1278:
lot of controversy when people try to recreate the style because they read that and think they need to dump a ton of hops into the boil, or think the "tart" means sour and try to make it into a sour beer. Those same historic sources go on about how the water made the beer what it was. I used a specific example of the sulfate-chloride ratio and how it affected the flavor, trying to illustrate that you can use that ratio and end up with a beer that accentuates hop bitterness, or you could use water with a high chloride to sulfate ratio, and the same exact ingredients and process, and end up with a beer that was much maltier. The paragraph tries to illustrate how much the mineral character of the water affects the taste of the final beer. If you use brewing water with 31-34 ppm magnesium ions, your beer will present a slightly sour or bitter flavor. It's sour because of the mineral content, not because it was fermented with
Lactobacillus. Alkalinity in the water affected the final flavor by increasing hop utilization and affecting the pH during the brewing process. It's a highly technical paragraph that I tried to simplify as much as I could without making it excessively rambling. An in-depth article on brewing chemistry would be nice to have to link to, but I'm not aware of one on wikipedia, but I tried to link to a fairly decent source as a reference (except for the fairly annoying background).
1270:"For example, Sulfate ions and chloride ions are present in a ratio of approximately 2.2 parts sulfate to 1 part chloride." â how does this level of detail aid understanding? It comes across as just picking out a random number from a table. The next sentence gives some description of why this ratio is important, but I'm still left mystified at whether 2.2:1 is an unusually low or high ratio. And it's not clear to me how this is an example of high mineral content or alkalinity: it's about minerals rather than alkalinity (but I had to look up several other Knowledge (XXG) articles to figure even that much out), but is about how the minerals are balanced rather than whether they are present in high or low amounts.
2560:, I think those were all good improvements to the article. I've gone through and made changes to the article that you have identified. See if you think my changes have addressed your suggestions, and if I got some of the changes right, like the Polish name for United Breweries Grodziskie. I spent a lot of time in the past trying to come up with some reliable sources for the brewery's closure but I haven't really been able to identify a good reference for who took over the brewery when it was privatized (Lech, supposedly) and a more precise date of when it ceased operations. Perhaps you know. Thanks for your help, and I'll check back in later when you have a chance to go through the sources.
1769:
closure of the brewery due to unprofitability and the lack of ability to find people who could brew the style, but that happened after communism. The juniper beer article was primarily about another small-scale unique alcoholic beverage that was traditionally produced in a different region of Poland and was an interesting read, but the part of interest in the grodziskie article was a part of the discussion that discussed regional culinary traditions under the communist government and the difficulties they faced in producing and promoting their products in favor of inexpensive mass-produced .
1042:. Unfortunately, I have not been able to locate any free-to-use images of that the beer and the glass. The one that I just linked to is a good image of the color of the beer, the bottle, and the shape of the glass, but unfortunately it depicts the beer as completely flat and uncarbonated, so even if that particular image didn't have copyright issues, I don't think it would be an improvement over the image that I did find, which at least shows a decent amount of carbonation and decent color (although fairly cloudy) even though it's not in the "official" glass.
1998:...It is a unique style, featuring a clear, light golden color, high carbonation, low alcohol content, low to moderate levels of hop bitterness, and a strong smoke flavor and aroma. The beer tastes light and crisp, with a unique character coming from the smoked malt, the high mineral content of the water, and the strain of yeast used to ferment the beverage. The beer was nicknamed "Polish Champagne" because of its high carbonation levels, and because it was valued as a high-quality beer to be used for special occasions...
1684:"Its peak of popularity occurred just prior to the first World War": not in either of the two sources given. One source says that it grew in popularity until the early 20th century and dwindled in the late 20th century, but without being specific about the timing relative to the war. The other says that it "experienced a real renaissance" before the war, but also that it gained new markets up to the 1970s. And reference (not used in this sentence) attributes its decline to the post-WWII communist system.
1617:"for over 200 years, the residents of Grodzisk would make an annual pilgrimage to Bernard's monastery, about 80 miles away, and leave a keg of the town's finest beer as a show of their gratitude." Aside from the weasel-worded "its finest beer" (copied from source ), this is almost the same as source , "For well over two hundred years, the citizens of Grodzisk would make an annual pilgrimage to Bernard's monastery, some 80 miles away, and leave a keg of Gratzer beer as a token of their gratitude."
2959:"In 2011, the Polish Homebrewers Association formed the Commission for the Revival of the Grätzer Beer." The Polish Homebrewers Association's website doesn't seem to use this name. They refer to "Grodziskie Redivivus" project commission instead . Perhaps it would be best to simply rewrite the same in lower case (and replace "Grätzer" with "Grodziskie") to avoid the appearance that this is an official name: "... formed a commission for the revival of the Grodziskie beer."
587:
356:
1967:, how does two more weeks sound? That puts the deadline at the end of January 4, past the holidays and New Year. Although Neil916 is an intermittent editor, last year he made seventeen edits from December 30 to January 3, so there's some hope that he'll be available to edit at the same time this year. Standard holds start at one week, so a month plus over a week total strikes me as generous, but allowing for holiday interruptions.
3004:
1890's production of the 100,000 hectolitres, those figures were also cited in the
Grodziskie redivivus paper, which added the statement that Grodziskie had been brewed in the largest quantities. The GR project even hinted that the 100,000 hl was entirely Grodziskie beer, but Szmelich didn't say it so unambiguously, so that's why I said 100,000 hl, mostly Grodiskie. I added the additional cite to GR to the article.
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also known as but they clearly missed the mark on the "Grätzer" name. I have been going under the assumption is was a variant of the name resulting from a Polish language issue, like "Beer from
America" vs. "American beer". Different forms of the same word, etc. I didn't want to get too repetitive with the explanation of the Grätzer name because that's already discussed in the history section.
1013:. Since there is no definite testing that has ever been done on the original strains of yeast, we can't say for sure that it was originally an ale yeast rather than a lager yeast, or something else altogether. Modern interpretations of the style generally use ale yeast for the fermentation. I've chosen to sidestep the naming controversy altogether by simply referring to grodziskie as a "beer".
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962:. That portion of that article defines weasel words as "Weasel words are words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated.". An example of that would be "some people say that the beer tastes funny". However, I have changed "unique" to "strong".
1304:(bicarbonates) the final pH of the wort would have ended up higher unless significant water treatments were used (no historical record of that), which causes effects in the final beer (hop utilization, extraction of other flavors, etc.) than it would have if the source water was soft water. Once again, very significant in a discussion of the beer's ingredients.
469:
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1060:"several breweries began producing seasonal or year-round recreations of the historic style, spurred by interest in the style from the homebrewing community": the history section mentiones the homebrewing interest, but it neither documents brewery production of this beer post-1993 nor documents any influence of homebrewing on commercial breweries.
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1655:"3,200 barrels (5,000 hl)" â that's a plausible number but it's written in the format one would use for converting imperial to metric units. Was it generated by converting some standard barrel unit to hectoliters or does the (Polish language) source actually give both the number of actual barrels and the measure of liquid in them?
1377:"mostly local Polish varieties of hops including Nowotomyski and Polish Lublin ... such as Czech Saaz, German Tettnanger and Hallertauer MittelfrĂźh" is too closely paraphrased from the source "largely local varieties including Nowotomyski and Polish Lublin ... such as Czech Saaz and German Tettnanger and Hallertauer MittelfrĂźh"
2373:"It would have resulted in a higher pH during the early stages of production, which would inhibit the efficiency of the natural enzymes that convert the starch in the grain to fermentable sugars during the mash..." Is this use of the word "mash" correct? I'd think mash is the product and the process is called "mashing".
1296:"The alkalinity of the water in Grodzisk also affected the flavor of the finished beer, favoring increased hop utilization and bitterness, and bicarbonate ions present in the water would have affected the pH" reads as if alkalinity and high pH are two different things, when actually they are two names for the same thing.
2745:
When I click the link, I get the Google Books page. On the left side, there is a red button that says "READ EBOOK". When I hover my mouse over that button, a menu pops up, with one of the items that says "Download PDF". When I click on the hyperlinked "PDF", I am directed directly to a PDF version
2667:
that only mentions the Îą-amylase rest. (I haven't used that document as a reference in this article because there isn't enough information on the pspd site to fully identify its source, author, or date, although the filename suggests it is from 1970). So I referred to it as an Îą-amylase rest in the
1244:
I've deleted that word, but given that this first sentence is the topic sentence of a paragraph describing a process of malting wheat that was never used for any other style and which contributes a significant portion of the flavor that makes it different from any other style of beer, what word would
925:
For the most part this is well referenced. There were one or two claims for which sources appeared to be lacking. The sources all look reliable and well-formatted. However one paragraph includes an issue with original research by synthesis, detailed below, and it is possible that similar issues exist
2825:
Same para: "Other records from PoznaĹ document that as a reward for their fine service, the city council in 1712 purchased a barrel of
Grodziskie beer for the two mayors of the city." This sounds as if this was unusual, but what the source really says is that, in 1712, the PoznaĹ city council agreed
2663:
10-minute β-amylase rest at 150°F (66°C) (although it doesn't specifically mention it by that name, a rest at that temperature is unquestionably a β-amylase rest). I couldn't find mention of this β-amylase rest in any other source, however and wasn't comfortable including it in this article. The
1760:
Reference 20 "Juniper Beer in Poland" is subscription-only, so I have to take it on good faith, but is used to attribute the 1993 closure in part to inability to find brewers who knew how to brew this style of beer. But the title of the reference suggests that it is primarily about a different style
2335:
I'll need help with that because I have not found any sources that explains the origin of the "Grodzisz" name although I did find it listed as an alternative name in some reliable sources as an "also known as". The Brewer's
Association document lists it as the primary name, with "Grodziskie" as an
1407:
There's a general issue with this whole section: it describes, in great (possibly too great) detail, a specific recipe used at some specific time for this beer. But the recipe has changed over time, and there is no indication either of that fact or of the time that this recipe was used. Some of the
1277:
You're right, it is all about the balance of minerals, and that was the point I was trying to make about the ingredients. Many of the historical sources that can be found about this beer describe the flavor in vague, subjective terms. "It was strongly hopped and somewhat tart". This has led to a
3003:
Some notes- I had already linked the
Warschauer reference to the Google Books site, which seems like a more stable long term link than the Grodziskie Redivivus project webpage, which might change without notice. The PDF of the original work can be viewed or downloaded from there. Regarding the
2241:
The word "beer" seems overused, sometimes appearing twice in the same sentence. I suggest replacing some instances with synonyms, such as "brew", "beverage", "product", etc., depending on the context. For example: "the beer was filtered to remove suspended proteins that may cause cloudiness in the
1741:
That was actually sourced to the Stan
Hieronymus interview, but the statement must have gotten separated from its reference tag during editing. Fixed that. A grain bill is basically the lists and proportions of the different malts used in the production of the beer. The recipe. In Grodziskie
1138:
The
Zymurgy article does indeed use that vague "use of finings such as isinglass" phrase, but I haven't seen any sources that suggest that anything other than isinglass was ever used. The "grodziskie redivivus project" reference specifically 1-1.5L/hl of isinglass solution used for fining. There
1067:
I usually don't like to provide links to breweries who do "one-off" examples of the style or occasional runs of the style, because then every garage brewery that runs off a batch of the style feels entitled to turn the article into a link farm. I am not aware of any breweries that have a constant
2063:
Well, I have gone through and answered the questions. Sorry, but I don't feel that I would be able to provide a polite response to 333-blue's suggestion that the article contains too much information. My responses to David
Eppstein's comments were, unfortunately delayed as I got really busy in
2538:
The paragraph goes smoothly from the
Communist-era decline of the style to the ultimate end of its production in 1993. It may mislead the reader to think that the brewery was shut down by the Communists. In fact, Grodziskie continued to be produced throughout the Communist period, which ended in
2653:
I understand that the "infusion (...) to raise the mash to the relatively high saccharification temperature" mentioned in the source is the same as saccharification rest, which, per the linked article is the same as Îą-amylase rest. But why use a term which is not used in the source? And why is
2413:
First paragraph: "By the 16th century, the OstrorĂłg nobility in the Wielkopolska region of Poland controlled the region." Couple of suggestions here: change "nobility" to "family"; avoid repetition of "region" (replace second instance with "area" or another synonym); you might also think about
1768:
Reference 20 doesn't have anything to do with the closure of the brewery, but it has to do with the communist government putting an emphasis on large-scale production of cheap, simple beers at the expense of emphasizing small regional styles like Grodziskie. References 4 and 18 related to the
2079:
At this point, the easiest way to handle this would be just to make a new GA nomination once you think it's ready. However, some of your non-responses (e.g. "I don't know" in response to the question over image licensing) look like they could be show-stoppers unless they are actually handled.
1812:
The Graetzer beer label image is labeled as being public domain because its copyright has expired, but to check this one needs to know the date the label was published, which is not listed. This would also be helpful information to include in the caption. Do you know how recent this label
1303:
It's not. Alkalinity refers to the concentration of bicarbonate ions. Bicarbonate ions will raise the wort pH, but other compounds, like acids or Calcium, will lower the pH. The final wort pH of the wort will depend on the final balance. Since the source water was high in alkalinity
980:
The lead primarily properly summarizes content from the article rather than including content that is not summarized from elsewhere. But the content it summarizes is primarily from the description and history sections; the ingredients and production are less well represented in the lead.
2878:
7th para: "Starting in 1922, the production of Grodziskie was continued by only one company, Zjednoczone Browary Grodziskie." Citation needed, but you can use AWY (2011). It's OK to provide a literal English translation of the company's name (United Grodzisk Breweries) in parenthesis.
2789:
Third para: "A brewers' guild was formed in the town in 1601." Again, all sources that mention the guild actually cite Warschauer (1893), who wrote about OstrorĂłg's confirmation of the guild's statute. The guild itself may have been older. Also, it was a maltsters' and brewers' guild.
1665:
which stated that historically a "Beczka" of beer might have been between 130 and 160 liters. I just stuck with the unit without attempting to wikilink to the volume article. It did look like a case of false precision with the 3192 barrels, though, so I changed it to about 3200.
1408:
information (e.g. the rate of burst bottles) is very specific to this time and would depend on unrelated information like the quality of the bottle supplier and whether the beer was even primarily packaged in bottles rather than (as I would have assumed in older times) barrels.
1326:: combining information from one source (the chemical characteristics of the water used for this beer) with information from another source (how chemical characteristics affect beer in general) to produce a novel synthesis (how the water used for this beer shaped its flavor).
3594:
1734:"Grodziskie is still brewed by some homebrewers in Poland with 100% smoked wheat grain bills." is sourced to , but that source only briefly mentions homebrewing and says nothing about how pure and how smoked the grain used by the homebrewers is. Also, what is a bill?
1009:
All ales are beers, but not all beers are ales. In some parts of the world (especially the UK) people get bent out of shape when you apply the label "ale" to something that doesn't meet their fairly narrow definition. An example that jumps to mind:
3245:
All main aspects sufficiently covered. Some details of ingredient and production may be of interest to specialists only, while some historical details may be go beyond what would be required in a historical overview, but the level of detail is not
2803:
4th para: "The first documentation of the beer being exported to other regions were from records in the nearby city of PoznaĹ from 1694." The source (again, citing Warschauer) actually says that the first metion of export comes from 1671 in
2710:
Same para: "For over 200 years after the event, the residents of Grodzisk would make an annual procession to Bernard's monastery, walking the approximately 130 kilometers (80 mi)..." The distance cited from Scott (2012) is obviously wrong.
2527:"Production continued during the German occupation of World War II..." It sounds as if the war was being occupied. I'd suggest rewording to something like: "Production continued under the German occupation of Poland during World War II..."
2860:
Same para: "By the 1890s, the five breweries in Grätz produced over 100,000 hectoliters (2,600,000 U.S. gal) of beer, with Grätzer produced in the largest quantities." The source simply says 100,000 hl of Grodziskie (although, in Polish,
2632:
Fourth para: "... but by the 1960s the hopping rate had decreased to 2.4 kilograms (5.3 lb) of hops per 100 kilograms (220 lb) of wheat." The source says "per 100 kg of malt". Is 100 kg of fresh wheat equivalent to 100 kg of wheat malt?
1936:, it has been three weeks since the above exchange, which was also Neil916's most recent edit on Knowledge (XXG), so nothing has been done here or with the article. What are the chances that some progress can be made in the near future?
1443:
Page 2, "Yeast" Section: "One yeast strain was of a high and early flocculating type, the other one was powdery. With both working simultaneously, the wort was fermented really fast, loosing ca 50Â % of its extract during 60 hours. "
3595:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150402193519/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/j-jakubowska-some-biochemical-features-of-flocculent-and-non-flocculent-yeast-used-in-brewery-in-grodzisk-wlkp-acta-microbiologica-polonica-1972.pdf
2359:
Second pararaph: "Many of the flavor characteristics of Grodziskie result from the characteristics of the water..." To avoid the repetition of "characteristics", replace one instance with "attributes", "distinctive features", etc.
1636:"when Grodzisk became part of Prussia": it's confusing to have two wikilinks directly adjacent like this â there is no visual indication to readers that clickng in different parts of the linked text will produce different results.
1352:"Without access to the actual yeast used historically, most modern recreations of the beer typically use ale yeasts that do not contribute a significant amount of yeast character to the beer." has no footnote â what is its source?
3598:
2275:
Some more obscure units of measurement, like "hectoliter" should be spelled out, especially on first mention. Also, throughtout the article, metric units (like hl) should be converted to imperial and vice versa (like miles).
1467:"The town of Grodzisk Wielkopolski was founded around 1257": our article on the town says instead that this is the date it was first mentioned in an official document, but the context suggests that it had existed for longer.
3634:
2444:
Second paragraph: "Bernard prayed for the wells, and blessed the source, and a new source of water suddenly filled the Old Market Well." This doesn't make sense to me: how did he bless the source before it sprang up?
921:
This is on the whole well written, but with a disturbing and unacceptably high amount of copied phrases and close paraphrasing. The lead could use a more balanced summary of whole article. The weasel word "unique" is
2576:
Thanks, the changes look good. Going through the sources, even in a cursory manner, will keep me busy for some time, so please bear with me. I'll try to look around for a source about the brewery's closure, too. â
1031:
The source from which the "trumpet-shaped glass" description comes shows a photo of a glass with no stem. But our lead photo instead shows a glass with a stem. Which is the proper shape of a glass for this kind of
2658:
Fixed the capitalization issue. The Zymurgy source is a bit confusing; in the body of the text, it only mentions the 30 minute ι-amylase rest at 158°F (70°C). However, the yellow sidebar separately mentioned an
2500:
Sixth paragraph: it would be good to mention that Grodzisk became part of an independent Poland again in 1918. Otherwise, the reader may be surpised that its name was protected by the Polish government in 1929.
3758:
3484:
3118:
Well written; no grammatical, punctuation or spelling errors found. Lead summarizes all major aspects of the topic (description, ingredient and production, and history), no issues with layout, words to watch
1333:
As I mentioned, I used that reference to provide a reader a path to more detailed information about brewing chemistry without completely hijacking the article with a lengthy discussion of brewing chemistry.
2938:"After the Communist period in Poland ended in 1989, production continued under private ownership, but ended in 1993, when the brewery was closed due to lack of profitability..." Ĺawniczak (2007) mentions
2976:
Ok. I ended up unexpectedly picking up a new real-life project that is going to be keeping me away from the computer for a while, but I should be able to stop by in the next day or so to wrap this up.
1761:
of beer. Does it really explicitly say that the 1993 closure happened because there were no more people who knew how to brew Grodziskie, or is that an inference from more general statements in the source?
3355:. Ideally, the caption should say that this is a modern, U.S.-brewed recreation of the style. It could also explain that the glass shown here is not of the typical conical shape described in the article.
3604:
736:
project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
1662:
The original source actually says "3192 barrels (5,000 hl)" I could not find any direct conversion from 5000 hl into one of the many known units of volume known as barrels (closest I came was
3599:
http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/j-jakubowska-some-biochemical-features-of-flocculent-and-non-flocculent-yeast-used-in-brewery-in-grodzisk-wlkp-acta-microbiologica-polonica-1972.pdf
3388:
and see that all critical objections have been addressed. Other suggestions may be treated as non-binding hints for future improvement. I'm extending the on-hold period for one more week. â
2016:
Maybe, but the copied text is a more serious problem. Anyway, there is still one more day and a few hours left in my time zone before the deadline, but this may well all be moot very soon. â
2427:"Industrial-scale brewing developed when Johann Volanus... imported skilled brewers from neighboring regions like Moravia and Bohemia." Greater Poland doesn't border Bohemia nor Moravia (
750:
2847:
Secondly, it repeats the source's error of calling Germany "another country" when, in fact, Grätz was a German town at that time ("other parts of Germany" would be a better expression).
1182:
The phrase "served in a special trumpet-shaped glass" is also a direct lift from the source, and the rest of the sentence closely paraphrases the source. Again, this should be rewritten.
3635:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150402134706/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/w-szmelich-yeast-selection-for-the-production-of-grodzisk-beer-acta-microbiologica-polonica-1964.pdf
715:
574:
2843:
6th para: "In the late 19th century, the beer began to be exported beyond the province and into other countries, mainly Germany." Firstly, it's a very close paraphrase of the source:
32:
2539:
1989. The brewery was closed by its new owner after it had been privatized as part of Poland's transition to market economy in the 1990s. This part needs a little more research.
3638:
2740:
I can't find a link to download a PDF at the Google Books page. Could it be a regional issue? Perhaps you can download it only if your IP number geolocates to certain countries?
2664:β-amylase rest isn't mentioned in the GR source, either. I also found a document, "instrukcja postepowania technologicznego przy produkcji piwa grodziskiego" on the GR site at
2262:
Expressions like "the 1800s" are ambiguous. They should be replaced, depending on the intended meaning, by either "the 19th century" or "the first decade of the 19th century".
1820:
I don't know. I didn't upload the photo, so I decided to AGF and assume that it was correctly tagged, but I have no way of verifying that or providing additional information.
3624:
1157:
The article uses the phrase "excellent retention" copied from source to describe the head. What does this mean? Shouldn't we phrase it more colloquially and in our own words?
3485:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304042306/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/w-szmelich-o-historii-i-sposobie-wytwarzania-unikalnego-piwa-grodziskiego-pfiow-1994.pdf
3057:
3753:
3101:
2165:
864:
529:
938:
I was not able to determine whether all the images have valid copyrights. They are relevant but some of the captions could use a little more information, detailed below.
3686:
3682:
3668:
3516:
3512:
3498:
2715:
between Grodzisk and LubiĹ is not more than 50 km. Scott cites Warschauer (1893), who doesn't provide the distance. It's best to leave out the "walking the..." part.
1139:
certainly are other agents that can be used in modern production, isinglass is the only one that I know of that would have been historically used post-fermentation.
3605:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304055546/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/g-lawniczak-zapomniana-tradycja-piwa-grodziskiego-przeglad-wielkopolski-2007.pdf
3488:
2487:
If the style was renamed "Grätzer" under German rule, it would be better to be consistent about it and use the German name when writing about the German production.
3798:
519:
3349:
The article contains only two images; one is from Flickr, with a free license checked by bot; the other is PD, as it comes from CIA WFB. Both images are relevant,
2155:
854:
737:
2665:
2606:
Description, second paragraph: "Brewing and tasting notes from the 19th century and early 20th century..." The source says specifically the notes were from 1914.
2414:
replacing "Wielkopolska" with its English name, "Greater Poland". Either "Greater Poland (Wielkpolska)" or "Wielkopolska (Greater Poland)" would be fine as well.
744:
2925:"In the early 1980s, different variations of the style were created with different colors and alcohol strengths." Citation needed. You can use Szmelich (1994).
3644:
3318:
929:
The article does address the main aspects of its topic. It mostly avoids unnecessary detail, but see the issue with the sulfate-chloride ratio detailed below.
3803:
3614:
3608:
134:
3654:
495:
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3097:
1691:
That appears to be a typo. I went back through the sources and everything is pointing at the beginning of the second world war, not the first. Changed.
2132:
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307:
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2991:
No problem, we're not in a hurry. I can put this nomination on hold even for, say, two more weeks, as long as I know you will be coming back to it. â
3156:
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2845:
Pod koniec XIX w. piwo grodziskie zaczÄĹo przekraczaÄ granicÄ swojej prowincji i staĹo siÄ piwem eksportowanym do innych krajĂłw, gĹĂłwnie do Niemiec.
420:
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it's just one grain, but most beers use a mixture of light and dark grains for color and flavor. I edited the statement to remove the jargon.
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The Knoke source says 90-120 minutes, the Grodziskie Redivivus source says 120-150. I changed the range to 90-150 and left citations to both.
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/w-szmelich-yeast-selection-for-the-production-of-grodzisk-beer-acta-microbiologica-polonica-1964.pdf
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article because mashing at that temperature is a clear and unambiguous attempt to inhibit β-amylase by the brewers. Hope that explains it.
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Maybe we should set a deadline for improvements to be made before the nomination is closed as a fail? How much longer would be appropriate? â
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160201092710/http://blog.samueladams.com/longshot-american-homebrew-contest-introducing-cesar-marrons-gratzer/
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as I don't read German. This is not problematic: sources are not required to be in English, and they are properly marked for their language.
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It mat be good to add a short etymology section immediately after the lead to explain the origins of the one German and two Polish names.
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In the first sentence, change "traditional" to "historical". This will help explain why much of the article is written in the past tense.
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1787:"In 2011, the Polish Homebrewers Association formed the Commission for the Revival of the Grätzer Beer in 2011" doesn't need two dates.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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The article says that isinglass is used to clear the beer before bottling; however, the source for that sentence says more vaguely "
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is available online at the Grodziskie Redivivus project webpage, so it would be great to provide a link in the References section.
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/w-szmelich-o-historii-i-sposobie-wytwarzania-unikalnego-piwa-grodziskiego-pfiow-1994.pdf
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I thought that a piped link of the word wheat was an improvement over linking the whole "beers that are made of wheat" phrase per
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2309:"It is a unique style..." "Unique" is superfluous here; perhaps it could be changed to "It is a style that is unique to Poland".
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such as isinglass". Is isinglass still used in modern production? If something else has sometimes been used, we should say so.
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I have added the caption. Sorry I've been absent in the middle of all this, but real-world projects are consuming my time.
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The article went through some significant changes immediately after its GA nomination but has been largely stable since then.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160312094704/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/geschichte-des-graetzer-bieres-1893.pdf
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Hi, David. Thanks for looking at the article. I'll be going through this in the next couple of days and responding here.
1492:"brought in brewers from Moravia and Bohemia": too similar to the source phrase, "brought brewers from Moravia and Bohemia".
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150924082842/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/grodziskie-redivivus-raport-1-eng.pdf
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/g-lawniczak-zapomniana-tradycja-piwa-grodziskiego-przeglad-wielkopolski-2007.pdf
2808:. The local hatters' guild rules specified a barrel of Grodziskie as a fine for price undercutting (charging less than 12
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150402185206/http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/aktualnosci/2012/121023-zymurgy-novdec-2012.pdf
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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during the first reading and would now like to offer some suggestions before I move on to checking the references. â
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Similarly, it would be helpful to label the photo of the bottle by its year, to put it into context with the history.
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real life at the end of the last year. I will ping him to have him take another look at it at his convenience.
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of having four paragraphs; it has only two. So there is room to expand it to cover the other two sections better.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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3036:, thanks for all the changes. The article is almost ready to be listed as a GA. Please see my comments below. â
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1542:"the town's wells had all dried up" too closely paraphrased from source , "the city wells ... had all dried up".
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No specific issues found in this section. All sources look adequately reliable for what they're used to source.
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Excellent retention is how I would describe a long-lasting head, but I changed the phrase to "long-lasting".
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150321041823/http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/beer/water2.htm
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Production, first para: "Îą-Amylase rest" is not found in the source. If it stays, it should be wikilinked.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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No, I can only see a red button that says "GET PRINT BOOK" and "No eBook available" below the button. â
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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3585:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
3451:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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may be somewhat ambiguous; it may refer to the specific beer style or to any beer brewed in Grodzisk).
1517:"In 1603" â the listed sources disagree about the exact year, so don't state it as if it were certain.
2514:"United Breweries Grodziskie"; is this the actual name of the company? Didn't it have a Polish name?
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Same answer as above, I didn't provide that photo, and the uploader did not give that information.
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Although interesting and relevant, I am a bit worried that the whole paragraph about the water is
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http://blog.samueladams.com/longshot-american-homebrew-contest-introducing-cesar-marrons-gratzer/
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1002:. Shouldn't we link ale prominently in our article, both in the lead and the description section?
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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History, first para: the source says the OstrorĂłgs controlled the town, not the entire region.
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All the historical sources are very clear: Grätzer was never sour at any point in its history.
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No edit wars; changes during GA review were limited to corrections suggested by the reviewer.
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Third paragraph: "The carbon dioxide gas..." "Gas" seems redundant here and may be left out.
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Ok, thanks. Would it help if I put the nomination on hold to give you more time to respond? â
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Now the word "during" appeared twice in one sentence. I've changed one instance to "under".
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That might be best- I haven't had an overabundance of spare time in the past week or so.
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Ingredients, second para: please spell out and wikilink "ppm" the first time it's used.
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uniquely-prepared: again, don't use this word. It doesn't convey any useful information.
3671:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
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Great, congratulations on having written a Good Article (and an interesting one, too),
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of the customary barrel of Grodziskie they had been already receiving for a long time.
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Fifth paragraph: "In 1793, when ],..." It would be better to link more specifically to
1567:"The well became a municipal treasure and were credited" â should be "was", not "were".
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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References formatted correctly, in-line citations checked, close paraphrasing checked.
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of the source that I was able to save offline. Are you not getting that on your end?
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I changed it to the wording used in the Warschauer source, which was written in 1893.
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/geschichte-des-graetzer-bieres-1893.pdf
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stands in the way), so it's best to delete the "neighboring regions like" part.
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/grodziskie/grodziskie-redivivus-raport-1-eng.pdf
3677:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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http://www.pspd.org.pl/uploads/aktualnosci/2012/121023-zymurgy-novdec-2012.pdf
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Ok. Once again, I think those were good suggestions. I have made the edits.
1592:"In gratitude ... as a show of their gratitude" â avoid repetitious wording.
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2946:) as the owner of the last brewery in Grodzisk at the time of its closure.
2186:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
885:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
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The only outstanding issue is the infobox image caption, per GA criteria.
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It looks like someone already fixed that, because I don't see that typo.
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and not hide it in a piped link; this would also allow you to wikilink
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I have deleted the images from the article. I will resubmit the GAN.
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Same para: You can format the reference to the Polish ordinance using
1709:"as testified by its high price" â lifted without change from source .
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Did you know ... that the light, crisp, smoky, and highly carbonated
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http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/beer/water2.htm
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Several of the sources state specifically that this is a wheat
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I did not find problems with neutrality or excessive promotion.
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2596:, sorry for keeping you waiting. Some more comments below. â
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Knowledge (XXG) Did you know articles that are good articles
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Copy-right problems? That may cause an immediate failure.
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Additionally, the lead does not follow the suggestion in
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http://www.pgw.pl/en/municipalites/grodzisk-wlkp..html
486:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
373:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
268:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
3681:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
3511:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
3384:I've also reviewed the changes implemented after
3312:and other media, where possible and appropriate.
3007:Take another look at it and see what you think.
745:Category:Knowledge (XXG) requested images of food
1039:Here's a link to a picture of the "real" glass.
3667:This message was posted before February 2018.
3497:This message was posted before February 2018.
2466:again: "In 1793, when Grodzisk became part of
1263:I'm accepting the German-language sources per
48:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
3317:(images are tagged and non-free content have
1359:Reference link to the Zymurgy article added.
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3274:Language is neutral with no noticeable bias.
2909:I see you've already done that, thank you.
1995:I think this article is too over-detailed:
1245:you find more appropriate than "unique"?
166:beer was once nicknamed "Polish Champagne"?
2896:. Let me know, if you need help using it.
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205:It is of interest to the following
282:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Poland
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3581:. Please take a moment to review
3447:. Please take a moment to review
1981:That works for me. Jan.4 it is. â
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498:and see a list of open tasks.
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2012:23:21, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
958:I think you are misreading
285:Template:WikiProject Poland
158:The text of the entry was:
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3698:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3574:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3528:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3440:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3386:the previous GA nomination
2472:Second Partition of Poland
2460:Second Partition of Poland
1095:on the word "wheat" fails
1068:production of grodziskie.
598:WikiProject Food and drink
572:To edit this page, select
530:project's importance scale
483:WikiProject Food and drink
421:project's importance scale
308:project's importance scale
3789:WikiProject Beer articles
2940:Lech Browary Wielkopolski
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1109:. But I have changed it.
948:"It is a unique style" â
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2769:OK, I made that change.
926:with a paywalled source.
729:to learn how to do this.
3570:External links modified
3436:External links modified
3067:reasonably well written
510:Food and drink articles
3779:GA-Class Beer articles
3060:for what they are not)
2654:"amylase" capitalized?
767:Note: These lists are
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614:Status or below up to
195:This article is rated
135:fact from this article
3306:It is illustrated by
3256:neutral point of view
3210:broad in its coverage
751:Assessment task force
199:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
39:good article criteria
3679:regular verification
3509:regular verification
716:deletion discussions
110:Good article nominee
91:Good article nominee
3669:After February 2018
3499:After February 2018
3319:fair use rationales
2944:Kompania Piwowarska
2812:for dyeing a hat).
2728:While we're at it,
2713:The actual distance
2470:as a result of the
2184:Talk:Grodziskie/GA2
1639:De-linked Prussia.
883:Talk:Grodziskie/GA1
610:articles currently
3723:InternetArchiveBot
3674:InternetArchiveBot
3553:InternetArchiveBot
3504:InternetArchiveBot
3289:No edit wars, etc.
3128:factually accurate
1214:Deleted the word.
727:WP:Handling trivia
621:Agaricus bisporus
265:WikiProject Poland
201:content assessment
66:Article milestones
3699:
3529:
3337:suitable captions
3143:reference section
2730:Warschauer (1893)
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624:(i.e. mushroom),
606:Help bring these
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103:February 29, 2016
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3157:reliable sources
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2214:Initial comments
2128:Copyvio detector
2116:
827:Copyvio detector
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174:Current status:
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3690:
3683:have permission
3673:
3587:this simple FaQ
3572:
3557:
3552:
3520:
3513:have permission
3503:
3470:
3453:this simple FaQ
3438:
3333:appropriate use
3253:It follows the
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2178:This review is
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877:This review is
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757:in this section
690:High Importance
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84:January 5, 2016
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3155:(citations to
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2018:David Eppstein
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680:French cuisine
664:Top Importance
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608:Top Importance
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526:Low-importance
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501:Food and drink
496:the discussion
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447:Lowâimportance
444:Food and drink
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417:Mid-importance
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798:91.209.208.11
791:
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755:project ideas
752:
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257:Poland portal
247:
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194:
185:
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145:Did you know?
140:
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3693:source check
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3032:
3029:Final review
2966:
2953:
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2886:
2872:
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2837:
2827:
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2797:
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2217:
2201:
2191:
2190:
2177:
2166:Instructions
2062:
2031:
2003:
1871:
1107:WP:SEAOFBLUE
1097:WP:SUBMARINE
1091:The link to
911:
900:
890:
889:
876:
865:Instructions
795:
754:
733:
697:
693:
689:
688:Bring these
671:
667:
663:
662:Bring these
646:Ham and eggs
619:
615:
611:
607:
596:
595:
573:
525:
481:
416:
368:
303:
263:
207:WikiProjects
176:Good article
175:
161:
159:
150:
142:
108:
89:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
3098:word choice
2556:Thank you,
2354:Ingredients
2180:transcluded
2112:GA Review 2
1969:BlueMoonset
1938:BlueMoonset
1384:Rephrased.
1232:Ingredients
1189:Rephrased.
1086:Description
879:transcluded
769:transcluded
753:. List any
738:select here
706:Burger King
475:Food portal
362:Beer portal
3743:Categories
3730:Report bug
3579:Grodziskie
3560:Report bug
3445:Grodziskie
3189:plagiarism
3133:verifiable
2863:grodziskie
2388:Production
2133:Authorship
2119:GA toolbox
1863:References
1620:Reworded.
1524:Changed.
1402:Production
1093:wheat beer
832:Authorship
818:GA toolbox
163:Grodziskie
149:column on
96:Not listed
37:under the
27:Grodziskie
3713:this tool
3706:this tool
3543:this tool
3536:this tool
3473:dead link
3371:Pass/Fail
2192:Reviewer:
2156:Templates
2147:Reviewing
1716:Changed.
1549:Changed.
1474:Changed.
960:WP:WEASEL
950:WP:WEASEL
922:overused.
891:Reviewer:
855:Templates
846:Reviewing
811:GA Review
723:WP:Trivia
650:Soy sauce
618:status:
139:Main Page
3719:Cheers.â
3549:Cheers.â
3119:checked.
2904:Not done
2810:groschen
2661:optional
2330:Not done
2205:contribs
2161:Criteria
983:MOS:LEAD
904:contribs
860:Criteria
792:Sourness
732:Add the
700:status:
674:status:
197:GA-class
51:reassess
3583:my edit
3477:tag to
3449:my edit
3424:Kpalion
3420:Neil916
3405:Neil916
3390:Kpalion
3365:Overall
3233:focused
3185:copyvio
3102:fiction
3038:Kpalion
3034:Neil916
3009:Neil916
2993:Kpalion
2979:Neil916
2911:Neil916
2806:Wschowa
2771:Neil916
2762:Kpalion
2748:Neil916
2670:Neil916
2598:Kpalion
2594:Neil916
2579:Kpalion
2562:Neil916
2558:Kpalion
2468:Prussia
2464:Prussia
2429:Silesia
2408:History
2338:Neil916
2247:product
2236:Overall
2228:Kpalion
2220:Neil916
2195:Kpalion
2096:Neil916
2066:Neil916
1934:Neil916
1917:Neil916
1889:Neil916
1847:Neil916
1822:Neil916
1796:Neil916
1771:Neil916
1744:Neil916
1718:Neil916
1693:Neil916
1668:Neil916
1641:Neil916
1622:Neil916
1601:Neil916
1576:Neil916
1551:Neil916
1526:Neil916
1501:Neil916
1476:Neil916
1462:History
1446:Neil916
1420:Neil916
1386:Neil916
1361:Neil916
1336:Neil916
1306:Neil916
1280:Neil916
1247:Neil916
1216:Neil916
1191:Neil916
1166:Neil916
1141:Neil916
1129:finings
1111:Neil916
1070:Neil916
1044:Neil916
1015:Neil916
964:Neil916
555:history
528:on the
419:on the
379:Brewery
306:on the
141:in the
74:Process
3469:Added
3309:images
3283:stable
3281:It is
3258:policy
3208:It is
3126:It is
3104:, and
3094:layout
3065:It is
3050:review
2828:on top
2474:,..."
2242:final
1265:WP:AGF
658:Yogurt
381:, and
279:Poland
270:Poland
226:Poland
203:scale.
115:Listed
77:Result
3335:with
3106:lists
3052:(see
2182:from
2036:-blue
2008:-blue
1032:beer?
881:from
702:Apple
684:Sugar
654:Sushi
638:Drink
634:Curry
630:Bread
565:purge
560:watch
492:drink
3422:! â
3409:Talk
3351:but
3187:and
3130:and
3090:lead
3088:for
3058:here
3054:here
3013:Talk
2983:Talk
2967:Done
2954:Done
2933:Done
2915:Talk
2887:Done
2873:Done
2855:Done
2838:Done
2820:Done
2798:Done
2775:Talk
2752:Talk
2723:Done
2705:Done
2692:Done
2674:Talk
2641:Done
2627:Done
2614:Done
2566:Talk
2547:Done
2522:Done
2509:Done
2495:Done
2482:Done
2453:Done
2439:Done
2422:Done
2401:Done
2381:Done
2368:Done
2342:Talk
2317:Done
2304:Done
2291:Lead
2284:Done
2270:Done
2257:Done
2244:beer
2199:talk
2100:Talk
2086:talk
2070:Talk
2022:talk
1987:talk
1973:talk
1956:talk
1942:talk
1921:Talk
1907:talk
1893:Talk
1878:talk
1851:Talk
1826:Talk
1800:Talk
1775:Talk
1748:Talk
1722:Talk
1697:Talk
1672:Talk
1645:Talk
1626:Talk
1605:Talk
1599:Ok.
1580:Talk
1574:Ok.
1555:Talk
1530:Talk
1505:Talk
1480:Talk
1450:Talk
1424:Talk
1390:Talk
1365:Talk
1340:Talk
1310:Talk
1284:Talk
1251:Talk
1220:Talk
1195:Talk
1170:Talk
1145:Talk
1115:Talk
1074:Talk
1048:Talk
1019:Talk
968:Talk
943:Lead
898:talk
802:talk
725:and
710:Fish
676:Beer
642:Food
626:Beef
575:here
550:edit
490:and
488:food
392:Beer
375:Beer
331:Beer
71:Date
3687:RfC
3657:to
3647:to
3637:to
3627:to
3617:to
3607:to
3597:to
3517:RfC
3487:to
3463:to
3086:MoS
2592:Hi
2249:".
2218:Hi
2033:333
2005:333
1813:is?
1000:ale
520:Low
411:Mid
383:Pub
298:Low
3745::
3700:.
3695:}}
3691:{{
3530:.
3525:}}
3521:{{
3475:}}
3471:{{
3411:)
3373::
3367::
3341::
3329:b
3323::
3315:a
3291::
3285:.
3266::
3260:.
3237::
3229:b
3223::
3215:a
3212:.
3193::
3181:d
3175::
3171:OR
3167:c
3161::
3153:b
3147::
3139:a
3136:.
3110::
3100:,
3096:,
3092:,
3082:b
3076::
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708:,
704:,
698:FA
694:GA
682:,
678:,
672:FA
668:GA
656:,
652:,
648:,
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640:,
636:,
632:,
628:,
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602::
377:,
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209::
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56:.
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