Talk:Great Depression/Archive 1

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Roosevelt 1937 + 5.0 Roosevelt 1938 - 4.5 Roosevelt 1939 + 7.9 Roosevelt Annual Growth of Tax Collections by President (1) President Tax Growth ---------------------- Roosevelt 121.3% Truman 3.7 Eisenhower 2.4 Kennedy 4.8 L Johnson 6.9 Nixon 0.3 Ford 6.4 Carter 3.0 Reagan 2.4 Bush 0.0 Government Receipts, Combined, Federal, State and Local (Percentage of GDP) (2) Year Combined Federal State and Local ------------------------------------------ 1947 22.9% 17.3% 5.6% 1948 22.6 16.8 5.8 1949 21.1 15.0 6.1 1950 21.4 14.8 6.6 1951 22.7 16.5 6.3 1952 25.7 19.4 6.2 1953 25.5 19.1 6.4 1954 25.7 18.9 6.7 1955 23.9 17.0 6.9 1956 25.0 17.9 7.0 1957 25.6 18.3 7.3 1958 25.4 17.8 7.6 1959 24.2 16.5 7.7 1960 26.2 18.3 7.9 1961 26.6 18.3 8.4 1962 26.4 18.0 8.4 1963 26.8 18.2 8.6 1964 26.7 18.0 8.7 1965 26.1 17.4 8.7 1966 26.6 17.8 8.8 1967 27.5 18.8 8.8 1968 27.4 18.1 9.4 1969 29.8 20.2 9.6 < tax plateau reached 1970 29.7 19.6 10.2 1971 28.1 17.8 10.3 1972 28.9 18.1 10.9 1973 29.0 18.1 10.8 1974 29.5 18.8 10.7 < economy slows down 1975 29.3 18.5 10.8 1976 28.5 17.7 10.8 TQ 28.3 18.3 10.1 1977 29.4 18.5 10.9 1978 29.2 18.5 10.7 1979 29.1 19.1 10.0 1980 29.6 19.6 10.1 1981 30.2 20.2 9.9 1982 30.0 19.8 10.3 1983 28.6 18.1 10.5 1984 28.6 18.0 10.5 1985 29.1 18.5 10.6 1986 29.0 18.2 10.7 1987 30.1 19.2 10.9 1988 29.6 18.9 10.7 1989 29.9 19.2 10.7 1990 29.5 18.8 10.7 1991 29.5 18.6 10.9 1992 29.5 18.4 11.1 1993 29.6 18.4 11.2 1994 30.0 19.0 11.1 1995 30.4 19.3 11.0 Percent of U.S. individual worker productivity (U.S. = 100%) Country 1950s 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990 ------------------------------------------------ United States 100% 100 100 100 100 Canada 77.1 80.1 84.2 92.8 95.5 Italy 30.8 43.9 66.4 80.9 85.5 France 36.8 46.0 61.7 80.1 85.3 Germany 32.4 49.1 61.8 77.4 81.1 United Kingdom 53.9 54.3 58.0 65.9 71.9 Japan 15.2 23.2 45.7 62.6 70.7

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ludicrous war spokesman) writing an account of the war in Iraq. The version 172 reverted to is deeply flawed, by far less so than the rubbish which there now. IMHO we should use the version 172 reverted to as the starting point and work on it, incorporating from it the less loopy elements of the current article (I'm sure there is something in somewhere that qualifies, though a first and second glance didn't show up much). I would suggest using the 172 revert as a temp into which salvageable bits of the current article can be moved. Using the current version as the starting point would, as Mr. Spock would say, illogical. It is sooooo POV and simplistic as to be comical. Trying to add to a workable but flawed basic article is preferable to trying to take apart a much longer monumentally flawed bit of POV nonsense, most of which is beyond salvation.

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that in this article fails to communicate much intersting information. Why not have different sections on different theories? This eliminates the clearly contentious matter of what the "real" reason is, and I think it would be safe to say that no one knows the real reason for sure anyhow! Plus, I think it would be fascinating and quite useful to see how the various theories, including Keynesian, Classical, Marxist, Austrian, etc. compare to each other. I might feel up to writing up a few of the books I have read, presenting them as points of view. I'm sure we could find willing and competent authors for most of the major theories.

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keeping what is there now as a template would make wiki a laughing stock among historians of the period. Wiki has many many good points but its weakness is that some people, if no-one notices, can totally agendise an article to the point where it becomes a totally biased loopy polemic, whether extreme right or extreme left. This is one article that had been so agendised, so such an extent that it would be a nightmare trying to salvage it. Which is why I believe the revertion, though an extreme act, in this case is the best, or at least the least worst, route.

1011:) researchers document that similar Great Depressions, Persistent Recessions and Panics have occurred cyclically in regular 40 to 65 year cycles in Capitalist Economies; documented in academic papers and books based on records back to 1763 BCE. The Code of Hammurabi, for example, confirmed that Depressions (periods of high inequity) were corrected by "Jubilees" (wealth distributing Government Policy) every 50-years as required to prevent revolution and social collapse problems proactively. 31: 204:

I think is generally blamed on a premature over-tightening of fiscal policy: the 1938 contraction was a temporary affair, and national income in 1940 was already above the 1929 peak. Recovery in most of Europe was already well under way, and war preparations at most cushioned European economies against the effects of the 1937-38 U.S. downturn and contributed to the sharp rise in US production in 1940-41.

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would not only protect American business but also American jobs. Therefore, Congress passed the legislation and Hoover signed it into law despite his misgivings. It is part of the bias of this article and others related to this era that Hoover is first accused of "doing nothing" (which is extremely inaccurate) and then condemned when he did act.

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appearing to do something. The most successful economies in the 30s were the totalitarian ones, unconcerned with having to keep voters and businesses happy. How long Hitler would have lasted without a war is an interesting question, would the deficit financing have brought him down sooner or later in a huge financial crash?

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Historians seem more then a bit confused on what happened in the US during this period. Some seem to think it was a period of slow growth full of panics, others that is was the most exceptional period of growth in US history. The US passed England as the #1 economic power during this time frame which

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In order to pay for these and other government programs, Hoover agreed to one of the largest tax increases in American history. The Revenue Act of 1932 raised taxes on the highest incomes from 25% to 63%. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15%. Hoover also encouraged

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Also, no account of the leadup to the Great Depression is complete without some mention of the British Monetary Crisis. The US, due to their trading ties with Britain, involved themselves in this issue during most of that time. The British monetary crisis is a perid of economic history that set the

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If anyone's interested in internationalizing this article, I'd be interested in Latin America. I've already written a good deal on the Great Depression in Brazil for the history of Brazil article; perhaps some of that content could be borrowed as a case-study of the Great Depression's impact on Third

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2) Deflation vs. inflation: I don't know of any hyperinflations in the 1930s: prices everywhere fell until currencies were freed from gold, and even after currency depreciation, the problem was maintaining prices rather than controlling inflation: hyperinflation requires the belief that today's goods

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Another specific example of the lack of objectivity is the bit which blames "Hoover and the Republican Congress" for Hawley-Smoot. The House Ways and Means Committee held hearings which generated 20,000 pages of documents regarding tariff protection. It was thought at the time that tariff protection

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3. The Austrian view: Protective tariffs and a cheap credit policy by various central banks during the 1920s distorted business decision-making so as to weaken the economy. A tightening of credit in 1929 made these decisions unsustainable, but government stabilization measures discouraged businesses

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This suggests a narrow POV in line with the J. M. Keynes thesis that it was a "failure of demand", which is reflected throughout the article. It is suggested that people stopped buying goods (Since 1918?? What about the roaring 20's, with the accompanying sustained high inflation??), and this caused

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I have fallen into the traps of too many overly-ambitious topics, which prevent me from working on this page (although it is far more urgent than my unfinished business). I agree with Jtdril that the rant isn't salvageable, meaning that it cannot be restructured to be integrated with the text of the

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I can't help feeling here that this article is somewhat biased and needs more pro New Deal arguments adding. The anti new deal people seem to contradict themselves, they claim that government deficit spending in the new deal worsened the depression. But then they claim that the depression came to an

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4) While fear of the Administration's regulatory initiatives appear to have contributed to the downturn of July-Novermber 1933, the Supreme Court's decisions of January 1935-January 1936 and its change of heart in April 1937 came too late to cause the 1933-37 recovery or the 1937-38 recession, which

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Also changed the wording on Smoot-Hawley. The conventional wisdom is that things like Smoot-Hawley turned a stock market panic into something worse. However, the paragraph as it stood seem to imply that Smoot-Hawley caused the stock market crash of 1929 which would have been interesting since it was

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Someone who has read Frederick Lewis Allen's 'Only Yesterday' and 'Since Yesterday' more recently than 40 years ago needs to work this article over. There is a great deal to be said about the extreme depth of the depression (25% unemployment in the US at one point), Hoover's unfortunate attempts to

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Year %Change in GNP President ---------------------------------- 1930 - 9.4% Hoover 1931 - 8.5 Hoover 1932 -13.4 Hoover 1933 - 2.1 Hoover/Roosevelt 1934 + 7.7 Roosevelt 1935 + 8.1 Roosevelt 1936 +14.1

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I admit that I have never considered the Keynes thesis to be reasonable. It is in effect the claim that people were poor because they already had everything that they needed (and hence stopped buying): they were poor because they were so rich. I mean, people then had a lot less "stuff" than people

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On the global scale, the market crash in the USA was a final straw in an already shaky world economic situation. By then, since 1914, Britain, Europe and the United States had been implementing the most extreme interventionist global economic policies in history. These policies, largely involving

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Seriously, there has to be a reason why there WAS a depression in the 1930s and there wasn't from the late 1940s to the early 1970s. There is some doubt about how effective FDR's policies were (equally the UK government's policies in the same period) but essentially he saved capitalism by at least

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Despite these actions and the massive intervention by his successor, FDR, the economy did not improve. A severe contraction occurred in 1937-38 (a contraction labeled a depression by some economists) and the economy continued to struggle until the 1940’s (unemployment did not drop below 9.9% until

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For what it's worth, being a mere amateur economic enthusiast who has read many books on the causes of the Great Depression, it seems to me that the suggestion above regarding mutiple theories seems the most helpful. Clearly, trying to announce that there is a "widely held view" and then reporting

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which says "A number of myths that are popular in conventional histories of the Depression are punctured in Parker's book. For example, the Knowledge (XXG) echoes many textbooks in saying, "A fundamental misdistribution of purchasing power, the greatly unequal distribution of wealth throughout the

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There is also no mention of the tactics by FDR when he decided to try to end the depression by burning the crops, killing the livestock, and raising interest rates and taxation. It's strange that the words "tax" or "taxation" do not appear even once in the entire article when it is common to have

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My reason for suggesting that thisinformation should be added is that throughout 1929 it was probably also well known that there was a high likelihood of the act passing. This knowledge is likely to have affected business decisions in 1929, causing US business to begin preparing for the worst --

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I note that 172 is attempting to supress the update of this page with that information. I do understand why, due to my previous radical changes to this page. However, at the time I was suffering from a nervous breakdown, and was trying to occupy my mind with other things. I guess I just got too

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The economic data of the period reflect that the depression was not accompanied by a deflation, but a consistently inflationary period. Looking at the data, it's obvious that there were much longer, and more sudden and severe periods of deflation through the 1800's. By comparison with the 1800's,

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Even monetarist economists acknowledge that many factors were involved; this user was just determined to only elaborate on the points that monetarists emphasize the most. Other issues were the lack of diversification of the US economy, a maldistribution of purchasing power, the credit structure of

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Right now, this is the least NPOV article of which I'm aware. One rightwing user single-handedly hijacked this article, determined to stifle any Keynesian analysis. Granted the previous version was in bad shape, but the current version belongs on the talk page until it can be balanced. Until then,

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Maveric149, I mean not to accuse you personally of a whitewash. Roosevelt is still a towering figure in 20th century history, and because of this honest criticism of actions he took is still muted today. His legacy rides on the triumphs of social security and defeating fascism, and the whitewash

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That's advocacy, not description. Many can and do make such serious arguments. For example, it has been argued that the purpose of the New Deal was to "tide people over" to prevent some human suffering until better times. Others have pointed to the growing unrest in Depression-stricken areas, and

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Deflation in some countries, hyperinflation in others. It depended on which methods the governments used to try to solve the problem. "Business as usual" and budget balancing resulted in deflation. "Spend our way out of trouble by printing money" resulted in hyper-inflation. Neither method worked.

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a) Asked congress for a $ 400 million increase in the Federal Building Program b) Directed the Department of Commerce to establish a Division of Public Construction in December 1929. c) Increased subsidies for ship construction through the Federal Shipping Board d) Urged the state governors to

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Before Hoover, the Federal government did not intervene with direct aid or public works spending to counteract a financial crisis. Many people would have considered it a violation of American republican principles to do so. The idea that a government could spend its way out of contraction was not

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at its will. It's good to remember that that the actual crash doesn't cause the wealth to disappear, it just moves it around and it is possible that it went into the hands of the private bankers behind the FED. I'm not claiming here to be NPOV, but I think it is important to bring this point of a

610:. Business inventories of all types were three times as large as they had been a year before (an indication that the public was not buying products as rapidly as in the past); and other signposts of economic health--freight carloads, industrial production, wholesale prices--were slipping downward. 297:

Having read the article I do not think the rewrite done is salvageable. Its analysis is so biased even Margaret Thatcher would have blanched reading it. It is so inaccurate and POV it is mindblowing; it is the equivalent of the IRA writing an Irish history article or Saddam Hussein (or rather his

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Then go through the article and delete the hopeless offending paragraphs, move the really bad but possibly fixable ones here and fix the ones that can be easily fixed. However the version you reverted to is ancient and a great deal of work has been done since then. It is very bad form to take the

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has to be seen as a cause of the depression in Europe, since the lure of stock market speculation diverted money that might otherwise have gone overseas: Germany was already in recession as the Dow started on its last ascent, sharply cutting the flow of dollars to Europe by mid-1929. As a result,

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While it is common in many circles to blame Hoover for "doing nothing" and being a lassiez-faire president (patently false - he rejected lassiez-faire and was an active reformer both as Secretary of Commerce and as President), one must understand the times before passing judgments such as he did

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In my view, this article needs a serious rewrite. It almost entirely is devoted to a discussion to the debates over what caused it, could have prevented it, or made it worse (and I might add it seems mostly slanted against the New Deal), while spending almost no time discussing the actual facts

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I won't claim to be an expert on that area but from the knowledge I do possess, I have rarely read an article that drew more "you can't be serious", "that is Bull Shit" and "for fuckin' sake, that is shit" responses from me as this article. This is to history what the X-files is to science. And

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Roosevelt's election (November 1932) but immediately before his inauguration (March 4). The immediate effect on business was extremely severe but equally short-lived, with U.S industrial output shooting up in March-July 1933 and prices recovering in the wake of de facto devaluation. The banking

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I would guess that events in the USA were probably the trigger for the depression, but not the real cause. The economic situation in most parts of the world was a real mess ever since the end of World War 1. The appearance of prosperity 1919-1929 was an illusion. Unemployment was high, a lot of

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I know little about the depression in other countries, but for the U.S. this is not true. The depression began to ease after the Supreme Court struck down FDR's New Deal legislation, but after they began to uphold his legislation, the economy had another serious downturn in 1937 (I think). The

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It's most likely that the direct effect of this preparation was that businesses began a pre-emptive round of layoffs, but I need to look into that level of detail a little more. In 1930 the act passed, after the financial collapse began, but I am trying to point out that it is likely that the

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9) Raised tariffs to protect American jobs. After hearings held by the House Ways and Means Committee generated over 20,000 pages of testimony regarding tariff protection, Congress responded with legislation that Hoover signed despite some misgivings. Instead of protecting American jobs, the

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I just read this article for the first time, and was immediately struck by how biased it is. Much of the text is judgmental and does not present a "neutral" point of view. For example, the phrase "maldistribution of purchasing power" contains an assumption about what would be "good" or "bad"

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Hoover took more action against an economic crisis than any president before him. This is forgotten for two reasons. First is the sheer scale of Roosevelt's programs. Second is the fact that Hoover eschewed federal legislation for his early measures, preferring informal agreements with state

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the Depression in 1929. But the POV is not mentioned that this thesis is also subject to a reversal of causality. It can as well be claimed that nearer to 1929, when the high consumption of the roaring 20's petered out, people spent less because the economy was already in a depression.

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distributions. Putting to one side the debate about how purchasing power was actually distributed ( in itself a difficult subject, and one that continues to be debated ), it would surely be more in keeping with the spirit of Knowledge (XXG) to avoid making judgments of this kind. - IM.

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Wasn't it under FDR that the Federal government began the policy of weekly tax payment deductions. Which certainly helped the Federal Government's cash flow and probably had a related impact on the the economy by lowering the amount of interest the government had to pay. reggers vilppu

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will fetch more (devalued) money tomorrow, which is difficult to achieve in the conditions of the 1930s. Germany's experience under Bruning (1930-32) was actually severely deflationary: I think there's a confusion in paragraph 4 with Germany's 1923 inflation - a very different crisis.

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the tiny deflationary blips in the period 1925 through 1940 are minor and trivial. Prior to the 20th century, protracted periods of deflation were an expected part of the business cycle, and did not cause anything like the Great Depression. It is important to highlight these facts.

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7) Actively encouraged businesses to maintain high wages during the depression. Many businessmen, most notably Henry Ford, raised or maintained their worker’s wages early in the depression in the hope that more money into the pockets of consumers would end the economic downturn.

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I have no interest in New Deal or Roosevelt. I would expect they would be more matters of history than POV in any case. Aany mess over there can be for someone else to clear up, I have my hands full just drawing attention to a blatant lack of NPOV here, thank you very much. --

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Additionally, I would suggest having a separate entry on Causes, and then another on events, life during the Depression, social impact, etc.. Finally, this is my first edit on Knowledge (XXG), so if I have inadvertently broken some ettiquete, please feel free to point it out.

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article. This article really needs to be turned into series of articles on key countries, such as Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Canada, Mexico, and Brazil. Of course this isn't the entire world, but each country provides a good case study for each its respective regions.

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1. The European fallout theory: The physical and institutional destruction of the War, along with the terms of the Versailles treaty, caused a delayed worldwide collapse of finance and trade. This appears to have been the dominant contemporary view, but it is rare today.

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governments and private institutions. Therefore focusing on legislative measures misses a large part of the picture. The difference between Hoover and Roosevelt was not over whether the government should act, but whether it could/should be the sole agent of recovery.

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8) Signed the Reconstruction Finance Act. This act established the Reconstruction Finance Corporation which made loans to the states for public works and unemployment relief. In addition, the RFC made loans to banks, railroads and agriculture credit organizations.

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scene for the Great Depression. The article already mentions, in several places, that the rest of the world was already suffering severe financial troubles prior to October 1929, so any resistance to expanding slightly on that information does not seem reasonable.

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Many in the Hoover administration believed that as wages fell, the cost of production would drop, and as a result, production would pick up again, and the depression would be self-correcting. For this reason, they saw no need for the government to intervene in the

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battening down the hatches, so to speak, since they were well aware that raising domestic tariffs would cause retaliation from overseas trading nations, and justly predicted that this would lead to a consequent decrease in overseas demand for their production.

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The article in its present form discusses several supposed causes of the Great Depression, but all of these causes come from the same macroeconomic view (aka the "Keynesian" view). There are at least four distinct theories of what caused the depression.

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The article is too eager (and certainely biased) here to implify that the crash was worsened, or even created by a lack of FED control over commercial banks. Today FED has the power to control the cash reserve ratio of all the U.S. banks because of the

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Hawley-Smoot tariff is widely blamed for setting off a worldwide trade war which only worsened the country’s economic ills. This is a classic example of how government actions, despite good intentions, can trigger negative, unintended consequences.

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I've been working on the article since the rant was removed. It's in better shape now. But due to me not getting around to doing it, it's still very US-centric and lacks social history. I'll get around to it someday, but some help would be great.

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2. The macroeconomic view: Diverse imbalances and weaknesses in the economy produced a financial collapse. Roosevelt's policies were deliberately designed to correct these imbalances and weaknesses. This is the most commonly taught theory today.

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I think it is important to add that in 1929 the Smoot-Hawley tariff act (a measure aimed at protecting US agriculture) was well known to be progressing through congress. In October of 1929 it passed a critical Senate committee vote.

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International finance never recovered from the strains of World War I. Some believe that World War I caused a dramatic increase in productivity capacity, particularly outside Europe, without a corresponding increase in sustained

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However, economic data shows that the US Federal Reserve's monetary policy, except for very brief periods in 1929 and 1936-1937 when it turned mildly deflationist, was consistently and unremittingly inflationist in the 1920s and

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Fixed up the sentence on the causes of the Great Depression. I think that there is a general consensus among economists today that certain policies help create the Great Depression. What's more controversial is the notion that

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This is true but misleading. Hoover noted in his memoirs that many in his administration held these views. However he and other officials did not, and his policies were not based on them. The article does not make this clear.

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people were poor, and most of the rich had money and shares that turned out to be either borrowed, embezzled, or worthless. The big crash was going to happen somewhere, and no matter where it happened it was going to spread.

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Fine. Just make sure you incorporate all the valid edits made since the biased one. Who did the hack job and when? A cur from that version should help (but that would only work if the longer version is the current version).

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Two problems stand out above all. One is the lack of social history. Impersonal macroeconomic indicators don't tell us the whole story. Second, the article is Amero-centric (something for which I'm partially responsible).

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It's a huge subject, really involving the entire history of the inter-war world economy, and I'm not even going to attempt incorporating these items into the article just yet, but a few thoughts may be worth discussing:

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OK - that's not so bad. I thought it was a much earlier version. In retrospect I should have watched this article in the first place (then it would have been me doing the reverting last month instead of you doing so

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1920s, was a factor contributing to the depression." None of the economists interviewed by Parker cites this so-called causal factor." Glad to see Knowledge (XXG) being quoted, even if in a not so pleasant light.

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lies not with you but with the way his legend is told in our national mythology. Despite confiscating private gold, at least he kept the linkage. If you want to look for the true thieves, consider the meaning of

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1) European (and particularly German) reliance on the outflow of U.S. dollars in the form of loans and investments (in the absence of buoyant U.S imports of European goods): in this connection the Wall Street

87:(1) Removed "American" from "of American history." Books are written about the history of the Depression in Europe... Knowledge (XXG) is an international encyclopedia--has to be, since it's on the Internet! 696:"In other words, the banking system was not well prepared to absorb the shock of a major recession. The banking system as a whole, moreover, was only very loosely regulated by the Federal Reserve System." 574:

I do not think that the alterations I have suggested here are in any way unusual, and I believe they improve NPOV. I am more than willing to back up the information I am attempting to include. --

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crisis is really a distinct episode, one which may paradoxically have assisted recovery by allowing the Administrations to show decisiveness and by enlisting public support for dramatic action.

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I've been working on the causes since we've rescued this article from the ideological hijacking. However, the causes section still requires significant work, along with every other section.

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Whilst this is partially true, it did not happen until the Postwar Labour government after WW2, Britain certainly didn't make much progress towards a planned national economy in the 1930s,

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the economy, and America's position in international trade. Many non-monetarist economists would emphasize these four points, and rebut much of the arguments in the current version.

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On the contrary, the article should state the possibility of FED actually being a major cause of the Great Depression with its power to inflate and deflate and in so control the

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You may not be able to convince anyone of anything hat they don't want to believe. Just put the numbers there and let people decide for themselves. Here are some of them,

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i noticed that the beginning sentence says the depression was the decade following WWII i think the author meant WWI considering WWII began during the Great Depression.

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For the sake of the people who are not very familiar with this point in history, could you give a few examples which specifically show why Octothorn's text is so bad? --

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Hyperinflation is when the paper money you hold becomes worthless, in the depression, money actually gained value, while the price of goods was depressed by deflation.

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some discussion of the way taxation levels changed over the period of the Great Depression. I am concerned this also indicates some lack of NPOV in the article. --

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Agreed. Right now this article amounts to a section -- to be called Causes of the Great Depression -- of the even better article which I hope you will help me write!

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5) Established the President’s Emergency Relief Organization to coordinate local, private relief efforts resulting in over 3,000 relief committees across the U.S.

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was suffering from hyperinflation of currency. Many of the Allied victors of World War I were also having serious problems paying off huge war debts. In the late

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obsessed. Those who look at some of the other pages I have edited will see that this type of behaviour is unusual. You will also faind my apology on this page.

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Also, supposedly world war II ought not get the credit for ending the depression. The economy had already returned to pre-depression status a while before.

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Is the point where you guys hug and declare undying love? :-) Wow. Such wikilove. (A slightly merry jtd, having had my first alcohol since the accident! )

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when the crisis came in the States, Europe was in no position to keep the international system afloat with purchases of cut-price U.S. (or other) goods.

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3) Signed the Federal Home Loan Bank Act establishing the Federal Home Loan Bank system to assist citizens in obtaining financing to purchase a home.

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common. FDR himself promised to REDUCE Federal spending during the 1932 election during which he accused Hoover of reckless and profligate spending.

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Because the US was still in a state of depression when it entered World War II, it is hard to make a serious argument that the New Deal was a success.

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former version. However, the position that it is arguing can go under the heading of a subtopic, say something on the arguments of Milton Friedman.

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My apologies for this. I was going through a rough patch, I will keep my contributions appropriate and try to help rebuild the page. By the way,

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capitalism in the United States, which elsewise might have been overthrown by a seriously discontented populace. Now, the original author may not

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maintain budget balance (which I believe he himself abandoned near the end of his term); the failure of the US banking system in 1932, etc. (DJK)

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It's my fault too. Rather than having a broad focus, I've made the mistake of getting bogged down in massive projects. I've neglected it too.

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knowledge of the intention to pass the act was sufficient to damage industry and probably contributed to triggering the Great Depression. --

1023: 590:. Commodity prices had been falling worldwide since 1926, reducing the capacity of exporters in the peripheral, undeveloped economies of 952:

Article is not stable enough for GA status currently (sprotected). Also a questionable image (Alabama family, see image discussion). /

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The only thing I don't like about this article is the lack of cite templates. It is well referenced, but hard to skip back and forth.

1043: 451: 933:, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section. 79: 71: 66: 665:

There are articles on the New Deal and Roosevelt administration. Please, however, don't annoy us with your POV agendas there.

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6) Urged bankers to form the National Credit Corporation to assist banks in financial trouble and protect depositor’s money.

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I second the writer above about the "maldistribution" section and about the lack of objectivity in this article as a whole.

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view into the article. Googling to ' "federal reserve system" "great depression" ' should prove the issue is widely debated.

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2) Increased Public Works Spending – some of Hoover’s efforts to stimulate the economy through public works are as follows:

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economy was on an improving trend prior to our entry into WWII, but was nowhere near its pre-depression status. Jhanley

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This section is lacking and does not reference what was originally called the "Great Depression" and now is called the

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World monocultural economies. Separate articles on economic history, however, would be useful for Germany and Britain.

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As I've said before, this is the most one-sided article of which I'm aware. I'm going to restore the older version.

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Basically, the article has a thoroughly Keynsian POV, with little or no consideration for monetarist theory. --

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I would also like to make a suggestion with regard to the following paragraph, as it appears in the main text:

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4. The Marxist view: the Great Depression was one of the periodic catastrophes that must occur in capitalism.

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The Great Depression resulted in deflation, not hyperinflation--right? So says someone on sci.econ. --LMS

1018:. This Depression hit Europe in the late 1800's, and was long and severe there, but mostly missed the US. 410:

BTW, the Great Depression had a profound impact on Latin America. I dealt with this in great detil in the

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1) Signed the Emergency Relief and Construction Act, the nation’s first Federal unemployment assistance.

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In the United States, President Herbert Hoover made only half-hearted efforts to control the situation...

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it the events in the U.S. that led to the worldwide depression? Is that widely-agreed upon as well?

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The same user is back trying to restore is propaganda piece little by little. See the bottom of the

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The following is an outline of just some of the actions Hoover took to end the Great Depression.

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Congress to investigate the New York Stock Exchange and this pressure resulted in various reforms

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the American economy at first seemed immune to the mounting troubles, but with the start of the

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The edits were largely copyediting the rightwing rant by Octothorn done in early June.

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Britain adopted far-reaching measures in the development of a planned national economy

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Agreed, and I believe there's an NPOV problem in the later paragraphs, beginning with

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Last edited at 16:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:37, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

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also increase their public works spending though many failed to take any action.

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Until then, I'm glad that I have support now in restoring the less bad version.

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easy route and simply revert - thus destroying the work of many other people. --

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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The US economy had thus been showing some signs of distress for months before

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have today. So why did they have "too much", while today no one has enough?

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If that's true, then it should be in the article, shouldn't it? --LMS

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Details of Hoover's response to the Great Depression can be found in

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I propose the following version to the first paragraph of this page:

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and a crash doesn't look all that impossible in the near future.

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it was the decade BEFORE world war two (which started in 1939).

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to buy products from the core industrial countries, such as the

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Exactly the same as my first thought. - 20:04, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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yeah, it could be clearer, but notice "in the development..."

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3) The US banking system only failed in February 1933 - i.e.

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4) Increased subsidies to the nation’s struggling farmers.

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about what the Depression was and how it affected people.

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My reasons for suggesting these changes are as follows:

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end due to government deficit spending in World War 2.

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The first paragraph of the introduction begins with:

93:(3) Finally--I'm no historian, so I'm just asking-- 245:these arguments, but they're serious arguments. 929:, and are posted here for posterity. Following 923:The comment(s) below were originally left at 873:Maybe he should have joined WWII earlier.... 805:maldistribution and other questionable claims 535:Britain and the US, were in dealing with the 507:It is widely believed that the events in the 388:This article should perhaps be redirected to 8: 146:see the article now, I added this piece. -- 169:caused the Great Depression, as opposed to 1088:for discussing improvements to the page 486:is the period of history that followed " 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 425:I have a problem with this sentence. 233:suggested that the New Deal actually 121:in some places - added to article -- 7: 941:I'm going to nominate for GA status. 555:it crashed with startling rapidity. 275:the old article should be posted. 894:, I'll try to find all of them. - 24: 931:several discussions in past years 1076: 977: 733:from correcting their mistakes. 390:Great Depression (United States) 29: 1106:22:14, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 1022:supports the fast growth camp. 926:Talk:Great Depression/Comments 171:wrong government intervention. 1: 1032:22:06, 17 December 2013 (UTC) 957:16:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC) 948:16:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC) 970:Section on Other depressions 817:little or nothing to help. 1000:to reactivate your request. 988:has been answered. Set the 1122: 1090:Great Depression/Archive 1 1070:03:48, 17 April 2014 (UTC) 1052:02:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC) 887:Just put the numbers there 692:01:04, Oct 20, 2003 (UTC) 684:I ran across this article 454:for details on this user. 938: 702:Monetary Control Act 1980 669:17:55, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 661:17:45, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 652:17:45, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 627:17:11, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 578:15:07, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC) 458:14:51, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC) 1007:Longwave Economics (see 898:20:34, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 716:00:49, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC) 677:18:15, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 519:and a great increase in 466:04:23, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) 437:21:56 26 Jul 2003 (UTC) 377:04:27 20 Jul 2003 (UTC) 306:02:40 20 Jul 2003 (UTC) 537:British Monetary Crisis 511:triggered a world-wide 445:23:23 26 Jul 2003 (UTC) 357:10:18 27 Jul 2003 (UTC) 293:02:02 20 Jul 2003 (UTC) 167:government intervention 912:. Which is used here: 760:Hoover's public papers 42:of past discussions. 18:Talk:Great Depression 905:I can't find the "un 476:fr:Grande Dépression 919:Assessment comment 492:stock market crash 452:Votes for deletion 174:passed afterward. 1103: 1042:comment added by 1004: 1003: 964: 963: 789:"Maldistribution" 412:History of Brazil 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 1113: 1102: 1099: 1096: 1080: 1079: 1054: 1009:Kondraitiev wave 995: 991: 981: 980: 974: 936: 935: 928: 484:Great Depression 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 1121: 1120: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1097: 1094: 1077: 1037: 1016:Long Depression 993: 989: 978: 972: 924: 921: 903: 889: 807: 791: 768: 515:, which led to 110: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1119: 1117: 1109: 1108: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1024:71.174.141.198 1006: 1002: 1001: 982: 971: 968: 962: 961: 960: 959: 920: 917: 900: 888: 885: 884: 871: 806: 803: 802: 801: 800: 799: 790: 787: 767: 764: 752: 751: 742: 741: 718: 694: 682: 681: 680: 679: 678: 654: 638: 637: 629: 612: 611: 580: 557: 556: 531: 530: 525: 524: 504: 503: 488:Black Thursday 479: 478: 469: 468: 467: 448: 447: 446: 423: 422: 421: 420: 419: 379: 371: 362: 361: 360: 359: 358: 340: 339: 321: 320: 319: 308: 295: 294: 272: 264: 253: 252: 251: 250: 249: 223: 222: 211: 176: 162: 157: 152: 151: 150: 140: 139: 132: 127: 126: 125: 115: 109: 106: 105: 83: 82: 77: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1118: 1107: 1104: 1100: 1091: 1087: 1083: 1075: 1071: 1067: 1063: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1034: 1033: 1029: 1025: 1019: 1017: 1012: 1010: 999: 996:parameter to 987: 983: 976: 975: 969: 967: 958: 955: 951: 950: 949: 946: 942: 937: 934: 932: 927: 918: 916: 914: 911: 908: 899: 897: 896:Jerryseinfeld 893: 886: 883: 882: 878: 874: 870: 866: 864: 859: 855: 851: 847: 844: 841: 838: 835: 831: 828: 825: 822: 818: 814: 810: 804: 797: 796: 793: 792: 788: 786: 783: 779: 775: 772: 766:taxcollection 765: 763: 761: 756: 748: 747: 746: 739: 738: 737: 734: 730: 726: 722: 717: 715: 710: 705: 703: 697: 693: 691: 686: 676: 671: 670: 668: 664: 663: 662: 660: 653: 651: 646: 642: 634: 633: 632: 628: 626: 620: 616: 609: 605: 604:United States 601: 597: 593: 592:Latin America 589: 585: 584: 583: 579: 577: 572: 568: 564: 560: 554: 550: 546: 542: 538: 533: 532: 527: 526: 522: 518: 514: 510: 509:United States 506: 505: 501: 497: 494:of Thursday, 493: 489: 485: 481: 480: 477: 474: 473: 472: 465: 461: 460: 459: 457: 453: 444: 440: 439: 438: 436: 431: 430: 426: 418: 413: 409: 408: 407: 402: 401: 400: 399: 393: 391: 386: 382: 378: 376: 370: 369: 365: 356: 352: 348: 344: 343: 342: 341: 336: 335: 334: 333: 328: 324: 316: 315: 314: 313: 307: 305: 299: 292: 287: 286: 285: 284: 280: 276: 271: 270: 263: 262: 258: 248: 244: 240: 236: 231: 227: 226: 225: 224: 220: 219: 218: 217: 210: 209: 205: 201: 198: 193: 189: 186: 180: 175: 172: 168: 161: 156: 149: 145: 144: 143: 137: 136: 135: 131: 124: 120: 119: 118: 114: 107: 104: 103: 98: 96: 91: 88: 81: 78: 75: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 1084:this is the 1081: 1044:75.76.122.90 1038:— Preceding 1035: 1020: 1013: 1005: 997: 986:edit request 965: 940: 922: 904: 890: 879: 875: 872: 867: 861: 860: 856: 852: 848: 845: 842: 839: 836: 832: 829: 826: 823: 819: 815: 811: 808: 784: 780: 776: 773: 769: 757: 753: 743: 735: 731: 727: 723: 719: 709:money supply 706: 698: 695: 683: 655: 647: 643: 639: 630: 621: 617: 613: 588:October 1929 581: 573: 569: 565: 561: 558: 521:unemployment 483: 470: 449: 432: 428: 427: 424: 394: 387: 383: 380: 372: 366: 363: 329: 325: 322: 309: 300: 296: 281: 277: 273: 265: 254: 242: 238: 234: 229: 212: 208:David Parker 206: 202: 196: 194: 190: 184: 181: 177: 170: 166: 163: 158: 153: 141: 133: 128: 116: 111: 99: 94: 92: 89: 86: 60: 43: 37: 750:economy.... 541:World War I 375:FearÉIREANN 351:FearÉIREANN 304:FearÉIREANN 36:This is an 990:|answered= 907:employment 513:depression 496:October 24 338:now).--mav 269:User:G-Man 243:agree with 1098:Pessimist 1095:Sparkling 1086:talk page 1082:Not done: 714:Finlander 675:Octothorn 659:Octothorn 650:Octothorn 625:Octothorn 576:Octothorn 517:deflation 355:Octothorn 349:and also 216:soulpatch 148:mike dill 123:mike dill 80:Archive 5 72:Archive 3 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 1040:unsigned 954:Blaxthos 945:Blaxthos 785:patimen 247:-- April 108:Untitled 1062:Rjensen 869:1942). 636:demand. 608:Britain 545:Germany 490:", the 39:archive 600:Africa 598:, and 549:1920s 529:1930s. 994:|ans= 984:This 881:Exile 553:1930s 435:G-Man 318:--mav 235:saved 197:after 16:< 1066:talk 1048:talk 1028:talk 774:--- 690:Dori 606:and 596:Asia 500:1929 482:The 392:. 239:like 185:boom 992:or 865:. 667:172 543:, 464:mav 456:172 443:172 417:172 406:172 398:172 368:172 347:172 332:172 312:172 291:mav 283:172 261:º¡º 241:or 102:LMS 95:was 1068:) 1050:) 1030:) 998:no 915:. 762:. 594:, 498:, 100:-- 76:→ 1064:( 1046:( 1026:( 943:/ 523:. 502:. 259:- 50:.

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