone of the phrase?
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Please see general questions below on neutrality. Thanks.
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Note: The latest incident mentioned in the article is 2020
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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the
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for the real story instead of these deranged ramblings (
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I will have a closer look at the changes later today.
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1345:has been promoted from the 1930s up to this day?
2206:article starts on p. 233, quote is on p. 238)
2439:Low-importance Sexology and sexuality articles
1132:Template:Did you know nominations/Gay fascism
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1270:No further edits should be made to this page
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1665:Hooks questions
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1487:
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1318:
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1312:Article history
1251:
1245:
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1175:
1153:
1142:Knowledge (XXG)
1060:, any expected
997:
994:
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938:
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883:
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787:
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755:
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663:
626:
623:
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269:Politics portal
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174:
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104:
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61:
29:
12:
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5:
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2197:
2194:
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2133:
2130:
2119:Georgearnold23
2114:
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2103:
2102:
2068:
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1992:
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1091:Gay Nazis myth
1087:
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1026:
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1014:Low-importance
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971:
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939:Low‑importance
933:
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909:Low-importance
905:
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879:the discussion
866:
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837:
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834:Low‑importance
828:
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804:Low-importance
800:
794:
793:
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774:the discussion
761:
760:
757:Society portal
744:
732:
731:
729:Low‑importance
723:
711:
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671:
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643:Low-importance
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598:
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581:
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568:
566:Low‑importance
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522:
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496:the discussion
483:
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466:
454:
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451:Low‑importance
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429:
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421:Low-importance
417:
411:
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391:the discussion
378:
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374:Germany portal
361:
349:
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346:Low‑importance
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316:Low-importance
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121:Low-importance
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96:Discrimination
91:the discussion
87:Discrimination
77:
65:
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62:Low‑importance
59:Discrimination
56:
44:
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26:
13:
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2028:
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2018:
2014:
2011:
2010:
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2008:
2002:
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1989:
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1968:
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1852:pink triangle
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1619:Interesting:
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489:
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480:
479:Europe portal
469:
467:
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278:
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217:
213:LGBT articles
200:
196:
192:
188:
187:
186:
177:
166:
164:
161:
157:
156:
152:
149:
146:
143:
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57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
2289:
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2231:
2208:— Preceding
2199:
2173:
2144:220.245.20.3
2138:— Preceding
2135:
2116:
2086:
2082:
2078:
2059:
2054:
2049:
2019:
2000:
1987:
1966:
1954:
1953:
1879:
1874:
1869:
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1664:
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1600:
1551:
1550:
1514:
1507:
1485:Reviewing...
1484:
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1462:
1457:
1452:
1396:
1385:
1371:
1367:
1358:
1356:
1352:
1340:
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1326:
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1278:
1276:
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1261:
1257:
1252:
1249:
1225:
1214:Rohm scandal
1187:
1182:
1177:
1154:
1118:
1111:Did you know
1110:
1100:Did you know
1098:
1090:
1089:A fact from
1055:
1044:
1013:
973:
908:
868:
803:
763:
642:
610:
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525:
485:
420:
380:
315:
275:
204:LGBT studies
195:project page
183:
182:
176:LGBTQ portal
148:LGBT studies
120:
80:
40:WikiProjects
2268:DanielRigal
1738:challenged?
1722:WP:LEADCITE
1536:Long enough
1398:Created by
1105:check views
2308:Categories
2092:Flibirigit
2044:Flibirigit
2027:Flibirigit
1933:Flibirigit
1915:Flibirigit
1897:Flibirigit
1855:(pictured)
1840:Flibirigit
1815:Flibirigit
1793:MOS:LQUOTE
1767:Flibirigit
1696:Flibirigit
1652:Flibirigit
1586:plagiarism
1525:New enough
1496:Flibirigit
1323:Klaus Mann
1051:designated
989:Psychology
980:Psychology
936:Psychology
618:Philosophy
607:philosophy
553:Philosophy
199:discussion
2247:Nuttyskin
2180:Nuttyskin
2160:FAISSALOO
1753:WP:CLICHE
1419:Comment:
1321:... that
1095:Main Page
1064:, or any
779:Sociology
770:sociology
726:Sociology
2210:unsigned
2140:unsigned
2023:contribs
1813:needed.
1634:: Done.
1580:Free of
1515:General:
1386:Reviewed
1279:promoted
291:Politics
282:politics
238:Politics
1971:source.
1641:Overall
1569:Neutral
1303:Comment
1283:Yoninah
1097:in the
1016:on the
911:on the
806:on the
645:on the
528:on the
423:on the
396:Germany
387:Germany
343:Germany
318:on the
123:on the
30:C-class
2292:buidhe
2164:(talk)
2013:Buidhe
1975:1930s.
1865:source
1588:, and
1490:Buidhe
1423:Buidhe
1400:Buidhe
1228:buidhe
684:Ethics
558:Ethics
36:scale.
2263:never
2005:June.
1608:Cited
1355::...
1337::...
1172:Srnec
1158:Srnec
191:LGBTQ
2272:talk
2251:talk
2218:talk
2184:talk
2174:have
2148:talk
2123:talk
2096:talk
2087:ALT0
2085:and
2083:ALT3
2079:ALT4
2055:uidh
2031:talk
2017:talk
2001:Done
1988:Done
1967:Done
1937:talk
1919:talk
1901:talk
1875:uidh
1848:ALT4
1819:talk
1805:Done
1788:Done
1771:talk
1748:Done
1734:Done
1717:Done
1700:talk
1656:talk
1500:talk
1458:uidh
1434:talk
1404:talk
1368:ALT3
1353:ALT2
1335:ALT1
1307:view
1287:talk
1212:See
1204:talk
1183:uidh
1162:talk
1151:Lead
1045:The
1632:QPQ
1616:- ?
1577:- ?
1305:or
1281:by
1264:or
1008:Low
903:Low
798:Low
637:Low
520:Low
415:Low
310:Low
115:Low
2310::
2288:)
2284:·
2274:)
2253:)
2241:)
2220:)
2186:)
2150:)
2125:)
2098:)
2081:,
2033:)
1939:)
1921:)
1903:)
1863:?
1821:)
1773:)
1702:)
1672:be
1658:)
1643::
1610::
1592::
1584:,
1571::
1560::
1538::
1527::
1502:)
1436:)
1388::
1331:?
1298:(
1289:)
1260:,
1224:)
1220:·
1206:)
1164:)
664:/
560:/
556::
2286:c
2282:t
2270:(
2249:(
2216:(
2182:(
2146:(
2121:(
2094:(
2060:e
2050:b
2029:(
2020:·
2015:(
1935:(
1917:(
1899:(
1880:e
1870:b
1817:(
1795:.
1769:(
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1654:(
1498:(
1492::
1488:@
1463:e
1453:b
1432:(
1425::
1421:@
1410:.
1402:(
1317:)
1285:(
1272:.
1222:c
1218:t
1202:(
1188:e
1178:b
1160:(
1134:.
1123:?
1020:.
915:.
810:.
649:.
532:.
427:.
322:.
201:.
127:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
